Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[fontisian]

Votecount 1.4​

Trisscar (5) - Jackrito, Ranmaru, BoomFrog, Handorin, Malakandra
Pythag (2) - 3DSNinja, Xivii
BoomFrog (1) - Trisscar
Handorin (1) - LaserGuy

Not voting: Bessie, Deadbananas, LogicoftheVI, Malakandra, Spak, Z25, Pythag, Sabrar

Note: Sabrar unvoted just before this votecount, need to find out where he was voting tomorrow.

I'm taking back that argument about Trisscar and Mala not being scummates from that interaction. Triss already had a lot of votes, scum!mala might have been spooked and wanted to distance.

 

[Jackrito]

The question is did they mess things up by chance, or were they orchestrated.

Can you look at Bessie and Xivii interactions for me they really bother me. I'm worried that I'm tunneled though.

 

[fontisian]

Handorin was orchestrated imo. Xivii tried to start it eariler when wagons were Triss and dB. Z25 felt more chance and town led by Ran early

Ok, I will look at this tomorrow. If Xivii was trying to get the lynch away from Triss or Bananas, there have been town he was trying to convince to join him. With luck, some of them will still be alive, and we can use that to solve.

 

[fontisian]

Will look at them as well. I remember bessie answering a behavioral question I had about Xivii two Days ago, Xivii calling Bessie town at the beginning of the game and Bessie focusing on Xivii a bit in one of their first posts. I think this kind of depends on how close they are, do they usually focus on each other like this?

 

[Jackrito]

Ok, I will look at this tomorrow. If Xivii was trying to get the lynch away from Triss or Bananas, there have been town he was trying to convince to join him. With luck, some of them will still be alive, and we can use that to solve.

Agreed leaving this for tonight as well. Would be nice if others joined in.

 

[Malakandra]

Alright crackpot time. With how the deaths are and how we have yet to kill a single scum I think its quite obvious that as others have stated at least one of the role trusted towns is a scum. I feel like with how we have missed town so often and had major town wagons as competitors like Pythag and Logic last night that this would be a more influential person, I feel the most likely candidate for this then is Fonti. Looking back something start to fit into place with the role aspect of that slot, the wagon aspect, and the interaction aspect.

Spoiler: Role Aspect

Fonti says they checked boom Night 1 because they felt they weren't playing like a power role, which presumably means they were searching for someone to clear, they said in post #1173 that they were searching for someone Vanilla or Maf, but the later part doesn't make sense, since the role Fonti has only checks for Vanilla, so in order to think they could check for Maf they would have to feel strongly that boom was not a power role, when they admitted they had not read that much of the game so I don't know why they would have such a strong opinion. They also would of certainly read the part about Trisscar claiming vanilla town and if they were searching for a vanilla to confirm that would of been the play. The boom role check makes sense to me if Xivii is a scum mate of Fonti and since boom sent Xivii the message confirming that boom is town, Xivii would know boom has a power role and thus it would be easy for Fonti to claim that and add credibility to their role. There may be other ways of getting the info, but I just don't see this being the check a town Fonti makes for the reasons she stated.

Spoiler: Wagon Aspect

lets take a look at the day 1 end of day vote count.
I will only be coloring confirmed town that we all know of.
Trisscar (1) - Spak
Deadbananas (1) - Sabrar
Handorin (6) - Z25, Xivii, Pythag, Jackrito, Bessie, BoomFrog
Z25 (6) - LaserGuy, Ranmaru, 3DSNinja, Malakandra, Deadbananas, Handorin
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Not voting: LogicoftheVI
I know for a fact I am town, and I am inclined to believe Deadbananas is town. I think the Handorin wagon was built up as a counter to the Z25 wagon. According to the VC by Handorin in post #1062, and the general thread the Z25 wagon had been starting to build when the Handorin wagon was launched, presumably because it was an easier target to try to get people to lynch considering Handorin is Handorin, I think Jack says it best in post #1098. Note then Jack and Bessie jump on Handorin later on after Z25 starts to gain some last second voters as well. This reads to me as a last second play to save a scummate.

Spoiler: Interaction Aspect

Jack said its very important to be able to build a scum team around a person in LyLo, I think Fonti fits all the requirements of having a team.
Their start of today was weird with them not mentioning their result on Trisscar right off the bat, then saying later in #3329 that they aren't sure whether to share the result. Which saying that is just pointless since its just causes confusion and the result should of course be shared with everyone. There being the possibility of a framer of some sort changes a lot if that was true. This is where I bring up Jack. Jack also had a very weird start to today. Immediately voting is not a great look for a town. Jack's post #3360 believes the Handorin wagon was orchestrated, which I agree with, but they claim Handorin and Triss were counter wagons against DB, for reasoning that (whats in quotation marks I don't want to risk losing all this work by going to a different page so Im copying from another tab its post #3346) "Triss and Hando were the counter wagons to DB. This is important because the DB wagon was full of dead townies now so this means the counter wagons were likely scum motivated." Triss being the counterwagon to DB can be directly disproved in VC 1.4 since Triss had 5 votes on them before Deadbananas even had one. Now I can see the argument for the Handorin wagon being formed as a counter to DB a bit more since DB did gain substantially. more votes at one point. But DB had a lot of votes on him for a while and the Handorin wagon started to really grow when the Z25 wagon rose. This is Jackrito and Fonti working together and they are the basis of the scumteam.
The other member I have talked about is Xivii. Xivii is a very weird part as I feel this is the best explanation for boom, but Xivii has been clashing with Fonti and Jack for a while. This could be an attempt to distance as really just Fonti needs to live till the end since everyone was townreading her hard at that point. Ultimately the connection of Xivii to Fonti is the weak link so far as I have a very hard time reading Xivii.

I feel Fonti is scum for all these reasons, and what like to hear everyone's opinion on this. I know this is a lot to read, I kind of just let all my thoughts go since I figure we have been missing something this whole time and the pieces here make me think its Fonti. From what I've read of Lylo its bad to vote without a talk with everyone.


P.S. If your reading this English teacher (I know you play Smash Bros) I actually used the three paragraph essay structure in real life, I apologize for ever whining about it.

 

[Sabrar]

Noting this because iirc it contradicts Sabrar's reaction to Ninja's roleclaim later in the Day. Check back later.

Incorrect. As I said in the next post you quoted I believed it to be perfectly reasonable for Ninja to have a mentor if it was unrelated to his role. I only disbelieved it when he claimed that the mentor was because of the role he received.

What if all of Triss, DB and Sabrar are mafia? Or just DB and Sabrar, but Sab was bussing.

Sabrar , talk about this metric ton of evidence, please.

I. Don't. Bus.
Especially not on D1.

I feel the most likely candidate for this then is Fonti. Looking back something start to fit into place with the role aspect of that slot, the wagon aspect, and the interaction aspect.

Based on this you're doing the same thing Ran is wont to do, namely you determine in advance who you want to see as scum and then interpret everything with that thought in mind. I will consider your case but that approach is rarely good.

 

[Jackrito]

Alright crackpot time. With how the deaths are and how we have yet to kill a single scum I think its quite obvious that as others have stated at least one of the role trusted towns is a scum. I feel like with how we have missed town so often and had major town wagons as competitors like Pythag and Logic last night that this would be a more influential person, I feel the most likely candidate for this then is Fonti. Looking back something start to fit into place with the role aspect of that slot, the wagon aspect, and the interaction aspect.

Spoiler: Role Aspect

Fonti says they checked boom Night 1 because they felt they weren't playing like a power role, which presumably means they were searching for someone to clear, they said in post #1173 that they were searching for someone Vanilla or Maf, but the later part doesn't make sense, since the role Fonti has only checks for Vanilla, so in order to think they could check for Maf they would have to feel strongly that boom was not a power role, when they admitted they had not read that much of the game so I don't know why they would have such a strong opinion. They also would of certainly read the part about Trisscar claiming vanilla town and if they were searching for a vanilla to confirm that would of been the play. The boom role check makes sense to me if Xivii is a scum mate of Fonti and since boom sent Xivii the message confirming that boom is town, Xivii would know boom has a power role and thus it would be easy for Fonti to claim that and add credibility to their role. There may be other ways of getting the info, but I just don't see this being the check a town Fonti makes for the reasons she stated.

Spoiler: Wagon Aspect

lets take a look at the day 1 end of day vote count.
I will only be coloring confirmed town that we all know of.
Trisscar (1) - Spak
Deadbananas (1) - Sabrar
Handorin (6) - Z25, Xivii, Pythag, Jackrito, Bessie, BoomFrog
Z25 (6) - LaserGuy, Ranmaru, 3DSNinja, Malakandra, Deadbananas, Handorin
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Not voting: LogicoftheVI
I know for a fact I am town, and I am inclined to believe Deadbananas is town. I think the Handorin wagon was built up as a counter to the Z25 wagon. According to the VC by Handorin in post #1062, and the general thread the Z25 wagon had been starting to build when the Handorin wagon was launched, presumably because it was an easier target to try to get people to lynch considering Handorin is Handorin, I think Jack says it best in post #1098. Note then Jack and Bessie jump on Handorin later on after Z25 starts to gain some last second voters as well. This reads to me as a last second play to save a scummate.

Spoiler: Interaction Aspect

Jack said its very important to be able to build a scum team around a person in LyLo, I think Fonti fits all the requirements of having a team.
Their start of today was weird with them not mentioning their result on Trisscar right off the bat, then saying later in #3329 that they aren't sure whether to share the result. Which saying that is just pointless since its just causes confusion and the result should of course be shared with everyone. There being the possibility of a framer of some sort changes a lot if that was true. This is where I bring up Jack. Jack also had a very weird start to today. Immediately voting is not a great look for a town. Jack's post #3360 believes the Handorin wagon was orchestrated, which I agree with, but they claim Handorin and Triss were counter wagons against DB, for reasoning that (whats in quotation marks I don't want to risk losing all this work by going to a different page so Im copying from another tab its post #3346) "Triss and Hando were the counter wagons to DB. This is important because the DB wagon was full of dead townies now so this means the counter wagons were likely scum motivated." Triss being the counterwagon to DB can be directly disproved in VC 1.4 since Triss had 5 votes on them before Deadbananas even had one. Now I can see the argument for the Handorin wagon being formed as a counter to DB a bit more since DB did gain substantially. more votes at one point. But DB had a lot of votes on him for a while and the Handorin wagon started to really grow when the Z25 wagon rose. This is Jackrito and Fonti working together and they are the basis of the scumteam.
The other member I have talked about is Xivii. Xivii is a very weird part as I feel this is the best explanation for boom, but Xivii has been clashing with Fonti and Jack for a while. This could be an attempt to distance as really just Fonti needs to live till the end since everyone was townreading her hard at that point. Ultimately the connection of Xivii to Fonti is the weak link so far as I have a very hard time reading Xivii.

I feel Fonti is scum for all these reasons, and what like to hear everyone's opinion on this. I know this is a lot to read, I kind of just let all my thoughts go since I figure we have been missing something this whole time and the pieces here make me think its Fonti. From what I've read of Lylo its bad to vote without a talk with everyone.


P.S. If your reading this English teacher (I know you play Smash Bros) I actually used the three paragraph essay structure in real life, I apologize for ever whining about it.

Just to make this clear I'm not voting Fonti today, If I lose today because of it so be it. I feel that he has being one of the postitve players in this game with active scum hunting and not letting the game stagnate. I also don't think Z25 has that reaction end of day one if scum this is a read I should maybe not make, but that felt like real town frustration.

I have no issues with his checks either his one on Boom makes sense to me, I would of perffered it used better on N1 but I respect the attempt on trying to catch a scum Boom. His check on myself while unexpected also saved us from wasting a day on a universal lynch, if scum he never saves me there unless we are scum mates which since I'm town is clearly wrong. I also liked his hesitation on the Triss one since a mafia role being able to intefer with his results would make sense and they is a lot of evidence that makes it hard for me to see Triss as scum because lack of teammates.

What makes you so sure DB is town his wagon is the most clean this game tbh, on the votes by myself and Bessie I did it after pushing Z25 most of the day the only reason I did not commit is because not wanting to lynch someone in that situation their play was not bad enough for me to bus and then ris putting myself in a bad position. Bessie from what I could see voted because Xivii told them to this can lead to a Z25 scum team with those 2 but not feeling it. You also agree with a lot of things I'm saying in this but appear to think I'm teammates with Fonti?

You also only have a 3 man scum team which does not work because we are dealing with 4 scum here, also I know myself to be town so you are missing 2 for this to work.

 

[Spak]

Modkill dodge


I'll be on after work today. Just moved this weekend so I've been busy, but I'll be all caught up tonight and post my thoughts. Also, we should get like a FoS count going.

 

[Deadbananas]

Deadbananas Deadbananas , this thought process doesn't match up with your role, and generally makes no sense. Potentially a result of tmi, and knowledge of the scum abilites.

That is because I was not thinking of my role when I said this. This situation has been explained before but I'll go over it again. This was in response to Trisscar pushing for a mass claim, and I who had just been in a game hosted by Osie similar to this, and another similar game right before that where both had claim vigs that killed town when they claimed. Think of me or a supposed scum mate had a claim vig, why would I bring it up and not want people to claim. I could of easily said nothing, and in the situation you proposed gain way more from that.

 

[Deadbananas]

Alright crackpot time. With how the deaths are and how we have yet to kill a single scum I think its quite obvious that as others have stated at least one of the role trusted towns is a scum. I feel like with how we have missed town so often and had major town wagons as competitors like Pythag and Logic last night that this would be a more influential person, I feel the most likely candidate for this then is Fonti. Looking back something start to fit into place with the role aspect of that slot, the wagon aspect, and the interaction aspect.

Spoiler: Role Aspect

Fonti says they checked boom Night 1 because they felt they weren't playing like a power role, which presumably means they were searching for someone to clear, they said in post #1173 that they were searching for someone Vanilla or Maf, but the later part doesn't make sense, since the role Fonti has only checks for Vanilla, so in order to think they could check for Maf they would have to feel strongly that boom was not a power role, when they admitted they had not read that much of the game so I don't know why they would have such a strong opinion. They also would of certainly read the part about Trisscar claiming vanilla town and if they were searching for a vanilla to confirm that would of been the play. The boom role check makes sense to me if Xivii is a scum mate of Fonti and since boom sent Xivii the message confirming that boom is town, Xivii would know boom has a power role and thus it would be easy for Fonti to claim that and add credibility to their role. There may be other ways of getting the info, but I just don't see this being the check a town Fonti makes for the reasons she stated.

Spoiler: Wagon Aspect

lets take a look at the day 1 end of day vote count.
I will only be coloring confirmed town that we all know of.
Trisscar (1) - Spak
Deadbananas (1) - Sabrar
Handorin (6) - Z25, Xivii, Pythag, Jackrito, Bessie, BoomFrog
Z25 (6) - LaserGuy, Ranmaru, 3DSNinja, Malakandra, Deadbananas, Handorin
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Not voting: LogicoftheVI
I know for a fact I am town, and I am inclined to believe Deadbananas is town. I think the Handorin wagon was built up as a counter to the Z25 wagon. According to the VC by Handorin in post #1062, and the general thread the Z25 wagon had been starting to build when the Handorin wagon was launched, presumably because it was an easier target to try to get people to lynch considering Handorin is Handorin, I think Jack says it best in post #1098. Note then Jack and Bessie jump on Handorin later on after Z25 starts to gain some last second voters as well. This reads to me as a last second play to save a scummate.

Spoiler: Interaction Aspect

Jack said its very important to be able to build a scum team around a person in LyLo, I think Fonti fits all the requirements of having a team.
Their start of today was weird with them not mentioning their result on Trisscar right off the bat, then saying later in #3329 that they aren't sure whether to share the result. Which saying that is just pointless since its just causes confusion and the result should of course be shared with everyone. There being the possibility of a framer of some sort changes a lot if that was true. This is where I bring up Jack. Jack also had a very weird start to today. Immediately voting is not a great look for a town. Jack's post #3360 believes the Handorin wagon was orchestrated, which I agree with, but they claim Handorin and Triss were counter wagons against DB, for reasoning that (whats in quotation marks I don't want to risk losing all this work by going to a different page so Im copying from another tab its post #3346) "Triss and Hando were the counter wagons to DB. This is important because the DB wagon was full of dead townies now so this means the counter wagons were likely scum motivated." Triss being the counterwagon to DB can be directly disproved in VC 1.4 since Triss had 5 votes on them before Deadbananas even had one. Now I can see the argument for the Handorin wagon being formed as a counter to DB a bit more since DB did gain substantially. more votes at one point. But DB had a lot of votes on him for a while and the Handorin wagon started to really grow when the Z25 wagon rose. This is Jackrito and Fonti working together and they are the basis of the scumteam.
The other member I have talked about is Xivii. Xivii is a very weird part as I feel this is the best explanation for boom, but Xivii has been clashing with Fonti and Jack for a while. This could be an attempt to distance as really just Fonti needs to live till the end since everyone was townreading her hard at that point. Ultimately the connection of Xivii to Fonti is the weak link so far as I have a very hard time reading Xivii.

I feel Fonti is scum for all these reasons, and what like to hear everyone's opinion on this. I know this is a lot to read, I kind of just let all my thoughts go since I figure we have been missing something this whole time and the pieces here make me think its Fonti. From what I've read of Lylo its bad to vote without a talk with everyone.


P.S. If your reading this English teacher (I know you play Smash Bros) I actually used the three paragraph essay structure in real life, I apologize for ever whining about it.

Mala the problem with this is you have to get all of town to agree on a person to lynch them in Lylo. I doubt you will get all of town to vote with you for Fonti here as I don't think Fonti is the right play today. If you are town and are convinced on this you should focus on finding that 4th person and making a case on them today as I don't think Fonti is in the lynch pool for most town. Some of your points are good from your perspective, like the one about the wagon. And I can see it too, but thats because we are both the other people on it, so that means we only have to think one other person is town for that to happen. Town off that have to think two people are town to get that argument so its not great for convincing other town members. Your best point is on Jackrito for saying that Triss was a counter wagon to me when Triss came first.

 

[Xivii]

I'll fully read up later tonight. I think it's fairly possible that Jack and Fonti are both scum. This is a simpler solution than my tailor idea. And their play today seems kind of coordinated?

Jackrito you think scum would aim for a potential PR rather than a confirmed PR? Also, Ranmaru was willing to be lynched D1, so it's doubtful scum thought the slot was a PR.

Also why does pythag being BP decrease the likelihood of vig, shouldn't it be the opposite? My thought after the flip was that it validated Sabrars claim because he was 2-shot. So if he would survive if he was targeted by both the vig shot and scum shot.

 

[Deadbananas]

Xivii, what is your opinion on Trisscar and the check not showing vanilla town. In both a scum Fonti and a town Fonti perspectives.

 

[Xivii]

If town!Fonti, scum Triss wouldn't leave Fonti alive, so it's likely the result of manipulation. If scum!Fonti it could go either way. If Jack and Fonti are scum, neither of them seem to be making a hard line for Triss, but idk. I guess one possibility of scum!Triss town!Fonti is leaving Fonti alive and letting her check her for the sake of wifom. This just seems unnecessarily risky though.

 

[Deadbananas]

Personally I don't see the Trisscar check interacting with a scum Fonti. If fonti and Triss were scum together then Fonti would of just said they got a green check that Triss was town, if Triss was town and Fonti was scum, it would be an easy push. I could much easier see a fake check here than a scum fonti.

 

[Deadbananas]

If town!Fonti, scum Triss wouldn't leave Fonti alive, so it's likely the result of manipulation. If scum!Fonti it could go either way. If Jack and Fonti are scum, neither of them seem to be making a hard line for Triss, but idk. I guess one possibility of scum!Triss town!Fonti is leaving Fonti alive and letting her check her for the sake of wifom. This just seems unnecessarily risky though.

I agree about too risky, I could see it maybe if Sabrar was killed tonight since they could of been more worried about a vig shooting scum, but killing toko to take the risk of Fonti checking Triss is Triss is scum and relying on WIFOM is way too risky

 

[Jackrito]

I'll fully read up later tonight. I think it's fairly possible that Jack and Fonti are both scum. This is a simpler solution than my tailor idea. And their play today seems kind of coordinated?

Jackrito you think scum would aim for a potential PR rather than a confirmed PR? Also, Ranmaru was willing to be lynched D1, so it's doubtful scum thought the slot was a PR.

Also why does pythag being BP decrease the likelihood of vig, shouldn't it be the opposite? My thought after the flip was that it validated Sabrars claim because he was 2-shot. So if he would survive if he was targeted by both the vig shot and scum shot.

I feel it makes a scum vig more likely then a town vig, we clearly have some form of vig or maybe a potential Sk based off the kills each night. I just don't feel good game design is to have a town vig and a bulleproof town it is just a waste of the vig shot. Having it for a scum vig makes more sense. Sabrar play overall I have liked though, as I said eariler so not really intrested in that lynch. I feel they are better options today DB seems more likely scum off wagons and also their role which I have had issue with since the claim.

Scum are keeping our PRs alive to keep distrust in us high or they have a way to manipulate them. That is more likely reason for their shot on that slot also because Toko was pretty active mafia would perfer a dead game state so it is easier to control.

 

[Malakandra]

What makes you so sure DB is town his wagon is the most clean this game tbh, on the votes by myself and Bessie I did it after pushing Z25 most of the day the only reason I did not commit is because not wanting to lynch someone in that situation their play was not bad enough for me to bus and then ris putting myself in a bad position. Bessie from what I could see voted because Xivii told them to this can lead to a Z25 scum team with those 2 but not feeling it. You also agree with a lot of things I'm saying in this but appear to think I'm teammates with Fonti?

You also only have a 3 man scum team which does not work because we are dealing with 4 scum here, also I know myself to be town so you are missing 2 for this to work.

On DB, Z25's wagon is the most clean this game, I think 3 confirmed town day 1 not at EoD is not that big of a deal I feel, much less than 4 confirmed town on Z at the end of day, plus me and one other I feel are town. Your main reason for DB seems to be the clean wagon but there are cleaner wagons, at more critical times. I feel DB is town since I don't see his role claim being a scum sided ability. If him and Sabrar are scum together, then why wouldn't Sabrar just shoot Ninja straight off, and then why would DB have that ability since we have seen no evidence of any other town kill roles. There is always the possibility that DB is lying about the claim but it felt genuine and I don't know why he would lie about something that just incriminates him. In the end I have to take stand and town read someone at this point like you are doing with Fonti.

I understand your reasoning for voting Z25, but the timing looks suspicious with Bessie as well. I am more willing to accept your reasoning since I can understand the feelings you had, but the vote pattern in general looks suspicious. I'm thinking Bessie might be the one I'm missing but I need to look more into it, and obviously I'm not going to change my mind just because you claim to know your town. Why did you say that Triss was a counter wagon to DB when that is obviously not true considering the Triss wagon reached its peak before Bananas was even being voted.

 

[Malakandra]

I feel it makes a scum vig more likely then a town vig, we clearly have some form of vig or maybe a potential Sk based off the kills each night. I just don't feel good game design is to have a town vig and a bulleproof town it is just a waste of the vig shot.

Does the bulletproof not block a night kill as well? and it makes it so vig killing town is less likely so a good boon for us.

 

[bessie]

Noting this because iirc it contradicts Sabrar's reaction to Ninja's roleclaim later in the Day. Check back later.

There was some misunderstanding on the mentor claim, whether it was an actual role or not. We had a newbie game on xkcd where all the newbie players had mentors, the mentors were not part of the game, did not post, and did not give reads or game specific advice to their mentees. They were only there to help the newbies get familiar with the game and answer general questions or questions on game mechanics, and all mentor-mentee pairs were in the opening post. Others in this game were speculating that the mentor was part of the game, which he was.

****ing weird how many of the people who didn't vote early are alive now. Could be a scumteam opposed to aggressive voting in general.

I already explained that I rarely vote early in Post #265 and also meta holdover from my old site. Not placing a serious vote early was common on xkcd (RVS doesn’t count, and everyone was expected to remove their RVS vote as soon as a serious vote was cast), I refer to this in Post #388. Also majority lynch wasn’t usually required. We had a DGames/xkcd game and my power was one shot that on the day I used it no one could change their vote. I thought I had a totally worthless power and I never used it. The game creator considered it the most powerful town power in the game.

 

[bessie]

Sabrar being a claim vig has being on my mind all day, and is a real concern since both of his shots have being on people that claimed. He also can't kill you, or me because it makes no sense for the town vig to do so. If mafia he could just get his team to shoot a scum read person to counteract this though. I feel based off the vote counts just posted Sab is unlikely on a team with DB.

Sabrar shot Deadbananas before he claimed.

 

[Spak]

Okay everybody, I'm here! Feel free to bounce ideas off of/ask me things if you want to, but I'm gonna get caught up real quick.

 

[bessie]

Will look at them as well. I remember bessie answering a behavioral question I had about Xivii two Days ago, Xivii calling Bessie town at the beginning of the game and Bessie focusing on Xivii a bit in one of their first posts. I think this kind of depends on how close they are, do they usually focus on each other like this?

Exactly who do you want to reply to this question? The only person left alive who has played with us both in the same game is Sabrar. And I guess Spak, that was one game in 2017 and he didn’t even remember his own role, see post #1669:

I did at the time, but that was years ago and I don't recall the result (and can't check). Don't even remember what my own alignment was tbh lol.

 

[bessie]

Okay everybody, I'm here! Feel free to bounce ideas off of/ask me things if you want to, but I'm gonna get caught up real quick.

You never responded to my post #3085.

 

[Spak]

Okay, so already:

There are nine players left

Sab/DB are possibly the same alignment, and Jack/Fonti are likely the same alignment (bar something like Godfather)
If they're telling the truth, scum lies literally everywhere outside of them. I'm inclined to believe Sab/DB based upon the crumbs that Sab left behind for his sudden switch of opinion on DB (and I don't think that scum would have that much KP without a strong town protective role and its own KP (2-shot bulletproof isn't sufficient to balance that)).

We're told we are in LyLo, and since our protective role is gone, we'd be screwed if Sab is scum and we don't kill him by toMorrow night, so prioritizing that wouldn't make sense

Of everyone, I'm still putting my bet on Malak being scum. I don't trust him whatsoever, he's been here when mentioned and out everytime else, and he averse to the spotlight without contributing anything actually useful to town.

Another thing we should put into question is if DB's role is townie. It could be that he's the role he claimed, but if town has a odd-night vig, it'd make sense for DB to have a redirect. We have no clue what Mafia's PRs are, so there's no way to judge the viability of those roles. It's been a little odd how Fonti's been auto-clearing Jack for the VC claim, though. fontisian do you have any particular reason that you're so sure that Jack isn't just a vanilla scum?

 

[Spak]

Spak, why did you want the vig to claim on Day 2, what would it have gained over waiting until Day 3?

I wanted the vig to claim D2 because I've mostly played with one-shot vigs, so I thought there'd be no disadvantage to a townsperson claiming as a vig after the shot was gone. It'd help clarify some confusion, and then even if we ended up killing one of the slots, it'd give us really good info to read the other person. I figured it would get more info out there, and the benefits of a claim right there outweighed the costs. Had I known it was an odd night vig, I'd have held off a bit.

 

[Spak]

I. Don't. Bus.
Especially not on D1.

Just saying, meta isn't a metric ton of evidence lol.

 

[Spak]

Of everyone, I'm still putting my bet on Malak being scum. I don't trust him whatsoever, he's been here when mentioned and out everytime else, and he averse to the spotlight without contributing anything actually useful to town.

Correction for this now that I've read up: Malak has now posted a case of his unique perspective on Fonti. +5 points to Gryffindor, but I disagree with the notion that Fonti's scum. Z's reaction seemed like super frustrated townie at the end of D1, I already had a pretty strong gut read on them, and they've been helpful thus far. If that EoD was scum!Z, I'm turning in my scumhunting card lol. With that said, I agree that there's a strong possibility of a cleared slot being scum. There's room for:

1. Jack being a Godfather
2. DB true claiming, but being scum aligned

I believe Sab is town due to balancing, and I believe Fonti's Neapolitan claim, and I'm not self-voting under any circumstance. I was fine clearing DB earlier due to Sab's confidence in the slot yesterDay, but 3DS was still an awful target for a town shot and even though DB has explained it, it feels like he was trying to shut down a PR before it could trigger. Everything else is on the table for me toDay (with varying levels of possibility). If we leave Sab for N5 (if we get that far) then he'll either win scum the game or be a confirmed slot, but I'm willing to take that risk since I'm decently confident he'd have to be town for the setup to make sense.

 

[Spak]

EBWOP: Also, Jack's start-of-phase post makes me fairly certain that Sab isn't scum. They totally coulda hammered in an hour and a half, and the fact that they didn't makes me even more unsure about Jack.

 

[Spak]

Also, this is doubtful, but if all of this phase so far has been to make scum!Fonti look even better (distancing from Malak with the swiss cheese case, Jack's vote and Fonti's subsequent call-out, etc.), I'll be a bit peeved lol

 

[Spak]

 

[Sabrar]

so in order to think they could check for Maf they would have to feel strongly that boom was not a power role, when they admitted they had not read that much of the game so I don't know why they would have such a strong opinion.

Why couldn't they have? People have strong opinions based on two lines of content all the time. I don't feel this argument holds merit at all.

"Wagon Aspect"

This is a reasonable interpretation.

Jack said its very important to be able to build a scum team around a person in LyLo, I think Fonti fits all the requirements of having a team.

Pointing out interactions with others does not equal 'fitting all the requirements'. This is again the same mentality of "I want to find fonti scummy so let's interpret everything they do from that angle".

Just saying, meta isn't a metric ton of evidence lol.

It is when it is clearly defined and consistent over a long time. But whatever.

 

[Malakandra]

Why couldn't they have? People have strong opinions based on two lines of content all the time. I don't feel this argument holds merit at all.

I don't see why she would of acted on the opinion, since she hadn't read the whole thing yet, so while I guess I can see there being a strong opinion at that point, I don't think it makes sense for Fonti, who has appeared to be a very good player, to just go off of that without reading the rest.

Pointing out interactions with others does not equal 'fitting all the requirements'. This is again the same mentality of "I want to find fonti scummy so let's interpret everything they do from that angle".

That part about Fonti fitting all my requirements was supposed to be in the conclusion part, but I get what you are saying. I used the english paper method which made it look like I came to the conclusion that fonti was scum then just put evidence instead of framing it as this is the evidence for why I view fonti is scum and the requirements part was about Jack mentioning needing to build a scumteam as a requirement.

You also agree with a lot of things I'm saying in this but appear to think I'm teammates with Fonti?

I think there is a high chance you are teammates, but the stuff I agreed with I felt was good and objective, I can find you scummy and agree with a few of your posts about objective things like scum need to fit in a team.

 

[Sabrar]

I don't see why she would of acted on the opinion, since she hadn't read the whole thing yet,

She had to act on something, no?

I don't think it makes sense for Fonti,

People see things differently. I've learned that a long time ago.

That part about Fonti fitting all my requirements was supposed to be in the conclusion part, but I get what you are saying. I used the english paper method which made it look like I came to the conclusion that fonti was scum then just put evidence instead of framing it as this is the evidence for why I view fonti is scum and the requirements part was about Jack mentioning needing to build a scumteam as a requirement.

Yes, but you're still not explaining why all of that is scummy in itself. You're just pointing it out that there is an explanation if they are scum together.

I can find you scummy and agree with a few of your posts

This I can relate to.

 

[Spak]

It is when it is clearly defined and consistent over a long time. But whatever.

But then you can just play contrary to your self-stated meta and say "That's not me." Self-meta never works imo.

 

[Sabrar]

Assuming Triss maintains the VT claim (btw where is Trisscar ?) scum must have an ability to screw with fonti's results otherwise they would have killed her N3 after the second protective town-role was revealed. Sidenote: I continue to believe that DB is town because his ability is currently the only explanation for my N1 result and that ability would be way too strong in the hands of scum. Gaming the mod here a bit.
The other possibility would be total WIFOM coming from scum!Triss who would hope we would think that but this seems too much of a risk even though Xivii already brought up the possibility.

So that would leave a town-core of DB, fonti, Triss. I'm pretty sure that Jack is scum in this scenario, that vote in his first post D4 is terrible.
Pythag gave very specific reasoning why Spak is town, I'm willing to trust him on this. Xivii pushed Jack quite a bit but he's capable of bussing, bessie pushed Trisscar and Spak which looks bad from this pov. Malak is pushing fonti.

Scenario 1: scum-team is Jack, Xivii, bessie, Malak
Time to review voting patterns to see if it makes sense.

 

[Sabrar]

D1 none of them were ever in any danger of being lynched. D2 Jack reaches 3 votes before the Handorin-wagon takes over, votes on Jack are 2 confirmed town + fonti. D3 again they are in no danger.
So from this aspect there is no contradiction.

 

[osieorb18]

Day 4 Activity Check 1​

Jackrito - 5+
fontisian - 5+
Deadbananas - 5+
Sabrar - 5+
Malakandra - 5
bessie - 5+
Spak - 5+ (I guess)

Xivii - 2
Trisscar - 0 (V/LA)

Xivii has been prodded.

 

[Jackrito]

Assuming Triss maintains the VT claim (btw where is Trisscar ?) scum must have an ability to screw with fonti's results otherwise they would have killed her N3 after the second protective town-role was revealed. Sidenote: I continue to believe that DB is town because his ability is currently the only explanation for my N1 result and that ability would be way too strong in the hands of scum. Gaming the mod here a bit.
The other possibility would be total WIFOM coming from scum!Triss who would hope we would think that but this seems too much of a risk even though Xivii already brought up the possibility.

So that would leave a town-core of DB, fonti, Triss. I'm pretty sure that Jack is scum in this scenario, that vote in his first post D4 is terrible.
Pythag gave very specific reasoning why Spak is town, I'm willing to trust him on this. Xivii pushed Jack quite a bit but he's capable of bussing, bessie pushed Trisscar and Spak which looks bad from this pov. Malak is pushing fonti.

Scenario 1: scum-team is Jack, Xivii, bessie, Malak
Time to review voting patterns to see if it makes sense.

Why is DB role if true too strong to be scum? It has way more benefit as a scum role them town also. We already have too many PR imo so someone is lying and most likely them.

Its not like their play is amazing enough to be called town either they is a reason why that wagon build up so much.

I agree with your scum team though apart from myself for obv reasons.

 

[Jackrito]

Assuming Triss maintains the VT claim (btw where is Trisscar ?) scum must have an ability to screw with fonti's results otherwise they would have killed her N3 after the second protective town-role was revealed. Sidenote: I continue to believe that DB is town because his ability is currently the only explanation for my N1 result and that ability would be way too strong in the hands of scum. Gaming the mod here a bit.
The other possibility would be total WIFOM coming from scum!Triss who would hope we would think that but this seems too much of a risk even though Xivii already brought up the possibility.

So that would leave a town-core of DB, fonti, Triss. I'm pretty sure that Jack is scum in this scenario, that vote in his first post D4 is terrible.
Pythag gave very specific reasoning why Spak is town, I'm willing to trust him on this. Xivii pushed Jack quite a bit but he's capable of bussing, bessie pushed Trisscar and Spak which looks bad from this pov. Malak is pushing fonti.

Scenario 1: scum-team is Jack, Xivii, bessie, Malak
Time to review voting patterns to see if it makes sense.

Why is DB role if true too strong to be scum? It has way more benefit as a scum role them town also. We already have too many PR imo so someone is lying and most likely them.

Its not like their play is amazing enough to be called town either they is a reason why that wagon build up so much.

I agree with your scum team though apart from myself for obv reasons.