Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Cadillac]

I played Byleth, and I hit down b two times on the same person, on the same stock and killed them.
I love it. I'm gonna play my main but I could play Byleth time to time.

 

[clearandsweet]

After a few hours of Byleth, I could see myself playing them a bit more. I need to learn to be patient, and a slow character helps that.

I'm just so vastly unimpressed at this selection, and I even liked Three Houses. I have a huge feeling Byleth is going to be forgotten competitively and casually pretty darn quickly, just like Corrin.

Just, like, what a waste of time and effort by so many people... Oh well someday we'll be vindicated. Someday.

 

[Undella2]

Actually, as was kinda said near the end of the last page by Pinguino, it is interesting how Isaac is nearly never brought up in non-GS/Assist Alliance-circles nowadays in the speculation scene.

Like, I'll go watch some "who do I want the most" or "who is the most likely" list a person made on youtube, and it's nearly always some combination of Waluigi, Geno, Sora and/or Crash, a *wacky* pick, and a handful of others.

Is Isaac just, kinda, not cared about much by those outside of his fanbase, or do those making youtube speculation/wish lists purposely list all of the super-"trendy" characters for the views/clicks?

I dunno, it's just something that's been, well, bothering me as of late.

 

[Guynamednelson]

purposely list all of the super-"trendy" characters for the views/clicks?

Exactly. Disregard the fact that we didn't get various characters that absolutely HAD to be on this pass like Crash, Doom Slayer, Hayabusa, acquire views.

This isn't to say they are bad choices, hell I do want Doom Slayer, but a lot of choices that, again, absolutely have to be in apparently, are too focused on the general US/EU gaming audience when the Fighters Pass was more diverse, and Joker was really the only character for such an audience (although he does appeal to Japan as well).

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Actually, as was kinda said near the end of the last page by Pinguino, it is interesting how Isaac is nearly never brought up in non-GS/Assist Alliance-circles nowadays in the speculation scene.

Like, I'll go watch some "who do I want the most" or "who is the most likely" list a person made on youtube, and it's nearly always some combination of Waluigi, Geno, Sora and/or Crash, a *wacky* pick, and a handful of others.

Is Isaac just, kinda, not cared about much by those outside of his fanbase, or do those making youtube speculation/wish lists purposely list all of the super-"trendy" characters for the views/clicks?

I dunno, it's just something that's been, well, bothering me as of late.

People pretty much just expect Waluigi to be the only promotion and no one else having close to a shot. A lot of AT characters as well are stuck in that bubble but out of all of them Isaac still gets some of the most discussion for a non Waluigi assist trophy. If a Golden Sun remake or sequel is announced soon people would be shifting their gears pretty quick, right now it's just speculation until it gets a reveal or not.

 

[Pinguino21v]

but a lot of choices that, again, absolutely have to be in apparently, are too focused on the general US/EU gaming audience

That's what irks me the most about the speculation scene in the english speaking boards. It's full of western, especially americans, and their bias toward western picks like Doom Slayer and Master Chief is strong; meanwhile I keep thinking that western picks are really really not that obvious and probably not happening for most of them. Especially when there are western characters that have some appeal for the japanese audience, like Crash and Steve, who would have the priority.

Actually, as was kinda said near the end of the last page by Pinguino, it is interesting how Isaac is nearly never brought up in non-GS/Assist Alliance-circles nowadays in the speculation scene.

Like, I'll go watch some "who do I want the most" or "who is the most likely" list a person made on youtube, and it's nearly always some combination of Waluigi, Geno, Sora and/or Crash, a *wacky* pick, and a handful of others.

People pretty much just expect Waluigi to be the only promotion and no one else having close to a shot.

I think there are two big things that make Isaac overshadowed:

• A lot of people are believing there won't be AT promotions. I can perfectly understand that stance and won't throw stones to them (if they aren't stubborn). It hurts every AT, not only Isaac.
• Waluigi is indubitably more known than Isaac, since he appears in nearly every Mario party game nowadays. And he is meme worthy, giving him a head.

I understand that one might think of Waluigi before Isaac when it comes to promotions, although I personally think the opposite for reasons that I find objective (mainly "new world" and "moveset potential"). It is Isaac's notorious absence that is the most disturbing, even though he was one of the most sought-after and expected characters before his AT sentence.

 

[Kalaam]

I should go to the speculation threads too. i'll give it a shot.
Dunno how to bring in Golden Sun speculation tho'.

 

[SPEN18]

Really, it feels like people are just getting way too carried away with the possibilities for third parties and that's bleeding into their "most wanted" characters. This sort of thing is a big part of what made me hesitant about the additions of characters like Cloud and Joker; they detract attention from the wealth of first party options. If the first DLC character had been Bandana Dee or Skull Kid or Waluigi or Tom Nook or Mach Rider or whoever, speculation probably would have taken a wildly different turn. I'm tiring of speculation centering on all these off-the-wall non-Nintendo characters that would've seemed near-impossible even in pre-ballot Smash 4.

 

[TempestSurge]

Really, it feels like people are just getting way too carried away with the possibilities for third parties and that's bleeding into their "most wanted" characters. This sort of thing is a big part of what made me hesitant about the additions of characters like Cloud and Joker; they detract attention from the wealth of first party options. If the first DLC character had been Bandana Dee or Skull Kid or Waluigi or Tom Nook or Mach Rider or whoever, speculation probably would have taken a wildly different turn. I'm tiring of speculation centering on all these off-the-wall non-Nintendo characters that would've seemed near-impossible even in pre-ballot Smash 4.

It's also pretty ironic with how heavy the first pass was on third parties now you'll see some claim that first party characters are boring or now seen as impossible and I've seen someone even hate Byleth for daring to be a Nintendo character on a mostly third party pass lol. It probs doesn't help that a lot of the front liner Nintendo reps at the beginning of Smash speculation got assist'd or turned into Mii costumes (and some still see spirits as a deconfirmation on top of that). Of course there are still some third parties I wouldn't mind seeing in the second pass but good grief it'd be nice to get a couple Nintendo characters again.

 

[Silo777]

As I said earlier, Isaac is quite literally the only AT that gives Nintendo a reason to promote him for reasons other than just “the fans didn’t like it.”

That’s assuming a Golden Sun game is in development, though. If it is, Isaac is by far the best candidate.

 

[THE 6r]

This whole Byleth episode reminds me why it sometimes feels like Isaac is impossible, yet also gives me hope. I have faith in the 2nd Pass. I bought it once it went live on the eshop. We won't know much until we see character 6, but I don't think it's implausible to expect Isaac in this pass. I truly believe there is a new GS game in development.

On a related note, GS and TLA should be arriving in the mail for me any day now and I am HYPED for them.

 

[FamicomDisk]

I have to say, it does feel pretty exciting to have the first Pass complete. People have been mentioning for quite a while that AT promotions, if they were to happen, would only happen after the first Pass was over, because those characters were planned as the game was being developed, meaning they decided which characters would be ATs around the same time. Now that we're finally into a new batch that was planned long after reactions to the base game's AT lineup had happened... anything could happen!

Here's hoping!

 

[Kalaam]

6 characters...
How many ATs are people asking for the most ?

 

[Nazyrus]

I should go to the speculation threads too. i'll give it a shot.
Dunno how to bring in Golden Sun speculation tho'.

Sadly people are close minded to their own fan rules in this community, so you might not be lucky, lol. It's all a matter of waiting for them to get proven wrong, or get BTFO like I like to say.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

6 characters...
How many ATs are people asking for the most ?

The popular ones people want are Waluigi, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Ashley, Zero, Bomberman, Dillon, Takamaru, Knuckles, Shadow, Krystal, Lyn, Black Knight, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Spring Man and Starfy

 

[FlawedAI]

6 characters...
How many ATs are people asking for the most ?

The popular ones people want are Waluigi, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Ashley, Zero, Bomberman, Dillon, Takamaru, Knuckles, Shadow, Krystal, Lyn, Black Knight, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Spring Man and Starfy

I'd personally say of these, Waluigi and Isaac are the most likely, with Shovel Knight, Bomberman, and Spring Man having an outside chance. However, I think only Waluigi and Isaac will happen.

 

[NessAtc.]

I think only Isaac will happen personally

 

[Pinguino21v]

Sadly people are close minded to their own fan rules in this community, so you might not be lucky, lol. It's all a matter of waiting for them to get proven wrong, or get BTFO like I like to say.

The goal, by going on the speculation thread, is not to convert people, it's to keep Isaac in the collective mind. If it's not its fanbase, who will do that?

6 characters...
How many ATs are people asking for the most ?

The popular ones people want are Waluigi, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Ashley, Zero, Bomberman, Dillon, Takamaru, Knuckles, Shadow, Krystal, Lyn, Black Knight, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Spring Man and Starfy

I'd personally say of these, Waluigi and Isaac are the most likely, with Shovel Knight, Bomberman, and Spring Man having an outside chance. However, I think only Waluigi and Isaac will happen.

That is also my point of view. Waluigi and Isaac are the most likely to come and Isaac has even more chance than Waluigi IMO for bringing a new world and a strong moveset.

There are other ATs that people bring on the table, but I see them as pipe dream. Do note that to Isaac: Venus Adept list, you could add Saki that lost his status in Ultimate.

 

[Cadillac]

I'd personally say of these, Waluigi and Isaac are the most likely, with Shovel Knight, Bomberman, and Spring Man having an outside chance. However, I think only Waluigi and Isaac will happen.

Same for me. In here where I live Golden Sun was never officially released, and not many people know about Isaac. But his western popularity is huge and he seems to have a decent place in popularity in Japan as well. So him and Waluigi, who is known worldwide, have the most chances for a promotion.
I really hope some kind of Golden Sun game gets released here.

 

[Guynamednelson]

While Isaac isn't just a spirit:

Hey so

Elma/Fiora/Black Shadow/Octoling intensifies

We do have proof that they'll edit base game spirit names to distinguish similarly-named ones that get added later, IE: Isaac becomes playable, a new spirit gets added called "Isaac (Smash Bros.)" while the base game one is "Isaac (Golden Sun)".

 

[Cadillac]

A random fact about GS spirits: In Korean Isaac's spirit is named "로빈", which is Isaac's Japanese name, Robin.
But the other spirits are named "Jenna", "Ivan" etc... in English.

 

[Silo777]

If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that, if Nintendo wants something badly enough, they’ll do it.

If they want to put an FE character at the end of the pass to promote the new fire emblem even though we already have so many, they’ll do it.

In the same vein, if they want to promote a Golden Sun game by putting Isaac in the pass, they’ll do it.

They’re not going to let a decision made in 2015 to put an item in the game stop them. It doesn’t make any logical sense.

I want you to try and imagine how that business conversation would go to see for yourself how silly it sounds.

“Putting this character in this game would probably immensely boost the sales of this other game we’re trying to sell, especially because it’s an old series making a return. As a plus, this character is very much wanted by the community-“

“Woah woah woah, I’m gonna stop you right there. Did you not hear? We put an item in the game back in 2015 when this other game wasn’t even in the cards yet, so we can’t really do that. Sorry, that’s just how the cookie crumbles.”

Am I saying we’re going to get Isaac? I dunno. However, I am saying that I seriously doubt an AT would stop him if he was to be considered.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The goal, by going on the speculation thread, is not to convert people, it's to keep Isaac in the collective mind. If it's not its fanbase, who will do that?



That is also my point of view. Waluigi and Isaac are the most likely to come and Isaac has even more chance than Waluigi IMO for bringing a new world and a strong moveset.

There are other ATs that people bring on the table, but I see them as pipe dream. Do note that to Isaac: Venus Adept list, you could add Saki that lost his status in Ultimate.

I was just mentioning the ones that are present in Ultimate. Otherwise I'd be representing Saki, Ray Mk III and Advance Wars there too.

While Isaac isn't just a spirit:

We do have proof that they'll edit base game spirit names to distinguish similarly-named ones that get added later, IE: Isaac becomes playable, a new spirit gets added called "Isaac (Smash Bros.)" while the base game one is "Isaac (Golden Sun)".

Yes! I always assumed they'd do something like this if a character is promoted but actually having it happen in the game now makes things look even brighter

 

[Kalaam]

Well to the speculation thread we go.
Time to raid boyz.

 

[Cadillac]

Isaac would be great at edgeguarding because he can just continuously Move opponents to the blast zone

 

[Kalaam]

I'm not sure he'd have move as a regular special, not with that range at least !
I still hope that Move is just kept in the grab and throw stuff, at most as the end of his jab combo to push the opponent in the sweet spot for a side smash or a special as a positionnal tool

 

[Nazyrus]

If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that, if Nintendo wants something badly enough, they’ll do it.

If they want to put an FE character at the end of the pass to promote the new fire emblem even though we already have so many, they’ll do it.

In the same vein, if they want to promote a Golden Sun game by putting Isaac in the pass, they’ll do it.

They’re not going to let a decision made in 2015 to put an item in the game stop them. It doesn’t make any logical sense.

I want you to try and imagine how that business conversation would go to see for yourself how silly it sounds.

“Putting this character in this game would probably immensely boost the sales of this other game we’re trying to sell, especially because it’s an old series making a return. As a plus, this character is very much wanted by the community-“

“Woah woah woah, I’m gonna stop you right there. Did you not hear? We put an item in the game back in 2015 when this other game wasn’t even in the cards yet, so we can’t really do that. Sorry, that’s just how the cookie crumbles.”

Am I saying we’re going to get Isaac? I dunno. However, I am saying that I seriously doubt an AT would stop him if he was to be considered.

This 100%. I honestly even feel willing to bet anything that an AT will most surely get upgraded in this pass 2, just for fun lol.

 

[N3ON]

While Isaac isn't just a spirit:

We do have proof that they'll edit base game spirit names to distinguish similarly-named ones that get added later, IE: Isaac becomes playable, a new spirit gets added called "Isaac (Smash Bros.)" while the base game one is "Isaac (Golden Sun)".

That's cool, but this seems like people thinking ATs couldn't be upgraded because it'd be a hurdle to remove them from the summonable pool.

It's never been the technical aspect, it's the principle most people who don't expect promotions believe to be the hangup.

 

[Cadillac]

That's cool, but this seems like people thinking ATs couldn't be upgraded because it'd be a hurdle to remove them from the summonable pool.

It's never been the technical aspect, it's the principle most people who don't expect promotions believe to be the hangup.

If it's a hurdle to remove them from the summonable pool, why don't we just remove the at?

 

[Kalaam]

It's not even a hurdle to remove them from summonable pool, this feature is already in the game.
AT are automatically disabled on stages where they cannot perform (or sometimes even for a JOKE -> Alucard don't show up on Wii Fit stage because there is a Mirror and he is a VAMPIRE !) like Isaac won't appear on the Fatal Fury stage because it has walls, so Move would just keep the target stuck there.

 

[N3ON]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying it's not the technical aspects like removing the AT from the pool or having two spirits with the same name. Those aren't real hurdles. Programming-wise, they're easily altered.

It's the principle of a character already having a role which people who don't believe in promotions posit as the reason upgrades won't happen. Some draw this line at Spirits, some at costumes, some just at ATs. The point is, it's not an inability to remove an AT from the selection or rename a Spirit around which their arguments revolve. Most people agree that technical stuff is not the obstacle at hand.

 

[Pinguino21v]

It's the principle of a character already having a role which people who don't believe in promotions posit as the reason upgrades won't happen

Even this is not the main point. The issue detractors are expressing is that they think by already being in the game in some form, Sakurai will not want to go back to them.

That may be right. I don't know. But anyway there have never been a set rule dictated by Sakurai for or against the subject, thus the most of us believing it's possible. Other people may think, by default, the opposite.

 

[N3ON]

Even this is not the main point. The issue detractors are expressing is that they think by already being in the game in some form, Sakurai will not want to go back to them.

But all you did was phrase my point differently.

I said the crux of their argument is that, out of principle, their existing role will prevent them from being promoted.

 

[GoodGrief741]

But all you did was phrase my point differently.

I said the crux of their argument is that, out of principle, their existing role will prevent them from being promoted.

That's not an argument though, that's blind belief. It's just a premise repeated over and over with no proof of its truth.

 

[NessAtc.]

It's the principle of a character already having a role which people who don't believe in promotions posit as the reason upgrades won't happen. Some draw this line at Spirits, some at costumes, some just at ATs. The point is, it's not an inability to remove an AT from the selection or rename a Spirit around which their arguments revolve. Most people agree that technical stuff is not the obstacle at hand.

You know I'd believe if I didn't see this belief being thrown around constantly.

A ****ton of people still do believe that there is a technical hangup. They might be laughably wrong, but they're also the ones that get all the likes because they speak as if they know what they're talking about.

The principle of "it's never happened before no reason for it to happen ever" is also flawed. I recall a time where people actually didn't think Little Mac could be playable because he was an assist before. That clearly went nowhere, so they shifted it instead to "an assist trophy can't be promoted in the same game", which is just repurposing the same fan rule to fit a different ideal.

People are wrong, but they don't want to be wrong. So instead, they distort initial arguments to retain being right. That's all this fan-rule ******** has ever been.

 

[SonicLink125]

When two blond men in blue attire from different worlds colide.#SmashBros #GoldenSun #FireEmblem pic.twitter.com/1f2H0359g1

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) January 31, 2020

Something funny I realized when fighting Dimitri as Mii Isaac w/ Adult Isaac Spirit.

While Isaac isn't just a spirit:

We do have proof that they'll edit base game spirit names to distinguish similarly-named ones that get added later, IE: Isaac becomes playable, a new spirit gets added called "Isaac (Smash Bros.)" while the base game one is "Isaac (Golden Sun)".

Also, Adult Isaac is named “Isaac (Dark Dawn)”. Something else I just noticed. lol

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that all they need to do to make an AT playable is to add code that prevents the AT from spawning if the playable version is in the match. This will repurpose code that is currently being used to prevent ATs from spawning on specific stages.

 

[clearandsweet]

I think that all they need to do to make an AT playable is to add code that prevents the AT from spawning if the playable version is in the match. This will repurpose code that is currently being used to prevent ATs from spawning on specific stages.

This is an easy solution, so is make Mathew or Felix the AT. Not like they don't make 30 models of other characters for the stage BGs of every FP character anyway. Swap the models would take like no effort.

And the spirits naming thing, of course it's all contrived. These fan rules are so laughable and meaningless that it's not even worth talking about. They could do anything.

I wonder when we'll see the next character announced? Five months til E3 is a heck of a wait for news.

Also, AKTHULALLY Alucard is a Dhampir which is the son of a vampire and a human woman and if you look in teh um castlevania "anime" I perfer to call it an anime even though it was technically not animated in the land of nippon...

 

[Kalaam]

And the code for that already exist in the game, it's not even hard to do. Just 1 line of code.

 

[Xenigma]

I always find the technical arguments silly, especially in this era of DLC and patches. Not long ago in this very thread we had a small argument about whether the existing two Golden Sun songs would be a problem because they're currently sorted under "General". I won't pretend to know how the actual music files are organized, how they may be tagged, and so on, but the idea that the developers couldn't figure out how to resort those songs in the event of Golden Sun DLC is almost laughable. As with any other fan rule, the question isn't "Can they?" but rather "Do they want to?".