Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[bessie]

Hey, that's exactly what I said and you don't even mention me. I'm hurt I'll let you know.

I’m not posting in my regular style (one long post with all of my thoughts for the past day’s content as a whole). To fulfill the post number requirement I am reading and replying to posts as I go along. And I guess losing some of my insight of the overall picture in the process. But anyway, when I got to your post I didn’t think it was worth quoting and adding “+1, QFT, hey that's what I said” unless I had more to contribute.

By the way, I looked at some of your old scum games in the wayback machine to see if you bussed (there are no recent games archived). And you didn’t bus in any of them, but you were the first scum killed in each one.

 

[bessie]

Everyone should state who they are willing to vote with the format, Commit: player.

We do not vote unless we get 5+ commitments, we discuss it, and are satisfied with the choice as a group. This is to prevent a potential townie gunghoing it, voting another townie, and scum quick hammering.

Again, I think Jack is the correct play today. I implore every to reread my case on him. bessie Sabrar Spak Malakandra / @Trisscar

Commit: Jack

My strongest scum read is Trisscar, but I won’t vote for her until she returns and has an opportunity to post. Pre post edit: Until she has an opportunity to catch up.

 

[bessie]

Bessie- not stood out so it feels like coasting, odd interactions with xivii that Jack pointed out yesterday, copping out on my questions the previous day.

I answered your questions as I understood them and I explained how I understood them. I reanswered your questions in posts 3080 and 3224 after you clarified your intent. I had to work so I didn’t have time to go into my reasons for town reading Xivii and Logic. Why haven’t you pushed me to explain these reads instead of dropping it and just scum reading me for it?

 

[bessie]

Hey bessie! Who do you think is scum and what are your thoughts on what I asked Trisscar about regarding Jack and the possibilities of a framer.

Hi Malakandra! I think Trisscar is scum, for reasons ISO my posts. I would prefer to vote here.
I'm still scum reading Spak. I am not following his reasons for the push for the vig to claim on D2.
Scum likely has some powers, a Godfather or framer are possible. GF was a common role on my former site, but so was full cop. I don't think we have both. I think Triss is scum for reasons unrelated to the night result so that will affect my view. Jack is not a strong town read for me also for reasons unrelated to Fonti's result. He is scum reading me, but I feel he is not trying to read me.

I need to take a break I will try to return to this tonight.

 

[Spak]

For one thing Fonti is Z.

Yeah, so the fact they were on the other wagon could've been a pure act of self-preservation (non-indicative of alignment when there's nothing to gain from their death).

My argument is there are 4 confirmed town to everyone on Z/Fonti at the end of day 1. I am also on Fonti and I know I am town, and Deadbananas is the last person on Fonti, and I think they are likely town.

What makes you think that? I can't speak to scum!DB, but I usually try to spread out people amongst wagons. And I don't think I'd call DB's voting near end-of-phase indicative of any townie behavior, though; he effectively swapped between like three people before throwing up his hands and caving to Ran's suggestion. If you are town, I'd urge you to rethink making such a strong read off of such a weak line of reasoning.

I don't think scum would want a tie here if it was a TvT wagon, since they could easily lynch one of them and get an early town kill.

An early tie is exactly what scum wants. Town lost information off of that NL, which honestly would've saved us a phase later on (or would have given us info we don't have right now, and we'd possibly have one less scum and one more town). A NL is a really good thing from a scum PoV.

 

[Spak]

I actually don't bus either.

Scumteam be rollin in like

 

[Jackrito]

Since people keep saying I could be a GF would that even work against a vanilla cop, the whole point of that role is to see if someone is vanilla or not. I should show up as a role to it still. We were told that even a mafia goon would come up as non vanilla, so I'm not sure if a GF would show up as vanilla or non vanilla since GF is suppose to show up as town to a cop this is a different situation. Its also a role that I don't think Osie would use since he hates cops in general which is the main point of a GF use.

 

[Spak]

Since people keep saying I could be a GF would that even work against a vanilla cop, the whole point of that role is to see if someone is vanilla or not. I should show up as a role to it still.

A GF generally returns a positive/desirable result to cops. That means you'd return as a vanilla. And when were we told that a goon would come up as non-vanilla? Genuinely curious since I don't recall it anywhere, but that'd be useful info to have.

 

[Malakandra]

Yeah, so the fact they were on the other wagon could've been a pure act of self-preservation (non-indicative of alignment when there's nothing to gain from their death).

I'm a bit confused as too what you are saying here. I said Fonti is Z since it looked like from the post I was responding too you didn't know that. Now it looks to me like you are saying Fonti was voting off Z for self pres? I'm a bit confused.

What makes you think that? I can't speak to scum!DB, but I usually try to spread out people amongst wagons. And I don't think I'd call DB's voting near end-of-phase indicative of any townie behavior, though; he effectively swapped between like three people before throwing up his hands and caving to Ran's suggestion. If you are town, I'd urge you to rethink making such a strong read off of such a weak line of reasoning.

I already talked about my reasons for trusting DB in #3378. I am rethinking my fonti read, as I've agreed to drop it for today. I read DB's end of day1 as him struggling for out of game reasons with wanting to vote Z, but you'll have to ask him about that.

An early tie is exactly what scum wants. Town lost information off of that NL, which honestly would've saved us a phase later on (or would have given us info we don't have right now, and we'd possibly have one less scum and one more town). A NL is a really good thing from a scum PoV.

I disagree that scum would want a no lynch. Wouldn't killing a town be better than withholding a bit of information?

 

[Jackrito]

I understand that I have been hard for you to read, my style is reactive and I’m still adjusting from the meta of my old site (this is the first complete game I have ever played on a site other than xkcd), and I only play a 1-2 hours as a block every evening, not quick posts multiple times during the day like most of the other players in this game. I’ve reached out to you to ask me questions in posts 2607 and 3033 to better help you read me, and you’ve asked me nothing.

Its not my job to try and get you to do things espically at this point of the game, I understand someone being reactive, but you are not even being that this game. Most of your posts feel like commentary that added nothing new to the disuisson.

You should not be shocked that I'm scum reading you we are in a situation where free passes are gone, and your play is not good enough to be out of my POE I have micro reasons for town reading others. On you I have nothing but tone. Your main scum read has being Triss and it has being for the entire game, you don't see why I have a issue with that. They is some minor pushs on DB as well, but for a entire game having 2 people constantly in your reads is not normal and just seems off to me they is a lack of overall scum hunting and just sticking with pushing Triss which feels like LHF.

Hell maybe you are right on Triss but it is very narrow thinking, and just seems like a easy scum read to based off how bad she is. You have this weird relationship with Xivii also and based off the amount he protects you it bothers the hell out of me. I just feel that you work in a lot of scum teams, which I need to look at today since you are so non commital and only pushed two people.

 

[Jackrito]

A GF generally returns a positive/desirable result to cops. That means you'd return as a vanilla. And when were we told that a goon would come up as non-vanilla? Genuinely curious since I don't recall it anywhere, but that'd be useful info to have.

Wisp asked Fonti to check I believe and they did and that was the answer it was some point during day 2. I have not seen GF for a while, but will take your word for that is how it works in a vanilla cop world. I doubt we have one though.

 

[Jackrito]

Forgot to add the Spak read to my thing about Bessie there, even with that 3 pushese this far in is pretty bad and all of them can be considered a bit LHF to a degree.

 

[Spak]

I'm a bit confused as too what you are saying here. I said Fonti is Z since it looked like from the post I was responding too you didn't know that. Now it looks to me like you are saying Fonti was voting off Z for self pres? I'm a bit confused.

The fact that Fonti was voting Hando could've been self pres. Dunno where you got that I said Fonti was voting Z.

I already talked about my reasons for trusting DB in #3378. I am rethinking my fonti read, as I've agreed to drop it for today. I read DB's end of day1 as him struggling for out of game reasons with wanting to vote Z, but you'll have to ask him about that.

Right, and it's weak. I'll break it down, bar the wagon analysis:

I feel DB is town since I don't see his role claim being a scum sided ability.

In the case of scum!DB and scum!Sab, the only situation that would make sense is if the redirect didn't exist. I explained this whole scenario yesterDay when I was crazy on the notion that they were both scum (before I recognized that our only protective role was a bulletproof). DB would've used the NK to cover trackers, passed the VT claim (since we thought goons might pass the check), and Sab would've used the kill. If DB is town, that was an awful target and his play hasn't matched up with what I'd expect of Town.

There is always the possibility that DB is lying about the claim but it felt genuine and I don't know why he would lie about something that just incriminates him.

Because they would've needed to cover their bases for the NK target. It's an obscure enough role to feasibly fakeclaim while passing all known investigative checks, and the claim gave him towncred at the time (he went from almost getting lynched to being assumed town for pretty much nothing).

Let me ask you this: why do you think DB's ability isn't scum-sided? It would be a super valuable ability with scum, and given a Town-aligned self-protective role in a game with only one vig, I don't think the vig and second self-protected roles are aligned. Scum would have no KP in that situation (and DB's role seems like a decent balance for Sab's), and it would seem very town-sided power-wise imo.

I disagree that scum would want a no lynch. Wouldn't killing a town be better than withholding a bit of information?

Not necessarily. We could've had a free phase NL later on in the game if we didn't D1 if we needed a stall (or another safe vig N5; we could by in MyLo rather than LyLo), and having no additional info aside from the NKs going into D2 means we used that extra kill in the worst possible way. It was a win for scum I think.

 

[Xivii]

You should not be shocked that I'm scum reading you we are in a situation where free passes are gone, and your play is not good enough to be out of my POE I have micro reasons for town reading others. On you I have nothing but tone. Your main scum read has being Triss and it has being for the entire game, you don't see why I have a issue with that. They is some minor pushs on DB as well, but for a entire game having 2 people constantly in your reads is not normal and just seems off to me they is a lack of overall scum hunting and just sticking with pushing Triss which feels like LHF.

This is simply her playstyle.

Hell maybe you are right on Triss but it is very narrow thinking, and just seems like a easy scum read to based off how bad she is. You have this weird relationship with Xivii also and based off the amount he protects you it bothers the hell out of me.

We are soul bonded. It is my duty.

 

[Malakandra]

Before I answer you Spak, whats a NK?
night kill?

 

[Xivii]

Nortal Kombat

 

[Spak]

Before I answer you Spak, whats a NK?
night kill?

Yup, a NK is a night kill!

 

[Xivii]

Those that I pinged, I'd like your evaluation on the Jack case I made yesterday.

 

[Malakandra]

And what makes Fonti inherently more suspicious based on that wagon analysis than everyone else who wasn't on Z?

Heres where I got you were saying Fonti and Z were different people. I guess I missunderstood but but I thought you were saying Fonti was not on the Z wagon. My bad.

 

[Malakandra]

In the case of scum!DB and scum!Sab, the only situation that would make sense is if the redirect didn't exist. I explained this whole scenario yesterDay when I was crazy on the notion that they were both scum (before I recognized that our only protective role was a bulletproof). DB would've used the NK to cover trackers, passed the VT claim (since we thought goons might pass the check), and Sab would've used the kill. If DB is town, that was an awful target and his play hasn't matched up with what I'd expect of Town.

I think DB explained his reasoning well and it made sense from his perspective. IIRC he thought the only way he would get shot was if Ninja was scum?
What about his play do you think is not town? IMO he and you have been playing somewhat similar games.

Because they would've needed to cover their bases for the NK target. It's an obscure enough role to feasibly fakeclaim while passing all known investigative checks, and the claim gave him towncred at the time (he went from almost getting lynched to being assumed town for pretty much nothing).

Let me ask you this: why do you think DB's ability isn't scum-sided? It would be a super valuable ability with scum, and given a Town-aligned self-protective role in a game with only one vig, I don't think the vig and second self-protected roles are aligned. Scum would have no KP in that situation (and DB's role seems like a decent balance for Sab's), and it would seem very town-sided power-wise imo.

I don't think DB's role is scum sided because one it would be useless every night Sabrar couldn't shoot and that feels like an odd interaction, two I don't really count it as KP since it doesn't cause a new Kill, but thats semantics. I thinks its too powerful to be scum sided. Since it basically means that if Sabrar does manage to land a hit on scum, that shot if on bananas kills a town member instead. It's a lot stronger than a bulletproof, which I feel is too much for scum. But works better for town since DB has to be targeted first, then he has to choose a correct target to redirect, which he didn't.

Not necessarily. We could've had a free phase NL later on in the game if we didn't D1 if we needed a stall (or another safe vig N5; we could by in MyLo rather than LyLo), and having no additional info aside from the NKs going into D2 means we used that extra kill in the worst possible way. It was a win for scum I think.

Maybe you are right here in that it ended out being a positive for scum, but i don't really see a scumteam making the decision to allow a no lynch instead of getting a mislynch on a townie.

 

[Spak]

Those that I pinged, I'd like your evaluation on the Jack case I made yesterday.

Don't recall if I was pinged, but I think that the Jack case you made yesterDay is a bit of a reach. There are two scenarios in which Jack is scum:

1. Fonti is scum. Z;s play and reaction after the D1 fiasco don't match up with scum!Z in my book, and Fonti's been a good person to bounce ideas off of. Only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they're still alive after being influential to Town's play for a bit, but I'm willing to totally bench Fonti until later-game (there are more obvious fish to fry imo).
2. Jack is a GF. This isn't entirely implausible, but it's not super likely; his play has been decent, he's sorta taken up the torch after Logic's death (he's been actively scumhunting, he cleared Fonti's check (which he didn't ask for iirc, and the likelihood of him rolling Godfather is like 1/15 if the role is even in the game), and the stream-of-consciousness ISO on Triss he did earlier today felt very much like he was trying to develop an opinion of them rather than trying to find things to reenforce his preexisting reads).

I think Jack being scum is possible, but unlikely. Due to this, I'd prefer to look elsewhere for the lynch toDay.

 

[Malakandra]

After reading through your argument Xivii, I'm positive one of you or Jack is scum. I'll try to do a re read tomorrow of you both tomorrow and would like Jack to respond to your argument. But I'm probably heading to bed for tonight.

 

[Xivii]

Mala did you not read it before?

 

[Spak]

I think DB explained his reasoning well and it made sense from his perspective. IIRC he thought the only way he would get shot was if Ninja was scum?

I'll have to go back and check. I remember not buying it at the time (especially since 3DS was gonna use his power the next day to get some help for Town so DB should've shot literally anyone else to let 3DS prove his claim), but I haven't looked back at the claim for a hot minute.

What about his play do you think is not town? IMO he and you have been playing somewhat similar games.

He's been playing purely defensively. He's come into thread, stated lukewarm opinions, is mainly present while under pressure, and hasn't contributed an awful lot to the conversation. Literally all relevant information that DB has pushed has come from a claim for a role that doesn't look very town from where I'm sitting and almost getting lynched. From what I've seen of his play, he's the classic case of a scum coaster.

It's kinda funny; up until this phase, I actually categorized you and DB as having similar play lol. I never really saw you in-thread unless you were mentioned, and the only real differentiating factor is that you made a case that doesn't make a whole lot of sense from my PoV (Point of View, sorry if it seems antagonistic but I'd rather you know the terms and I have no clue what needs specification lol). The only content I can remember from you is that case and subsequently defending it. It feels like you felt you needed to make some notable contribution to stand out, but you're having trouble finding scum when you know everyone's town so you had to craft some obscure case that doesn't make a whole lot of sense imo (clearing slots that I don't think deserve to be cleared and condemning slots that I don't see anything wrong with). Maybe we're just approaching the game from such vastly different angles that it's hard for us to look at the game through each other's eyes, but your entire concept of the gamestate seems like one heck of a stretch right now lol.

I don't think DB's role is scum sided because one it would be useless every night Sabrar couldn't shoot and that feels like an odd interaction, two I don't really count it as KP since it doesn't cause a new Kill, but thats semantics.

It's basically a bulletproof plus some vs a vig; it would make sense on the opposite team to balance them.

Also, you basically answered why it wouldn't be OP:

it would be useless every night Sabrar couldn't shoot

I thinks its too powerful to be scum sided.

Plus, the bulletproof helped balance out the additional KP that DB's role would've given.

Maybe you are right here in that it ended out being a positive for scum, but i don't really see a scumteam making the decision to allow a no lynch instead of getting a mislynch on a townie.

I'm not arguing it was the optimal outcome for scum, I'm just saying that it's the outcome that happened (and it was a lot better for scum than it was for town). Bessie didn't count (so she claims) and I think both slots up for the lynch are/were town, and I think we would've had a town flip either way. On a scum!Fonti flip, I'd think Jack/Bessie are scum (as well as one other slot, tbd). I don't think they had a whole lot of power left to do anything during that (or they had their power down/elsewhere), and I don't think anyone realized that Bessie tied it up until after the phase ended. The difference is we didn't have as much info going into D2 as we should've had, which made it really hard to do good wagon analysis (and didn't give us a good springboard into the rest of the game).

 

[Spak]

But I'm probably heading to bed for tonight.

Same, a solid work day plus job search plus Mafia makes me tired lol. Have a good night!

 

[Xivii]

Don't recall if I was pinged, but I think that the Jack case you made yesterDay is a bit of a reach. There are two scenarios in which Jack is scum:

1. Fonti is scum. Z;s play and reaction after the D1 fiasco don't match up with scum!Z in my book, and Fonti's been a good person to bounce ideas off of. Only thing that gives me pause is the fact that they're still alive after being influential to Town's play for a bit, but I'm willing to totally bench Fonti until later-game (there are more obvious fish to fry imo).
2. Jack is a GF. This isn't entirely implausible, but it's not super likely; his play has been decent, he's sorta taken up the torch after Logic's death (he's been actively scumhunting, he cleared Fonti's check (which he didn't ask for iirc, and the likelihood of him rolling Godfather is like 1/15 if the role is even in the game), and the stream-of-consciousness ISO on Triss he did earlier today felt very much like he was trying to develop an opinion of them rather than trying to find things to reenforce his preexisting reads).

I think Jack being scum is possible, but unlikely. Due to this, I'd prefer to look elsewhere for the lynch toDay.

We know for certain, however, that one of those scenarios must be true (not necessarily that Jack is GF but that there is a manipulation role), otherwise Fonti would not be alive. So Fonti either has to be scum or scum has a way to mess with Fonti's results, whether that be GF, Tailor, Framer or else. Do you agree?

 

[Xivii]

Also if Jack is scum, the probability of him being GF or tailored is 1/4 not 1/15.

 

[bessie]

Since people keep saying I could be a GF would that even work against a vanilla cop, the whole point of that role is to see if someone is vanilla or not. I should show up as a role to it still. We were told that even a mafia goon would come up as non vanilla, so I'm not sure if a GF would show up as vanilla or non vanilla since GF is suppose to show up as town to a cop this is a different situation. Its also a role that I don't think Osie would use since he hates cops in general which is the main point of a GF use.

Ok. Not mafiascum Godfather, but Godfather-type role that gives a result that would be the same as if you were vanilla town to all investigations. The wording is ambiguous enough that you wouldn’t know if there was a cop or a role cop (or neither, or something else) in the game.

And, so, you’re saying Osie hates cops so much you doubt he would put a GF in the game, but you somehow believe he put a cop in the game?

Its not my job to try and get you to do things espically at this point of the game, I understand someone being reactive, but you are not even being that this game. Most of your posts feel like commentary that added nothing new to the disuisson.

It’s not your job to get me to do anything. I would think that as town, you would want to get the information you need to make the best reads you can. You are not trying to read me, you are looking for reasons not to so that you can POE me into your scum team.

You should not be shocked that I'm scum reading you we are in a situation where free passes are gone, and your play is not good enough to be out of my POE I have micro reasons for town reading others. On you I have nothing but tone. Your main scum read has being Triss and it has being for the entire game, you don't see why I have a issue with that. They is some minor pushs on DB as well, but for a entire game having 2 people constantly in your reads is not normal and just seems off to me they is a lack of overall scum hunting and just sticking with pushing Triss which feels like LHF.

I’m not shocked that you’re scum reading me. My content has not been very good at all this game. I have been tunneling on Triss and you have an issue with that, even though I have given many reasons in my reads. Interesting how she has been scum reading me, with no solid reason except she doesn’t agree with my logic, but you somehow manage to keep finding reasons to give her a pass. Like here:

ok changed my mind again Triss is scum she has done nothing this game and only 3 votes on Bessie Hando and Xivvi. The Xivii one had no reaosning.

This is the next post in the thread:

Triss has some decent posts on page 70 to 73 tbh really forgot about these posts.

I have had only a few strong scum reads and I have given reasons and backed them up, but that is more suspicious than someone that has given no reasons with examples to back them up?

Hell maybe you are right on Triss but it is very narrow thinking, and just seems like a easy scum read to based off how bad she is. You have this weird relationship with Xivii also and based off the amount he protects you it bothers the hell out of me. I just feel that you work in a lot of scum teams, which I need to look at today since you are so non commital and only pushed two people.

I’m noncommittal? I have given reads with reasons, played Wiisp’s game, voted. Triss couldn’t even play Wiisp’s game and make a good/bad judgement on everyone without hedging (and she skipped the replacements).

You have this weird relationship with Triss and the amount you protect her bothers the hell out of me.

Lynch order: Trisscar, Jack, TBD.

 

[Jackrito]

This is simply her playstyle.

We are soul bonded. It is my duty.

After reading through your argument Xivii, I'm positive one of you or Jack is scum. I'll try to do a re read tomorrow of you both tomorrow and would like Jack to respond to your argument. But I'm probably heading to bed for tonight.

Not much to respond to he has being tunneled on me for a while. The fact he has carried this over today, and not tried to look elsewhere shows they are scum. Now was the time to review everyone if town, not just stick on a tunnel on someone who is only scum in a world where scum can predict the vanilla check and change it or on one where town have no invest role.

That is not the type of lynch town go for today incase it is wrong because too much of a gamble it's insanely bad play.

 

[Jackrito]

Osie does not use normal cops is what I said because too strong and makes game not fun. A vanilla cop is less strong so I can see him using it. He likes to use weaker variations or other invest roles we have nothing else and based off the amount of VT it makes sense.

Adding a role that straight up negates that is not something he would do it would need to be target based to require skill not passive like GF imo anyway. I could be wrong but I have decent exp with him.

 

[Jackrito]

Ok. Not mafiascum Godfather, but Godfather-type role that gives a result that would be the same as if you were vanilla town to all investigations. The wording is ambiguous enough that you wouldn’t know if there was a cop or a role cop (or neither, or something else) in the game.

And, so, you’re saying Osie hates cops so much you doubt he would put a GF in the game, but you somehow believe he put a cop in the game?

It’s not your job to get me to do anything. I would think that as town, you would want to get the information you need to make the best reads you can. You are not trying to read me, you are looking for reasons not to so that you can POE me into your scum team.

I’m not shocked that you’re scum reading me. My content has not been very good at all this game. I have been tunneling on Triss and you have an issue with that, even though I have given many reasons in my reads. Interesting how she has been scum reading me, with no solid reason except she doesn’t agree with my logic, but you somehow manage to keep finding reasons to give her a pass. Like here:

This is the next post in the thread:

I have had only a few strong scum reads and I have given reasons and backed them up, but that is more suspicious than someone that has given no reasons with examples to back them up?

I’m noncommittal? I have given reads with reasons, played Wiisp’s game, voted. Triss couldn’t even play Wiisp’s game and make a good/bad judgement on everyone without hedging (and she skipped the replacements).

You have this weird relationship with Triss and the amount you protect her bothers the hell out of me.

Lynch order: Trisscar, Jack, TBD.

I don't want to lynch Triss because sometimes the easy option is the wrong one. I'm not willing to lose this game on potentially mislynchING someone who could be a really bad town. Do I think she is certain town hell no as my posts today show. My reluctance still, is partly based off my own view on her Wisp and Fonti's. Also because I struggle to find a 4 man team that works with her and want a scum flip before I gamble on her.

Add the fact scum keeping Fonti alive who was suppose to check her a long time ago makes me feel this is a setup or we had heavy bussing going on here.

Your defense being that Triss is much worse then yourself so sould die today is triggering to me also. In a normal situation yeah I maybe lynch her here, not with the game on the line though. Also throwing my accusation back at me about Xivii with myself and Triss is very OMGUS.

 

[Sabrar]

who is only scum in a world where scum can predict the vanilla check and change it

Adding a role that straight up negates that is not something he would do it would need to be target based to require skill not passive like GF imo anyway.

Both of these are easily solved if the Framer has to target the Cop instead of the Cop's target.

I'm not willing to lose this game on potentially mislynchING someone who could be a really bad town. .

That argument makes absolutely zero sense. Everyone can potentially be a really bad town, see Handorin for example. This is no reason to lynch one person over the other.

 

[Jackrito]

Both of these are easily solved if the Framer has to target the Cop instead of the Cop's target.

That argument makes absolutely zero sense. Everyone can potentially be a really bad town, see Handorin for example. This is no reason to lynch one person over the other.

I mean maybe but being able to mess up a cops results that badly by targeting them not their target is very low level skill game design. It would make the cop useless every night.

Everyone can be bad town true, that is why mafia is a pain for me lately to play. I fought the Handorin lynch to a degree fo that reason. I'm in a area lately where bad players are normally town, then scum not always true but feels that way lately. They is a lot more to my Triss read then that though.

 

[Deadbananas]

I answered your questions as I understood them and I explained how I understood them. I reanswered your questions in posts 3080 and 3224 after you clarified your intent. I had to work so I didn’t have time to go into my reasons for town reading Xivii and Logic. Why haven’t you pushed me to explain these reads instead of dropping it and just scum reading me for it?

Counter point, why have you not explained the reads more.
You can consider this me pushing you explain the xivii read.
To answer your question I honestly assumed you were going to answer when you had time, so it's also on me.

 

[Deadbananas]

I'll have to go back and check. I remember not buying it at the time (especially since 3DS was gonna use his power the next day to get some help for Town so DB should've shot literally anyone else to let 3DS prove his claim), but I haven't looked back at the claim for a hot minute.

I'll explain my reasoning again. I thought that since I had put myself in a situation where I could very easily be lynched tomorrow, scum would not shoot me unless I was putting pressure on a member of scumteam. The person I felt I was putting pressure on and who could be mafia was Ninja, so I reasoned if he was scum thats the only reason I would be targeted and therefore targeting him would be best, and if he was town and targeted by scum I would have saved a town pr, I assumed that was my primary function as a guardian angel of sorts. I did not expect there to be a vig that would target me. That's my bad for not predicting that.

 

[Deadbananas]

jacks frustration feels town here, i don't think a scum would call people bad town if they were trying to get them to vote with them lol

 

[Sabrar]

I mean maybe but being able to mess up a cops results that badly by targeting them not their target is very low level skill game design. It would make the cop useless every night.

It's a standard role in Throne of Lies (Apostle).

 

[Sabrar]

jacks frustration feels town here, i don't think a scum would call people bad town if they were trying to get them to vote with them lol

Unless they already cornered themselves with previous reads. Also, related to what I was saying in my 'dumbest post ever', it doesn't matter how anyone behaves during the day in a LYLO situation because you only get to vote once and if it guarantees the win then there will be no repercussions.

 

[Deadbananas]

Lol i thought that was this game at first and was like, when did that happen i don't remember that.
But I guess I understand what you are saying.
If Jack is scum who are their scummates/who are they trying to convince.
I struggle building a scum team around Jack, atleast one that doesn't include fonti who i strongly feel is town.
The best I can get is Jack, triss, spak, Mala. But I feel that has holes, and in that case I feel he is not trying to get Xivii with him, not trying to get me with him, not trying to get Bessie with him, and putting all his eggs in fonti or you agreeing with him. Which I find unlikely and the scum team has a few holes in it anyway.

What do you think a Jack scumteam is?

 

[Sabrar]

Those that I pinged, I'd like your evaluation on the Jack case I made yesterday.

I like your case but I also think you're bussing due to PoE.