Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[clearandsweet]

Yeah these vague "rumors" that are carefully worded to be as ambiguous as possible from wannabee famous Twitter leakers and are always just the same type of people sending Discord DMs to each other... they all mean little and less. I'm just excited that even the sketch wannabee leakers said Golden Sun (even if they'll walk it back, no doubt).

Personally, if the rumored return-to-form Paper Mario becomes true, it will just as much of a major win as Golden Sun returning for me.

I mean yes, but also no. Love me some TTYD, gotta love that writing, would be _very_ excited to see Paper Mario in Smash if that would ever happen. But who's making a classic Paper Mario? IS? I know they're a big studio, but give me Advance Wars first. And Miyamoto's gonna be hands off? Isn't that just too much what we want to hear instead of something that would actually happen?

 

[Sentinel07]

Yeah these vague "rumors" that are carefully worded to be as ambiguous as possible from wannabee famous Twitter leakers and are always just the same type of people sending Discord DMs to each other... they all mean little and less. I'm just excited that even the sketch wannabee leakers said Golden Sun (even if they'll walk it back, no doubt).



I mean yes, but also no. Love me some TTYD, gotta love that writing, would be _very_ excited to see Paper Mario in Smash if that would ever happen. But who's making a classic Paper Mario? IS? I know they're a big studio, but give me Advance Wars first. And Miyamoto's gonna be hands off? Isn't that just too much what we want to hear instead of something that would actually happen?

I don't think it's that unreasonable. It is true that Miyamoto has been more hands off with Mario in general of late. Pretty sure he wasn't very influential with Mario Odyssey.

 

[ZelDan]

I don't even really recall who this marko guy is.

So yeah, gonna take this with a grain of salt.

 

[Hydewell]

If only it wasn't markomaro saying that, it'd be quite encouraging, lol.

The RPG part was said by Emily some time ago. Again, he's only stealing that info.
But probably that "RPG niche games" will be probably Ys and Trail of Cold Steel.
Anyways, an insider from ERA has said some minutes ago there'll be two directs this month, one of them being an Animal Crossing direct. So, we'll see if Camelot finally reveals its project in the other direct.

 

[Cadillac]

I really like how this thread is active, despite Isaac being an Assist Trophy.
The other support thread I'm part of is... well, let's say, it's less than active and almost nobody is there when I want to talk about the character.

 

[Kalaam]

We try our best to keep the discussion going and Isaac relevant in discussion. That's how Ridley, K.Rool and Banjo got in

 

[Diddy Kong]

They'd use the sword they've already rendered for the mii costume. Most of his stuff would be reused from both the assist and the mii costume, so don't expect very many deviations in terms of model.

Am thinking it'll be this yes.

 

[Kalaam]

We could see some alterations, especially if Isaac got a redesign in a Golden Sun Remake.
I think they'd touch up some stuff, like better scarf physic and rigging, change his hair and face ofc. For the sword I could see it getting a bit more details. The mii sword feels very plastic-like to me

 

[Diddy Kong]

The armour looks great, and the hair as well. Some things are just lacking, as his face and especially his sword. I mean, what is that thing really? It's way to basic, too generic. I mean, Robin also doesn't really have a staple weapon in FE Awakening (outside of Thunder magic times), if they could pick a Levin Sword as the main weapon for Robin, Isaac could get something good as well.

 

[Cadillac]

I said this before, but I really wonder what kind of sword will Isaac get in Smash.
His sword is always sheathed in promotional artworks, so any sword from the game is possible.
For example, if it's Excalibur or Gaia Blade, then Legend or Titan Blade might be his neutral B.
If it's Sol Blade, Meggido might be his Final Smash.

 

[Kalaam]

There is one piece of artwork where Isaac has his sword in hand, and it's kinda low res.
Plus, on artworks Isaac's sword seems rather short, it's clearly a 1 handed sword. But in game he always wields it two handed, be it a light or long blade.
I think they'd probably modernize it a bit, to make it more like the one he has on DD's artwork, like Matthew's.

 

[Cadillac]

There is one piece of artwork where Isaac has his sword in hand, and it's kinda low res.
Plus, on artworks Isaac's sword seems rather short, it's clearly a 1 handed sword. But in game he always wields it two handed, be it a light or long blade.
I think they'd probably modernize it a bit, to make it more like the one he has on DD's artwork, like Matthew's.

Wait really? Can you show me the picture?

 

[Kalaam]

Here you go. As you can see it's rather small. (If the image doesn't show up, here it is.
I think it's likely we'll get a little rework closer to this one:

Spoiler: Matthew's sword

If it doesn't appear either: here is matthew's sword.

 

[Cadillac]

Here you go. As you can see it's rather small. (If the image doesn't show up, here it is.
I think it's likely we'll get a little rework closer to this one:

Spoiler: Matthew's sword

If it doesn't appear either: here is matthew's sword.

I see.
That sword Isaac is holding in the artwork seems to be the sword of the mii costume.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Weapon unleashes could also be a potential gimmick for Isaac..anyone ever thought about how that would work? Do F Smash and unleash super powerful attack when sword shines bright with a white light or something?

 

[Kalaam]

I'm iffy about unleashes. Those are supposed to be random, having it for a final smash is fine but the core gameplay of golden sun doesn't really rely on them. It would be like Hero critical strikes but with added properties, I think it would be a mess. Plus it usually depend of the sword, and Isaac would probably use only 1. And he isn't supposed to be a weapon master using tons of different weapons to get the job done. That'd be the Monster Hunter.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Since really psynergy would be the main hook of his moveset his sword having a generic design would hardly matter. Although really if they were going to give him a more iconic weapon from the Golden Sun games Sol Blade or Gaia Blade are the contenders especially if an unleash mechanic is present

 

[Xenigma]

Honestly, I just don't feel like unleashes fit in well. Psynergy would presumably make up the bulk of his moveset, and a summon like Judgment feel likes the obvious Final Smash. You could throw one in as a smash or something, but making a move always unleash doesn't really fit in with the spirit of the original mechanic, nor do I feel like he wants RNG as a gimmick when G&W's side-B and Hero's critical strikes already exist. Assuming a gimmick is necessary, I think they would be better suited looking at Djinn or something like that.

 

[Organization XIII]

I'm iffy about unleashes. Those are supposed to be random, having it for a final smash is fine but the core gameplay of golden sun doesn't really rely on them. It would be like Hero critical strikes but with added properties, I think it would be a mess. Plus it usually depend of the sword, and Isaac would probably use only 1. And he isn't supposed to be a weapon master using tons of different weapons to get the job done. That'd be the Monster Hunter.

Since Sakurai likes to play with accuracy when it comes to RPG characters I always thought it would be cool to have unleashes be Isaac's fully charged smash attacks.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Wow, I just got freely insulted by a Geno fan in the Geno thread while I was kind in my answer to remind him Isaac exists. If that doesn't confirm my feelings about Geno's fanbase... And that dude even claims to be fan of Isaac, but I don't want him in my community. Let's leave it at that.

I'm glad to be in this fanbase and not his. You people are great.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Idea for a trailer.
If it's just Isaac then his reveal trailer will be simple, showing Isaac's movesets and stuff.

But if it's a double reveal and Isaac is revealed after the first fighter, then it could be like:
The first fighter's trailer plays, and after the trailer they get all pumped up/congratulated etc.
Then all of a sudden, the ground starts trembling.

If the newcomer is introduced with a hazard character that attacks fighters, then I can imagine the newcomer fighting the hazard when suddenly a giant hand grabs and yeets the hazard character to the horizon.

Recently I had an idea for an Isaac reveal trailer, although I'm not sure if it's feasible since I don't think we've ever had a newcomer trailer with Pokemon in it that wasn't for a Pokemon newcomer.

Pokemon Trainer (Red) is exploring the Galar region and walking along a route before they're challenged to a battle by a shadowy figure who first throws out a Scorbunny and then a Drizzile. Then for their third Pokemon you're expecting them to throw a pokeball with Rillaboom in it....but the figure just points and Flint rushes into battle, revealing Isaac as the "trainer" and next newcomer to Smash.

It's kinda mean because it heavily hints at Galar Trainer becoming playable though.

On the other hand it could be good for a duel reveal of Isaac and Galar Pokemon Trainer. (or just Rillaboom I guess)

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

These unused creature designs look really cool. Maybe they can add them in a remake hehe

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Cadillac]

If unleashes are part of of Isaac's gimmick then...
If down b is Djinn change between 4 djinns of different elements, then it could work like this:
Neutral b is a powerful psynergy attack that changes upon his down b djinn. Also he can use unleash attack when he fills up a meter, gained by attacking enemies or taking hits only.
Then, when he uses it, the unleash also changes depending on the last djinn you used in the down b.
Venus(default) is Ragnarok to Titan Blade.
Mars is Supernova to Purgatory.
Jupiter is Thunderhead to Legend.
Mercury is Plume Edge to Lethe Albion/Rising Dragon.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

If unleashes are part of of Isaac's gimmick then...
If down b is Djinn change between 4 djinns of different elements, then it could work like this:
Neutral b is an unleash attack can only be used when he fills up a meter, gained by attacking enemies or taking hits only.
Then, when he uses it, the unleash changes depending on the last djinn you used in the down b.
Venus(default) is Titan Blade.
Mars is Purgatory.
Jupiter is Legend.
Mercury is Lethe Albion/Rising Dragon.

Unleashes are more based on specific weapon crits than djinn though

 

[Megadoomer]

Wow, I just got freely insulted by a Geno fan in the Geno thread while I was kind in my answer to remind him Isaac exists. If that doesn't confirm my feelings about Geno's fanbase... And that dude even claims to be fan of Isaac, but I don't want him in my community.

I'm glad to be in this fanbase and not his. You people are great.

Don't try to stir up conflicts between fanbases, please, and don't generalize entire fanbases based on the actions of one person.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I will just chime in and say how awesome it is that we are still all chatting away about how much we love this game and how even after nearly a year and a half of having that disappointment, we are all supporting and making Nintendo hear our voices more than ever before. It really is kinda inspiring and I think we are getting the ultimate payoff very soon. (I will be holding my custom Djinn and Isaac Cosplay for the upcoming February Direct when my College dorm does the viewing party!)

 

[NessAtc.]

Wow, I just got freely insulted by a Geno fan in the Geno thread while I was kind in my answer to remind him Isaac exists.

I also can't say I tolerate just coming into this thread to complain about users from other threads. Keep that discussion there and this discussion here.

 

[Billybae10K]

Agreed with the above messages, this should be a place of positivity and complaining about other threads will only promote negativity and will give people a generalized bad view of the community here - Let's try and keep it positive, Smash is just a game at the end of the day.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If unleashes are part of of Isaac's gimmick then...
If down b is Djinn change between 4 djinns of different elements, then it could work like this:
Neutral b is a powerful psynergy attack that changes upon his down b djinn. Also he can use unleash attack when he fills up a meter, gained by attacking enemies or taking hits only.
Then, when he uses it, the unleash also changes depending on the last djinn you used in the down b.
Venus(default) is Ragnarok to Titan Blade.
Mars is Supernova to Purgatory.
Jupiter is Thunderhead to Legend.
Mercury is Plume Edge to Lethe Albion/Rising Dragon.

My problem with the elemental switch mechanic is that some moves will simply become more useful than others, and if some strategies of using Psynergy become staple in Isaac's overall gameplay, he'll become predictable. Also maybe unbalanced, because, well look at how Hero turned out. I think of think that Isaac would play quite a bit like a more balanced Hero however. Maybe a bit slower though, and of course ground based because of Earth Psynergy.

Neutral B is 100% gonna be Move however, or Side B. That am quite sure of. Down B is probably gonna be something like Gaia or Earthquake. It just seems a standard move to really represent the Earth element well. Up B could be Teleport or Hover? Or Growth with a tether vine? Then the remaining Special of my choice would be Ragnarok with his kind of a ranged Roy Neutral B, maybe slightly armoured?

Then the weapon unleash, I'd choose Titan Blade because , well, it's Isaac's most "staple" weapon that isn't hugely overpowering like the Sol Blade and Megido. Or if they can town Megido down, that's my choice.

Jab combo also could be fun. Imagine Isaac using his hand Psynergy to cast Slap one or two times, and end the jab combo with Force. A powerful ranged, but slower jab. Think frame 6 or 7. Isaac wouldn't have too many good "get off me" moves outside maybe D Tilt or F Tilt which could be simple sword swipes. We WANT simple sword swipes, because they are effective in Smash. Byleth for example would've been a total disaster without them.

 

[Kalaam]

I think changing element can work, because they'll have their strength and weaknesses. Most attacks will probably be the same, save for visual changes and a few different properties (say that side B is Quake/Flare/Ray/Frost, Quake launches straight up, Flare has little knockback but higher damage and set ablaze, Ray has a longer lasting hitbox with high hitstun value and Frost can cause sliping or does a second hit when breaking).
The biggest change could be on the recoveries. I easily see Jupiter one being one of the best recoveries in the game, but predictable (I think Hover would be perfect, Isaac walking on the spot in the air for 1-2 seconds, giving him back his double jump at the end of it) while others have other uses (Mars could be Planet Diver, quite aggressive and not bad for low recoveries, Venus could be Spire, working kinda like Robin's but without directionnal aiming and meteor effect, Mercury could be a bubble, a multihop that burst when hit by an attack)

Tbh I want element swap more than weapon unleashes x)
You compared that to Hero, and it's a fair comparison actually just that Isaac would have complete control over it, while hero is random (which is compensated by thespells being super strong)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am not even sure if the elements are even gonna be a theme. Not even Earth. What if they based Isaac solely on overworld Psynergy? Like they currently do with his Assist Trophy.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Am not even sure if the elements are even gonna be a theme. Not even Earth. What if they based Isaac solely on overworld Psynergy? Like they currently do with his Assist Trophy.

That would be a pretty poor representation of him. I'd like to think that if Sakurai were to include him, he'd give the GS games a playthrough to actually get a feel of how Isaac would play.

 

[Kalaam]

Isaac is way more than the "hand guy" plus they already show all of hand psynergies in his AT, they wouldn't just keep that and give him a few sword strikes and call it a day. They'd want to go further, to make it stand out from the AT.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah it's not that I'm thinking that will happen. Am just basing it off his Assist Trophy. Though it's not a great example because playable Dark Samus is strangely enough less unique than AT Dark Samus. Little Mac however is quite similar in playable status and his Brawl AT. But to take it further, Ridley as a boss was also way different than the Ridley we have now.

Anyway, am just making an argument for the sake of an argument. Am not expecting it honestly. I expect Move, Ragnarok and Earthquake. And a sword leap for F Smash. The rest I wouldn't dare to call.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Little Mac however is quite similar in playable status and his Brawl AT.

However, the AT didn't showcase super abilites Mac can build up like the KO meter, so that's a point for the fighter.

 

[Kalaam]

Dark samus being a a doppelganger of samus makes sense that she wouldn't be very different in term of moveset (though she could have had a few unique moves, like phazon tentacles from the ground for the down smash), Little Mac being a boxer, his AT was already good at showing what he can do. He boxes.
Ridley so far is the one with the most changes.
Since Isaac has way more mechanics in his games than L.Mac, I think we can expect more than just hand psynergy. It would be like having Link only have his boomerang because it's a versatile tool that is often used in the games.

 

[NessAtc.]

Yeah it's not that I'm thinking that will happen. Am just basing it off his Assist Trophy. Though it's not a great example because playable Dark Samus is strangely enough less unique than AT Dark Samus. Little Mac however is quite similar in playable status and his Brawl AT. But to take it further, Ridley as a boss was also way different than the Ridley we have now.

Anyway, am just making an argument for the sake of an argument. Am not expecting it honestly. I expect Move, Ragnarok and Earthquake. And a sword leap for F Smash. The rest I wouldn't dare to call.

Dark Samus is an echo fighter, they automatically couldn't make it more different from regular Samus because they didn't have the time to commit to that

 

[N3ON]

A cloned moveset has never been the extent of a character's capabilities. Clones are chosen because they could make for feasible clones, not because they couldn't offer anything more unique than an existing moveset.

At the point in development during which they are chosen, Sakurai is no longer in the process of creating original movesets. He's just looking for padding.

A clone is a limited role. So is an AT. So is a boss. It would be disingenuous to judge a characters' potential based on a role which was never meant to convey the breadth of the character.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I mean Little Mac is just a boxer, of course both his assist trophy and playable form would bare a lot of similarites. If you're making a full fledged moveset for Isaac they'd actually study the games and see what his potential really is, it's silly to believe that utility psynergy would make up most of his moveset. Felix's spirit battle even has earthquakes so they are very aware what a Venus Adept is capable of. Isabelle as an assist just threw fruit and in her moveset she has a bunch of new moves like the fishing rod. Dark Samus doesn't count because she is an echo that can't stray too far from the base Samus moveset.

 

[Kalaam]

Dark Samus likely will get a more developped moveset in the next game, if she is kept in (which I think she will, since there is very few Metroid characters). Most echoes that are kept probably will.