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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

XenoWarriorX

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I'm actually happy my post (u/Cardiacshoe) got downvoted. People are really starting to believe in Isaac. I honestly can't believe it myself, are we really finally getting him in this game?

The fact that we've even made it back to being this vocal again, this big, is already pretty hype.
You got...downvoted?
Good to see the younger fans being introduced to Golden Sun. I was 13 in 2003 which is when Golden Sun The Lost Age was released in America. I remember reading about it in a Gamepro and thought it looked amazing so I begged my dad to buy it for me. I had no idea it was a sequel but I was luckily able to play the first game years later.
Golden Sun is very nostalgic to me. It's also one of the few RPG's that I can constantly replay over and over and not get tired of going through the story repeatedly.
I liked Golden Sun. I think i remember going into a Movie Trading company one day and suddenly, i found it in a bin for about $20. This was back in 2008, so it was way cheaper back then.

I really like the summons. And i did think the beginning hooked me with the darker tone.
No. It's just him going over the AT Rathalos.

But that skybox glitch is funny. lol.
 
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Jetsurge

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Seriously if Isaac wasn't in I think we would've just seen Isaac's assist trophy back by now. I think he would've gotten the Krystal and Shovel Knight treatment already.
 
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1499

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If Isaac is not in this game, I will literally drink water.
 

Arsenal234

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Seriously if Isaac wasn't in I think we would've just seen Isaac's assist trophy back by now. I think he would've gotten the Krystal and Shovel Knight treatment already.
That is what I was thinking also. Grey Fox (Metal Gear assist trophy) is back from Brawl so Sakurai clearly went back and added him for this game. He crushed a lot of people's dreams with his assist trophy reveals at E3 and this last direct. So if Sakurai wanted to crush our dreams I think he would have done it by now and, give us time to heal before the game is released. Sakurai had to have seen how popular Isaac was on the ballot. If Isaac was an assist at this point I would be shocked.
 

XenoWarriorX

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Relax, you don’t need to go to such extreme lengths to prove your love for Isaac! People will do the craziest things...
I AM CRazy.

I am so willing to do anything for isaac, that i will buy Smash Ultimate if he doesn't get announced.
 

?!?!?!

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Jeez if you guys are willing to do things like that just for a character then I guess I can't associate with this fanbase...
 

pholtos

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I'm sorry guys, I messed up and accidentally hit attack with Mia instead of Psynergy. Luckily it was a random battle and Mia has terribad attack anyways so I ran.

Beat the Desert and then Metal Gear Solid'd my way through a fortress. Also, more Ivan/Sheba silliness.
I've got all but four Djinns by now. Names are a tad messed up since I decided on different classes than I originally intended to go with, but I digress. This has gone fairly well so far, only a couple hurdles, and adept rings are super useful.
 

XenoWarriorX

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Messages
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Jeez if you guys are willing to do things like that just for a character then I guess I can't associate with this fanbase...
u got 2 join the isaaczonian way.

All you got to do is recite the psynergy spell.

.su fo evitatneserpeR ton era sgniht yzarc od taht srehtO .emag eht ni eb ot caasI rof hsiw tsuj I .dab taht ton yllautca si caasi ehT
 
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?!?!?!

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Messages
585
u got 2 join the isaaczonian way.

All you got to do is recite the psynergy spell.

.su fo evitatneserpeR ton era sgniht yzarc od taht srehtO .emag eht ni eb ot caasI rof hsiw tsuj I .dab taht ton yllautca si caasi ehT
Well I actually read that so I guess I have no choice LOL
 

Silo777

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Here’s a question: What do you guys think Isaac’s victory animations would be? I get goosebumps just from imagining the announcer saying his name.
 

XenoWarriorX

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Messages
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Here’s a question: What do you guys think Isaac’s victory animations would be? I get goosebumps just from imagining the announcer saying his name.
I imagine the announcer emphasizing the i and the saac.
 
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Johnknight1

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Really? SaGA/Final Fantasy Legend? The 1st mana game? The Dragon quest ports? Heck, even Link's awakening if you count that as a RPG.
Yes... technologically they were very limited even then. My grandfather owned an old Atari Gen 2 console that was more powerful than the GameBoy spec-wise.

Again, I'm not saying they're bad; I'm saying they weren't huge hits, they weren't the kind of games people remember. People remember the innovative games the most that push technical and technological boundaries as well as the possibilities of what games can be.

That's a huge reason the original Sonic the Hedgehog was such a huge deal. The speed and the movement was something never seen before in video games, nothing possible before. But man, when that game dropped with that much speed, and sequels followed to only further and further pushed the limits... things changed.

Similar things happened with Mario World, A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger, Star Fox, etc... and probably no game in the early 90's was as eye-opening in regards to technological advances as Street Fighter II, the game that birthed the modern fighting game and was the first real fighting game that remotely holds up.

Those are the games people remember the most vividly, the ones that technologically make you go "WOW" and have new and honed mechanics. It's why AAA games will always be big and a big reason why Smash Ultimate looking so good, having so much content, etc will catch our eyes while Rivals of Aether (a smaller indie platform fighter) continues to remain under the radar despite being absolutely stellar.

Again this does not mean the Game Boy or GBC, were bad games. Far from it. It just means they were technologically limited and are more overlooked, and because of their technological limitations (when compared to their console/PC/arcade contemporaries) feel more limited.

They're a lot like Rivals of Aether (when compared to bigger budget fighting games juggernauts like Smash Bros, Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Injustice, Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, Dead or Alive, etc); easier to miss and smaller in scale; but still an incredible game.
I guess there is that. But don't act like it's some historical masterpiece or anything. Golden Sun has always been good as a launch title series. When compared to other games, it doesn't have much of a chance.
Golden Sun made it clear the GBA changed the game in regards to what handheld consoles can do. Once games hit that Gen 4 speed on mobile consoles (namely the GBA) is when the game variety went way upppppp. Before that, games couldn't be as high speed or have as much of a graphical effects (better graphics are something we always want because better graphics and proper usage of that = things are more visually clear and it is visually easier to enjoy said games). Games on handheld consoles began having longer development time (from a few months to a year and upward), bigger budgets, and just more everything (not that more is always better).

We got longer games, new genres finally playable on handheld consoles, and generally the game quality went up. We also were near the 3D era, which was just a generation away on handheld consoles (PSP and DS). That's all really big.
And yes, Earthbound was a flop. In the US.
It was a flop in the US/Canada/Mexico and a minor hit in Japan. Elsewhere... it never released. That's a limited scope game.

But you know what? It became a cult classic because it stood out in time. While yes with my general statements I was talking from a business point of view, from a fan point of view, EarthBound is seen as a banger and a classic.
Everything kinda was garbage. But honestly, i think the only thing saving temple is the music. It's still a garbage location in an otherwise garbage game.

But yeah, i won't dispute it's popularity.
It's a game really only people of that era will appreciate... like me (kind of like some of my point with GB/GBC games; which again, I am in that small-ish demographic).

If Zelda II came out on the Super Nintendo with a Metroidvania presentation/graphics/world/weapon variety/faster gameplay/enemy variety, it could have been an all-time classic. It came out in the wrong era, and because of that, the idea of the game is better than the actual product because of technological limitations.

Objectively speaking the only things great about Zelda II are the contributions the game made to future Zelda entries and the music. But personally speaking, despite the games' numerous huge flaws, I still enjoyed it. It's fine to enjoy/like bad games lol.
You were the one that started saying to me that those Capcom LoZ games were "inferior products to The OG Legend of Zelda, Link's Awakening A Link to the Past, and A Link Between Worlds. They are not as experimental as Zelda II, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild. They are not core Zelda titles like all the 3D Zelda games, the original Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, or A Link Between Worlds." So i'm not sure what kind of response you were expecting.

And it really doesn't help your earlier argument of "Oh the reason why Oracle of seasons/time doesn't get much content in smash is because they are filler games." Since the mere existence of Spirits tracks is enough to disprove that argument.
You are misconstruing what I am saying. I am talking in terms of business, money, income, from Nintendo's perspective, not my opinion on which games I prefer (my favorite until BotW was the original, which is a terrible product legacy-wise when compared to all of the 3D Zelda games).

In terms of products to sell and make money off of yes, they are inferior products. That is a fact. Nintendo doesn't make much money or legacy money off of the Oracle games. The legacy money comes from the core titles (sans the original, which is only considered a "core title" because it was the first and really was a solid game entry, but otherwise is seen as unremarkable; I say that and it's my favorite game in the series until BotW came out).

If I am being honest, if I went back and played the Oracle games, I would probably enjoy them more than I do Ocarina of Time (I personally think Ocarina of Time aged very poorly and is clunky with lackluster gameplay albeit an amazing overworld and atmosphere). But as products in a marketplace, they are inferior products because they make less money, they are less recognizable, and they aren't something Nintendo makes big money off of.

My actual opinions on how good the Zelda games are is very different from how important they are viewed by Nintendo and how big of an impact they have.
Now one can make an argument of timing, but that's a whole different can of worms.
Timing is key in just about everything in any industry.
(Oh yeah. Skyward Sword was SUPER experimental. But it's also an experiment gone horribly wrong.)
I don't disagree. I really disliked Skyward Sword personally. But it is still a core title, a big game, a moneymaker.
 
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DogManStar

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Here’s a question: What do you guys think Isaac’s victory animations would be? I get goosebumps just from imagining the announcer saying his name.
One of them will probably have Djinn, like his SSF2 one does. Maybe they'll reference his pose on the original cover of GS?
 

Johnknight1

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Here’s a question: What do you guys think Isaac’s victory animations would be? I get goosebumps just from imagining the announcer saying his name.
1. Isaac lifts a rock from the ground to display his abilities and celebrates.

2. Isaac turns towards the camera with his signature smile, much akin to his original character drawing.
1535432953434.jpeg

3. Isaac whips out his weaponry and shows off his sword abilities (possibly with his crew from Golden Sun 1), referencing the original box art.


As suggested above by Isaac: Venus Adept Isaac: Venus Adept it would be neat if Djinn somehow were involved in at least one of Isaac's Victory Screens.
 
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KMDP

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Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
If Isaac is not in this game, I will literally drink water.
The terrors of Dihydrogen Monoxide.
---
ANYWAY!

Look what I did~.
IsaacArt.png

I meant to draw a sword, but then forgot and didn't realize it was missing until after I was exporting the image.

Just goes to show how important I consider a Sword to his image, huh? :laugh:
 

Johnknight1

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Pfff didn't even see that part. Guess I should put on my glasses. Lol.
At least you didn't post to a friend spoilers you were already talking about, only to find out when you put on your glasses you weren't talking spoilers with your friend, you were posting in a spoiler free zone like a jerk face.

(I hated myself then lmao, although luckily the spoilers I posted weren't a big deal because they were unspecific so it wasn't an actual spoiler thank goodness)
Nah, I'll pass. Milk is... kinda gross.
The only thing I am drinking for the next roughly 100 days was hype! :laugh:
 

KMDP

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One thing about that hand...

It's uh... not easy positioning your fingers like that. :laugh:
 

XenoWarriorX

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Yes... technologically they were very limited even then. My grandfather owned an old Atari Gen 2 console that was more powerful than the GameBoy spec-wise.

Again, I'm not saying they're bad; I'm saying they weren't huge hits, they weren't the kind of games people remember. People remember the innovative games the most that push technical and technological boundaries as well as the possibilities of what games can be.

That's a huge reason the original Sonic the Hedgehog was such a huge deal. The speed and the movement was something never seen before in video games, nothing possible before. But man, when that game dropped with that much speed, and sequels followed to only further and further pushed the limits... things changed.

Similar things happened with Mario World, A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger, Star Fox, etc... and probably no game in the early 90's was as eye-opening in regards to technological advances as Street Fighter II, the game that birthed the modern fighting game and was the first real fighting game that remotely holds up.

Those are the games people remember the most vividly, the ones that technologically make you go "WOW" and have new and honed mechanics. It's why AAA games will always be big and a big reason why Smash Ultimate looking so good, having so much content, etc will catch our eyes while Rivals of Aether (a smaller indie platform fighter) continues to remain under the radar despite being absolutely stellar.

Again this does not mean the Game Boy or GBC, were bad games. Far from it. It just means they were technologically limited and are more overlooked, and because of their technological limitations (when compared to their console/PC/arcade contemporaries) feel more limited.

They're a lot like Rivals of Aether (when compared to bigger budget fighting games juggernauts like Smash Bros, Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Injustice, Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, Dead or Alive, etc); easier to miss and smaller in scale; but still an incredible game.

Golden Sun made it clear the GBA changed the game in regards to what handheld consoles can do. Once games hit that Gen 4 speed on mobile consoles (namely the GBA) is when the game variety went way upppppp. Before that, games couldn't be as high speed or have as much of a graphical effects (better graphics are something we always want because better graphics and proper usage of that = things are more visually clear and it is visually easier to enjoy said games). Games on handheld consoles began having longer development time (from a few months to a year and upward), bigger budgets, and just more everything (not that more is always better).

We got longer games, new genres finally playable on handheld consoles, and generally the game quality went up. We also were near the 3D era, which was just a generation away on handheld consoles (PSP and DS). That's all really big.

It was a flop in the US/Canada/Mexico and a minor hit in Japan. Elsewhere... it never released. That's a limited scope game.

But you know what? It became a cult classic because it stood out in time. While yes with my general statements I was talking from a business point of view, from a fan point of view, EarthBound is seen as a banger and a classic.

It's a game really only people of that era will appreciate... like me (kind of like some of my point with GB/GBC games; which again, I am in that small-ish demographic).

If Zelda II came out on the Super Nintendo with a Metroidvania presentation/graphics/world/weapon variety/faster gameplay/enemy variety, it could have been an all-time classic. It came out in the wrong era, and because of that, the idea of the game is better than the actual product because of technological limitations.

Objectively speaking the only things great about Zelda II are the contributions the game made to future Zelda entries and the music. But personally speaking, despite the games' numerous huge flaws, I still enjoyed it. It's fine to enjoy/like bad games lol.

You are misconstruing what I am saying. I am talking in terms of business, money, income, from Nintendo's perspective, not my opinion on which games I prefer (my favorite until BotW was the original, which is a terrible product legacy-wise when compared to all of the 3D Zelda games).

In terms of products to sell and make money off of yes, they are inferior products. That is a fact. Nintendo doesn't make much money or legacy money off of the Oracle games. The legacy money comes from the core titles (sans the original, which is only considered a "core title" because it was the first and really was a solid game entry, but otherwise is seen as unremarkable; I say that and it's my favorite game in the series until BotW came out).

If I am being honest, if I went back and played the Oracle games, I would probably enjoy them more than I do Ocarina of Time (I personally think Ocarina of Time aged very poorly and is clunky with lackluster gameplay albeit an amazing overworld and atmosphere). But as products in a marketplace, they are inferior products because they make less money, they are less recognizable, and they aren't something Nintendo makes big money off of.

My actual opinions on how good the Zelda games are is very different from how important they are viewed by Nintendo and how big of an impact they have.

Timing is key in just about everything in any industry.

I don't disagree. I really disliked Skyward Sword personally. But it is still a core title, a big game, a moneymaker.


Well, times do change. Golden Sun wasn't being pushed as much because it's other franchises were more of a propriety to them. It's a shame. I do think 3D graphics were able to be pushed so much because of it's origins of being an N64 game. But Camelot couldn't keep up when tech progressed so much.

Still, Hidemaro directed Minish cap, and i think he was the best choice for directing Breath of the wild. (Even though i hated Phantom Hourglass. But i did think his story for Skyward sword was pretty decent.)



For some reason, Zelda 2 reminds me a bit of ActRaiser, with the overworld view and the RPG-ish active combat. (Kinda like how Crystalis was Link to the past on the NES.) I just don't think the NES was capable of such thing, and Zelda 2 ended up being disapointing. Because i think, like you, i like the idea of it more than the game.

As for the Mother series being a minor hit. You arent wrong.

https://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-series-sales-figures/

And for Skyward Sword being a money-maker, eeeeeh. It did okay.

zelda_sales.png



(Also, i would like to apologize for being a bit harsh with my responses. :p )
 

iam8bit

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As unlikely as it is... What would everyone think about Isaac pulling a Rosalina and being "Isaac and Flint", using Flint as an assistant in his moves?
 

GoodGrief741

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As unlikely as it is... What would everyone think about Isaac pulling a Rosalina and being "Isaac and Flint", using Flint as an assistant in his moves?
I hate Rosalina’s moveset and I hate her being called Rosalina & Luma.

So I’d probably hate this too, just a bit less because it’s Isaac.
 

SonicLink125

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Seriously if Isaac wasn't in I think we would've just seen Isaac's assist trophy back by now. I think he would've gotten the Krystal and Shovel Knight treatment already.
I feel like that if Isaac is an AT and Sakurai is now in the know that we are waiting for Isaac, Sakurai is definitely going to have to show him in the next direct. But if Isaac is a fighter...well...hard to say how long the waiting game will be.
 

pholtos

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*taps foot impatiently some more, so much that the ground is cracking beneath my feet*
 

alguidrag

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Here’s a question: What do you guys think Isaac’s victory animations would be? I get goosebumps just from imagining the announcer saying his name.
Fist bumping the psyenergy hand
Playing with a Venus Djinn
Making a Psyenergy hand as a chair
Retreat!
Fall at sleep
Raise his sword similar to when he make Psyenergy in the games
 

candyissweet

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Joined
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Messages
176
Fist bumping the psyenergy hand
Playing with a Venus Djinn
Making a Psyenergy hand as a chair
Retreat!
Fall at sleep
Raise his sword similar to when he make Psyenergy in the games
I really like the falling asleep idea, since it references winning at Collosus and would be pretty unique compared to other character's victories.
 

Johnknight1

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Well, times do change. Golden Sun wasn't being pushed as much because it's other franchises were more of a propriety to them. It's a shame. I do think 3D graphics were able to be pushed so much because of it's origins of being an N64 game. But Camelot couldn't keep up when tech progressed so much.
3D graphics also EXPLODED the video game industry like nothing before it. The PlayStation 1 sold about twice as many consoles as the previous best-selling console, and the PS2 topped that by a lot, while the PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii all made billions of dollars.

As for Golden Sun's evolution, again being the first is a huge deal. They were the first to the "new age" and "more modern age" of handheld games that was finally upon us. Gone were the NES level graphics and in were the mid-Super Nintendo era graphics immediately... on the go. And The Lost Age topped it and brought us end-Super Nintendo era graphics. All that plus the great gameplay and possibilities (which are directly tied to physics and graphical developments) were a huge part of Golden Sun's popularity.

The ultimate problem with the Golden Sun series is it never had a long-term hook. Pokémon had "gotta catch 'em all" and a sense of just feeling hugeeeee because of all the creatures. It also had an insanely popular 1v1 (And latter 2v2 and 3v3) battle mode, trading, etc. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest had a built up legacy built upon multiple games. Golden Sun has a cool lore and cool combat, but like... it was never pushed in a way to make people want more intuitively. The story hooks also kind of downplayed the desire for a sequel in The Lost Age.

After The Lost Age, Golden Sun never really continued. It couldn't do either because it didn't have the hook or the legacy. And once it came back, it was a one-shot when it should have been a new beginning (a one shot in Dark Dawn that wasn't the same kind of limit pusher the first two games were). If you brought the series back in the modern era... it would need a serious hook in order to be big.
Still, Hidemaro directed Minish cap, and i think he was the best choice for directing Breath of the wild. (Even though i hated Phantom Hourglass. But i did think his story for Skyward sword was pretty decent.)
Personally I enjoyed the Minish Cap, but it ended right as it kicked into the 3rd gear. Game took way too long to get going and didn't stay long enough.

As for Breath of the Wild... wasn't expecting much out of it initially, but it sold me, and became one of my favorite and most beloved games of all-time. Loved it to death.
For some reason, Zelda 2 reminds me a bit of ActRaiser, with the overworld view and the RPG-ish active combat. (Kinda like how Crystalis was Link to the past on the NES.) I just don't think the NES was capable of such thing, and Zelda 2 ended up being disapointing. Because i think, like you, i like the idea of it more than the game.
To me it just felt like Metroid with no weapons and all swordplay. While I actually really liked the swordplay, I thought the lack of weapons and platforming really hurt it. Instead the pacing is just awkward. If you add more weapons, it at least becomes a decent-ish game of its' time, maybe almost as good as Metroid. At worst it is like Kid Icarus where it is kind of okay. Instead it just sort of is. At the very least, it's a fun game if you like "hate yourself difficulty" games in regards to mechanics and is a great (and very tedious) challenge to beat. Still in regards to NES sidescrollers, you'd be better off playing numerous other titles.

If you release Zelda II properly in the Super Nintendo era though... it could have been a legendary game. I would actually really love to see some crazed team at Nintendo make a 2D side scrolling Zelda like it again. I wanna see what they could do and see i they could fulfill the potential of that game. There's quite a few games like that which I think could just be undeniably excellent if they were remade like that. Castelvania 2, Final Fantasy 8 and Pokemon Coliseum comes to mind in this regard personally speaking.
As for the Mother series being a minor hit. You arent wrong.

https://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-series-sales-figures/
The one thing about the series though is that it makes a lowkey good amount of earnings from merchandising, like a lot of cult classic media franchises. Probably a lot more than the games do actually. Add in that it directly lead to Pokémon... and whatever losses were accrued by Nintendo were more than worth it (Pokémon annuals makes so many billions of dollars my head can't wrap around the idea of it all).
And for Skyward Sword being a money-maker, eeeeeh. It did okay.
View attachment 160121
There's a flaw with your point: merchandising and brand value.

The merchandising from that game was reallllllllly good. Merchandising is super key, and it also directly effects brand value. And the value of the Zelda brand went way up due to Skyward Sword's hugely positive critical reception (although again I was not a fan of the game; I thought it was an incomplete experiment and a subpar game).

Despite Smash Wii U not selling anywhere near as much as Mario Kart 8, Smash Wii U made more money. Why? Amiibo and Merchandising, as well as increasing the brand value of every franchise Smash highlights (especially the ones with playable characters). Fire Emblem went from a cult hit in Japan in the early and mid-90's to having a mobile game that's grossed over half a billion dollars in large part because of Smash Bros.
(Also, i would like to apologize for being a bit harsh with my responses. :p )
Posting is a lot easier when you're laughing at yourself.
 
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Tetiro

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Morning peeps! You reached 8,000 posts this week but I had a three day anniversary with my partner (he is supporting me in my Isaac fan support)

Oh well! Enough about my excuses! Time for your just reward! Another one of my classic 5-minute post-it note drawings! Next one at 9,000!

DSC_0273.JPG


EDIT: I made one deliberate mistake with this meme. Cookie for the first one to guess it!
 
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