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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

SchAlternate

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SchAlternate
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Its like I said before. When the next "impossible" or "dumb" thing makes it in Smash, people will ridicule the next popular thing in line. Because its not "their unique character".
Before Brawl, it was Sonic.

Before Smash 4, it was Mewtwo

Before E3, it was Ridley.

Before the Direct, it was K. Rool.

And now, it's (apparently) Isaac.

People have been so used to making the overall most popular character request at the given time a hate sink, that whenever it's taken away (i.e., made playable) they'll replace it with the next most popular character. A desperate, cyclical desire to fill a void that they've grown accustomed to.
 

Huanchi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
122
It seems you are missing the point. I'm just going to let this go because it's not really worth arguing why opinions aren't more important than facts.
i totally understand your point. You think that because Ridley is in the game , he cant be too big = a fact. I think he is in the game but still too big (And I never said that he shoudlnt be in couse he is too big. I am not one of those guys, maybe you assumed that :) ). That are different opinions based on the fact that he is in the game. You like his size. I dont. Simple as it can be :)
 
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Delta64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
373
Before Brawl, it was Sonic.

Before Smash 4, it was Mewtwo

Before E3, it was Ridley.

Before the Direct, it was K. Rool.

And now, it's (apparently) Isaac.

People have been so used to making the overall most popular character request at the given time a hate sink, that whenever it's taken away (i.e., made playable) they'll replace it with the next most popular character. A desperate, cyclical desire to fill a void that they've grown accustomed to.
I also recall a time when there was a lot of hate toward the idea of miis being playable.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
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The Western side of Pop Star.
That comment of wanted relevant characters like BDD and Shantae hurt me. Not that the characters are bad, but it shows how much of an impact SSB4 had on speculation.
The saddest part about 4 speculation is me earnestly believing some people's wants (Lip, Geno, etc) would genuinely make it in, only for none of that to matter by the final DLC reveal.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
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I agree, GS is a bit text heavy, however, I enjoyed it. Felt like a real story to me.

Idk, I guess I got somewhat of a stupid connection to it.

Growing up I had Dyslexia and I could not read for ****. GS helped me a lot with my reading skills due to all the text and all the NPC you could talk to
I feel you. I first played Pokemon before I could read fluently, and it helped a lot.
 

Organization XIII

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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i totally understand your point. You think that because Ridley is in the game , he cant be too big = a fact. I think he is in the game but still too big (And I never said that he shoudlnt be in couse he is too big. I am not one of those guys, maybe you assumed that :) ). That are different opinions based on the fact that he is in the game. You like his size. I dont. Simple as it can be :)
No the point is he can't be too big for the game. Clearly Sakurai has shown size can be limiting factor for inclusion and now that's he's been shrunken down his height meets acceptable parameters. He may be too big for your personal tastes but that doesn't change he isn't too big for the game. That is an immutable fact. Whether he meets your standards doesn't matter it's not about opinions.
 

Metocles

Smash Journeyman
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Pennsylvania
What do you all think of Golden Sun while we are at it?

I do see that its mediocre RPG is thrown around sometimes.

My favorite parts are battle system, sound track, and world setting.

With something like Final Fantasy 7, its a great game, but the battle animations really slowed down the gameplay. Golden Sun is super fast paced because it gives you the option to speed up or skip battle animations. Its also basic and easy to pick up but the djinn system adds just enough variety and depth.

The sound track is great of course, motoi sakuraba is a great composer. I would love a melody of his works on the Golden Sun stage, from Tales of to Dark Souls...

The setting/world building is probably my favorite part. All the different psyenergy and cultures that parallel real ones made me interested in maps and history as a kid and introduced me to a lot of vocabulary. Its the only RPG where I felt like I explored the earth's ancient places instead of a mishmash of either European or Asian places.

---
Graphically it hasn't aged well is the only complaint I can think of. And the story doesn't really have any twists and turns.

The common complaint is that its safe, that there's not a lot of innovation. But that's what makes it great. Its vanilla, but really good vanilla. Makes it stand out on the GBA which was filled to the brim with more unique style JRPGs.
The Golden Sun series to me is a flawed masterpiece. Golden Sun isn't even my favorite RPG, believe it or not and I don't think it's the best RPG of all time either. However, it has all of the elements required and even more to be a greater sum than its parts.

Many RPGs attempt to be immersive, but come short. Golden Sun does it seemingly without breathing. The world and the setting have an intangible quality that intermixes itself with all of the game mechanics. The reason it feels so immersive is because everything you see and everything you do plays into the lore and head canon to the entire game. From the very first screens, you're introduced to psynergy and alchemy. Then you use them to solve puzzles, to battle, to interact with the world in general. Then you find out that it also matters greatly to the journey you go on and the objectives you have to complete. The game is all about staging from smaller to larger chunks for the character to consume and take in, but it also does it at a rate that is not too slow like other RPGs.

A fantastic example is a comparison with Suikoden V, if anyone else has ever played it. I consider it to be better than Golden Sun, but it actually doesn't do as well of a job at pacing. The beginning of the game and the story take a long time to get going and many players actually feel bored before they ever get into the meat. Golden Sun never suffered with that.

Yes, the dialogue in GS is long-winded. Yes, the game can be a little too easy at times. Yes, the story is really basic. I can acquiesce to a lot of the common complaints that the game gets bashed for.

At the same time, it's all forgivable to me and not due to nostalgia. I'm actually replaying the games now and it holds a lot of its merits still. There are too many elements that are unique just to this series that other RPGs could only hope to achieve, and I don't say that lightly.

A basic story doesn't even feel like an argument if it's done well. If it was more convoluted, would people be complaining that it's convoluted? The Lord of the Rings also has a basic story. Are people bashing that for having a basic story? What about half of the Final Fantasy library?

The main reason people are so dedicated to this franchise is that the developers really made a mistake not following through with their momentum. There is insane amount of potential here, rivaling any game I've played to date. The concepts could be expounded and fleshed out to no end. I mean, seriously imagine a Golden Sun game that got the treatment that some series like Fire Emblem, Xenoblade and the Legend of Zelda do. All of them now have games that have done exactly that: made a more vibrant and realized system than their origins had originally conceptualized. Golden Sun was always lightning in a bottle that few people see and fewer people appreciate.
 

SebasSancy

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I feel old when people call characters like King K Rool "old". I grew up playing the DKC trilogy on the NES when I was like 6-7 yo :(
 

isaac3000

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Jul 14, 2014
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Germany
FINALLY!!!!!! I TRIED TO CATCH UP SINCE PAGE 217!!! I DID IT!!!

But seriously, 10 pages in 1 day? This is crazy!!!

I wanted to say, back in page 217-219, people were talking about the lost Venus clan, my headcanon is the egyptian statue in Suhalla desert is a remnant of the long lost Venus Clan (which could be egyptian based, how cool would that be?).

Amazing how this thread evolved!
 

SchAlternate

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I feel old when people call characters like King K Rool "old". I grew up playing the DKC trilogy on the NES when I was like 6-7 yo :(
You mean the bootlegged versions?


Sorry to see you got into the series via these, but glad you got into it nonetheless!

(lol/jk, i know you made a typo)
 

Metocles

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FINALLY!!!!!! I TRIED TO CATCH UP SINCE PAGE 217!!! I DID IT!!!

But seriously, 10 pages in 1 day? This is crazy!!!

I wanted to say, back in page 217-219, people were talking about the lost Venus clan, my headcanon is the egyptian statue in Suhalla desert is a remnant of the long lost Venus Clan (which could be egyptian based, how cool would that be?).

Amazing how this thread evolved!
Well... usually the first fully animated summon you see is Ramses, who was an Egyptian Pharaoh and it's also a Venus summon. You could be onto something here.
 

tveye

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Missouri
Believe it or not, reading minds is what got me into the GS series. I read about the feature in a magazine and was like “I need this game.”

I love the part in the first Golden Sun where you see two monks meditating. If you read the monk’s mind on the right, he mentions that he senses impure thoughts from the monk next to him. If you read the mind of the monk on the left, he says “I’m hungry.”
I love that little joke.
 

Confirmation

Smash Ace
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Aug 29, 2018
Messages
648
It's not that bad, Isaac whit Skull Kid are the 2 most expected newcomer, yet he said tha SK was a boss so that the fans would not be too disapointed. Here he is trying to get why Isaac is so popular, but no word on: he's not in the game.

It's good stuff.
It really says a lot that the big name leakers of the moment, legit or not, are taking a keen interest in Isaac.
 

StormC

Smash Hero
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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,222
how would you say it ruined it I wasn't around for that just curious
During Brawl, the sky was the limit. People would talk about just any character, no matter how likely or unlikely. It was fun and exciting.

Smash 4? When it became obvious relevance > all, it became a game of “who predicts Nintendo’s marketing pattern is the most correct.” Popular characters were looked down upon if they didn’t fit into Nintendo’s bottom line that year. It became about guesses and predictions, not discussing the merits of individual characters.

K. Rool was a splash of cold water to a lot of these people, but one look at ResetERA will inform you this mindset very much still exists.
 
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XenoWarriorX

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Aug 11, 2018
Messages
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Generic anime sword character, offers nothing new, from a dead obscure franchise. Fan base needs to stop.

I don't even want to get into the flaws with that statement.

I think Shovel Knight needs to be in Smash the most.
Shovel Knight is in smash....as an AT.

sounds like someone needs to STOP, as he put it.

Steve would be great too.

O O F.

Geno has also become a huge icon in the gaming industry lately as well.

The **** is he talking about? He's about as iconic as Isaac, since he's been in only 2 games so far. Cloud is iconic. (No offesnse to Geno fans.)

Personal opinions. Don't be mad. No hate.

Sounds like he's trying to save face for obviously debunked statements.
 

Flynn.Scifo

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Are these peeps on Gamefaqs for real ?

One thing is certain, they pee their pants in fear because they know the inevitable, Isaac will join Smash.
 

alguidrag

Smash Ace
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Ylisse
Generic anime sword character, offers nothing new, from a dead obscure franchise. Fan base needs to stop.

I don't even want to get into the flaws with that statement.

Steve would be great too.

O O F.
I think this is funny because one friend of mine don't want Isaac because he have a sword, but wanted Steve from Minecraft and I said
"Man, if Steve get in smash HE WILL USE A SWORD"
he stopped some seconds and said
"I don't want Steve anymore"
 

Organization XIII

Smash Champion
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Is it really worth digging into every corner of the internet to find out who doesn't want Isaac? Not everyone needs to love him like we do.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
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Jun 18, 2018
Messages
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What?!? Golden Sun was never big?!? This guy sounds like a complete troll at this point.
Excerpt from Wikipedia:
The game was highly praised by critics; IGN's Craig Harris said that Golden Sun could "arguably be one of the best 2D-based Japanese RPGs created for any system." The game was also commercially successful, having sold more than one million copies in Japan and the United States, spawning a series that eventually included three games and appearances in other media.
Yeah, whoever says Golden Sun was never big is full of ****.
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Is it really worth digging into every corner of the internet to find out who doesn't want Isaac? Not everyone needs to love him like we do.
Hey, i'm not the one sharing this ****. I'm just critiquing the crap people say when people present me with the opportunity.


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76964993

I saw this leak

also "Spiky-haired RPG Guy from the GameBoy Advanced" I just loved this description for Isaac XD
Man, how a Target employee is able to get info THIS easily is beyond me.

No one would ever spill the beans THIS easily.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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During Brawl, the sky was the limit. People would talk about just any character, no matter how likely or unlikely. It was fun and exciting.

Smash 4? When it became obvious relevance > all, it became a game of “who predicts Nintendo’s marketing pattern is the most correct.” Popular characters were looked down upon if they didn’t fit into Nintendo’s bottom line that year. It became about guesses and predictions, not discussing the merits of individual characters.

K. Rool was a splash of cold water to a lot of these people, but one look at ResetERA will inform you this mindset very much exists.
for me, I've only wanted old characters so I'm happy this is the chance for some characters because I'm tired of reps that no one was begging for 4 was a big disappointment for me because it ended on a sour note with Corrin,Cloud,Bayo I could see why Cloud was here but i just didn't get corrin and i was pretty mad about the whole she one thing me and my friend called bull on that
 

cybersai

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I'd say Geno and Isaac are on equal ground for most requested now.

Skull Kid just shot up recently due to recent rumors.
 

StormC

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for me, I've only wanted old characters so I'm happy this is the chance for some characters because I'm tired of reps that no one was begging for 4 was a big disappointment for me because it ended on a sour note with Corrin,Cloud,Bayo I could see why Cloud was here but i just didn't get corrin and i was pretty mad about the whole she one thing me and my friend called bull on that
I was actually really excited about Cloud, at least in part since he was the first newcomer since Mega Man I felt hyped for (I liked Palutena and wanted her in but felt she was inevitable).

That actually illustrates though how mediocre the Nintendo newcomers were in Smash 4 though. Just compare it to :ultridley::ultkrool::ultinkling:
 

ZelDan

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Geno has also become a huge icon in the gaming industry lately as well.

The **** is he talking about? He's about as iconic as Isaac, since he's been in only 2 games so far. Cloud is iconic. (No offesnse to Geno fans.)
I love SMRPG and want Geno in Smash, but there's no way in hell Geno is a "huge gaming icon" LOL.
 

NoOtherPersona

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I was actually really excited about Cloud, at least in part since he was the first newcomer since Mega Man I felt hyped for (I liked Palutena and wanted her in but felt she was inevitable).

That actually illustrates though how mediocre the Nintendo newcomers were in Smash 4 though. Just compare it to :ultridley::ultkrool::ultinkling:
honestly, if 4 kept going I think we would have gotten some good choices we could have gotten a Tales rep maybe Ninja Gaiden Tekken
 

Kirbyfan391

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I like Ultimate's newcomers so far because there's pretty huge variety. You have Wii U/3DS era newness with Inklings and Chrom, GCN/Wii with Dark Samus, NES long-standing classics in Simon and Ridley(and to an extent, Daisy)), and from SNES, but abandoned as of late, K Rool. It's a breath of fresh air, mix of newness and old, which is what Smash should be imo. Isaac would fit right in.

Edit: Forgot about Richter, him too.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
First off, I've missed a lot of the more recent developments with this thread and don't know where I lost track. Why are we now also a 50 cent support thread haha? Or rather what's the common link we've established?

Second, I know that GameFAQS, ResetEra, and 4Chan can all have their negatives, but outright saying to ignore them isn't really helpful. There are some moments of series discussion and support for characters there despite so much of the trolling and meme culture that SmashBoards just doesn't really allow for. There's also a place for detractors of certain characters who feel that SmashBoards is too positive. That's not always super fun to read when it's your character getting the short stick, but I do think it's helpful to see some of the other discussion on these characters, especially outside the support threads.

I'll also say SmashBoards seems to be knocked for elitism a lot on those boards, and badmouthing them is only going to serve to fuel that sentiment. I will say when things don't get super snarky they do have some fun threads pop up, and I'm always happy to see people have real discussions anywhere about Smash.
 

StormC

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The amount I care about other boards’ opinions of each other is less than zero.

But also ResetERA sucks.
 
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