Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Jackrito]

unvote

 

[Jackrito]

Jackrito Unvote. Don't vote unless you're certain. It's lylo, scum could hammer.

Its not possible to be sure with how much of a mess this game has being. Sabrar being scum and lying about his shot night 1 makes the most sense but sure I will unvote.

 

[Deadbananas]

fontisian what was your result on Trisscar

 

[Deadbananas]

I assume sabrar shot Logic so why would scum shoot Toko. I agree Jack that people we think are confirmed are probably not, otherwise why would mafia not target either Sabrar or Fonti, and instead target someone who wasn't confirmed and had no PR.

 

[Jackrito]

I assume sabrar shot Logic so why would scum shoot Toko. I agree Jack that people we think are confirmed are probably not, otherwise why would mafia not target either Sabrar or Fonti, and instead target someone who wasn't confirmed and had no PR.

Scum Shoot Toko most likely expecting them to be a PR. They are cearly keeping the Claimed PR alive for 2 reasons, one is both are scum which I really doubt based off Fonti play and the way Z25 claimed.

The more likely world is one is scum or none are, and they are not scared of either because we are forcing them to look at the wrong people. This sort of makes me think Triss is not one since Fonti was suppose to have checked them each night and scum should not risk that if Triss was one.

Sabrar still feels semi likely since a scum vig can just shoot who town say if we are wrong and not worry. A town vig just feels weird in this setup also. That world makes you scum with them also.

On who the other scum would be I need to reveulate but I stand by Bessie is scum with Sabrar comment from yesterday.

I don't think town win this game though; unless Fonti has a check that opens this up. Too much time was wasted on the wrong people and Im to blame for that.

 

[Deadbananas]

I agree town winning at this point is unlikely, but we can try our best. I'm inclined to believe that Sabrar is not scum since I find it very unlikely a scum vig would shoot me night 1, but I can definitely see how from your perspective you could assume we would have to be scum together. Since we are in LyLo that means there are four scum right?

 

[Sabrar]

1. I shot Logic.
2. No experienced townie ever votes in LYLO with their first post. It is the dumbest move you can make.
3. There is a metric ton of evidence why I can't be scum with DB. Jack is deliberately ignoring it.

 

[Jackrito]

1. I shot Logic.
2. No experienced townie ever votes in LYLO with their first post. It is the dumbest move you can make.
3. There is a metric ton of evidence why I can't be scum with DB. Jack is deliberately ignoring it.

What is this metric ton of evidence. I will be fair I'm frusated by this entire game and have being for a while. I just can't see you both as town PR we already have 3 confirmed and a 4th maybe in Fonti. I doubt we have 6 and both of your claims make the least sense.

I could make a argument Fonti us but not going to

 

[fontisian]

I've ... been debating whether I even want to share my result. I don't trust it to have been accurate.

 

[Jackrito]

I've ... been debating whether I even want to share my result. I don't trust it to have been accurate.

may as well at this point we can still discuss it.

 

[fontisian]

:/

Trisscar checked not-vanilla. I don't know what it means.

Do not snap vote her.

 

[Jackrito]

:/

Trisscar checked not-vanilla. I don't know what it means.

Do not snap vote her.

Possible they are scum then, would have to look at entire game to see if she works in any scum team. I also don't see why you would ever be kept alive if this was the case. Since they was a decent chance you check her every night, and I doubt mafia take that chance, but who knows with this game.

 

[fontisian]

Possible they are scum then, would have to look at entire game to see if she works in any scum team. I also don't see why you would ever be kept alive if this was the case. Since they was a decent chance you check her every night, and I doubt mafia take that chance, but who knows with this game.

Yes. This feels like a trap.

There's also a non-zero chance that I'm tunneling my Trisscar townread to a loss, but. Idk. I think my check was messed with.

 

[Jackrito]

Yes. This feels like a trap.

There's also a non-zero chance that I'm tunneling my Trisscar townread to a loss, but. Idk. I think my check was messed with.

I don't feel like Triss is scum either because of many things that have happened this game, I'm going to do a reread though and see if I could be wrong with all of the info we have now. It should make it a bit easier to work things out hopefully

 

[fontisian]

Yeah. I'll go for a reread as well.

I've won games from this position before. This is not over.

 

[Jackrito]

Yeah. I'll go for a reread as well.

I've won games from this position before. This is not over.

Our biggest issue is all getting on the same page, which has being the biggest issue. we can work the game out and still lose because one of us does not agree. Without reread Sabrar is scum with Db like I said eariler but can't be too gung ho with that. if we have 4 scum left which feels likely the other two would be in Bessie, Mala Xivii Triss and Spak.

Based off the available teams left Triss makes the least sense, with any of them but worth keeping in mind at this point if Triss can work in any of those teams. I still favor Bessie and Xivii off gut reads. High chance I have being wrong on Xivii this entire game, so need to be open minded in my reread on them. Mala and Spak are the real question marks and ones I'm going to focus on more. Time to reread with this in mind.

 

[Malakandra]

Trisscar do you still claim to be vanilla town.

 

[bessie]

Trisscar checked not-vanilla. I don't know what it means.

Why can't it mean Triss is not vanilla town?

 

[Sabrar]

What is this metric ton of evidence.

The simple fact that I never bus. It has been mentioned in Flavorless, in Oasis and substantiated in this game by BoomFrog and Wiisp.
There is literally no world where I go to bed two hours before deadline on D1 and my vote is on a scum-buddy.

Obviously if fonti's result on Triss has been messed with then her result on Jack is also meaningless.

 

[Jackrito]

The simple fact that I never bus. It has been mentioned in Flavorless, in Oasis and substantiated in this game by BoomFrog and Wiisp.
There is literally no world where I go to bed two hours before deadline on D1 and my vote is on a scum-buddy.

Obviously if fonti's result on Triss has been messed with then her result on Jack is also meaningless.

Ok so let's say this first part is true who is scum here, I assume that you think it is me and Triss, but who else works in that world because we are past the point where we don't look at a team dynamic imo.

They is also some clear differences between the Fonti check on me, and the one on Triss mainly being mafia knew who was likely getting checked so can affect the result more. I can still be wrong on Triss but struggling to find a team where that makes sense on reread so far.

 

[Jackrito]

That's flawed thinking. Mafia are in a team together. You can't call multiple people scummy and not inherently link them together, unless you believe there are multiple mafia teams. You can have a scum read on person X and a town read on person Y at the same time, but given person X's interactions with Y, conclude Y is scum, or vice versa. And say there's 2 mafia left, and "I think person X and Z are "scummy"", that means I think they're on the same team. But after analysis, maybe the X and Y makes more sense.

tldr the ramble: think in scum teams and not scum individuals.

So here's where I broke down a Bananas post and then linked them to Sab. Adding bolds for emphasis.



So with this team in mind, Ran's post of game winning reads caught my eye. Here's his bit on Xiivi. Seemed good to me.



Later on, Ran asks Sab (someone I have on my scum team) what his stance on Xiivi was (someone that got put on my radar after that post). Here's that interaction.




This seemed like an easy deflection with a rebuff to avoid drawing more lines between himself and Xiivi. So by that train of thought, I'd lump in Xiivi with the other two.

quoting this because is relevant to our discussion today.

 

[Jackrito]

Sabrar and DB may not be a scum team actually while rereading day one. I still don't think both can do be town though, I just can't see why we need a town vig though, but mod gaming is a bad play tbh

 

[Jackrito]

Xivii and Bessie have some weird defending and town reading of each other during day one that is pinging me also. I want to see if this carried on the whole game.

 

[fontisian]

Notes, Posts 1-160

Why did you expect Mala to RVS? They said it was their first forum game.

Sabrar jumps to defend Mala, + Sabrar/Mala team

Anyway I'm Town Vanilla. I'd be amused if that was the general power level of every player here, but it might be unlikely, hard to tell with current description.

Trisscar's original claim, the logic behind it is quoted below. Doesn't seem calculated. Could have been a lie from town?

Why would a mentor be 'crazy'? I think we can all agree after Oasis that a mentor for Ninja is a sensible thing (no disrespect intended).

Noting this because iirc it contradicts Sabrar's reaction to Ninja's roleclaim later in the Day. Check back later.

Disagree with using this for your conclusion, you don't have your timelines correct. Ninja claimed role-related mentor in #76, after that Jackrito only replied to my question before Handorin accused them. Before #76 I also assumed that it was an out-of-game issue,

Attempts to correct Laser's push on Handorin, +town. Reinforces the push against Jack in the process, - Jack/Sabrar team

What? At that point I haven't even posted. I assumed you would say it was a joke for some unknown reason but you just don't know? Did you confuse me with someone else, similar to what you did in Oasis? Please tell me how your mind works because I won't be able to evaluate you otherwise if you keep pulling this.

Trying to evaluate 3DS, I remember reading this frustration as genuine, not sure now.

Not discord mafia, well atleast nothing text based, so I have never played anything where RVS is usual since most of what I play goes into a night phase immediately. Though I can see where you could of got that from.

Ninja, when you say they come in the thread, do you mean they would control you or they would come onto the thread as their own and you both could post? I'm inclined to believe you for now and agree that how you describe your role feels more town to me.

Trisscar, why claim role then immediately dissapear afterwords. I saw you had exams and wanted sleep but the day is long so you could of easily waited till you knew you could be on more to drop your role.

P.S. is there a way to filter posts be a specific person?

The focus on Trisscar is weird, could potentially be a teammate confused about Trisscar's claim. Would imply that Trisscar didn't talk about the claim in scumchat before going for it. This doesn't fit with the idea of her claiming knowing the team has some way to mess with a role like mine, therefore Mala/Trisscar are not scummates.

Re: Claiming and then leaving

I wanted to see how many maf would bandwagon on someone they thought they could force out early.
*waves at Boomfrog*

Nah, just that only scum would be trigger happy enough to immediately vote me after saying so. Not to mention that as vanilla town, i have no threatening abilities and therefore am only worth taking out as a vote against maf. Therefore using the vote as a way to get rid of me is probably a better use of maf's time than using any night-killing things.
Therefore the most efficient course of action is to label me as a "noob maf" and get town to off me themselves as soon as possible.

Further justification for Trisscar's claim. Arrogant, in a kind of towny way.

Personally I am worried there could be a claim vig of some sort though not positive. If there was im guessing itd be limited use.

Deadbananas , this thought process doesn't match up with your role, and generally makes no sense. Potentially a result of tmi, and knowledge of the scum abilites. Jackrito what if Sabrar is actually a claim vig, not a regular vig, with Bananas?

Unvote: Ranmaru
Vote: Pythag

If Ranmaru is town, he will not be able to resist becoming active no matter how much wants to use a different style.

Noting this, need to see if it matches up with how Xivii read Ranmaru by eod.

Much of the posting in this game will probably happen when I’m at work. For those of you that I’ve never played with, I don’t play when I’m working but I should be available after this time every day. This is a little earlier than usual for me. I will make an effort to be available around deadline, but I’m usually still working at 5.

If this is a serious vote, then you are voting for xivii because you don’t like his gambits, and because he is hard to read?
If this is actually RVS, why are you defending this vote?


I think that if this is part of 3DSNinja’s role, then it is not out of game, and Ninja is the one that brought it up. If this just means he’s being advised by someone unofficially, he should get the mod's blessing. But from post #76 it sounds like it is part of his role.

I just never really have. When I place a vote, it will be serious. I’m not really good at the small talk that usually starts off the game, though I recognize it as necessary, because we have to get talking somehow. I like to go right for analysis. Also, totally meta reason, almost all of the games on my old site tended to start while I was at work, by the time I got home, there was some actual content to analyze (and RVS was more or less over). Or I like to analyze confirmation posts. See Post #45.

My playstyle is what works for me. One thing I like about mafia is playing with different people with different playstyles. The difference, and the conflict, is what drives content. If everyone played like me, well for one thing, it would be hard to get anything going because I’m more reactive.

Well, there’s like a few more posts since I started typing this out. Back later.

Yeah, there's an interest in the push on Xivii from Pythag here. Kind of overly blatant to be scummates, but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[fontisian]

bessie Deadbananas @LogicoftheVI Malakandra Trisscar Why aren't you all voting?

****ing weird how many of the people who didn't vote early are alive now. Could be a scumteam opposed to aggressive voting in general.

 

[Jackrito]

Based off day one looking at wagons alone. Triss and Hando were the counter wagons to DB. This is important because the DB wagon was full of dead townies now so this means the counter wagons were likely scum motivated. The biggest offender of this is Spak who showed annoyance at the DB push by myself and others.

DB- Handorin, Jackrito, Pythag, 3DSNinja, Sabrar

Triss- Malakandra, bessie, Banana, Spak, Boom, Xivii



This is a good look for Sabrar because he could of easily voted Triss during all of this. You can also notice 5 of the people still alive are on the Triss wagon. I just can't see him as scum based off this also because Sabrar was also scum reading them at the time. The only way this makes sense is if scum team were heavily bussing to save DB who had a better role.

This vote count is just before the Z25 push as well which was started by Ran that train was 2 with him and laser atm so also pure.

Votes turn into this


Trisscar (4) - Malakandra, bessie, Banana, Spak
Deadbananas (4) - Handorin, Jackrito, Pythag, , Sabrar
Z25 (3) - Ranmaru, LaserGuy, 3DSNinja
Handorin (3) - Z25, Xivii Boom
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Xivii during this time went off Triss to Z25 to Hando now this is semi town points because no need to be this erratic. The Triss wagon atm is so bad though.


we end the day with this after a big mess.


Trisscar (1) - Spak
Deadbananas (1) - Sabrar
Handorin (6) - Z25, Xivii, Pythag, Jackrito, Bessie, BoomFrog
Z25 (6) - LaserGuy, Ranmaru, 3DSNinja, Malakandra, Deadbananas, Handorin
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Key things here are the Triss wagon died with most going to the Z25 wagon. Now does this mean Triss is scum and her team saw a chance to save her by swaping, or she is town and scum saw a lynch on Z25 as a better move is up for debate.

I don't feel great on Mala and Spak off this though and feel really bad about DB because his wagon was super pure.

 

[Jackrito]

Notes, Posts 1-160

Sabrar jumps to defend Mala, + Sabrar/Mala team


Trisscar's original claim, the logic behind it is quoted below. Doesn't seem calculated. Could have been a lie from town?


Noting this because iirc it contradicts Sabrar's reaction to Ninja's roleclaim later in the Day. Check back later.


Attempts to correct Laser's push on Handorin, +town. Reinforces the push against Jack in the process, - Jack/Sabrar team


Trying to evaluate 3DS, I remember reading this frustration as genuine, not sure now.


The focus on Trisscar is weird, could potentially be a teammate confused about Trisscar's claim. Would imply that Trisscar didn't talk about the claim in scumchat before going for it. This doesn't fit with the idea of her claiming knowing the team has some way to mess with a role like mine, therefore Mala/Trisscar are not scummates.



Further justification for Trisscar's claim. Arrogant, in a kind of towny way.


Deadbananas , this thought process doesn't match up with your role, and generally makes no sense. Potentially a result of tmi, and knowledge of the scum abilites. Jackrito what if Sabrar is actually a claim vig, not a regular vig, with Bananas?


Noting this, need to see if it matches up with how Xivii read Ranmaru by eod.


Yeah, there's an interest in the push on Xivii from Pythag here. Kind of overly blatant to be scummates, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Sabrar being a claim vig has being on my mind all day, and is a real concern since both of his shots have being on people that claimed. He also can't kill you, or me because it makes no sense for the town vig to do so. If mafia he could just get his team to shoot a scum read person to counteract this though. I feel based off the vote counts just posted Sab is unlikely on a team with DB.

 

[fontisian]

Idk if this chain of posts come from scummates. Mala specifically calling Trisscar out on ruining her own plan I think doesn't come from a teammate.

I suppose I could vote Boomfrog or Handorin...hm

Eh sure

Vote: Boomfrog

Logic seems to be trying to solve the game and feels town.

Trisscar is being hedgy which is typical of scum IMO.

Letting themselves get bullied into voting allows them an easier out later if questioned and is scum indicative.
Vote Trisscar

Nah I just wanted to wait a while longer and see if Boomfrog got any more aggressive. But if this particular server does a lot of early pressure voting then I guess why not?

Also not sure what you mean by "hedgy".

hedgy is being unwilling to commit. By saying you wanted to see if boomfrog got more aggressive do you mean after you voted him he would get more aggressive or before you voted him?

Before. Figured the worry about why I wasn't moving would cause anxiety.

So wouldn't being pressured into voting him ruin that plan.

Who are your two top town and scum reads rn.

Yup, makes me sad. But people were wondering and it wasn't a high priority.

Also mildly distracted atm cause essays and housing things, but probably Boomfrog and or Handorin (apologies if misspelling) as maf, and no one as town because constant vigilance.

 

[Jackrito]

I don't think Triss is scum here, I just can't see it. Bessie and Xivii as scummates feels very real to me though as said eariler. I also want to say Sabrar is town and DB is scum. In that world DB most likely scum mate is Spak based off day one. I look at rest of game tomorrow

 

[fontisian]

Sabrar being a claim vig has being on my mind all day, and is a real concern since both of his shots have being on people that claimed. He also can't kill you, or me because it makes no sense for the town vig to do so. If mafia he could just get his team to shoot a scum read person to counteract this though. I feel based off the vote counts just posted Sab is unlikely on a team with DB.

What if all of Triss, DB and Sabrar are mafia? Or just DB and Sabrar, but Sab was bussing. That fifth slot on the wagon is one of the most likely spots for scum to be on partners, if they feel like they need the cred. And if Sabrar is the claim vig, then he'd be the scum who'd most want to bus, for the credit to get to late game.

 

[fontisian]

Looking at this for a moment:

 

[fontisian]

Trisscar (1) - Spak
Deadbananas (1) - Sabrar
Handorin (6) - Z25, Xivii, Pythag, Jackrito, Bessie, BoomFrog
Z25 (6) - LaserGuy, Ranmaru, 3DSNinja, Malakandra, Deadbananas, Handorin
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

... **** me, this is not useful information. Like, there's probably 1-2 on Handorin (Xivii, Bessie), probably 1-2 on my slot (Mala, bananas) and probably 1-2 in the off wagon people (Spak, Sabrar, Trisscar). Trisscar looks the worst off pure analysis, because Bessie wasn't even a wagon at eod, whereas Spak and Sabrar may have just had their votes get left behind as the wagons shifted. The only thing this really proves is that Xivii, Jack and Bessie aren't all scum, which, yeah, I was already pretty sure on that.

 

[fontisian]

Trisscar (4) - Malakandra, bessie, Banana, Spak
Deadbananas (4) - Handorin, Jackrito, Pythag, Sabrar
Z25 (3) - Ranmaru, LaserGuy, 3DSNinja
Handorin (3) - Z25, Xivii Boom
Bessie (1) - Trisscar

Yeah, Jack is right, Trisscar doesn't make sense as scum here, when so many potential scum were on the wagon, and so many town on other town. A Trisscar/Xivii/Sabrar + 1 (probably Bananas) would be the only team that would really make sense with Triss.

 

[Jackrito]

What if all of Triss, DB and Sabrar are mafia? Or just DB and Sabrar, but Sab was bussing. That fifth slot on the wagon is one of the most likely spots for scum to be on partners, if they feel like they need the cred. And if Sabrar is the claim vig, then he'd be the scum who'd most want to bus, for the credit to get to late game.

I mean maybe that's possible this is why mafia is a pain so many variables. I feel Sabrar vote makes no sense though of a buss attempt based off how it all changes later.

 

[fontisian]

A Trisscar/Xivii/Sabrar/Bananas team would be desperate to move the votes off of Triss and Bananas and onto me and Handorin. They'd probably want to split votes to avoid suspicion. Yet Sabrar's vote didn't move off of Bananas and Trisscar's stayed on Bessie. Xivii and Bananas did end up on opposite town wagon. Were Sab and Triss both just not around to swap votes at eod?

 

[Jackrito]

The Z25 and Handorin trains really messed stuff up now. since trains before were on possible scum.

 

[fontisian]

1. I shot Logic.
2. No experienced townie ever votes in LYLO with their first post. It is the dumbest move you can make.
3. There is a metric ton of evidence why I can't be scum with DB. Jack is deliberately ignoring it.

Sabrar , talk about this metric ton of evidence, please.

 

[fontisian]

The Z25 and Handorin trains really messed stuff up now. since trains before were on possible scum.

The question is did they mess things up by chance, or were they orchestrated.

 

[Jackrito]

A Trisscar/Xivii/Sabrar/Bananas team would be desperate to move the votes off of Triss and Bananas and onto me and Handorin. They'd probably want to split votes to avoid suspicion. Yet Sabrar's vote didn't move off of Bananas and Trisscar's stayed on Bessie. Xivii and Bananas did end up on opposite town wagon. Were Sab and Triss both just not around to swap votes at eod?

Sab was not around we know that for sure. I feel Triss vote makes no sense because play was to self pres there onto DB. Espically if not around EOD

 

[Jackrito]

The question is did they mess things up by chance, or were they orchestrated.

Handorin was orchestrated imo. Xivii tried to start it eariler when wagons were Triss and dB. Z25 felt more chance and town led by Ran early