Solbliminal
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Just dropping in to share my support for Isaac. Been a long time supporter since the Project M voting thread days. Here's hoping he is dealt justice this time.
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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
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Organization XIII
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But a few Minish Cap stickers appeared in Brawl and Capcom wasn't involved with that game.
XenoWarriorX
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Okay, so that's even stranger.
So Nintendo DOESNT own the music of the Capcom games.
That would make sense since it's originally created at Capcom.
And vaati possiblt might be in the same boat.
So I came across this little gem.
So Nintendo DOESNT own the music of the Capcom games.
That would make sense since it's originally created at Capcom.
And vaati possiblt might be in the same boat.
For me the top 3 picks are Isaac Geno and Skull Kid, but
Geno hints comes from the end of Smash 4 era and his crazy popularity, especialy on youtube because Gamefreak prove this, Nostalgia sells and A LOT, and he is a unique character, he is a Pinoquio mage!
Skull Kid is maybe the realistic pic of the 3 since his fanbase(lower than the other too but still) is huge! Majoras is one of if not the most loved 3D Zelda and he is shown many times in the Zelda games close to the Smash U development era, plus he is the most popular Zelda character out of Impa and the Triforce trio, also the chairs is more strech than Rathalos but still something.
Isaac have a huge fanbase, but like the character. the fanbase is mute and don't like to scream a lot to others maybe in shame of our brother fanbase on Waluigi, Golden Sun is one of the last "close to big" Nintendo IP to be in Smash, and Ballot is a thing,
Isaac maybe very well there, maybe not in the levels of K.Rool but good for a non-representative IP. He is unique too, because outside Ivysaur(which I think is the weakest of Pokemon Trainer trio) we don't have a earth related character and Robin proved that even a Swordsman can be the most unique fighter, we got a good number of hints and strechs with the Rathalos pic and the sun in K.rool trailer, the minimum we could get from him is a AT because of the Ballot, huge characters in the ballot like Shovel Knight, Zero and others even if they gotten the AT treatment they still in the game, so I'm sure Isaac will be in the game at least as a AT. But I have hope!
For me Geno is 40/60
Skull Kid is 60/40 (at least as a AT he is in)
Isaac is a 50/50 (same as Skull Kid)
Geno hints comes from the end of Smash 4 era and his crazy popularity, especialy on youtube because Gamefreak prove this, Nostalgia sells and A LOT, and he is a unique character, he is a Pinoquio mage!
Skull Kid is maybe the realistic pic of the 3 since his fanbase(lower than the other too but still) is huge! Majoras is one of if not the most loved 3D Zelda and he is shown many times in the Zelda games close to the Smash U development era, plus he is the most popular Zelda character out of Impa and the Triforce trio, also the chairs is more strech than Rathalos but still something.
Isaac have a huge fanbase, but like the character. the fanbase is mute and don't like to scream a lot to others maybe in shame of our brother fanbase on Waluigi, Golden Sun is one of the last "close to big" Nintendo IP to be in Smash, and Ballot is a thing,
Isaac maybe very well there, maybe not in the levels of K.Rool but good for a non-representative IP. He is unique too, because outside Ivysaur(which I think is the weakest of Pokemon Trainer trio) we don't have a earth related character and Robin proved that even a Swordsman can be the most unique fighter, we got a good number of hints and strechs with the Rathalos pic and the sun in K.rool trailer, the minimum we could get from him is a AT because of the Ballot, huge characters in the ballot like Shovel Knight, Zero and others even if they gotten the AT treatment they still in the game, so I'm sure Isaac will be in the game at least as a AT. But I have hope!
For me Geno is 40/60
Skull Kid is 60/40 (at least as a AT he is in)
Isaac is a 50/50 (same as Skull Kid)
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Arsenal234
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True Isaac doesn't need to use his sword but I feel to represent the Golden Sun series better he should have an artifact weapon. The Gaia blade, Sol blade, and Excalibur are all iconic Goden Sun weapons. Isaac shouldn't use his sword for all of his attacks just tilts and some aerials. The last thing I want to see is Sakurai not represent Golden Sun in it's entirety to please a few people who will find something else to complain about. Isaac could literally leave his sword on his back all the time and people will still call him a Marth clone. I personally don't want to see Isaac show up with one of the most powerful weapons in Golden Sun and use it only for taunts.
lanky_gunner
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Dang, that would suck if Vaati was in the same boat Geno has been in. He is my top Zelda pick too.
Ah, the Ganondorf treatment. Actually, I wouldn't mind if his weapon was just for aesthetic purposes, and his whole moveset just has variations on Djinn and Psynergy moves.
Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
People talk about how K.Rule and Ridley broke the internet with the reviels. I don’t think Isaac will have the same effect
Especially with a reveal like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX7NiaaLZM8
Especially with a reveal like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX7NiaaLZM8
Solbliminal
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I think you might be surprised honestly. People like characters like Cloud, the FE cast, and Shulk all just fine even if they haven't played the games they are from. I'm one of the few on that list who just really like Isaac just based on what little I know of him.
Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
I was just being sarcastic lol, that’s why I linked the Jesus Christ reveal from that fighting game.
Solbliminal
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Pfff didn't even see that part. Guess I should put on my glasses. Lol.
Organization XIII
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Yeah I was aware of that but it's not strange for music to be retained and Vaati is still unknown. Everyone just guesses but there's no definitive answer and I doubt we will ever get one.
Organization XIII
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Because it wasn't the character someone wanted. People will always find a way to complain when things don't go exactly the way they want.
JaidynReiman
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Nintendo owns Vaati. Vaati was in Four Swords Adventures, which featured 0 collaboration from Capcom. The question is moreso if Capcom owns Vaati's human design.
The designs of the three Goddesses have largely been based on the designs of the three oracles:
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Golden_Goddesses#Physical_Appearance
And the symbols of the three goddesses are also basically identical to the song symbols you can get on the Harp of Ages:
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tune_of_Echoes
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tune_of_Ages
https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tune_of_Currents
It should be noted that there were references to the Oracle games in Hyrule Warriors Legends. People overlook the small things, but there were food items based on the Oracle games: all five types of seeds you can get in them.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/167257-hyrule-warriors-legends/73532651
Daphnes also fuses a kinstone for an attack in Hyrule Warriors (its a nod to both Minish Cap and him fusing the triforce in Wind Waker):
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/745183-hyrule-warriors/73783366
The Oracles and Minish Cap, like every other game, are also in the timeline:
https://www.zelda.com/about/
A Minish-like race were planned for BotW and scrapped (maybe they wouldn't have been called Minish? That's just weird if it was the case):
http://www.dorkly.com/post/82738/zelda-cut-material
And lastly, BotW references the Oracle games with a number of locations, just like every other game.
If Nintendo had no claim to them, you'd think they would stop including references. No characters from those games have appeared in games outside of them, but, well, Nintendo never really reuses Zelda characters anyway aside from a small handful. Which only leaves Hyrule Warriors, where its absolutely possible characters from the Oracles and Minish Cap will get included later. Its hard to say, though. The only thing stated is that in a panel about the Legends DLC, they said that Vaati "would be difficult" but didn't explain why.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/167257-hyrule-warriors-legends/73544823?page=2
Not that I think Vaati can or will happen in Smash, but I don't think the character is owned by Capcom. The (human) design, on the other hand, might be. And even that's up for heavy debate.
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Yeah and its kinda sad tbh. For me personally even if Isaac doesn't make it (I would be internally salty), I'm open minded and always ready to learn about the new characters, even if its from a franchise I don't particularly care about
Demonfunds
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I actually don't know much about this character, but the amount of people who want him makes me want him, he looks like he would fit in great, hell I might even try one of the golden sun games since the amount of people who love them.
With that being said may I be added to the supporter list
True Blue Warrior
With that being said may I be added to the supporter list
True Blue Warrior
XenoWarriorX
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It really sucks if Nintendo did another Geno. And the worst part is that there isn't an official answer.
Actually, Mario RPG is referenced in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. But they were never "fully" references. These references would be put in the same category.
Also, they said Vaati would be "difficult"? Why?
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Johnknight1
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No Nintendo fully owns Vatti, similar to the DKC situation. They didn't add Minishes in Breath of the Wild because they thought the game already had enough.
The reason we don't see any content from Oracles of Ages/Seasons, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures or Minish Cap is those games are mostly just filler and are very forgettable games. I've beaten all of them and I can't remember a lick of them but maybe the central gimmicks. They aren't key Zelda games, nor are they games anyone but Zelda fans will remember 20 years from now.
They are inferior products to The OG Legend of Zelda, Link's Awakening A Link to the Past, and A Link Between Worlds. They are not as experimental as Zelda II, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild. They are not core Zelda titles like all the 3D Zelda games, the original Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, or A Link Between Worlds.
It's the same reason why we got basically nothing from TriForce Heroes. The only reason we got The Spirit Train is because Spirit Tracks had that one very good song and people liked the train. Smash 3DS needed a handheld Zelda stage, and it was the newest "new" handheld Zelda game at the time was Spirit Tracks. And even then, Smash 3DS came with a new Ocarina of Time (3D) stage in Gerudo Valley.
Really not a lot to it.
20 years later, when people talk of Zelda games around the turn of the century, they talk Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, not the Oracle games or Four Swords games.
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XenoWarriorX
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So they aren't put in because they're "filler". But Spirit tracks, and Phantom hourglass, the WORST of the series, get representation.
Bull****.
Johnknight1
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Spirit Tracks got a stage because it was the newest one at the time Smash 3DS came out and the dev team wanted Zelda stages from handheld Zelda stages. The Spirit Train sticks out a lot as a horizontal moving stage and it fits that stage gimmick incredibly well. Heck the Spirit Train is most of what anyone remembers of that game along with that banger of a train theme.
We got Gerudo Valley (Ocarina of Time 3DS) in Smash 3DS for similar (albeit not the same) reasons (no Ocarina of Time stage, newest handheld remake).
Timing sometimes is everything. If we got a Melee follow up in 2004, we'd have had Isaac playable already for example, as well as a Gen 3 Pokémon. Instead a Melee followup came in 2008, which was a perfect time to add Lucas (without having him replace Ness) and Lucario.
And IDK about which game is the worst. I'm just stating my analysis.
There's a reason why the Zelda stages we have are from all the major games (sans the original but more on that later) in A Link to the Past (Hyrule Castle), Ocarina of Time (Gerudo Valley), Majora's Mask (Great Bay), Wind Waker (Pirate Ship), Twilight Princess (Bridge of Eldin), Skyward Sword (Skyloft) and Breath of the Wild (Great Plateau Tower).
We got Spirit Train (Spirit Train) because of aforementioned reasons and we got Hyrule Temple (Zelda II) because the Temples in Zelda II were super iconic, unique looking and cool and it also fits the Zelda I/II vibe super well. It really feels old and cool.
(Note: this is just my analysis on things, not necessarily my opinion. I would have rather had a stage from A Link Between Worlds over the Spirit Train)
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Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
Yeah I really disliked spirit tracks (but enjoyed phantom hourglass unlike the majority) but gotta admit the spirit tracks stage is really cool and unique. Both Pirate ship and the spirit train are awsome in fact, I love toon zelda universe.
SirCamp
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I mean if you're going to go that route, both Oracle games would make for great stage backgrounds or even gimmicks due to the time and seasons gimmicks. Even if you're unfamiliar with the games. Seems like a similar enough reason to add them as people liking the train.
GoodGrief741
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That notion is so laughable I won’t even attempt to debate it.
We don't not get stages from older games in long running series because they're "filler" (which is a pointless qualifier) but because they're not recent. Since Brawl, either the stage is a generic representation of the series, or you can tie it to a release that's occurred since the past Smash (unless it's deliberately very retro - like 75m or Mario Bros). The only exceptions are if there's nothing new to draw from, like with Mother and F-Zero. Or Kirby, because Sakurai.
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Isaac4SmashUltimate
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So my LoZ wants would be Toon Zelda/Tetra/Toon Sheik, Impa, Toon Ganondorf and Vaati. LoZ has way too many one off villains like Skull Kid.
XenoWarriorX
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Alright. So going by that logic. Golden Sun shouldn't get anything.
"I mean, it's not a game not critically acclaimed by the masses. The game is so forgettable by the masses and the gaming community. In fact, take out all references and any stages that relate to franchises that aren't popular. JUST PUT IN THE POPULAR AND CRITICALLY ACCALIMED FRANCHISES. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SMASH IS ABOUT."
No. Smash is about the history of Nintendo. That's why we want Isaac don't we? We come here to give our support, because we know the gaming community itself won't.
The Capcom LoZ games, golden sun, Custom Robo, Sin and Punishment, Geno, and many others.
No matter how big or how small. No matter how good or how bad. They should all be represented in some form. No matter HOW obscure they are.
That's what I believe. Take it or leave it. Because right now, I've said my point.
All we need to do now is support the Golden Boy, Issac. Because we DAMN WELL KNOW we can get him into the spot with our support.
SebasSancy
Smash Journeyman
Kolima Forest with Tret and Laurel in the brackgroud? I'ts one of the few areas in both Golden Sun and Golden Sun Dark Dawn. Or Maybe a travelling stage of weyard? or Lemuria! so many options really
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Jupiter Ivan
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Welcome! Regardless of what happens with Isaac and Smash I highly recommend Golden Sun. If you have a WiiU go for it.I actually don't know much about this character, but the amount of people who want him makes me want him, he looks like he would fit in great, hell I might even try one of the golden sun games since the amount of people who love them.
With that being said may I be added to the supporter list
It’s an underrated series that many would say is dead. But I say nay, a franchise is only dead if the fan base lets it die.
Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
I vote for the lighthouse that change every time you play on it, it's too iconic, and I can imagine something as beautiful as the fountain of dream.
Isaac4SmashUltimate
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But if Skull Kid does become playable, I would be surprised for a short while but get used to it after a while. No point in being upset when Sakurai always manage to 1-UP himself with every SSB game.
I also have a notepad for my wants for SSB.Come on, Sylux. :-P
I also have a notepad for my wants for SSB.
if he become playable I will shout "Predictable Sakurai! Now show me a thing I didn't saw coming" Prince Sablé appears "Thanks! Now show Isaac please"
Jupiter Ivan
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I mean the entirety of every game has perfect set pieces for stages. Sol Sanctum, Elemental Star Chamber, Goma Caves, Kolima Forest, All 4 Lighthouses, Tolbi Bound Ship, Colosso, Babi Lighthouse, Lemuria, Magma, Airs, Aqua and Gaia Rock, Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh!
Oh yeah I noticed something
In the base of Mercury Lighthouse we got the Mercury clan
In the base of Jupiter Lighthouse we got the village with Jupiter adepts
In the base of Mars Lighthouse we got the Fire clan of proxy
But in the Venus Lighthouse we got 0 notice of Venus adepts, isn't kinda strange this?
In the base of Mercury Lighthouse we got the Mercury clan
In the base of Jupiter Lighthouse we got the village with Jupiter adepts
In the base of Mars Lighthouse we got the Fire clan of proxy
But in the Venus Lighthouse we got 0 notice of Venus adepts, isn't kinda strange this?
Johnknight1
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I don't disagree with the gimmicks.
If we were to get more stages from Zelda, only games I think could get a new stage (other than Ganon's Castle as a general and generic location) would be another Breath of the Wild stage, Clock Town from Majora's Mask or something A Link Between Worlds.. at least until a new Zelda game comes out.
\\
Also, there seems to be some misreading in my "filler" comments. The point behind the "filler" comments is that handheld games have historically (especially in the GB/GBC era) made to be beaten quickly and to be shorter, smaller games that rely on a central gimmick or two that are very simple. They're simple and thus forgettable experiences, in contrast to home console releases, which are generally longer, have more gimmicks/mechanics, better/more fleshed out mechanics, and in the GBC era onward could be in full 3D. Most Game Boy/GBC games are in many ways remnants of their time, as they age quite differently than say later SNES games (Chrono Trigger, Super Metroid, Yoshi's Island) or 3D gen 5 games like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.
So of course Nintendo wouldn't make the Oracle games as memorable as say Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask or as heavily marketed; the latter were cutting edge and bigger games with more mechanics. That's not an opinion, that's how game development of that era worked and how these games are marketed. It also applies to Mario, which is why Mario Land 1 and 2 weren't marketed or pushed as "core" Mario games the same way Yoshi's Island or Mario 64 were.
On top of that, the Game Boy/GBC tech-wise were in a few to many ways more limited than the NES tech-wise, and most games of the pre-NES era were of very low replay value (even many single-player NES games had 3-5 levels; only bigger budget/studio pre-NES games had more and longer levels). Add limited battery life and the design of mobile games (to be fun to play in short 5 minute to 1 hour bursts depending on the time), and it's enforced a design philosophy as well.
Not saying you can't like those games (I did), but really the only handheld games of that era made to get a lot of replay value I can think off the top of my head were Pokémon releases (which remain really good at being pick up and play and being games people could go back to after 10 and 100 hours). And even then, Pokémon came around several years after the Game Boy came out and the technology was more developed.
The GBA era kind of broke that since the tech was more similar to the Super Nintendo, which is the era where games realllly started to have more replay value, longer and more levels, etc... which is ultimately what gave us action games like Castlevania and Mega Man Zero on the GBA which finally brought us faster paced action platformers on handheld systems, and gave us longer, more thought out RPG's... like Golden Sun.
Which is a big reason Golden Sun was such a BIG GAME. It sort of represents the ushering in of a new era of handheld games where they felt like Super Nintendo games on the go (but more expanded and in a new era).
(really don't see how this was controversial TBH or why some things being seen as "filler" is bad. Some of my favorite things are filler-ish. Not everything needs to be big or gigantic or super memorable to be great)
Jupiter Ivan
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Honestly Venus Adepts as a whole are enigmatic.
Isaac and Felix are just about the only Venus Adepts we know of. Maybe Kyle, but we never see him use Psynergy.
Whereas we know of Multiple Mars, Mercury and Jupiter Adepts over the course of the games.
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XenoWarriorX
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2018
- Messages
- 2,278
I mean, Golden sun wasn't really a big game.
It's not talked about like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Earthbound, or even **** like SMT.
And really, for such a "big game" it sure is pretty short for an RPG.
Also, I'd argue the temple from Zelda 2 is one of the least interesting Zelda location I can think of. It's just a temple. That's it. "Iconic" is all but a load of ****.
And we also have tons of music/ and even some stages from the GB/GBC era of Nintendo. So again, that statement on GB/GBC games being "forgettable" experiences is complete horse**** when you remember that link's Awakening, a masterpiece, was on the gameboy.
So, yeah.
Jupiter Ivan
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2018
- Messages
- 527
Aaaaah I’d forgotten about the people of Izumo. Alright my bad.
As for Sheba, we’ll the theory regarding her (also my favorite unexplained thing in the game) would actually explain that.
The theory is that Sheba is a child from Anemos. The ancient city that was once near Contigo. The ancient city was levitated by the powerful Jupiter Adepts that lived there and this hunk of rock became Weyards Moon. Sheba inexplicably falling from the sky would make sense if she came from there. Her landing near Lalivero is just where the moon happened to be hanging over at that time.