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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

ArkSPiTFirE

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So they might still have Sakurai say to expect a final Direct sometime in October. Either way we're coming close to the end.

I'll still throw all my eggs into the Isaac basket, but only because I really don't care if it's anyone else.
 

Billybae10K

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Hey all, it's been a while, but I'm just hopping in to wish us luck on this final day of potential Ultimate speculation. Personally, I don't think it will happen, BUT I have nothing to lose by wanting it to happen, seeing as I'm mostly content with where we're at.

Best of luck all.
 

Guynamednelson

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Hey everyone. I just wanna say that if this is the end, then it's been an amazing ride. If we don't make it, well...there's always the next one. Smash isn't gonna go anywhere.
I know a lot of characters WILL have to wait till next game to see their chances, but I never really liked that argument for older first-parties. Particularly because the next game's gonna be out after I'm in my 30s presumably, meaning I'll suck even more at the game, and I'll have to deal with new weird gameplay quirks Sakurai did because he's so afraid of the game being more than a casual party game while still making increasingly complex fighters with every installment and adding a minor thing here or there that helps the competitive scene.
 
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Xenigma

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My expectations are firmly in check for this Direct, given we have almost no reason to believe Isaac will be our final Ultimate DLC and that it's way too soon after Mario Golf to expect any other Golden Sun news. Still, it'll be somewhat comforting to bring this Smash's speculation to a close. Fingers crossed the reveal will have been worth the wait, and I sure wouldn't mind seeing any news about Re-Boot Camp or the leaked Castlevania Advance Collection while we're at it.
 

Guynamednelson

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given we have almost no reason to believe Isaac will be our final Ultimate DLC
Eh, what the hell else are they gonna do? Final reveals are never massive third-parties, this pass hasn't been kind to people who now thought literally any third-party series could join, and all the possible promo picks are either spirited or have something else going on to make their chances seem iffy.
 

Xenigma

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Eh, what the hell else are they gonna do? Final reveals are never massive third-parties, this pass hasn't been kind to people who now thought literally any third-party series could join, and all the possible promo picks are either spirited or have something else going on to make their chances seem iffy.
Without getting into the weeds about possibilities for a DLC character that may well be confirmed three hours from now, there are plenty of other reasonable arguments out there for both third-party and first-party characters that I can't in good faith assume a spirited- and assist trophied-character from a dormant series is a particularly strong contender for that final spot. I'll be ecstatic if I'm proven wrong, of course, but I'm not setting myself up for disappointment just because I think Isaac should be playable. After all, there will be plenty of time to anticipate a possible Isaac reveal once the inevitable next Smash game rolls around. ;)
 

Guynamednelson

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there are plenty of other reasonable arguments out there for both third-party and first-party characters
Most of those "reasonable" arguments have to ignore factors against those characters that are bigger than any three year old, poorly made item whose userbase is mostly gone now.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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Pretty good direct! So many older games coming to the sWitch in some way. The N64 and Genesis NSO was a big susporise (at least the Sega stuff!) and a good selection. With all these ports and remakes its getting glaring how left out Golden Sun is. So I'm just hoping its on production now and we'll hear something in a year or two.

Also fingers crossed for the Smash presentation. It smells like Nintendo character to me, so I'm hopeful.
 

Guynamednelson

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Most of those "reasonable" arguments have to ignore factors against those characters that are bigger than any three year old, poorly made item whose userbase is mostly gone now.
And now those "reasonable" arguments for various third-parties have another issue: Mr. Sakurai Presents (currently unknown character) presentations tend to NOT be big. And in today's Smash climate, most third parties are automatically bigger than most first parties just because hype from Nintendo not owning them.
 

THE 6r

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And now those "reasonable" arguments for various third-parties have another issue: Mr. Sakurai Presents (currently unknown character) presentations tend to NOT be big. And in today's Smash climate, most third parties are automatically bigger than most first parties just because hype from Nintendo not owning them.
The issue there comes with Steve, who was confirmed in a non-direct presentation.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Something interesting from the speculation thread.
The fact that this reveal is at 10AM EST tells me this is a character that doesn't have primarily Western or Worldwide appeal. Rough American times:

Joker: Revealed in the evening, don't remember the exact time..
Hero: Presentation at 9AM EST.
Banjo and Kazooie: Presentation at 6:30PM EST.
Terry: Presentation at 10AM EST.
Byleth: Presentation at 10AM EST.
Min Min: Presentation at 10AM EST.
Steve: This is the one that breaks the mold since it was at 10:30AM EST, but only because it was meant to segueway into Minecraft con or whatever that is called.
Sephiroth: Presentation at 5PM EST.
Pyra/Mythra: Presentation at 10AM EST.
Kazuya: Presentation at 10AM EST.

EDIT: Fixed some timestamps.
Not only that, but The Kids and Teens have School around the time this Presentation is supposed to be happening, in North America at least

I believe this time fits Europe the best. I'm in Central time, so this presentation will start at 9 for me. Europe is 7 Hours ahead of me, and Japan is 14. This would put the time at about 4PM and 11PM for Europe and Japan respectfully.

In any case, Remember that Steve was actually revealed at the same timeframe this October 5th Presentation is supposed to take place, so to be honest, I'm not sure how much info we can gather from this, since I think it's well agreed that Steve was the biggest character reveal in the game.

I think the the more telling things about the character rather than the time would be them waiting to a Separate Presentation to reveal them, when the Direct was right here, and of course being the Last Fighter.
 

Pinguino21v

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Also fingers crossed for the Smash presentation. It smells like Nintendo character to me, so I'm hopeful.
And now those "reasonable" arguments for various third-parties have another issue: Mr. Sakurai Presents (currently unknown character) presentations tend to NOT be big. And in today's Smash climate, most third parties are automatically bigger than most first parties just because hype from Nintendo not owning them.
And, yet, there are a lot of people still expecting Master Chief or other crap on r/smashbros. That's insane how these people are blinded.

The issue there comes with Steve, who was confirmed in a non-direct presentation.
But it was in the middle of a Covid year, with no E3. Would it have been a normal year, he would have been revealed at E3, I'm sure.
 

True Blue Warrior

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And, yet, there are a lot of people still expecting Master Chief or other crap on r/smashbros. That's insane how these people are blinded.
While I am not going to say that Master Chief is impossible at this point, it would be strange not to have him at E3. We’ve never had a clearly much bigger third-party character follow the third-party character shown at E3 in a Smash or Nintendo Direct. No, Cloud doesn’t count, since
SF2 not only made Avengers Endgame level of money at the arcades but had a lot of cultural impact. See this, this, this, this and this. Ryu’s moves, Shoryuken, Hadoken and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku and Ryu himself codified the very image of a fighting game character. So the idea that Cloud is “clearly a bigger character than Ryu” doesn’t hold up.
 

Guynamednelson

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While I am not going to say that Master Chief is impossible at this point
But...wouldn't they WANT a bunch of people to see his reveal live? Announcing a solo presentation 2 weeks ahead of time is enough time for those not interested in Smash enough to forget they announced a final Sakurai presentation. Until it comes out and Smash fans whine it's not third-party of course.
 
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N3ON

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Something interesting from the speculation thread.
Considering once 7am PT/10am ET got locked in with Terry, the only exceptions were those that lead into something (Minecon or Sephiroth challenge - also consider Banjo's was immediately following a Direct), which seems more to imply that 7am/10am just became their standard time after Hero/Banjo for those that weren't tied to something else.

Also fwiw while Steve's showcase may have been half an hour later, the Steve reveal was, you guessed it, 7am/10am. It really just seems like that's their status quo.
 

Gioka

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So we all live to die another day. I am a firm believer that the final character will most probably be a first party character. I am completely clueless regarding who, though. It could be Waluigi, it could be Isaac. It could be Bandana Waddle Dee tying along the new Kirby game, it could be Porky who has been MIA for all of Ultimate... There is plenty of options in the first party realm. It is hard to tell, but either way, it has been quite the ride. I am grateful for this community and how we have handled the blows time and time again and still manage things like getting Isaac to win polls and Golden Sunday, what a great group of fans
 

True Blue Warrior

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So we all live to die another day. I am a firm believer that the final character will most probably be a first party character. I am completely clueless regarding who, though. It could be Waluigi, it could be Isaac. It could be Bandana Waddle Dee tying along the new Kirby game, it could be Porky who has been MIA for all of Ultimate... There is plenty of options in the first party realm. It is hard to tell, but either way, it has been quite the ride. I am grateful for this community and how we have handled the blows time and time again and still manage things like getting Isaac to win polls and Golden Sunday, what a great group of fans
It is interesting to me that the only DLC characters that have been revealed in a Presentation were Nintendo ones.

Considering once 7am PT/10am ET got locked in with Terry, the only exceptions were those that lead into something (Minecon or Sephiroth challenge - also consider Banjo's was immediately following a Direct), which seems more to imply that 7am/10am just became their standard time after Hero/Banjo for those that weren't tied to something else.

Also fwiw while Steve's showcase may have been half an hour later, the Steve reveal was, you guessed it, 7am/10am. It really just seems like that's their status quo.
That is a very fair point. I do wonder why the final character wasn't delayed until TGA considering it is only around 2 months away from October 5. Ah well, who cares.
 

Nazyrus

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That is a very fair point. I do wonder why the final character wasn't delayed until TGA considering it is only around 2 months away from October 5. Ah well, who cares.
Because it's not gonna be a big 3rd party character, unlike everyone else seems to be assuming it / predicting it to be.
Also with Sakurai making his own presentation called Sakurai Presents, basically meant he stopped relying on having big events or directs to reveal his characters as soon as they are done. They were never going to make us wait 6 freaking months for a final reveal anyway, lol, this character was easily already done by late August, considering he records these presentations of his a month prior from airing them as we have seen.
 

Diddy Kong

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So we all live to die another day. I am a firm believer that the final character will most probably be a first party character. I am completely clueless regarding who, though. It could be Waluigi, it could be Isaac. It could be Bandana Waddle Dee tying along the new Kirby game, it could be Porky who has been MIA for all of Ultimate... There is plenty of options in the first party realm. It is hard to tell, but either way, it has been quite the ride. I am grateful for this community and how we have handled the blows time and time again and still manage things like getting Isaac to win polls and Golden Sunday, what a great group of fans
I'm with you on this. For me, am currently not too sure what to expect, but I do expect a first party character too. To me it's a toss up between a Zelda character, a Pokemon, and Isaac. All would make a lot of sense retrospectively, and this Fighters Pass so far has been all about reconsidered ideas.
 

Guynamednelson

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I'm with you on this. For me, am currently not too sure what to expect, but I do expect a first party character too. To me it's a toss up between a Zelda character, a Pokemon, and Isaac. All would make a lot of sense retrospectively, and this Fighters Pass so far has been all about reconsidered ideas.
I was on my own "it could still be Eevee!" train, but that, like any other Pokemon or third-party, is something Nintendo should really hope outsiders see. If the presentation is as far away from the announcement as it is, that isn't a good sign that it's someone well-known. Which is perfect for Isaac in 2021.
 

THE 6r

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I continue to maintain my position that it will be an SMT protagonist of some sort (Demi-fiend or Nahobino) due to how hard Nintendo is pushing the game.

HOWEVER, I still hope it's Isaac regardless (though I would be happy either way as I love both series.)
 
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Guynamednelson

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due to how hard Nintendo is pushing the game.
They weren't pushing it that hard in the Western version of the last Direct. Compare DQXIS, which is something they definitely wanted Westerners to play despite a lack of interest in DQ in the West.
 
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NessAtc.

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The important thing here is that FP11 not only was skipped over past the Direct, but they also chose not to reveal it at E3. If it was revealing in the fall timeline anyway, if it was something sufficiently big/relevant to the E3 showcase, that's plenty of justification to reveal it at E3, since it's not much more of a gap than Banjo presented.

The reason why they're doing this presents as they are is because they want to reveal the character as close to release as possible. Which is a far cry compared to when they sync up these events with reveals for even something like ARMS or Pyra and Mythra. Even if Min Min was revealed proper in a presents, they still opted to pull the curtain on it being an ARMS character in that direct. So this is the only time they've outright skipped revealing in a direct in favour of revealing closer to release. The only thing comparable to this is the Smash Direct in August 2018.
 
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ArkSPiTFirE

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I'm with you on this. For me, am currently not too sure what to expect, but I do expect a first party character too. To me it's a toss up between a Zelda character, a Pokemon, and Isaac. All would make a lot of sense retrospectively, and this Fighters Pass so far has been all about reconsidered ideas.
Yeah same! Those three are the only ones I can viably think of. Beyond that there's Advance Wars or Kirby reps but I think they're less likely. I'm basically thinking anything released 2018 or after is probably not getting considered, because it's hard to plan and design a character that's halfway through development. The exception being Pokémon where Sakurai can go off concept art apparently.

It's still hard to settle on a character though. Zelda's best side characters are all assist trophies, so we're left with BotW Champions or Age of Calamity fighters. Eh? Possible, but I wouldn't be that psyched. I'm only really going off the fact that Ultimate Link is a BotW remodel, so it barely counts as a new Zelda rep, even though that's what it's meant to be.

Pokémon absolutely shouldn't be in this position. They've already had a rep in Ultimate. Granted there's no new stage, but we haven't seen a double dip of a franchise yet, outside of echos. That and being a 2018 game with a spirit event ought to strike it off, but for some reason I just can't rule it out completely, and I hate it. Still 90% sure it won't be though.

Golden Sun isn't really in a good position either, but Isaac has a chance with fan demand alone. If the ballot wasn't enough, the build up to Ultimate should be, and the reaction after the trophy reveal would also tip them off. It's just a case on whether they think Isaac matters, right now in Ultimate. I'm sure it's no feathers off their back if he just gets considered for Smash 6, as much as it pains the rest of us x)
 

SirCamp

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Some of you are, uh, very optimistic considering the circumstances lol

Don't get me wrong I really wanna see Isaac too, but I wouldn't count on it. That said, anything can happen I suppose. And frankly I have no idea who it could be, so who knows.
 

Guynamednelson

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Some of you are, uh, very optimistic considering the circumstances lol

Don't get me wrong I really wanna see Isaac too, but I wouldn't count on it. That said, anything can happen I suppose. And frankly I have no idea who it could be, so who knows.
I mean, it's better to dig deep for reasons WHY it might be Isaac then just give up and default to Cinderace or something. That's what speculation is, isn't it?
 

SirCamp

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I mean, it's better to dig deep for reasons WHY it might be Isaac then just give up and default to Cinderace or something. That's what speculation is, isn't it?
I mean speculating doesn't change reality. It will just change your (and perhaps other's) perception. But I'd rather be very pleasantly surprised, then majorly let down if that makes sense. Note that I don't think he's impossible or anything, I just said I wouldn't count on it.
 

Pinguino21v

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Zelda's best side characters are all assist trophies
Is it supposed to be a con to them? Because I can think of another character well-known to this thread who is also an AT...
Zelda rep would probably be Impa anyway. Impa's depiction from one of the Hyrule Warriors games. I don't see them taking one of the four champions, it wouldn't be fair. Or maybe could it be a Guardian?

Some of you are, uh, very optimistic considering the circumstances lol

Don't get me wrong I really wanna see Isaac too, but I wouldn't count on it. That said, anything can happen I suppose. And frankly I have no idea who it could be, so who knows.
It is the best chance we got in a long time, considering the strong thematic of "second chance" of this pass, and the circumstances of this particular presentation, leading to think it's a first party. I will still go in this Direct expecting a Zelda rep but I must admit I still have true hope for Isaac.

After all, ARMS got upgraded, Xenoblade 2 got upgraded, even Shantae got upgraded. I can see Isaac getting upgraded too after all of that.

But what's bandwagoned the most isn't guaranteed to get in either, and FP2 has been a huge lesson in that.
The bandwagon for a lot of third-parties is quite recent, it changed nothing for them in this pass indeed. There are only three third-party characters I can see who have a long term bandwagon: mainly Sora, somewhat Phoenix Wright, and Geno but he is out. Rayman seems to not be big enough, and everything else is just too recent (and too much westerny for a lot of them I also think).
 

True Blue Warrior

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I mean, it's better to dig deep for reasons WHY it might be Isaac then just give up and default to Cinderace or something. That's what speculation is, isn't it?
Well I don’t think we are getting a Gen 8 Pokemon due to the spirit event. Another factor is that it makes no sense to not save the legendaries and the starter Pokemon for a hypothetical Sword & Shield Challenger Pack since they are the most iconic Mon of that Gen.
 
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