Proverbs
Smash Lord
I'm here to bring up the subject of suicide and the rationality/irrationality of it (or, if you prefer, the morality/immorality of it). First, let me clear a few things up about my personal beliefs so this doesn't get into a discussion of who 'believes' what. I want this to be based on logic and reasoning.
As most of you probably know, I'm a Christian. The Bible pretty clearly makes suicide out to be a sin (1 Corinthians 3:17). For that reason, I believe committing suicide is wrong and will do whatever I can in my power to dissuade anyone from committing suicide. I also want people to know some of my background with the issue: I've had a good number of friends be suicidal, some who were put in a mental hospital for a while because of it. I have been suicidal in the past, prior to becoming a Christian, and have attempted suicide on a number of occasions. As you can infer, I never succeeded and today have a much different outlook on the subject.
However, my question to you today is, outside of a religious text, can we really claim that suicide is something immoral or irrational--something that we should dissuade people from? Is there something intrinsically negative about suicide that we should stop people from doing?
I ask that you leave your religious beliefs at the door, and I do my best to do the same as well. From here on out, take nothing I say to be from "the Christian perspective" for I am merely trying to reason this issue out. That being said, let me begin with my opening remarks:
I personally am not yet convinced that there is anything intrinsically negative about suicide. The reason why one would try to dissuade someone from harming themselves in other ways is because it makes this life unpleasurable (apparently that's not a real word, but I'm using it anyway). I try to dissuade someone from doing drugs because most put them into a bad place in life. I try to stop someone from cutting themselves because they're not really getting better emotionally or mentally. I try to stop a child from touching a hot stove because his hand will be burned--all of these things have effects that are worth stopping merely for the reason that they make the life of the person unpleasurable.
However, if we are leaving our religious views at the doorstep, we must act as if there is no religion or God to judge this sort of action. Therefore, nothing happens after you die--or if anything does happen, it is completely unaffected by suicide (in this scenario). So, suicide would not make this life unpleasurable at all. In fact, it might free many people from great pain--whether it be physical, emotional, or mental. Indeed, if someone was merely 'bored' of this life, committing suicide should be a 'personal choice'. Right?
But why is it that even as you read this, you might cringe at the thought of suicide being a normal and acceptable option in life? Is there something really irrational or immoral about committing suicide?
Some might say that it harms the people around them. To that I have two answers: Do these people care enough for the person to want his good instead of their own? That is the first. The second is if we decide to take the concept that utility defines 'morality'. If that is the case, then we must define why utility is any more moral than a lack of utility. It merely increases happiness, which, from a very unbiased perspective, is no better an emotion than depression. The only benefit it has is mental and physical. But what do the mind and body matter, in the end? If we do not care about the mind or the body, 'utility' becomes not utilitarian. This is why I disagree with that ethical theory, as utility can be ever-changing unless there is a real 'good' deep down and a real 'evil'. However, this is straying back to beliefs, which I said I would leave alone. But I did want to include this, so that even utility as a moral belief would be left out.
So, my question to you is: Can we prove that suicide is wrong/bad/irrational/immoral?
I'm mostly undecided, but I am leaning toward the idea that there is no proof for it without the existence of a God or a real, objective morality. However, I am more than open to having my opinion changed.
And with that, I open this topic for discussion.
As most of you probably know, I'm a Christian. The Bible pretty clearly makes suicide out to be a sin (1 Corinthians 3:17). For that reason, I believe committing suicide is wrong and will do whatever I can in my power to dissuade anyone from committing suicide. I also want people to know some of my background with the issue: I've had a good number of friends be suicidal, some who were put in a mental hospital for a while because of it. I have been suicidal in the past, prior to becoming a Christian, and have attempted suicide on a number of occasions. As you can infer, I never succeeded and today have a much different outlook on the subject.
However, my question to you today is, outside of a religious text, can we really claim that suicide is something immoral or irrational--something that we should dissuade people from? Is there something intrinsically negative about suicide that we should stop people from doing?
I ask that you leave your religious beliefs at the door, and I do my best to do the same as well. From here on out, take nothing I say to be from "the Christian perspective" for I am merely trying to reason this issue out. That being said, let me begin with my opening remarks:
I personally am not yet convinced that there is anything intrinsically negative about suicide. The reason why one would try to dissuade someone from harming themselves in other ways is because it makes this life unpleasurable (apparently that's not a real word, but I'm using it anyway). I try to dissuade someone from doing drugs because most put them into a bad place in life. I try to stop someone from cutting themselves because they're not really getting better emotionally or mentally. I try to stop a child from touching a hot stove because his hand will be burned--all of these things have effects that are worth stopping merely for the reason that they make the life of the person unpleasurable.
However, if we are leaving our religious views at the doorstep, we must act as if there is no religion or God to judge this sort of action. Therefore, nothing happens after you die--or if anything does happen, it is completely unaffected by suicide (in this scenario). So, suicide would not make this life unpleasurable at all. In fact, it might free many people from great pain--whether it be physical, emotional, or mental. Indeed, if someone was merely 'bored' of this life, committing suicide should be a 'personal choice'. Right?
But why is it that even as you read this, you might cringe at the thought of suicide being a normal and acceptable option in life? Is there something really irrational or immoral about committing suicide?
Some might say that it harms the people around them. To that I have two answers: Do these people care enough for the person to want his good instead of their own? That is the first. The second is if we decide to take the concept that utility defines 'morality'. If that is the case, then we must define why utility is any more moral than a lack of utility. It merely increases happiness, which, from a very unbiased perspective, is no better an emotion than depression. The only benefit it has is mental and physical. But what do the mind and body matter, in the end? If we do not care about the mind or the body, 'utility' becomes not utilitarian. This is why I disagree with that ethical theory, as utility can be ever-changing unless there is a real 'good' deep down and a real 'evil'. However, this is straying back to beliefs, which I said I would leave alone. But I did want to include this, so that even utility as a moral belief would be left out.
So, my question to you is: Can we prove that suicide is wrong/bad/irrational/immoral?
I'm mostly undecided, but I am leaning toward the idea that there is no proof for it without the existence of a God or a real, objective morality. However, I am more than open to having my opinion changed.
And with that, I open this topic for discussion.