Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[DrakeHavok]

Welp, that's that. I'm still disappointed Isaac never got a chance to shine... but at least the final dlc character wasn't someone I'd have been supremely displeased by. Actually Sora is a pretty fantastic addition imo.

At any rate, I guess it's time to move on. Thanks for the discussions everyone, as well as just for being around to show that I'm not Isaac's only supporter. Fingers crossed for the future.

 

[SonicLink125]

Just...WOW! I’m in disbelief.
I got Doom Slayer, my #1 “Impossible” MOST wanted and Sora, my #3 “Impossible” MOST wanted in Smash!
I...don’t know how to take this...
(They’re STILL not Isaac Golden Sun. Lmao.) pic.twitter.com/nPzJo2SBTZ

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 5, 2021

Still trying to process this honestly.

What a fun, crazy ride! We didn't get Isaac, but we've done a lot to get him and Golden Sun in the public eye! I hope we continue to push Isaac to get in the next Smash game. Lets not let the dream die, EVER! Also, we shall continue to push for Golden Sun's return. I am EXTREMELY confident that it will. Never let the flame die, Adepts. We will see the Golden Sun rise again!

 

[Kalaam]

Now we just have to wait 3 to 4 years for a new game on a new hardware I guess.
And then hope again.
Much less competition now at least

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

With this crazy journey now come to an end let's look to the future. We got Golden Sun trending multiple times in the past few years and have had so many fun Golden Sunday events, introduced the game to so many people and the franchise has more content in Ultimate than it ever did in the previous games when it was still relevant and boasting some of the most impressive representation for a non playable series. The Isaac for Smash and in extension Golden Sun movement has made huge progress with Ultimate and the future looks bright and ready to shine. See you guys on the other side

 

[Gioka]

I am glad it was Sora after all, I do wonder if they will finally show the full ballot results after what Sakurai said in the presentation.

Anyways, we will keep on moving towards the Golden Sun revival, Ii hope after everything that went down these 3 + years, Nintendo finally noticed us and decided GS deserves a new chance for shining. Let's try to keep the fandom alive as we have done this three years instead of going back to hiding (like we used to do after speculation cycle is over).

We will see each other around!

 

[Guynamednelson]

Much less competition now at least

uhhhhhh

What about all those other first parties that still aren't playable, which will increase over the next few years? And what about a whole ton of third parties, now that it's assumed anyone can join?

 

[ZelDan]

uhhhhhh

What about all those other first parties that still aren't playable, which will increase over the next few years? And what about a whole ton of third parties, now that it's assumed anyone can join?

Assuming the next game isn't an Ultimate Deluxe or whatever, there will definitely be cuts too, which only mucks things up much more.

Isaac could maybe (and hopefully) be playable in the next game, but yeah, I don't see him having "less competition" to worry about.

 

[Gioka]

It is assumed the next game wouldn't be as big as ultimate, so people think the number of thrid party characters would drastically diminish and go back to being more a celebration of Nintendo games than a celebration of gaming as a whole. I don't think Isaac will have less completition, but I do feel he will be in a better position by that time (considering the fan demand and everything from these past years)

 

[Guynamednelson]

It is assumed the next game wouldn't be as big as ultimate, so people think the number of thrid party characters would drastically diminish and go back to being more a celebration of Nintendo games than a celebration of gaming as a whole. I don't think Isaac will have less completition, but I do feel he will be in a better position by that time (considering the fan demand and everything from these past years)

True, Everyone is Here Again is going to be too expensive, and probably even worse in terms of the number of base game newcomers added, so Nintendo might as well not even try to make Smash 6 outsell Ultimate.

 

[Bassoonist]

Really glad it was Sora and not some 3rd party edgy first person shooter character like many were predicting.

It was never going to be Isaac. Sad, but true. I'm really happy with Sora. He has been one of my most wanted characters since the mid 2000s, but I haven't talked about him much because it's always been so unlikely, even in the era of third party character dominance.

 

[StrawHatX]

I played the very first Kingdom Hearts a long time ago and haven’t played any of the others so I don’t have a strong connection to Sora.

However, that was a hype way to end Ultimate and I’m happy for all the Sora fans out there. Nice to know who won the ballot. I figured it would be someone like Sora or Crash. I’m also excited to try out the games on Switch (sucks it’s cloud though).

Overall this game is amazing and we’ll likely never see anything like this again. Sucks Isaac wasn’t playable, but his AT returned and we got a costume and quite a few GS spirits so that’s sweet.

I don’t think we’ll get another Smash game for a long time. Like 5-6 years at least. The Switch will likely be around for 4-5 more years and I doubt the next Smash game will show up until a year or two into the next console’s life.

Hopefully one day Golden Sun will return.

 

[N3ON]

It is assumed the next game wouldn't be as big as ultimate, so people think the number of thrid party characters would drastically diminish and go back to being more a celebration of Nintendo games than a celebration of gaming as a whole. I don't think Isaac will have less completition, but I do feel he will be in a better position by that time (considering the fan demand and everything from these past years)

I don't think Nintendo is going to drastically tone down the amount of third-party newcomers, because at this point they really are some legit bread and butter for the series, but I do think the next game will have a more normal-sized base roster, and that aligns with what kind of inclusion Isaac would be anyway.

 

[Altais]

Ever since his Assist Trophy was revealed, I had pretty much lost all hope for Isaac. But it was nice to have that small sliver of hope.

In all honesty...if I could trade Byleth for Isaac, I would in a heartbeat. I really like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, but I honestly can't stand Byleth's moveset in Smash Ultimate. In mine opinion, they just tried way too hard to give him more than just a sword. As a result, his moveset, for me, just feels awkward.

 

[Kalaam]

By the way, i'm gathering some data about the DLC:

Out of curiosity and to see how well #SmashUltimate did to widen people's horizons of games, here is a poll:

Did you know about Persona or Joker before his inclusion in #SmashBrosUltimate ?

— Kalaam (@Kalaam_Nozalys) October 5, 2021

Please answer and share those polls about wether or not you knew about each character/games before they were added to Smash.

 

[Dorayaki]

To me the biggest problem is that Ultimate did'nt really add more 1st party franchises from previous consoles, aside from 3rd party, the larger proportion goes to new additons for current series.

I wouldn't mind if Issac lost to Lip or Tibby, but if he just loses to Byleth and Incineroar, that wouldn't be a very fair game IMO.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think Nintendo is going to drastically tone down the amount of third-party newcomers, because at this point they really are some legit bread and butter for the series, but I do think the next game will have a more normal-sized base roster, and that aligns with what kind of inclusion Isaac would be anyway.

Even if it's pointless to try and make a game that doesn't repeat Everyone Is Here appeal to as many as SSBU did, I'm sure there'll still be some mass appeal newcomers. We know they're definitely gonna be the majority of DLC.

 

[StrawHatX]

To me the biggest problem is that Ultimate did'nt really add more 1st party franchises from previous consoles, aside from 3rd party, the larger proportion goes to new additons for current series.

I wouldn't mind if Issac lost to Lip or Tibby, but if he just loses to Byleth and Incineroar, that wouldn't be a very fair game IMO.

At the end of the day until Nintendo resurrects Golden Sun Isaac won’t be in Smash. Pokémon always gets new characters and Three Houses is newer. It made sense to have them. Same with the Arms character.

And Camelot keeps cranking out Mario Sports games because they for sure will sell millions so I really don’t knows where we stand at this point.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And Camelot keeps cranking out Mario Sports games because they for sure will sell millions so I really don’t knows where we stand at this point.

What are they going to do for the rest of the Switch's life, then? Golf and tennis are literally the only sports they do.

...then again I was very dead-focused on Isaac BTFOing modern speculation, and that didn't work out, so I might as well say "Yep! They're gonna do sports games forever, including ones they don't usually touch! Can't wait for Camelot to do their own take on Mario Strikers!"

 

[Dorayaki]

At the end of the day until Nintendo resurrects Golden Sun Isaac won’t be in Smash. Pokémon always gets new characters and Three Houses is newer. It made sense to have them. Same with the Arms character.

Really by your logic then the first Golden Sun fighter would be the protagonist from Golden Sun Switch instead of Issac himself.

I like ARMS and Splatoon, tho. It's not quite controversial for NIntendo to promote new IPs.

 

[StrawHatX]

Really by your logic then the first Golden Sun fighter would be the protagonist from Golden Sun Switch instead of Issac himself.

I like ARMS and Splatoon, tho. It's not quite controversial for NIntendo to promote new IPs.

Unless it’s a remaster.

 

[StrawHatX]

What are they going to do for the rest of the Switch's life, then? Golf and tennis are literally the only sports they do.

...then again I was very dead-focused on Isaac BTFOing modern speculation, and that didn't work out, so I might as well say "Yep! They're gonna do sports games forever, including ones they don't usually touch! Can't wait for Camelot to do their own take on Mario Strikers!"

They’ll probably do Golf DLC for a few months. After that I’m sure they’ll find something else.

Hope I’m wrong obviously, but they haven’t mentioned anything Golden Sun in a long time and if you slap Mario’s face on something you’ll profit. So I don’t see why they (or really Nintendo as they’re the bosses) would bother doing anything else.

But with all the Isaac and Golden Sun support during Ultimate hopefully they’ll realize the demand is there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They’ll probably do Golf DLC for a few months. After that I’m sure they’ll find something else

Nintendo's developing the Golf DLC. And yes, it may be easier to get Mario to sell, but that doesn't mean Camelot will start learning how to program sports games they don't do.

 

[StrawHatX]

Nintendo's developing the Golf DLC. And yes, it may be easier to get Mario to sell, but that doesn't mean Camelot will start learning how to program sports games they don't do.

You don’t think Camelot could figure out how to make a baseball game? Or do a strikers game? I’m sure if they figured out how to make a golf or tennis game they could make it work.

Or they could always just do ANOTHER tennis game. Aces came out three years ago at this point. Since we’re all predicting the Switch to have a long life it’s not unthinkable to make a sequel to that.

I just think it’s silly to believe it’s impossible for a Camelot to make another sports game because they already made a golf and tennis game for the Switch.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You don’t think Camelot could figure out how to make a baseball game? Or do a strikers game? I’m sure if they figured out how to make a golf or tennis game they could make it work.

Or they could always just do ANOTHER tennis game. Aces came out three years ago at this point. Since we’re all predicting the Switch to have a long life it’s not unthinkable to make a sequel to that.

I just think it’s silly to believe it’s impossible for a Camelot to make another sports game because they already made a golf and tennis game for the Switch.

I'm not trying to say it's outright impossible, but that which teams do which Mario sports are mostly set in stone. Namco does baseball, for example.

 

[StrawHatX]

I'm not trying to say it's outright impossible, but that which teams do which Mario sports are mostly set in stone. Namco does baseball, for example.

I understand that, but we haven’t had a baseball or strikers game in awhile. If Camelot is done with tennis and golf it’s not unrealistic to think Nintendo asks them to work on some other Mario related game.

Hope it doesn’t happen (even though a baseball or strikers game would be cool), but I think the notion of “Camelot only makes Golden Sun, Tennis, or Golf so they can’t make anything else other than those” is ridiculous.

I’m not saying that’s what you’re suggesting, but I see a lot of people come to that conclusion. A company hasn’t worked on a certain type of game until they do.

I really do believe Golden Sun has gotten a lot of notice though by Nintendo over the last couple years so there is a real possibility they start working on a new Golden Sun next or at least give it a proper remaster to garner more attention for the series.

 

[Dorayaki]

Hope I’m wrong obviously, but they haven’t mentioned anything Golden Sun in a long time and if you slap Mario’s face on something you’ll profit. So I don’t see why they (or really Nintendo as they’re the bosses) would bother doing anything else.

My main problem with Camelot in Mario games is that they haven't tried to let the old sport pals like Gene and Plum return, those characters are the real Camelot signature. It's okay to dedicate to the Mario referenes but the OCs are part of the history.

 

[StrawHatX]

My main problem with Camelot in Mario games is that they haven't tried to let the old sport pals like Gene and Plum return, those characters are the real Camelot signature. It's okay to dedicate to the Mario referenes but the OCs are part of the history.

The only golf game I played was the N64 one and I loved Plum. Don’t remember Gene, but they would be cool to have return.

 

[Qeomash]

I really do hope the rumors of a remake/remaster are true for multiple reasons. Most of all, I'd love to replay the games in a new light with update graphics! But at this point I'm afraid our chances of Isaac to make it into the next Smash game are pretty low unless we get that remaster.

But, regardless, I'll still be there hoping Isaac gets in, because I really want to play him in Smash Bros.

 

[Bassoonist]

What are they going to do for the rest of the Switch's life, then? Golf and tennis are literally the only sports they do.

The sad truth is that they'll do what they've been doing post-Dark Dawn: Release the Mario Sports titles and then disappear until the next console comes out to release them all over again.

The Switch has been out for four and a half years now. They could easily ride out the rest of its lifespan without anything.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The sad truth is that they'll do what they've been doing post-Dark Dawn: Release the Mario Sports titles and then disappear until the next console comes out to release them all over again.

The Switch has been out for four and a half years now. They could easily ride out the rest of its lifespan without anything.

The problem there is they didn't "disappear" after Ultra Smash. They also worked on Mario Sports Superstars...and only the golf and tennis portions, which contributes to the idea that they'll only do those sports.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, the release of Camelot's next game could feasibly either be for the Switch or the successor, giving the timing of things. It'll probably be in 2023 or 2024, and that could correspond to either imo.

 

[SonicLink125]

Pyra demonstrating her "Fire Adept" abilities to Isaac. However, she still has a lot to learn as Isaac is almost noneffected by her. One day she'll do better.
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/xqkiaZdlg0

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 6, 2021

Some good shots of Isaac in the Frigate Orpheon stage with Samus & Mythra.
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/W0VzD6hDtp

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) October 7, 2021

So many pictures I've taken of Isaac since Smash Ultimate came out and I STILL have a ton that I haven't posted yet. Haha. I wonder how much longer it will be till I stop? Who knows, but I know there will be a time where I will slow down or stop. I'm not getting any younger and life gets more and more busy.

I am personally so excited for Sora & Mii Doom Slayer coming to Smash! These 2 characters were my "Never Ever", "Impossible", etc. characters. But, they were characters I would have LOVED to get in Smash in any way; be it a Spirit, Mii or fighter.
My top 3 "Impossible Most Wanted" list of characters were:
1) Doom Slayer
2) Juno/Vela (Jet Force Gemini)
3) Sora
I NEVER thought I would be able to check off anything from that list and here I am checking off Doom Slayer and Sora on the same day in the final Smash Reveal. I am in awe right now!!!

However, I will be eternally sad knowing I won't be able to play as a fully fledged Isaac fighter alongside these great characters. Honestly, had Isaac been in as a fighter already, my hype levels for Mii Doom Slayer and Sora would have been EXTREMELY higher. I really hope our push for Isaac's inclusion continues on and hopefully he'll finally get in Smash. Never let that spark fade again, Adepts!

Fortunately, this isn't the end of our "Golden" campaign. Smash Ultimate is done, but our fight to revive Golden Sun still continues. There's still a lot to be hopeful for from here on out. When GS does inevitably return, lets make sure this series stays active for many years and hopefully land Isaac as a fighter in Smash one day. The Golden Sun WILL rise again! Let's make sure it stays risen for good, Adepts.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Honestly, had Isaac been in as a fighter already, my hype levels for Mii Doom Slayer and Sora would have been EXTREMELY higher.

My case too for Sora. He was one of the few characters I wanted, but my biggest want not being here made that reveal somewhat sour. That, and KH3 story being pitiful, making me losing my unconditional love of Kingdom Hearts.

 

[TempestSurge]

Having Sora as the final DLC character was such an unexpected shock with him commonly being pegged as impossible. It was nice getting to experience the immense hype from a character reveal one last time.

Though going through the fan reactions was a bit bittersweet. Can't help but to think, wow I wonder if I'll ever get to experience that. Getting your most wanted in Smash.

So while Isaac didn't quite make it for this Smash, it's still awesome that the fan demand for Isaac was noted and Golden Sun saw much better representation in Ultimate, even getting updated moves on his assist. Still miss the Brawl hip pose though lol. Anyways most important thing is to continue to support Isaac and Golden Sun. Here's hoping to seeing a new game reveal!

 

[N3ON]

Having Sora as the final DLC character was such an unexpected shock with him commonly being pegged as impossible. It was nice getting to experience the immense hype from a character reveal one last time.

Though going through the fan reactions was a bit bittersweet. Can't help but to think, wow I wonder if I'll ever get to experience that. Getting your most wanted in Smash.

So while Isaac didn't quite make it for this Smash, it's still awesome that the fan demand for Isaac was noted and Golden Sun saw much better representation in Ultimate, even getting updated moves on his assist. Still miss the Brawl hip pose though lol. Anyways most important thing is to continue to support Isaac and Golden Sun. Here's hoping to seeing a new game reveal!

It's funny because Isaac's chances are... almost like a light-switch. Follow me for a second. Right now the switch is off, and, I know the thread won't agree with me, but he really doesn't have very good chances at the moment, despite his popularity. However, it really only takes getting one more GS game for the light-switch to flip on and for him to be very very very likely. I mean, that's his one real obstacle. He has the popularity. He has the potential. He has the established series. He just needs a new game, that's the last piece of the puzzle, and then his chances instantly go from like 0 to 100 (which is hyperbole on both ends, but you get it).

Not to invalidate continuing to push for him. Because it certainly won't hurt the odds of convincing Nintendo to finally give GS another shot.

 

[Dinoman96]

The new Golden Sun in question also probably needs to be really, really successful too for it to count.

It's worth noting that Golden Sun, on paper, was absolutely relevant by the time Sakurai locked down Smash 4's roster back in early 2012, as the latest installment had released in late 2010...and then not only did GS still not get a character, it literally lost its assist trophy.

Dark Dawn doing as poorly as it did must of been a big death blow to Isaac's chances back then.

 

[N3ON]

The new Golden Sun in question also probably needs to be really, really successful too for it to count.

It's worth noting that Golden Sun, on paper, was absolutely relevant by the time Sakurai locked down Smash 4's roster back in early 2012, as the latest installment had released in late 2010...and then not only did GS still not get a character, it literally lost its assist trophy.

Dark Dawn doing as poorly as it did must of been a big death blow to Isaac's chances back then.

I don't think so, though it may have to be a new game, not a remake. Unless that remake is very very successful. But then a new game would probably follow anyway. As the bar for first parties continues to decrease, it's at the point now where if there's a series with a highly requested lead, four total games and a new title, that should be plenty to get the character in, even if that recent game doesn't set the charts on fire.

I mean at that point, how many first-parties are really going to out-prioritize it? A whole roster's worth? I doubt it. It's not 2012 anymore.

 

[TempestSurge]

It's funny because Isaac's chances are... almost like a light-switch. Follow me for a second. Right now the switch is off, and, I know the thread won't agree with me, but he really doesn't have very good chances at the moment, despite his popularity. However, it really only takes getting one more GS game for the light-switch to flip on and for him to be very very very likely. I mean, that's his one real obstacle. He has the popularity. He has the potential. He has the established series. He just needs a new game, that's the last piece of the puzzle, and then his chances instantly go from like 0 to 100 (which is hyperbole on both ends, but you get it).

Not to invalidate continuing to push for him. Because it certainly won't hurt the odds of convincing Nintendo to finally give GS another shot.

It's interesting cause I thinking that man if they had added the same amount of new 1st party franchise reps in Ultimate as they did for Smash 4 base roster then Golden Sun would have likely been among the ones added. Of course one could say, well duh you'd say that cause you have a bias for Isaac. But I feel like we could count on one hand new first party franchises that also happen to be popular requests for Smash vs just listing every unrepresented new first party franchise since there's several.

Though as we know, Ultimate had a different goal for its Smash iteration with Everyone is Here, and thus it didn't add as many new first party franchises as previous Smash games. Just Splatoon in base and Arms for DLC and 3rd parties covered the rest. Curiously can't help but to wonder what would be the next new first party franchise that Nintendo would add, especially seeing the representation Isaac got in Ultimate for a series with no playable character, it just makes you wonder could it have been Golden Sun?

The new Golden Sun in question also probably needs to be really, really successful too for it to count.

It's worth noting that Golden Sun, on paper, was absolutely relevant by the time Sakurai locked down Smash 4's roster back in early 2012, as the latest installment had released in late 2010...and then not only did GS still not get a character, it literally lost its assist trophy.

Dark Dawn doing as poorly as it did must of been a big death blow to Isaac's chances back then.

Yes, I always felt like Smash 4 had pretty good timing with Dark Dawn releasing in 2010. That's better than the time between Dark Dawn and Ultimate, with the latter even seeing better representation. As far as Smash 4 goes, I think that's just the luck of the draw.

Punch Out's last game released in 2009 while Xenoblade and Dark Dawn released in 2010 with Little Mac and Shulk making the roster. Once again I don't think Sakurai limits himself to arbitrary conditions when it comes to selecting characters for Smash. As in Little Mac wasn't chosen because the sales of his game beat Dark Dawn and so he wins the assist promotion. In his interview about Little Mac, Sakurai shows a lot of nostalgia and respect for Little Mac's games on top of offering a playstyle that was unique to Smash.

In short, I don't believe Isaac not making it to Smash meant because it was either him or this other character and Isaac kept getting the short end of the stick. He just wasn't chosen.

 

[N3ON]

It's interesting cause I thinking that man if they had added the same amount of new 1st party franchise reps in Ultimate as they did for Smash 4 base roster then Golden Sun would have likely been among the ones added. Of course one could say, well duh you'd say that cause you have a bias for Isaac. But I feel like we could count on one hand new first party franchises that also happen to be popular requests for Smash vs just listing every unrepresented new first party franchise since there's several.

Though as we know, Ultimate had a different goal for its Smash iteration with Everyone is Here, and thus it didn't add as many new first party franchises as previous Smash games. Just Splatoon in base and Arms for DLC and 3rd parties covered the rest. Curiously can't help but to wonder what would be the next new first party franchise that Nintendo would add, especially seeing the representation Isaac got in Ultimate for a series with no playable character, it just makes you wonder could it have been Golden Sun?

I think there's a good chance of that as well. Ultimate added about a third of the typical base roster, echoes excluded. Had it been a usual amount, unless they wanted to pivot to focusing heavily on third-parties, I imagine one of those remaining, idk, dozen characters would've been Isaac. Especially since they clearly were using the ballot to shape base to no small extent.

 

[DrakeHavok]

I think there's a good chance of that as well. Ultimate added about a third of the typical base roster, echoes excluded. Had it been a usual amount, unless they wanted to pivot to focusing heavily on third-parties, I imagine one of those remaining, idk, dozen characters would've been Isaac. Especially since they clearly were using the ballot to shape base to no small extent.

Speaking of the Ballot, while we now know that Sora was the overall winner, has Nintendo seen fit to release the full polling results as well? Because I am incredibly interested in seeing what sort of data that poll yielded, not just in regards to Isaac, but other characters as well.