Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[GoodGrief741]

View attachment 168053View attachment 168054View attachment 168055

-says a random person told him this info
-says he can name the character, but is afraid of backlash.
-says his sources have different info about SE, says Nintendo is feeding leakers false flags. He doesn't want to say the name as he wouldnt want to cost them their jobs. Still says it's an SE Rep, since every info Ian related to SE.
-Says they don't take Geno as seriously, even though there he has no proof.
>Every leak has the potential to cost someone their job, hasn't stopped you before.
> the SE rep could not even exist, and all this info about SE Rep could just all be false flags.
>the possibility of Incenroar and Ken being false flags never occurred to him?
>Did he seriously put all his faith into one random individual that has a 10% chance of being right?
>Leakers might not know everything, but "SE Rep" shouldn't have even been said if the answers are so drastically diverse.

This scenario is about as much filled with holes as a nice chunk of Swiss cheese.

He’s trying to cover his tracks. There are so many ‘leakers’ out there that, statistically, many would have gotten the character right. So people would have been getting fired left and right to make an example. Even disregarding the fact that we would have heard about mass unjustified firings, that would provide the perfect cover for Vergeben to leak whatever he wants (unless the SE character is, like, a random NPC from a random game, to the point where it would be obvious if someone were to leak them).

Is that ************ really saying he hadn’t noticed he only got unique newcomers leaked to him except for Ken? Either he’s the dumbest ****** ever or he’s playing idiot, one way or the other this dude is dead to me.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I'm skeptical the claim that Squeenix people get fired willy-nilly for things because it's actually pretty hard to fire people in Japan. But IF the company can prove someone violated their nondisclosure agreement that probably is grounds to fire them. So in that sense it's plausible that they would try to prevent leaks by feeding different info to everyone who's not involved.

Regardless I think it's pretty clear Verge's well has run totally dry after Ken and maybe Incineroar, if you believe that. I think Sakurai still has an ace or two up his sleeve.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

View attachment 168053View attachment 168054View attachment 168055

-says a random person told him this info
-says he can name the character, but is afraid of backlash.
-says his sources have different info about SE, says Nintendo is feeding leakers false flags. He doesn't want to say the name as he wouldnt want to cost them their jobs. Still says it's an SE Rep, since every info Ian related to SE.
-Says they don't take Geno as seriously, even though there he has no proof.
>Every leak has the potential to cost someone their job, hasn't stopped you before.
> the SE rep could not even exist, and all this info about SE Rep could just all be false flags.
>the possibility of Incenroar and Ken being false flags never occurred to him?
>Did he seriously put all his faith into one random individual that has a 10% chance of being right?
>Leakers might not know everything, but "SE Rep" shouldn't have even been said if the answers are so drastically diverse.

This scenario is about as much filled with holes as a nice chunk of Swiss cheese.

This sort of thing is why regardless of how correct he could be, I still don't love Vergeben. He's always just had way too many outs for any false information, and he's handled the Pokemon and Square Enix portions of his leak pretty horrendously. It's less talked about nowadays, but with the Pokemon reveal he strung people along for a while before he finally settled on not Decidueye, Lycanrock, or Mimikyu (Which was all around not great) and then only confirmed Incineroar forever later despite the general tone being if not them, then certainly Incineroar from the community til he finally settled on saying Incineroar.

And the Square Enix character has been all over the place. First it was he didn't want to be wrong and held accountable for the possibility, then it was saying who would get him in trouble. Things just started to get increasingly painful for everyone involved.

He seems very hesitant to commit to things with regards to information, more so than a person who supposedly knows insiders should be. Like I get everything he is saying could be true about multiple sources with a need to protect them, but generally speaking he hasn't had this same crazy song and dance with other games.

Say what you will about Gematsu, but that leak was as straight forward as they come. Here is the information, done. Verge seems to be trying to be this active community member, yet he's reluctant to commit or let people what he knows. That reluctance has pretty much soured him in my eyes regardless of if he is right or not. He's not been straightforward or forthcoming with information. Half his confirmations involved saying "trash it" to other leaks because a certain character wasn't there. I get that a person leaking information isn't held to a standard of professionalism, but he's been very unprofessional and internet fame driven about the whole ordeal.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm skeptical the claim that Squeenix people get fired willy-nilly for things because it's actually pretty hard to fire people in Japan. But IF the company can prove someone violated their nondisclosure agreement that probably is grounds to fire them. So in that sense it's plausible that they would try to prevent leaks by feeding different info to everyone who's not involved.

Regardless I think it's pretty clear Verge's well has run totally dry after Ken and maybe Incineroar, if you believe that. I think Sakurai still has an ace or two up his sleeve.

It’s not unlikely for a company to fire employees for violating NDAs, but if Square Enix are really as trigger happy as Vergeben claims - firing people to make examples and just due to alleged leaks on the internet, which are probably just good guesses - there would have definitely been some kind of report about it.

 

[N3ON]

If Vergeben would shut his mouth and only pop up when he had something sufficiently vetted and ready to leak, his reputation would be all the better for it.

He's too proud for his profession as a loose-lipped weasel and it gets him in the weeds.

 

[StormC]

I don't think Vergeben realized what he was signing up for by being "the" Smash leaker.

This does add a wrinkle to things though... he's definitely backpedaling which makes me wonder why he's suddenly less confident than before.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Good luck in the poll! I voted for Isaac even though I'm more of a Banjo fan. everyone knows Banjo is wanted. think Isaac could use a little more love.
heres to hoping all 3 of us can make it into ultimate!

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

I've said my bit about Vergeben in other places on this site so I'll just quote myself from the Shantae and Ashley threads.

I'm still not fully trusting Vergeben either. Which is weird for me because at this point I probably should trust him already with his correct predictions, but something about him just feels off to me.

I feel like he definitely got a hold of some legit info, but not nearly as much as he claims. A lot of his predictions do feel like the small smattering of legit stuff combined with some logical deduction and very good cold reading. The big thing that tipped me off is how he plays games with just who exactly is gonna be the 7th Gen Pokemon rep. From my experience anytime somebody starts playing games with their audience it's usually a way to cover up a blind spot with bull**** to make their way through when they don't have anything real on hand.

Like, maybe he's right and he does have multiple sources, but that also sounds like a convenient way to give him an out for anytime he gets it wrong or doesn't guess a big surprise like K. Rool. "Oh don't worry it's just that one source that was bad honest!"

Him casting a broad but unspecific net such as saying "a" Square Enix character is coming without naming names also tips me off. Maybe he's telling the truth and he really doesn't know, or maybe he's just making the bet that, seeing how Cloud is in the game, Square is on board with another rep so that if anybody, whether it be Terra Branford or Geno, gets in he can go "See, told ya!" without making any specific claims, a classic cold reading trick.

I don't know, if he really does guess something that was totally left field again then maybe my trust will grow, but the fact that he could be using a good number of tricks scam artists use leaves a lingering doubt that I just can't shake.

Anyways, to add my two cents on the whole Vergeben leaks situation, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned but hear me out for a bit. This is just me theorizing so I might be completely wrong but this is what I'm thinking based on what we know.

Putting my own doubts about his credibility aside and assuming he's 100% legit with his info, I'd still say that I have a feeling that he's gonna be smoked out soon if he hasn't already, or he's gonna go dark. Loz18 is another case where he had some very legitimate info but was later smoked out. With Sakurai's legendary hatred of leaks it makes sense that he would take every precaution available and compartmentalize his work. Whenever leaks of this nature happen I'd wouldn't put my bet on any of the development team actually being the leakers, they have their whole careers on the line if they break NDA and with no obvious financial or notoriety benefit from it, no one would risk it. I'd say that 99% of legit leaks come from people like janitors, coffee boys, minor assistants, etc, people that are below notice but can get close enough to snap a quick picture or see a juicy bit of the game for a quick second which is then reported to guys like Vergeben that compile and cross-reference them before anonymously sharing them online.

The problem with this is that Treehouse is constantly surveying every bit of relevant Nintendo info online and will catch on which leaks are legit or just ****posting. This will be reported back to Sakurai and he'll know exactly what department worked on what part got successfully leaked and suddenly security gets locked down and no one is beneath suspicion anymore. Once that happens I'd say that any chance of getting new info from that source goes down to nil.

Trying to piece together a timeline of events, it seems that Loz18 definitely got a hold of some good info, but once Sakurai's team figured out which department leaked what, he was fed purposely wrong info and got smoked out, probably after he got too bold and carelessly thought he could rely on the same sources without consequence. Vergeben seems to be far more careful and avoided it for now, but after Castlevania and Isabelle, it's inevitable that Treehouse is reporting all of this to Nintendo and they're working on figuring out what department(s) specifically leaked what info (if they haven't figured it out already). Once this happens only one of two things are gonna happen, either Vergeben is gonna get fed wrong info and get smoked out, or if he's as meticulous and careful as I think he is, he'll stop rolling the dice and go dark, getting only tiny amounts of info in a dripfeed if any at all.

My immediate gut instinct told me not to trust him, and I'm starting to feel just a little bit vindicated now that he's been acting more sketchy into the endgame.

So anyways, just wanted to pop in and say that you guys are probably the nicest sub-community on Smashboards, and I genuinely hope that Isaac makes it in eventually whether it be base or DLC. I've actually been considering throwing my hat in and becoming a supporter. Not because I know anything about the games yet I still have to do research, but, well, it's really dumb and sentimental and y'all can make fun of me if you want it's cool, but my cousin, who's one of the best men I've ever known, and his wife are gonna have their first child and after they found out he was gonna be a boy they decided to name him Isaac. It has literally nothing to do with Golden Sun at all Isaac is just a fairly common name but it weirdly makes me want to see Isaac in Smash, ya know? Dumb sentimental reasons with no real grounding, I'm aware, but I still think it'd be cool to see.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

View attachment 168053View attachment 168054View attachment 168055

-says a random person told him this info
-says he can name the character, but is afraid of backlash.
-says his sources have different info about SE, says Nintendo is feeding leakers false flags. He doesn't want to say the name as he wouldnt want to cost them their jobs. Still says it's an SE Rep, since every info Ian related to SE.
-Says they don't take Geno as seriously, even though there he has no proof.
>Every leak has the potential to cost someone their job, hasn't stopped you before.
> the SE rep could not even exist, and all this info about SE Rep could just all be false flags.
>the possibility of Incenroar and Ken being false flags never occurred to him?
>Did he seriously put all his faith into one random individual that has a 10% chance of being right?
>Leakers might not know everything, but "SE Rep" shouldn't have even been said if the answers are so drastically diverse.

This scenario is about as much filled with holes as a nice chunk of Swiss cheese.

Honestly this all sounds like confused gibberish.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Honestly this all sounds like confused gibberish.

That's verg's MO. He uses double speak and hides behind 'Sources' so that if his leaks don't come true he can fall back on 'my sources were bad' He didn't take a position on Isabelle being an echo and barely took one on Ken being an echo.

 

[Mehdow]

All the "obviously I can't say anything about this because jobs will be lost if so" but then saying stuff like "yeah there's Incinerorar and Ken, and he's an echo, 500% sure" without taking care of the job of his "sources" just because they're not own by Square Enix doesn't make any sense to me.

I won't say I can't believe Incineroar and Ken or even the Square Enix rep are real because they might be, but I'll not give him credit if so because all this "leaks" were around the web some time before his claims, he's just giving himself credit.

I don't think he's a bad guy but at the same time I think he's trying to stuck people in a loop of "I know things you don't - I can't share it but maybe someday I'll do it, I don't know I don't know..." that doesn't serve his reputation well.

 

[Q-Long]

If added to Smash, Isaac would be one of the strongest characters canonically. Because of the short crazy manipulation of matter adepts can do. Shifting the earths plates, making things subzero temperatures instantaenously, making mini nova, producing violent storms, summoning hydrogen bombs essentially, etc. Of course it seems like these powerful bursts of energy only last for a a couple of seconds.

This would maybe put him aside Ness level canonically, because they both do the same things. In Isaac's case he does draw from Djinn. So maybe Ness tops out a bit. Isaac would certainly be up there with Ness and Kirby.

He would be more powerful than Pit because while they both rely on deities, Isaac has a wider array of moves without the help of deities.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Still just something of 2 months left and Verg will more or less disappear from the minds of the whole community, anyway.

Until then I'm just gonna watch over how things turn out depending on what we have "in hand". But again, Verg's overall moley nature with his "leaking", I've perceived as pretty problematic to the speculation community as a whole, for a long time now.

 

[Q-Long]

Still just something of 2 months left and Verg will more or less disappear from the minds of the whole community, anyway.

Until then I'm just gonna watch over how things turn out depending on what we have "in hand". But again, Verg's overall moley nature with his "leaking", I've perceived pretty long as pretty problematic to the speculation community as a whole for a long time.

I think it's a Gematsu situation where some of his sources are partially right

Also didnt recognize you there valk, nice pfp lol

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Honestly if what he says is true it kills the hype like I'd have nothing else to look forward to other then the amazing game itself unless the SQ Rep is like geno or a dragon quest rep

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

If added to Smash, Isaac would be one of the strongest characters canonically. Because of the short crazy manipulation of matter adepts can do. Shifting the earths plates, making things subzero temperatures instantaenously, making mini nova, producing violent storms, summoning hydrogen bombs essentially, etc. Of course it seems like these powerful bursts of energy only last for a a couple of seconds.

This would maybe put him aside Ness level canonically, because they both do the same things. In Isaac's case he does draw from Djinn. So maybe Ness tops out a bit. Isaac would certainly be up there with Ness and Kirby.

He would be more powerful than Pit because while they both rely on deities, Isaac has a wider array of moves without the help of deities.

Technically in game, Ness can't use Fire, Thunder, PSI Magnet, or PK Starstorm at all. the only Special move he has that is his own would be PSI / PK Flash. His strongest attack would be PK Rockin but for some reason it was never incorporated into his moveset. Works similarly to PK Starstorm but a bit different.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Still just something of 2 months left and Verg will more or less disappear from the minds of the whole community, anyway.

Until then I'm just gonna watch over how things turn out depending on what we have "in hand". But again, Verg's overall moley nature with his "leaking", I've perceived pretty long as pretty problematic to the speculation community as a whole for a long time.

I think it's a Gematsu situation where some of his sources are partially right

Also didnt recognize you there valk, nice pfp lol

Regardless, he's almost single-handedly responsible for mostly killing off talks of any character possibilities in the base beyond Red shotokan and Tony the Tiger (which bothers me, since I'm an Incineroar fan myself).

I guarantee you that if he ever "leaked" anything about Spirits and claimed that it was a story-less adventure mode like Melee, people wouldn't look forward to imagining an SSE-esque scenario and drop the subject.

 

[Confirmation]

One hour left to vote. Make sure to do so if you haven't yet!

https://smashpoll.uk/874278

 

[TappyBat]

we're gonna die

 

[Confirmation]

we're gonna die

Eh, as long as we finish strong I'll be satisfied. Even if we can get a close second to a juggernaut like Banjo it'll be pretty good for us.

 

[Undella2]

we're gonna die

Have some confidence!

 

[Q-Long]

we're gonna die

Before we die I just have to tell you I used your golden sun cartridge to brush my teeth

 

[TappyBat]

Before we die I just have to tell you I used your golden sun cartridge to brush my teeth

but that thing's been lost for at least a decade. in an entirely different state!

 

[?!?!?!]

Placing my bets now, we're going to lose 57.4% to 42.6%

That's how I think it'll be, but I still have some faith

 

[Q-Long]

but that thing's been lost for at least a decade. in an entirely different state!

Yeah I stole it, I used Catch

 

[Shin F.]

Technically in game, Ness can't use Fire, Thunder, PSI Magnet, or PK Starstorm at all. the only Special move he has that is his own would be PSI / PK Flash. His strongest attack would be PK Rockin but for some reason it was never incorporated into his moveset. Works similarly to PK Starstorm but a bit different.

A lot of Ness' OPness from the canon game comes from powerscaling him to Giygas. He can't defeat Giygas after all is said and done, but surviving an extended battle against a being that destroyed the entire universe makes him pretty dang tough, lol

 

[Frosty Pops]

Anybody notice that we haven't gotten our Sakurai dose of retro character yet? Isaac and Geno comfirmed!!!

Behold my main. Is it bad that so far I am most hyped for an echo? Bet you can't guess who!

 

[Frosty Pops]

we're gonna die

Even if we do...we still won 1st party character!!!

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Placing my bets now, we're going to lose 57.4% to 42.6%

That's how I think it'll be, but I still have some faith

I honestly think it will be closer, like 52/48

 

[Malkior7]

it will certainly be close if I recal right their first bout was only like a 200 vote difference

 

[Billybae10K]

If we can at least be in the 40% range against Banjo, I think I'll be satisfied, though I imagine we're going to get crushed. So yeah, we got demolished with about 1500 votes between us and Banjo!

Still second place is awesome!

 

[Malkior7]

Hey I'll take second place. What was the vote difference?

 

[?!?!?!]

I'll take second any day of the week

And also we're 1st for 1st party characters so that's huge

 

[Billybae10K]

Hey I'll take second place. What was the vote difference?

1,494 votes between them. So kinda brutal.

 

[Delta64]

Anybody notice that we haven't gotten our Sakurai dose of retro character yet? Isaac and Geno comfirmed!!!

Behold my main. Is it bad that so far I am most hyped for an echo? Bet you can't guess who!

If we take a look at all the new characters and organize them in order of their first appearance we have:
August 6, 1986 (Metroid), September 26, 1986 (Castlevania),
April 21, 1989 (Super Mario Land), October 29, 1993 (Castlevania: Rondo of Blood),
November 21, 1994 (Donkey Kong Country), November 17, 2002 (Metroid Prime),
April 19, 2012 (Fire Emblem Awakening), November 8, 2012 (Animal Crossing: New Leaf), May 28, 2015 (Splatoon).
Edited: to hopefully be more concise. Also Isaac would be August 1, 2001 (Golden Sun)

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Hey I'll take second place. What was the vote difference?

5935 - 57.2%
Banjo

4441 - 42.8%
Isaac

1,494 votes between them. So kinda brutal.

According to the statistics, Banjo was the undisputed most botted character. I find it hard to believe they could catch every single bot vote, so It's probably a little closer, but Banjo probably still would have won.

 

[?!?!?!]

Placing my bets now, we're going to lose 57.4% to 42.6%

That's how I think it'll be, but I still have some faith

Holy **** I was close, actual results were 57.2% to 42.8%

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I expected to lose against Banjo. -3-

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

The only thing that could take Isaac down was a third party nostalgic juggernaut. Yeah, I’m quite OK with this.

Congrats Banjo fans!

That being said though, this little tourney has taught us something. Isaac is more popular than we thought.

 

[SonicLink125]

We may have lost (not surprising to me) but we have the most votes of everyone:
Isaac - 27,089
Banjo - 17,052
Geno - 13,702

Wow!!!