Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Malakandra]

ah ok, I understand.

 

[Jackrito]

I definitely want to talk to her before throwing any votes down.

Her vote on Bessie day one was so weird. I'm not sure if she thought she was getting lynched and trying to distance from a teammate or what. Triss had a big wagon at the time so not even self pres there is weird to me. That would speak to me she is scum and trusted team to save her maybe, but getting biased now.

 

[fontisian]

Her vote on Bessie day one was so weird. I'm not sure if she thought she was getting lynched and trying to distance from a teammate or what. Triss had a big wagon at the time so not even self pres there is weird to me. That would speak to me she is scum and trusted team to save her maybe, but getting biased now.

Quote it?

 

[Jackrito]

But I guess *that* is no longer an option, and apparently Bessie has decided that decrying s***** practices is scum worthy for whatever reson.

Unvote, Vote Bessie

This was when she voted Bessie

 

[Malakandra]

Everything Triss has been doing this game has been weird, but I really don't see how to factor a scum team into Triss which is my problem. I was hoping the check would clear everything up.

 

[fontisian]

That could be distancing.

 

[Jackrito]

That could be distancing.

Her train died pretty fast after that vote, partly my fault for buying their reasons for claiming vanilla at start of day. She is around rest of the day though and does not change her vote to you even though Ran was pushing it pretty. She just sits on that vote, I'm not even sure what that vote is for she seems to suspect Boom more and says at one point killing you might be the best choice.

You better not be scum pocketing me btw that eod is painful and is making me paranoid now.

 

[Jackrito]

I didn’t comment on whether or not you are town or scum reading me, which is irrelevant. Tell me BoomFrog, what metric are you using to gage “average content”? Straight post count per player?

How bout you tell me why you allow Trisscar to refuse to play your game and no one else (see post 1394)? Most of us have evaluated or at least made a gut call on everyone, no nulls, no hedging (well, mostly no hedging). Reads at a certain point in time, which as you explain can be reevaluated. Triscar gave a very noncommittal reads list, noncommittal even on me, her scummiest read. You asked again and got this answer.
When pushed again, Trisscar still didn’t play the game but rearranged her noncommittal reads into groupings see post 1397, and without the replacements see post 1398.

Skipping ahead and just reading Trisscar's posts on this page, I see a post about the quoting function (which I agree is awful), one with a question and something about her meta on another site, and another post about another site.

@Trisscar why don't you play Wiisp's game?

Bessie is really going in hard on Triss here, stuff like this makes me feel they can't be teammates or they is a just very hard line distance attempt in a possible scum team towards Triss.

 

[fontisian]

Triss's initial vote on Bessie feels like bussing because it's more venomous (?) then it needs to be. Like, she's putting in the extra effort to make them look unaligned because they /are/ aligned. Bessie's push back is pretty rough though, yeah, doesn't feel like distancing.

 

[Jackrito]

Triss's initial vote on Bessie feels like bussing because it's more venomous (?) then it needs to be. Like, she's putting in the extra effort to make them look unaligned because they /are/ aligned. Bessie's push back is pretty rough though, yeah, doesn't feel like distancing.

I have no idea with this game atm it feels like a gamble tbh, we have decent odds to hit scum today if it gets that bad. Anyway going to keep reading

 

[Jackrito]

View attachment 273020

just reposting for my own leisure.

 

[Spak]

And when the vig didn’t claim, did you not consider that they might have a good reason? And I still don’t see why you think it was important to have this information out there on D2, when it wasn’t needed to prevent a mislynch.

When the vig didn't claim, I was 100% convinced that DB was scum. I thought it was important to have that info on D2 so that I could decide if I needed to waste more time on that slot rather than looking elsewhere for mafia.

 

[Spak]

Why is DB role if true too strong to be scum? It has way more benefit as a scum role them town also.

I agree on that count. Especially if we have just a two-shot bulletproof for town; it seems like that's a lot of KP for scum to have.

 

[fontisian]

When the vig didn't claim, I was 100% convinced that DB was scum. I thought it was important to have that info on D2 so that I could decide if I needed to waste more time on that slot rather than looking elsewhere for mafia.

What are your thoughts on DB nowm

 

[Jackrito]

I might put Spak in my NL pile for today while rereading I like some of their stuff. The more I reread though the more I think Bessie is the best choice today.

 

[fontisian]

Would appreciate if you could share. I've been souring on Spak by the minute.

 

[Spak]

That's fair, I'll him defend himself on that. My two cents is that town are more likely to vote without thinking in lylo than scum, because scum are poised for the win.

Unless they're trying to bait out a vote from any number of newer players to join a wagon...

What are your thoughts on DB nowm

My thoughts on DB are that there's a 4/6 chance he's scum lol. I've mentally put you and Sab on the sideline until there's a reason to reject that notion (your claims seem to have panned out thus far, bar Jack's possible Godfather (but that's not your fault)), and I still feel pretty good about Xivii (although that's mainly been content-based, which can be easy to fake for a player of his skill level). Bessie/Jack are 50/50 in my book (although I do like how much Jack is trying to push for discussion in this phase), and the rest of the game is likely scum imo.

I think we were honestly onto something D1 with the Triss/DB wagons, but then mostly Town led the charge to swap literally everything around and screwed ourselves over. I've overlooked DB's shortcomings for like the last third of last phase since Sab was confident he wasn't scum, but now that we have put together more pieces regarding the balance of power, I don't think that clears DB whatsoever. I'd be fine with him going toDay, but I still think the best move is Malak.

 

[Jackrito]

Would appreciate if you could share. I've been souring on Spak by the minute.

I just agree with his point of view on DB and he also had some decent stuff on day two when it came to Malak once I finish my reread I may iso them to be sure if this feeling holds true. I just don't feel they are likely to be a hit as much as the others.

 

[Spak]

Bessie/Jack are 50/50 in my book

To be honest, I might have to go back and ISO Bessie. I'm quickly realizing that I know nothing about that slot as I try to think about why I'd think they'd be town or scum lol. The phases have not landed on weekends, which is unfortunate considering Bessie's stated active times.

 

[Jackrito]

Unless they're trying to bait out a vote from any number of newer players to join a wagon...

My thoughts on DB are that there's a 4/6 chance he's scum lol. I've mentally put you and Sab on the sideline until there's a reason to reject that notion (your claims seem to have panned out thus far, bar Jack's possible Godfather (but that's not your fault)), and I still feel pretty good about Xivii (although that's mainly been content-based, which can be easy to fake for a player of his skill level). Bessie/Jack are 50/50 in my book (although I do like how much Jack is trying to push for discussion in this phase), and the rest of the game is likely scum imo.

I think we were honestly onto something D1 with the Triss/DB wagons, but then mostly Town led the charge to swap literally everything around and screwed ourselves over. I've overlooked DB's shortcomings for like the last third of last phase since Sab was confident he wasn't scum, but now that we have put together more pieces regarding the balance of power, I don't think that clears DB whatsoever. I'd be fine with him going toDay, but I still think the best move is Malak.

I agree with most of this apart from your view on Xivii talk to me about the good content? The main things I remember are pushing Town Ran, Pushing the Hando lynch, pushing me who is also town and not doing a lot else. Also why is Bessie 50/50 with me explain this.

 

[Spak]

I agree with most of this apart from your view on Xivii talk to me about the good content?

I thought that his view on Fonti's check on you not necessarily clearing you was interesting (and if Xivii happens to be scum, I'd say that dang near clears you imo), he made a solid gut-check on Ran that I agreed with D1 (and I don't think Xivii would have gone that hard on Ran if he knew that Ran was scum imo), I think trying to start up the Triss wagon yesterDay looks pretty good (although I can't remember who the wagon was shifting from? That would be the only scum!Xivii motivation I could think of), and he's just generally had interesting and unique perspectives on the game. I still really like the fact that he stood up to Wiisp on needing time to genuinely make his read list rather than just throwing one together that agreed with thread sentiment to that point, and I think that his sorta outlandish perspective shows that he's unafraid to stand out from the crowd to show his opinions (as opposed to Malak, who made a poorly formulated case against Fonti (which gives me a bit of whiplash, since Malak's opinion of Fonti yesterDay was fairly positive) after people started to notice that he hadn't really contributed anything of note to the game to that point).

Also why is Bessie 50/50 with me explain this.

Mainly PoE. I'm going to look back at Bessie either tonight or tomorrow; I'm interviewing this and next week, so my presence may be a bit spotty (since trying to get a job in this economy means you have to put your best foot forward and then some lol).

 

[Jackrito]

Vote: Xivii

Current scum team as of today, due to posts from all days so far:

Xivii, Logic, Bessie

Alla yall's logic is bloody awful and I'm more than minorly sick of being tunneled myself quite frankly. If town can even still win this, those are the three that need to go down in the next day or so.
Also would like to note that maf may have to sit there for the next few days and kill off town slowly if maf majority does not just end the game. Certainly hope it doesn't come to that, it sounds boring for everybody involved.

This is from day 3 and an actual stance on people who she thinks is scum. I'm not sure why she is scumreading Xivii or Bessie though it feels like another attempt to distance, I can't see it as real scum hunting if lacking a reason.

 

[Jackrito]

ok changed my mind again Triss is scum she has done nothing this game and only 3 votes on Bessie Hando and Xivvi. The Xivii one had no reaosning.

Not unless you have some variant that also moderator-confirms that the shot was you, was not a scum nightkill, and was not a scum-role ability.
Not a massive deal though, you're either what you say you are, or you're maf. Either way other people are being weird and illogical atm, so you aren't really on the scum read list today.



Like I said to Sabrar, they're not behaving oddly, they're just not actually confirmed. There is no usual mechanical way to fully confirm them till the game is over, unless I have an investigative role in fact, which would only confirm it for me regardless.



My list is actually not mechanical at all, it's based on incomplete or flat out incorrect logic, or seemingly deliberate ignoring of facts despite having had it pointed out before and subsequently never providing a reason why they are ignored.



Disagree, it was always a distinct possibility that Handorin was a gamethrowing or -playing a very odd strat- town, in fact the sheer amount of seeming to not care on Handorian's part, and the lack of even an attempt to paint them in a light of trying to pull something from anyone else and the subsequent wagon, practically guaranteed it.
I was just hoping it wasn't the case, because why the hell even play the game if you are just going to troll or give up immediately. All they had to do was ask for a sub out if they weren't enjoying themselves, they had other options and they chose this one.

Your awful logic was right before I voted you. It was a wall of text.

Game doesn't state that, despite other games doing so. Not convinced.

I am not allowed to talk about games in progress.
I have however played or watched a great deal more of other similar games, quite a bit carries over even if my initial strategy did not.
X-night isn't on the common role list last I checked, I do not believe that it's standard as a result.

This feels too real to be a distance attempt off someone playing scum for the first time though.

 

[Jackrito]

Triss has some decent posts on page 70 to 73 tbh really forgot about these posts.

 

[fontisian]

To be honest, I might have to go back and ISO Bessie. I'm quickly realizing that I know nothing about that slot as I try to think about why I'd think they'd be town or scum lol. The phases have not landed on weekends, which is unfortunate considering Bessie's stated active times.

Knowing nothing about the slot is why they'd be scum. If they're town and have had no impact, why haven't scum already pushed on them?

 

[fontisian]

Unless they're trying to bait out a vote from any number of newer players to join a wagon...

My thoughts on DB are that there's a 4/6 chance he's scum lol. I've mentally put you and Sab on the sideline until there's a reason to reject that notion (your claims seem to have panned out thus far, bar Jack's possible Godfather (but that's not your fault)), and I still feel pretty good about Xivii (although that's mainly been content-based, which can be easy to fake for a player of his skill level). Bessie/Jack are 50/50 in my book (although I do like how much Jack is trying to push for discussion in this phase), and the rest of the game is likely scum imo.

I think we were honestly onto something D1 with the Triss/DB wagons, but then mostly Town led the charge to swap literally everything around and screwed ourselves over. I've overlooked DB's shortcomings for like the last third of last phase since Sab was confident he wasn't scum, but now that we have put together more pieces regarding the balance of power, I don't think that clears DB whatsoever. I'd be fine with him going toDay, but I still think the best move is Malak.

God, if Jack and Triss are both mafia, I will never want to think about this game again.

 

[Xivii]

Alright, here we go!

 

[fontisian]

I thought that his view on Fonti's check on you not necessarily clearing you was interesting (and if Xivii happens to be scum, I'd say that dang near clears you imo), he made a solid gut-check on Ran that I agreed with D1 (and I don't think Xivii would have gone that hard on Ran if he knew that Ran was scum imo), I think trying to start up the Triss wagon yesterDay looks pretty good (although I can't remember who the wagon was shifting from? That would be the only scum!Xivii motivation I could think of), and he's just generally had interesting and unique perspectives on the game. I still really like the fact that he stood up to Wiisp on needing time to genuinely make his read list rather than just throwing one together that agreed with thread sentiment to that point, and I think that his sorta outlandish perspective shows that he's unafraid to stand out from the crowd to show his opinions (as opposed to Malak, who made a poorly formulated case against Fonti (which gives me a bit of whiplash, since Malak's opinion of Fonti yesterDay was fairly positive) after people started to notice that he hadn't really contributed anything of note to the game to that point).

Mainly PoE. I'm going to look back at Bessie either tonight or tomorrow; I'm interviewing this and next week, so my presence may be a bit spotty (since trying to get a job in this economy means you have to put your best foot forward and then some lol).

I really disliked that push on Jack. I felt like at the beginning of Day 3, Jack was finally being clearly town and it should have been obvious to Xivii, and instead Xivii was arguing to lynch my one clear check, without even challenging me personally on it. I'm not sure how much that's just my warped perspective talking, though.

 

[Spak]

Knowing nothing about the slot is why they'd be scum. If they're town and have had no impact, why haven't scum already pushed on them?

Fair point, but I think the answer to your question is because they haven't needed to. If you look at the wagon analysis for days leading up to this one, it's been mostly town just screwing itself over. The fact that I can't remember anything about the slot is indicative of the fact that they aren't super active, but that alone isn't reason enough to have solid footing (especially if most of mafia isn't super active, then it'd just look like the pot calling the kettle black).

And Jack has given me a good amount of faith in this phase. I've been skeptical of him previously (although he never really sank that low), but I don't think I'd want him dead toDay. Even if he's scum (which is increasingly unlikely due to the flakiness of his opinion hinting towards trying to formulate an opinion rather than trying to find posts to match something he's already written down), I'm more comfortable with town!Jack.

So right now, I'm thinking Malak/Triss are my core scum picks, DB is a balancing/gameplay analysis scum pick, and Bessie is my PoE scum pick.

 

[Spak]

I really disliked that push on Jack. I felt like at the beginning of Day 3, Jack was finally being clearly town and it should have been obvious to Xivii, and instead Xivii was arguing to lynch my one clear check, without even challenging me personally on it. I'm not sure how much that's just my warped perspective talking, though.

At least for me personally, it introduced the idea of Godfather/vanilla goon Jack. You've always been a pretty hard town lean in my book due to Z's interactions (and everything role-based that you've done since has checked out), but didn't really understand why you seemed to auto-clear Jack. For me, it put another possible explanation on the table that I hadn't thought of (I actually went back to check the rules to see if Godfather was allowed, since that's usually a role I don't see played very often (and I personally hate it because it makes me question everything lol)). I thought it was a unique perspective, and even if it's improbable, it's important to acknowledge all options. Also, I think he was just sorta mini-tunneling Jack and refusing to accept the notion that he was town at that point lol.

 

[Malakandra]

(as opposed to Malak, who made a poorly formulated case against Fonti (which gives me a bit of whiplash, since Malak's opinion of Fonti yesterDay was fairly positive) after people started to notice that he hadn't really contributed anything of note to the game to that point).

Some parts may have been poor, I'll admit I made mistakes, and I still hold that the wagons don't make sense for scum. But it has been pointed out to me that Fonti is a lynch unlikely to unify town, and we need all of town together.

 

[Malakandra]

Alright, here we go!

.....

 

[Malakandra]

Am expecting a big post now

 

[fontisian]

Aren't we all?

Thanks for the response, Spak. I'm processing.

 

[Spak]

Some parts may have been poor, I'll admit I made mistakes, and I still hold that the wagons don't make sense for scum. But it has been pointed out to me that Fonti is a lynch unlikely to unify town, and we need all of town together.

If Fonti is scum, we need them dead like 5 days ago so we have that info and progress accordingly. Town loses if we mislynch toDay; our priority should be scum in all cases, not what we think a unifying factor is. If you think Fonti's genuinely scum then pursue it (the fact that you just dropped it so fast makes me think that you needed a push on someone to generate content and got called out on it, bu. I'd have trouble justifying scum!Fonti from where I'm sitting, but I believe my PoV's also very different from yours.

 

[Malakandra]

If Fonti is scum, we need them dead like 5 days ago so we have that info and progress accordingly. Town loses if we mislynch toDay; our priority should be scum in all cases, not what we think a unifying factor is. If you think Fonti's genuinely scum then pursue it (the fact that you just dropped it so fast makes me think that you needed a push on someone to generate content and got called out on it, bu. I'd have trouble justifying scum!Fonti from where I'm sitting, but I believe my PoV's also very different from yours.

obviously I want to lynch scum, but it needs to be a unified effort and I don't think even if a poured all my work into Fonti today I could get everyone to see it. Therefore I will try to find who I think fits in with a Fonti scum team, but who I also find mainly scummy and go from there. My strongest point for convincing people is the wagons, and I can't convince anyone other than DB on that point.

 

[Spak]

obviously I want to lynch scum, but it needs to be a unified effort and I don't think even if a poured all my work into Fonti today I could get everyone to see it. Therefore I will try to find who I think fits in with a Fonti scum team, but who I also find mainly scummy and go from there. My strongest point for convincing people is the wagons, and I can't convince anyone other than DB on that point.

town!Fonti is pretty core to the way I've figured the gamestate up to this point, so knowing that scum!Fonti is true would change literally everything. With that said, I think I mainly misunderstood what you meant by unified effort; I thought you meant unifying factor in later phases (which wouldn't matter on a town flip lol).

Also, could you go over why you think the wagon analysis is so good? It seems to be your only longstanding argument, and you just pointed at a wagon and said "oh hey, there's four people there, there's four people on the scumteam, that seems like a good idea." That whole argument seems like you're aiming to find reasons for scum!Fonti rather than look for scum and stumble across Fonti. And what makes Fonti inherently more suspicious based on that wagon analysis than everyone else who wasn't on Z?

Anyways, it's like 1:50 AM and I have work tomorrow. Night everybody; I'll talk to y'all later!

 

[Malakandra]

Also, could you go over why you think the wagon analysis is so good? It seems to be your only longstanding argument, and you just pointed at a wagon and said "oh hey, there's four people there, there's four people on the scumteam, that seems like a good idea." That whole argument seems like you're aiming to find reasons for scum!Fonti rather than look for scum and stumble across Fonti. And what makes Fonti inherently more suspicious based on that wagon analysis than everyone else who wasn't on Z?

For one thing Fonti is Z.
For another thats not really my argument. My argument is there are 4 confirmed town to everyone on Z/Fonti at the end of day 1. I am also on Fonti and I know I am town, and Deadbananas is the last person on Fonti, and I think they are likely town. I think the entire Z day 1 wagon is town, which makes me wonder a few things. While I know town can be wrong, it is a bit suspicious but thats not the meat and potatoes. The other wagon was Handorin, another confirmed town who also had 6 votes, with far less confirmed town on it. and this resulted in a tie. I don't think scum would want a tie here if it was a TvT wagon, since they could easily lynch one of them and get an early town kill. There was also wagonomics with Z/Fonti rising a bit before Handorin which makes me feel Handorin was a counter wagon since Handorin was a very easy lynch.

Anyways, it's like 1:50 AM and I have work tomorrow. Night everybody; I'll talk to y'all later!

Night!

 

[Xivii]

Yeesh just spent 4 hours of reading. I'm going to rest now and let my thoughts gather.

 

[Xivii]

Actually I'll get some thoughts out now. I actually agree with a lot of Mala's 3366. I think there's a good chance Fonti is scum and their role is scum's way of hunting down PRs.

I think Jack is the best hit today based off my reasoning from yesterday. Especially considering Fonti's result today. It's likely that results can't trusted -- either because Fonti is scum or because scum have some way of manipulating the results. Ignoring claims, results, meta, and mod-meta, Jack's play most leads to being scum.

Jack and Fonti mates are very much compatible, especially considering how hard Fonti fought against my reasoning yesterday that Jack could still be scum.