Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Sabrewulf238]

Also, I don't see it being a secound FF rep. The FF series is still exclusively reping FF7 on the music screen rather than the franchise as a whole, so Terra is likely a no show.

Which would mean the three main candidates would be Geno, Sora or a Dragon Quest rep.

I did hear that there's a particular Dragon Quest character who's very popular in Japan. However that character likely had no impact at all in the west so you have to wonder if that would factor into a decision.

Edit: This is the character I think, he's called Erdrick:

Spoiler

The only thing I can imagine is this guy turning out to be Japans Ridley.

I feel like worldwide Geno would probably have beaten him though, since Geno is no slouch in Japanese popularity either.

 

[EarlTamm]

I did hear that there's a particular Dragon Quest character who's very popular in Japan. However that character likely had no impact at all in the west so you have to wonder if that would factor into a decision.

DQ is not that big over here, and the fact that so far the roster is very west leaning does not lean in DQ's favor. Honestly, It would likely be Geno. He's popular on both sides of the sea, he is a favorite of Sakurai(Who even basically confirmed that Geno did well in the ballot), as well as being a rep that is very tied with Nintendo and has a unique moveset.

 

[SirCamp]

The character itself might not have been individually impactful, but the games were very impactful regardless. And despite not being as popular Dragon Quest is still very recognizable here. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

Conversely, I don't think Geno is as well known as people here like to think. I'm 29 and I literally didn't know Geno existed until I was introduced to him via Smash speculation. As far as I know, my gamer friends aren't aware of him either. Though, to be honest I kind of want to ask them next time I see each of them just to satisfy my curiosity. I still think he's popular, but he was a secondary character in one game. On top of being third party.

Like, it kind of boggles my mind that that is considered a more likely choice than a character from one of the most important JRPG series of all time. Also recall that the series is mega popular in Japan. We got our Ridley bone, whose to say they wouldn't get a bone of their own?

DQ is not that big over here, and the fact that so far the roster is very west leaning does not lean in DQ's favor. Honestly, It would likely be Geno. He's popular on both sides of the sea, he is a favorite of Sakurai(Who even basically confirmed that Geno did well in the ballot), as well as being a rep that is very tied with Nintendo and has a unique moveset.

To this end, I don't think that's a pattern terribly worth considering. First, we don't have nearly enough data points to draw such a conclusion (that there is a pattern here). And second that could just as easily mean that we just haven't seen the one or two largely Japan oriented roster choices yet. Again, I think both are decently likely, but it's weird to me how much DQ gets written off here and Geno gets put on a pedestal.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I'm definitely willing to believe that moveset potential is very important this time, in addition to pure fan demand. Why else would Sakurai ignore massive requests like Waluigi? I agree, I think he might be looking for characters that give him a lot of material to work with.

Well Waluigi is not well liked to say in Japan.

 

[StormC]

The character itself might not have been individually impactful, but the games were very impactful regardless. And despite not being as popular Dragon Quest is still very recognizable here. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

Conversely, I don't think Geno is as well known as people here like to think. I'm 29 and I literally didn't know Geno existed until I was introduced to him via Smash speculation. As far as I know, my gamer friends aren't aware of him either. Though, to be honest I kind of want to ask them next time I see each of them just to satisfy my curiosity. I still think he's popular, but he was a secondary character in one game. On top of being third party.

Like, it kind of boggles my mind that that is considered a more likely choice than a character from one of the most important JRPG series of all time. Also recall that the series is mega popular in Japan. We got our Ridley bone, whose to say they wouldn't get a bone of their own?

Ridley was a character people from the west actually requested. Very few people are requesting DQ characters in Japan. Bandana Dee would be a better comparison to Ridley.

Geno's been requested for over a decade, and is someone Sakurai actually wanted at one point.

 

[N3ON]

It's Geno.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The character itself might not have been individually impactful, but the games were very impactful regardless. And despite not being as popular Dragon Quest is still very recognizable here. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

Conversely, I don't think Geno is as well known as people here like to think. I'm 29 and I literally didn't know Geno existed until I was introduced to him via Smash speculation. As far as I know, my gamer friends aren't aware of him either. Though, to be honest I kind of want to ask them next time I see each of them just to satisfy my curiosity. I still think he's popular, but he was a secondary character in one game. On top of being third party.

Like, it kind of boggles my mind that that is considered a more likely choice than a character from one of the most important JRPG series of all time. Also recall that the series is mega popular in Japan. We got our Ridley bone, whose to say they wouldn't get a bone of their own?

The thing is 1.8 million votes were cast on the ballot. So it's not like we're dealing with 10 million votes or anything like that. If that were the case I think things would be a lot harder to predict. Not only that but there are people who would have voted multiple times on different computers. Which means the number of people who actually voted on the ballot was smaller.

Taking that into consideration I can certainly see less than 1.8 million people as part of the core Smash Bros fanbase worldwide (so they would already be more likely to know about Geno than your average gamer) (and people do know about Geno, I saw videos on Youtube requesting him all the time)

Geno might not be important in the grand scheme of gaming, but he's important to Smash fans and that's arguably a lot more important when it comes to a popularity contest.

 

[DogManStar]

I'm kinda getting worried. If this character turns out not to be Geno, this might be bad for us. Also, if Verge is to be believed, there's still a Pokemon on the way as another unique newcomer. We're quickly running out of "spots".

I only think Geno might still be a good sign, because he was about as highly demanded as Isaac was overall during the ballot days, maybe a little less overall. Also, he's a character whose only real relevance is to Smash fans, which would further reinforce the idea that K. Rool had first brought upon us.

Verge didn't predict K. Rool though, so we might still be in the clear. I'm not sure what to think anymore. Everyone else here seems much more optimistic than me, and that's keeping me a bit more hopeful still.

 

[EarlTamm]

The thing is 1.8 million votes were cast on the ballot. So it's not like we're dealing with 10 million votes or anything like that. If that were the case I think things would be a lot harder to predict. Not only that but there are people who would have voted multiple times on different computers. Which means the number of people who actually voted on the ballot was smaller.

Taking that into consideration I can certainly see less than 1.8 million people as part of the core Smash Bros fanbase (so they would already be more likely to know about Geno than your average gamer) (and people do know about Geno, I saw videos on Youtube requesting him all the time)

Geno might not be important in the grand scheme of gaming, but he's important to Smash fans and that's arguably a lot more important when it comes to a popularity contest.

Plus, unlike maybe some other popular picks, Sakurai knows Geno has been requested for years.

 

[N3ON]

The thing is 1.8 million votes were cast on the ballot. So it's not like we're dealing with 10 million votes or anything like that. If that were the case I think things would be a lot harder to predict. Not only that but there are people who would have voted multiple times on different computers. Which means the number of people who actually voted on the ballot was smaller.

Taking that into consideration I can certainly see less than 1.8 million people as part of the core Smash Bros fanbase worldwide (so they would already be more likely to know about Geno than your average gamer) (and people do know about Geno, I saw videos on Youtube requesting him all the time)

Geno might not be important in the grand scheme of gaming, but he's important to Smash fans and that's arguably a lot more important when it comes to a popularity contest.

I forgot 1.8 million votes were cast. Makes the 40k on that google doc seem pretty insignificant...

 

[EarlTamm]

I forgot 1.8 million votes were cast. Makes the 40k on that google doc seem pretty insignificant...

Yeah, but it's the best look at the potential results we got.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Ridley was a character people from the west actually requested. Very few people are requesting DQ characters in Japan. Bandana Dee would be a better comparison to Ridley.

Geno's been requested for over a decade, and is someone Sakurai actually wanted at one point.

So sad square denied Geno in Brawl .
Guess Smash wasn't big enough their eyes.

 

[SirCamp]

Ridley was a character people from the west actually requested. Very few people are requesting DQ characters in Japan. Bandana Dee would be a better comparison to Ridley.

Geno's been requested for over a decade, and is someone Sakurai actually wanted at one point.

Do we actually know that? On both accounts to be honest. I'd be curious to see where you're getting the idea that DQ characters aren't requested in Japan. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't know how we would know that. And if you're going off of Source gamings attempt to collect data based on mentions on a Japanese site I don't really think that's a reliable data source.

As far as what Sakurai said, I was under the impression that he made an offhand comment about Geno making it onto a fan request poll at one point and thinking that was interesting/neat. That doesn't necessarily mean he was ever seriously considered or that Sakurai even ever wanted him in. lemme know if you're referring to something else though (or if I'm remembering that incorrectly). Would be interested to know.

Though to that end, it's interesting to me that people like to bring that up, but don't often cite similar things in favor of Banjo or Dixie. Both were planned once, and yet, particularly oddly in the case of Dixie, many overlook them even now, when I think their chances are at their highest. Like we know Microsoft is willing (theoretically anyway) and we know Sakurai wanted Banjo in at one point. Both are 3rd party often requested characters. And yet this point is brought up in favor of Geno while Banjo gets written off by many despite having the same "evidence." And yes from perusing the general discussion thread there are actually a strangely high number of people who don't even consider Dixie despite her being a first party character that we know was once considered for inclusion.

 

[DogManStar]

The size of that 1.8 million number makes me surprised that we even got K. Rool. I would have expected most votes in a sample size that big to be for characters that are more well known nowadays. When I first saw that number I lost all hope for Isaac. If Geno's making it in though, maybe all of these characters are bigger than we thought?

 

[EarlTamm]

As far as what Sakurai said, I was under the impression that he made an offhand comment about Geno making it onto a fan request poll at one point and thinking that was interesting/neat. That doesn't necessarily mean he was ever seriously considered or that Sakurai even ever wanted him in. lemme know if you're referring to something else though (or if I'm remembering that incorrectly). Would be interested to know.

No actually, he outright said he consdered him for Brawl, that he is popular, he actually got a lot of votes, and that is part of the reason he got a mii costome in Smash 4.
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016...ans-one-most-requested-smash-bros-characters/

 

[Lonodel]

one of sora's big thing is that he's not a square character he's a disney thing I'd be impressed if someone knew a Square character was getting in but didn't know if it was sora or not just based off of the fact that he IS a disney character I guess it just depends on his sources though. If this is true my bet would be on geno.

 

[StormC]

Do we actually know that? On both accounts to be honest. I'd be curious to see where you're getting the idea that DQ characters aren't requested in Japan. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't know how we would know that. And if you're going off of Source gamings attempt to collect data based on mentions on a Japanese site I don't really think that's a reliable data source.

I've browsed 2ch and Japanese Twitter/Tumblr and never once seen DQ characters be mentioned for Smash. No fanart, no posts, nothing. I'm sure it happens, but not in any way trackable by data. Just because the series is popular doesn't mean people are requesting characters from it.

Bandana Dee, on the other hand, is everywhere.

As far as what Sakurai said, I was under the impression that he made an offhand comment about Geno making it onto a fan request poll at one point and thinking that was interesting/neat. That doesn't necessarily mean he was ever seriously considered or that Sakurai even ever wanted him in. lemme know if you're referring to something else though (or if I'm remembering that incorrectly). Would be interested to know.

Though to that end, it's interesting to me that people like to bring that up, but don't often cite similar things in favor of Banjo or Dixie. Both were planned once, and yet, particularly oddly in the case of Dixie, many overlook them even now, when I think their chances are at their highest. Like we know Microsoft is willing (theoretically anyway) and we know Sakurai wanted Banjo in at one point. Both are 3rd party often requested characters. And yet this point is brought up in favor of Geno while Banjo gets written off by many despite having the same "evidence." And yes from perusing the general discussion thread there are actually a strangely high number of people who don't even consider Dixie despite her being a first party character that we know was once considered for inclusion.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

Banjo was never really seriously considered. Sakurai just said that because of legal issues, it would be basically impossible. “Incidentally, including a character from Rare in Smash would be difficult for various reasons. I know there are some people who think that Banjo & Kazooie are an obvious inclusion, but that’s unlikely for a variety of legal and financial reasons.”

Geno got much further in the consideration process. Sakurai actually genuinely wanted him. “To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.”

 

[SirCamp]

I'm not even saying it isn't Geno. I'm just surprised more people aren't open to the idea that Dragon Quest is a contender.

I've browsed 2ch and Japanese Twitter/Tumblr and never once seen DQ characters be mentioned for Smash. No fanart, no posts, nothing. I'm sure it happens, but not in any way trackable by data. Just because the series is popular doesn't mean people are requesting characters from it.

Bandana Dee, on the other hand, is everywhere.



https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

Banjo was never really seriously considered. Sakurai just said that because of legal issues, it would be basically impossible. “Incidentally, including a character from Rare in Smash would be difficult for various reasons. I know there are some people who think that Banjo & Kazooie are an obvious inclusion, but that’s unlikely for a variety of legal and financial reasons.”

Geno got much further in the consideration process. Sakurai actually genuinely wanted him. “To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.”

Huh, I stand corrected.

Well in that case I really hope we at least get a slime assist trophy or something.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I forgot 1.8 million votes were cast. Makes the 40k on that google doc seem pretty insignificant...

I feel like it's worth pointing out that on the exit poll 26.54% of the votes went to characters that got put in the "other" category. Which means they were all characters that individually had less than (presumably) 1.1% of the vote. (which is what Crash Bandicoot got, being the last notable character on the exit poll)

So it's likely that a good portion of those 1.8 million votes were going to characters without much traction behind them.

If we were to get 26.54% of 1.8 million we would end up with around 477719 potential votes that went to characters with a push behind them.

I guess what I'm saying is that we can probably discount around 400k-500k of the votes going towards random characters.

Though I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes as much sense when the number of votes is bigger....

 

[SirCamp]

I feel like it's worth pointing out that on the exit poll 26.54% of the votes went to characters that got put in the "other" category. Which means they were all characters that individually had less than (presumably) 1.1% of the vote. (which is what Crash Bandicoot got, being the last notable character on the exit poll)

So it's likely that a good portion of those 1.8 million votes were going to characters without much traction behind them.

If we were to get 26.54% of 1.8 million we would end up with around 477719 potential votes that went to characters with a push behind them.

I guess what I'm saying is that we can probably discount around 400k-500k of the votes going towards random characters.

Though I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes as much sense when the number of votes is bigger....

For that to make any sense you have to be able to extrapolate the data from the smaller fan polls that we have. Which we can't do. Because that would be based on the assumption that the polling demographic is the same, something we can't guarantee.

 

[StormC]

If K. Rool, Banjo, Isaac, and Geno all get in, will people still question the accuracy of online polls?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So sad square denied Geno in Brawl .
Guess Smash wasn't big enough their eyes.

It was just a different time back then, gaming crossovers weren't really the thing like it is now, everyone were far more protective of their IPs, Marvel vs Capcom was extremely unique because of this. Square were never going to be the ones leading the charge in this manner, it was only after Brawl (and also the success of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games) that everyone saw the huge benefits they could get from these sort of crossovers. Sega and Konami deserve a lot of credit for being willing to make the leap.

Also, since this is the first time I'm posting in this thread, I just want to wish good luck to Isaac fans. Unlike just about every other longstanding fanbase there's never been any issues or meltdowns with you guys, just honest support, I hope you're rewarded for sticking with what many have considered a losing battle.

 

[Lonodel]

If K. Rool, Banjo, Isaac, and Geno all get in, will people still question the accuracy of online polls?

they'll just start faking them to support their character

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I still feel like people forget that a good sized portion of ballot votes probably went to hundreds (maybe thousands) of (valid) characters with less requests. Even though the Smash fanbase has different fanbases for characters among them. There are still a sizeable number of people (put together) who were likely voting for smaller and less likely characters and then you should consider that young kids (and honestly some adults) are probably less likely to vote for what they see as realistic....which means votes could go to unlikely third party characters. (like I'm sure someone voted for a Worm from the Worms franchise)

Also the majority of the people voting on the ballot weren't organized. That is one thing we have to our benefit.

 

[Calane]

I like Geno fine enough, but I would really, really prefer a Dragon Quest character. Particularly Alena.

That said, I'm 100% sure it's going to be Geno. I'm okay with it, but the selfish part of me thinks DQ deserves the spot more. I'll be happy for all of the Geno supporters out there, though.

Edit: Upon thinking about it more, I somewhat regret this comment. Geno fans have been supporting him for so long that I feel that they deserve to finally get their character in Smash. I don't know if this "leak" is true, but if it is, I now actually hope it's Geno. It'd make so many people happy, and Super Mario RPG is actually a big part of my childhood seeing as how it was my very first jrpg. Seeing Geno again would be rather nostalgic, and it'd be great if it happened.

 

[EarlTamm]

Also the majority of the people voting on the ballot weren't organized. That is one thing we have to our benefit.

This reminds me, how much do you think the third parties requesting there characters affected things? Really, I think the only ones that had any big affect were the ones who did it early and did more than just tweet "Yeah, (Insert character) would be amazing in Smash, go vote for them!"

 

[Tetiro]

Considering Sakurai now has Cloud in the game, Geno is highly likely.

Look at it this way. Which one is going to be more valuable to Square Enix. A one-off character from a Nintendo franchise they can't do jack with nowadays? Or the main icon of their leading JRPG franchise?

If Sakurai succeeded in getting Cloud, there is less than 10% chance he will be getting Geno. He got a Mii costume as well in Wii U if that doesn't drive the point home.

Unless Sakurai really is limiting his number of characters, Geno is a lock.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

This reminds me, how much do you think the third parties requesting there characters affected things? Really, I think the only ones that had any big affect were the ones who did it early and did more than just tweet "Yeah, (Insert character) would be amazing in Smash, go vote for them!"

I could see it having an effect certainly....but it would also mean that the large amount of votes would be pretty central to the location where the campaign was situated.

I can only think of Shantae, is that who you're talking about?

 

[EarlTamm]

I could see it having an effect certainly....but it would also mean that the large amount of votes would be pretty central to the location where the campaign was situated.

I can only think of Shantae, is that who you're talking about?

That is who comes first to my mind, but was there any other. There must have been others who put in some effort in there calls to action, right? Seriously, I am not tying to be completely biased to Shantae, it's just that those calls to action were pretty popular back then.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The size of that 1.8 million number makes me surprised that we even got K. Rool. I would have expected most votes in a sample size that big to be for characters that are more well known nowadays. When I first saw that number I lost all hope for Isaac. If Geno's making it in though, maybe all of these characters are bigger than we thought?

I really think a big part of it is the fact that the fanbases for these characters are organized.

Not only that but I think we assume that people will always vote for characters that are realistic and band together with passionate like minded fans (like we do)....but realistically there's bound to have been thousands of people voting on the ballot for a huge selection of random characters, that when put together don't add up to anything significant.

 

[StormC]

The size of that 1.8 million number makes me surprised that we even got K. Rool. I would have expected most votes in a sample size that big to be for characters that are more well known nowadays. When I first saw that number I lost all hope for Isaac. If Geno's making it in though, maybe all of these characters are bigger than we thought?

The Kremling Kampaign was pretty instrumental for the ballot. BKupa spent years building momentum on Twitter to get a fanbase established for the character. The ballot basically fell into our lap and we attacked it with everything we had.

In general, there aren't really a ton of high profile, notable Nintendo characters left... which is why Isaac was in a good spot as well.

 

[Tetiro]

The Kremling Kampaign was pretty instrumental for the ballot. BKupa spent years building momentum on Twitter to get a fanbase established for the character. The ballot basically fell into our lap and we attacked it with everything we had.

In general, there aren't really a ton of high profile, notable Nintendo characters left... which is why Isaac was in a good spot as well.

Pretty much. Who is actually left that is still in the running?

Isaac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong...that's pretty much it.

Paper Mario could easily be turned into an Echo Fighter as could Dixie Kong. That leaves Isaac and Bandana Dee as newcomers.

And then if you look at the third party,

Banjo-Kazooie, Shantae, Geno and Rayman.

It really shows how far Sakurai has come when these eight are the big hitters remaining

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Pretty much. Who is actually left that is still in the running?

Isaac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong...that's pretty much it.

Paper Mario could easily be turned into an Echo Fighter as could Dixie Kong. That leaves Isaac and Bandana Dee as newcomers.

And then if you look at the third party,

Banjo-Kazooie, Shantae, Geno and Rayman.

It really shows how far Sakurai has come when these eight are the big hitters remaining

Agree for the most part though I don't think Paper Mario would make much sense as an echo fighter.

He's made of paper and aside from being named after Mario, Paper Mario doesn't function all that similarly to Mario in the Paper Mario games.

It would be very odd to not see Paper Mario using his hammer for example. Not to mention it would be strange not to see his paper attributes not being a part of his moveset.

 

[Tetiro]

Agree for the most part though I don't think Paper Mario would make much sense as an echo fighter.

He's made of paper and aside from being named after Mario, Paper Mario doesn't function all that similarly to Mario in the Paper Mario games.

It would be very odd to not see Paper Mario using his hammer for example. Not to mention it would be strange not to see his paper attributes not being a part of his moveset.

What I've noticed is that the term Echo Fighter does not equal a 100% relationship to the original character. The Hammer could be subbed in to replace one of Mario's other specials. (But yeh, Paper Mario is probably not happening)

 

[Sabrewulf238]

What I've noticed is that the term Echo Fighter does not equal a 100% relationship to the original character. The Hammer could be subbed in to replace one of Mario's other specials. (But yeh, Paper Mario is probably not happening)

You'd need to replace Mario's blanket move (because I don't think Paper Mario has anything similar to that) The Fludd move would be out as well. (though maybe Paper Mario could get Dr. Marios spin move?)

The only special I could see Paper Mario keeping is Marios UP B.

I'm not sure about Marios neutral. I think Paper Mario needs to use a fire flower in order to use fireballs to attack.

 

[Tetiro]

You'd need to replace Mario's blanket move (because I don't think Paper Mario has anything similar to that) The Fludd move would be out as well. (though maybe Paper Mario could get Dr. Marios spin move?)

The only special I could see Paper Mario keeping is Marios UP B.

I'm not sure about Marios neutral. I think Paper Mario needs to use a fire flower in order to use fireballs to attack.

Actually the Cape can be replaced. I remember back in the day Paper Mario could spin around like paper in the wind. Easily a cape replacement. (https://www.mariowiki.com/Spin_Dash)

Fludd can be replaced with the Mario Tornado (albeit now the Spin Smash - https://www.mariowiki.com/Spin_Smash). Remember Mario used to have the Mario Tornado as a special back in the day? (https://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_Tornado)

Fireball is replaced by Fire Flower of course as that is an Item in the Paper Mario games.

Anyone can have a moveset if enough effort is put in. That's what I learned doing Game Development

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Pretty much. Who is actually left that is still in the running?

Isaac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong...that's pretty much it.

Paper Mario could easily be turned into an Echo Fighter as could Dixie Kong. That leaves Isaac and Bandana Dee as newcomers.

And then if you look at the third party,

Banjo-Kazooie, Shantae, Geno and Rayman.

It really shows how far Sakurai has come when these eight are the big hitters remaining

Agreed with everyone on that list, though I wouldn't count out Skull Kid. Sure, online polls and his prior AT role don't look favorably on him for ballot representation. But, if Sakurai's Miiverse post on his Smash 4 AT reveal is any indication (including a disclaimer that he wasn't actually playable to not get people's hopes up), he was aware that Skull Kid had a fanbase before those polls. We've still not seen hide nor hair of him even with all the MM content we have so far, either. People have speculated he'd be a boss, but unless he's combined with Majora itself, he's too small to work unlike Rathalos and Dracula.

What I've noticed is that the term Echo Fighter does not equal a 100% relationship to the original character. The Hammer could be subbed in to replace one of Mario's other specials. (But yeh, Paper Mario is probably not happening)

Though I myself don't think a Paper Mario Echo would work, the Ice Climbers would be easy picks to clone attacks from to represent his hammer.

 

[pholtos]

Fusion Dragon for Mario Tennis Aces

 

[Tetiro]

Agreed with everyone on that list, though I wouldn't count out Skull Kid. Sure, online polls and his prior AT role don't look favorably on him for ballot representation. But, if Sakurai's Miiverse post on his Smash 4 AT reveal is any indication (including a disclaimer that he wasn't actually playable to not get people's hopes up), he was aware that Skull Kid had a fanbase before those polls. We've still not seen hide nor hair of him even with all the MM content we have so far, either. People have speculated he'd be a boss, but unless he's combined with Majora itself, he's too small to work unlike Rathalos and Dracula.



Though I myself don't think a Paper Mario Echo would work, the Ice Climbers would be easy picks to clone attacks from to represent his hammer.

I don't think Paper Mario would work in general. There's something about him and his games that require it to be JRPG rather than a fighting game.

At least Isaac has movesets that versatile between genres. Such is the danger of JRPG characters. They can be severely limited based on the moves they have in their original games.

 

[pholtos]

I've reached the middling part of the game... so this might take me a while to get through. The area between Kolima and Karagol Sea feels sorta meh to me. (And then the desert where they keep complaining about the heat over and over, but that's gonna be a while from now)

This is how you Djinn, right?

I've basically been experimenting with what gives the most PP for the time being, and sticking to solo elements seems like a good idea til I actually have a large number of Djinn.