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Submit your entry for the Top 8 Custom Sets of [Sonic]
- Thread starter DunnoBro
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Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
If the first Spring didn't disappear as soon as you used the second one, THEN I'd consider using it to gimp Villager.
But since that's not the case, good luck trying to use it to gimp him AND surviving.
But since that's not the case, good luck trying to use it to gimp him AND surviving.
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i luh u 2 espy
but let's let the people have their bad customs if they want them
You're not going to be gimping a good Villager no matter how many springs you get. Better to just keep hitting him til he dies.
I honestly am trying to at least think of possible usages. I was almost into the idea Burning Spin Dash until all the reasons we brought up earlier that I won't reiterate.
Hammer Spin Dash is the only one I kind of defend because of it's vertical combo potential and other weird utilities. BT was doing a good job exploring it and he's the only reason I still somewhat defend it (but he also validated why I hate Burning Spin Dash).
So far it seems no one is even mentioning the Down-B customs, so there's that, and really Double Spring is the only custom I find remotely interesting outside of HSD. Homing Attack is actually pretty good now and the custom versions just feel really limiting and too straightforward.
The double spring gimp is just an idea that Trent and I joke about all the time but constantly forget to test. Maybe someday.
I honestly forgot that the first one disappears after starting the second one. Definitely would make it harder, but stiiiiiiilll I wanna see it lol
So yeah, my vote is for any combination that includes HSD or Double Spring. That's all I got.
I should really get around to unlocking more.
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Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
Oh, trust me, I really, really, really wanted that Double Spring gimp to be true but after failing numerous attempts at gimping a Lv1 Villager in training mode, I've just given up hope.
On a side note, the damage for Springing Headbutt has been increased in the Wii U version (dunno about the 3DS - probably not, otherwise it'd be noted in the patch thread). Still doesn't make up for the loss of height and longer cooldown (when compared to the Spring), IMO.
As for SC customs.. Auto SC is stupid when used in conjunction with HSD due to the Spinshot nerf but is okay if used by itself (not doing a SCJ by accident is good enough)
Gravitational Charge is.. meh. Maybe we can use it to screw with some characters' recoveries, like Ness's or Fox's (and Falco's), but even then it's seems to be really wobbly and unreliable.
Surprise Attack is good for edgeguarding but fails everywhere else and Stomp is just too weak to be considered a better alternative than.. any other edgeguarding move, really.
B: 1
Side B: 1, 2
Up B: 1, 2 (for team smash)
Down B: 1, 2 (but not together with SD2) and maybe 3
On a side note, the damage for Springing Headbutt has been increased in the Wii U version (dunno about the 3DS - probably not, otherwise it'd be noted in the patch thread). Still doesn't make up for the loss of height and longer cooldown (when compared to the Spring), IMO.
As for SC customs.. Auto SC is stupid when used in conjunction with HSD due to the Spinshot nerf but is okay if used by itself (not doing a SCJ by accident is good enough)
Gravitational Charge is.. meh. Maybe we can use it to screw with some characters' recoveries, like Ness's or Fox's (and Falco's), but even then it's seems to be really wobbly and unreliable.
Surprise Attack is good for edgeguarding but fails everywhere else and Stomp is just too weak to be considered a better alternative than.. any other edgeguarding move, really.
B: 1
Side B: 1, 2
Up B: 1, 2 (for team smash)
Down B: 1, 2 (but not together with SD2) and maybe 3
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oh :'(
good thing both versions have the same gameplay and mechanics am i right or what people
What does auto do again other than coddle you so you don't have to mash a button?
Gravitational is another one I haven't looked enough into. I just don't know a lot of things I could do by pulling my opponent towards me when I already have tools to close the gap to begin with.
I'd prefer if it pushed people away... Imagine someone about to hit you and you just start charging. Moves them so they can't hit you, and then you release the spin to punish. That'd be ****ing hilarious.
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
I think that's all it does, lol
That'd be GODLIKE. They should totally give us this and scrap all other customs.Gravitational is another one I haven't looked enough into. I just don't know a lot of things I could do by pulling my opponent towards me when I already have tools to close the gap to begin with.
I'd prefer if it pushed people away... Imagine someone about to hit you and you just start charging. Moves them so they can't hit you, and then you release the spin to punish. That'd be ****ing hilarious.
---
edit: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/
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DunnoBro
The Free-est
Alright been testing myself now. 2211 seems best to me.
In addition to the previous cons of burning spindash mentioned, it also makes the ISDJ useless. For both spin dash AND charge. Not sure why it effects both, but it does.
It might have a niche in certain matchups, but that's it.
Surprise is actually REALLY good in my opinion. It's an effective edgeguard/anti-edgeguard tool that boosts sonic UP if there's no target, and the shorter distance means less chance of him following an opponent too far down. This also can be used as a means to stall in the air for a late spring drop.
Another note, there may be potential with double spring for gimping options due to this stalling method. And it also helps you recover more safely, but again it would likely be very matchup specific.
It does very little damage, yes, but there are true combos and follow-ups with it, along with more consistent punishing of grounded enemies.
Standard homing attack is pretty awful in my opinion, only can consistently get a hit with the quick version which is an overall inferior version of this. The situations you'll get the kill with the strong hit of homing in a real match seems like higher risk than reward.
Double spring is awful, you guys were right. Only default is worth using.
Hammer spin dash isn't technically directly superior to regular spindash. Essentially, you're sacrificing damage for kill and movement options. If you use hammer, use spin charge to cover the options spin dash used to.
It also provides more movement and edgeguarding options. It is a shame we can't get that easy 30% anymore, but killing becomes easier.
All but default spin charge is worthless. End of story.
In addition to the previous cons of burning spindash mentioned, it also makes the ISDJ useless. For both spin dash AND charge. Not sure why it effects both, but it does.
It might have a niche in certain matchups, but that's it.
Surprise is actually REALLY good in my opinion. It's an effective edgeguard/anti-edgeguard tool that boosts sonic UP if there's no target, and the shorter distance means less chance of him following an opponent too far down. This also can be used as a means to stall in the air for a late spring drop.
Another note, there may be potential with double spring for gimping options due to this stalling method. And it also helps you recover more safely, but again it would likely be very matchup specific.
It does very little damage, yes, but there are true combos and follow-ups with it, along with more consistent punishing of grounded enemies.
Standard homing attack is pretty awful in my opinion, only can consistently get a hit with the quick version which is an overall inferior version of this. The situations you'll get the kill with the strong hit of homing in a real match seems like higher risk than reward.
Double spring is awful, you guys were right. Only default is worth using.
Hammer spin dash isn't technically directly superior to regular spindash. Essentially, you're sacrificing damage for kill and movement options. If you use hammer, use spin charge to cover the options spin dash used to.
It also provides more movement and edgeguarding options. It is a shame we can't get that easy 30% anymore, but killing becomes easier.
All but default spin charge is worthless. End of story.
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I agree that many (read: most) of the customs have no current advantage over the defaults, but the main purpose in researching them is to be prepared if they receive buffs at any point down the line that may bring them a suddenly integral usage into gameplay. That way Sonic mains aren't caught unawares if one patch Burning Spin Dash becomes preferable, or Double Spring Jump receives a mechanic boost (like both springs being out at the same time, or a slight vertical increase).
Davis-Lightheart
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Eh... this thread doesn't sound like it needs it, but this is from Reddit research:
2 upvotes
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DunnoBro
The Free-est
r/smashbros is honestly only good for entertainment/quick tips and not in-depth discussion. (like all of reddit)
All 3s but surprise are garbage. "s3 is powerful" but garbage, inconsistent and extremely 1-dimensional. It has a niche in the ness/robin matchup maybe. It ruins your jump and makes it extremely unsafe on shield, and you can't punish multi-jumpers in the air or aerial mix-ups.
U3 covers amazingly few options that surprise and default + upair/nair don't, and the hitbox is so small and weak, puts you back into neutral most of the time, it's just awful. And gravitational has no real use that can be realized more often the pros of the default.
All 3s but surprise are garbage. "s3 is powerful" but garbage, inconsistent and extremely 1-dimensional. It has a niche in the ness/robin matchup maybe. It ruins your jump and makes it extremely unsafe on shield, and you can't punish multi-jumpers in the air or aerial mix-ups.
U3 covers amazingly few options that surprise and default + upair/nair don't, and the hitbox is so small and weak, puts you back into neutral most of the time, it's just awful. And gravitational has no real use that can be realized more often the pros of the default.
Davis-Lightheart
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You can say what you want about the individual responses, but I see value in all opinions, and while some of these may be wacky, I think even reddit is worth getting something out of.
DunnoBro
The Free-est
Well I'll admit I exaggerated a bit but r/smashbros has definitely produced more "...wut?" moments reading responses on there than here.
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
Nope, I don't think so. That's all there is to it, AFAIK.
Been testing stuff with Surprise Attack. Well, it does have its uses and can combo well from a SCJ and a fully charged SDR. Plus, yes, it's a better edgeguarding tool than HA is.
I'd save it for non projectile spammers, though. HA is still too good for those (using Surprise Attack on a grounded opponent is begging to be punished).
Been testing stuff with Surprise Attack. Well, it does have its uses and can combo well from a SCJ and a fully charged SDR. Plus, yes, it's a better edgeguarding tool than HA is.
I'd save it for non projectile spammers, though. HA is still too good for those (using Surprise Attack on a grounded opponent is begging to be punished).
BlueTerrorist
Smash Ace
Since Nebulous is allowing customs again, I'm looking into some of other Sonic's customs that I didn't experiment much with yet. I'm messing with Gravitational Charge and Double Spring currently.i luh u 2 espy
but let's let the people have their bad customs if they want them
I honestly am trying to at least think of possible usages. I was almost into the idea Burning Spin Dash until all the reasons we brought up earlier that I won't reiterate.
Hammer Spin Dash is the only one I kind of defend because of it's vertical combo potential and other weird utilities. BT was doing a good job exploring it and he's the only reason I still somewhat defend it (but he also validated why I hate Burning Spin Dash).
So far it seems no one is even mentioning the Down-B customs, so there's that, and really Double Spring is the only custom I find remotely interesting outside of HSD. Homing Attack is actually pretty good now and the custom versions just feel really limiting and too straightforward.
The double spring gimp is just an idea that Trent and I joke about all the time but constantly forget to test. Maybe someday.
I honestly forgot that the first one disappears after starting the second one. Definitely would make it harder, but stiiiiiiilll I wanna see it lol
So yeah, my vote is for any combination that includes HSD or Double Spring. That's all I got.
I should really get around to unlocking more.
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Do you know how often they're going to be running custom tournaments? I know the most reason one allowed it.
Curious to see what you come up with. Has anyone tried our Villager idea with Double Spring yet lol
DunnoBro
The Free-est
Gravitational charge seems useless. It's properties and effects are interesting, however with the general usage the benefit would only really arise from using it relatively far off stage, not too deep out or far down since you need your double jump to cancel it or cide... Honestly spring seems better every time.
*MIGHT have a use with b-reverse/wave bouncing. So you can run out with full momentum, then charge to bring yourself back in and hopefully catch people in the pull or the
Double spring however is interesting. It's a less radical and easily punished combo breaker and can make gimps easier/possible with more chances and baiting. However, vs Villager it doesn't seem like it can reliably gimp him. Also, since villager has some really gross ledge games, I wouldn't really want to give up invincibility.
It also becomes interesting with the spindash > spring option. As you stay low enough to capitalize on the tech chase the spring makes at mid-percents, and if they roll you can drop another spring. And landing is overall easier, since you have another spring to crap out. It might be the best spindash option on shield.
I'd say it's better against diddy, sheik, the marios, essentially combo-centric characters and/or with recoveries vulnerable to spring and also can't really take advantage of your lack of invincibility.
And hammer spindash seems directly superior to me, aside from damage output. But even if it's not, it does help keep problematic characters out of rage by making killing easier. So the diddy, lucario, and duck hunt matchups should be less iffy about comebacks with their silly rage modes hindered. (Also in the DHD matchup, spindash goes at a better angle to avoid his projectiles)
*MIGHT have a use with b-reverse/wave bouncing. So you can run out with full momentum, then charge to bring yourself back in and hopefully catch people in the pull or the
Double spring however is interesting. It's a less radical and easily punished combo breaker and can make gimps easier/possible with more chances and baiting. However, vs Villager it doesn't seem like it can reliably gimp him. Also, since villager has some really gross ledge games, I wouldn't really want to give up invincibility.
It also becomes interesting with the spindash > spring option. As you stay low enough to capitalize on the tech chase the spring makes at mid-percents, and if they roll you can drop another spring. And landing is overall easier, since you have another spring to crap out. It might be the best spindash option on shield.
I'd say it's better against diddy, sheik, the marios, essentially combo-centric characters and/or with recoveries vulnerable to spring and also can't really take advantage of your lack of invincibility.
And hammer spindash seems directly superior to me, aside from damage output. But even if it's not, it does help keep problematic characters out of rage by making killing easier. So the diddy, lucario, and duck hunt matchups should be less iffy about comebacks with their silly rage modes hindered. (Also in the DHD matchup, spindash goes at a better angle to avoid his projectiles)
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SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
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Posted this in another thread, but I believe Sonic's best 2 customs (matchup dependent) are HSD and double spring. Double spring gimps are real against some characters (Luigi's or Villager for example) and the non-linear nature helps defend against straight down gimping attacks (hydrants or bowling balls for example). HSD has already been discussed at length.
I have no input on the competitive viability of his down B customs. The only major difference I notice with gravitational spin is the jumping height is much lower.
I can't find a purpose for either of his custom neutral B yet.
Burning spin dash is absurdly slow and laggy on shields. I don't know why Id choose this special, other than for extra style points. I don't understand its competitive viability.
Headbutt up B is paltry damage, slow speed, and short distance. It does open up a couple new combo opportunities but the downsides, at the moment, outweigh any advantages I believe.
So on that note, I believe we should absolutely have these sets:
1111
1221
1211
1121
I'm still experimenting with the rest.
I have no input on the competitive viability of his down B customs. The only major difference I notice with gravitational spin is the jumping height is much lower.
I can't find a purpose for either of his custom neutral B yet.
Burning spin dash is absurdly slow and laggy on shields. I don't know why Id choose this special, other than for extra style points. I don't understand its competitive viability.
Headbutt up B is paltry damage, slow speed, and short distance. It does open up a couple new combo opportunities but the downsides, at the moment, outweigh any advantages I believe.
So on that note, I believe we should absolutely have these sets:
1111
1221
1211
1121
I'm still experimenting with the rest.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
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Actually it turns out I'm wrong about double spring vs villager. The springs don't have the damage threshold to pop balloons.
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Another one of my casual reminders that the springs in double spring have awful knockbock.
BT tried doing some janky set-ups and edgeguards with it since it can bring people in but... idk seems like it could be situational or just gimmicky.
^^
I think the cons extremely outweigh the pros.
Pros being damage output and eating projectiles. It could have possible use in certain match-ups...
There it is.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
i think 2331 is a viable set to have.
Stomp- this move provides us with a weaker but much more reliable meteor smash option for edge guarding vs characters with linear recoveries.
Burning spin dash- Completely ignores a lot of projectiles such as all of Megamans projectiles as well as Robins and lasers from the spacies. Deals more damage than the normal spin dash and the fact it has a smaller hop allows us to landing and followup out of a jump with things like RAR Bair or a jump canceled Usmash for KO's.
springing headbutt- trades off a bit of vertical height for a hitbox which in some MUs can allow us to intercept some attempted egde guards it can also combo out of burning spin dash jumped uair into bair for a 47% combo at low %.
In the case of not carrying about stomp for having normal HA we could have 1231 and if springing headbutt isn't needed for a specific MU such as vs characters like rosalina you could opt for 2311
I don't really see a use for auto spin charge given that while it does auto charge it takes longer to cancel in the case that you want to use spin charge as a feint and double spring i'd only say belongs on a set with hammer spin dash due to the reduction in height that we could makeup for with HSD
Stomp- this move provides us with a weaker but much more reliable meteor smash option for edge guarding vs characters with linear recoveries.
Burning spin dash- Completely ignores a lot of projectiles such as all of Megamans projectiles as well as Robins and lasers from the spacies. Deals more damage than the normal spin dash and the fact it has a smaller hop allows us to landing and followup out of a jump with things like RAR Bair or a jump canceled Usmash for KO's.
springing headbutt- trades off a bit of vertical height for a hitbox which in some MUs can allow us to intercept some attempted egde guards it can also combo out of burning spin dash jumped uair into bair for a 47% combo at low %.
In the case of not carrying about stomp for having normal HA we could have 1231 and if springing headbutt isn't needed for a specific MU such as vs characters like rosalina you could opt for 2311
I don't really see a use for auto spin charge given that while it does auto charge it takes longer to cancel in the case that you want to use spin charge as a feint and double spring i'd only say belongs on a set with hammer spin dash due to the reduction in height that we could makeup for with HSD
Phoenix_Dark
Smash Lord
1212 is all I care about. The rest are booty.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
so as far as custom sets go i think this list looks alright (listed these in hypothetical importance)
1211
1311
1212
2111
2211
2331
1131
1231
1331
1221
1211
1311
1212
2111
2211
2331
1131
1231
1331
1221
PhantomTriforce
Smash Cadet
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My favorite Sonic set at the moment is 3112. I feel like Surprise and Automatic are pure upgrades over the normals. I'd like to know why everyone is avoiding Automatic so much, there's nothing wrong with the move, plus you can still charge it up by mashing if you happen to do that by habit.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
The thing with auto spin charge is that your forced to charge the move from the initial button press. where in some cases you would want to simply tap the button once to use spin charge as a feint. also the bigger the charge on down the b the longer it takes for the move to cancel if you decide not to release the attack and with it charging almost instantly your automatically forcing yourself to have to commit to the full cooldown it's charge has. As for surprise attack the fact that the move is unsafe on hit as well as weaker than the normal homing attack gives it little to no merit in using it over the other 2 neutral specials.
PhantomTriforce
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Ok I see your point about Automatic. But for surprise, I still think it's fine because regular is also unsafe on hit and there's a less chance that the opponent has time to shield it but there's a lot of time to prepare for regular.
NegaMawile
Smash Cadet
I don't really have a set but Stomp, I feel needs some love. It's terrible to use on stage of course, but it's a great edge guard against linear recoveries (in particular Donkey Kong's who will theoretically get more use with customs.) as well as all recovery customs that leave out the hit box. The Meteor doesn't have to be strong to put the fear of it in the mind of the opponent.
I also feel like Surprise! is the better Neutral against opponents who can mix up their recoveries. As it can cut off options much better than standard. I use this against Samus as well as Fox/Falco. It also has the recovery buff if fully missed which is writer than throwing me into an abyss.
Hammer is my preferred Side 2 because of the amount of things I can do out of it. As well as helping mix up recovery a bit, as long as I have my second jump.
Gravitational is okay, no opinion on Burning, and if they want to baby me with auto I'll let them.
Spring Jump is really the only Up Special worth it I feel. Maybe Double Spring for mixing up recoveries but I can't really be sure what it helps besides that and gimping I suppose. It also limits the follow ups sonic has. Which is bad.
Springing Headbutt cool down makes me cry a bit.
I was playing with a Stomp/Hammer/SpringJump/Auto Set and it did okay for me. It was comfortable against characters with poor recoveries.
Would Burning Spin Dash have a benefit in the Wii Fit Trainer Match Up?
I also feel like Surprise! is the better Neutral against opponents who can mix up their recoveries. As it can cut off options much better than standard. I use this against Samus as well as Fox/Falco. It also has the recovery buff if fully missed which is writer than throwing me into an abyss.
Hammer is my preferred Side 2 because of the amount of things I can do out of it. As well as helping mix up recovery a bit, as long as I have my second jump.
Gravitational is okay, no opinion on Burning, and if they want to baby me with auto I'll let them.
Spring Jump is really the only Up Special worth it I feel. Maybe Double Spring for mixing up recoveries but I can't really be sure what it helps besides that and gimping I suppose. It also limits the follow ups sonic has. Which is bad.
Springing Headbutt cool down makes me cry a bit.
I was playing with a Stomp/Hammer/SpringJump/Auto Set and it did okay for me. It was comfortable against characters with poor recoveries.
Would Burning Spin Dash have a benefit in the Wii Fit Trainer Match Up?
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
yes burning spin dash would let you just phase through sun salutation
ROOOOY!
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I still don't get BSD. As soon as people realise that projectiles don't work they'll just resort to shield. Then they'll realise how unsafe it is on shield. Then they'll realise you should be using defaults and you'll lose.
Also I don't get how it'll help against characters with bad projectiles like WFT. They're not gonna throw out a projectile (because there's a deceptive amount of cool down on both of his/hers/potatoes) unless you're at a distance. And why are we spindashing at a character from distance with an unspammable projectile? Sonic can get around projectiles just fine without resorting to a predictable, slow approach. Is there something I'm missing? I just don't understand why people are jumping on this bandwagon, this application at least doesn't make sense to me.
Also I don't get how it'll help against characters with bad projectiles like WFT. They're not gonna throw out a projectile (because there's a deceptive amount of cool down on both of his/hers/potatoes) unless you're at a distance. And why are we spindashing at a character from distance with an unspammable projectile? Sonic can get around projectiles just fine without resorting to a predictable, slow approach. Is there something I'm missing? I just don't understand why people are jumping on this bandwagon, this application at least doesn't make sense to me.
NegaMawile
Smash Cadet
I was just asking about WFT because I didn't see a direct application. Sonics customs, as I'm sure you're already aware of are more match up dependent than upgrades (Besides the springs which are doodoo butter). I look at Sonic like I'd look at Wii Fit Trainer. Sonic is a better character with less defining but still match up dependent customs while WFT is a worse character with great match up dependent customs
VKatana
Smash Journeyman
As far as I've found so far, default Sonic is still better than any of his custom moves. The only custom loadout I have that I use seriously is vanilla with Stomp and Auto-Charge equipped. Does anyone know what the advantages of using the auto-charging down B are? Does it just give the move the same properties as vanilla side b?
John12346
Smash Master
Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!
We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.
Preliminary Custom Sets:
1211 1311 1121 1221 1321 2111 3111 2211 3211 2221
Of course, it was very difficult to create custom sets for Sonic, as he's not really rocking a lot of notable Custom Specials to begin with, but I did what I could from your discussion. It seemed like the best way to handle Sonic was through various combinations of Homing Attacks, Spin Dashes, and Springs, although I really doubt any of them are going to affect how you guys play very heavily. I'll also note that while Springing Headbutt and Gravitational Charge do have some niche uses, I did not see you guys express any real interest for them, so I left them out. If I'm mistaken and you want some sets including them, just make a mention about it and we'll see what we can do.
I also did not add Auto Charge because it is effectively the same move as the original Spin Charge, except now you have less ability to control the charge, and how much charge the attack gets. It's effectively a downgrade, and adding it would only add unnecessary padding to the sets. If you really want to have it added, again, just speak up now and we'll do what we can.
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!
We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.
Preliminary Custom Sets:
1211 1311 1121 1221 1321 2111 3111 2211 3211 2221
Of course, it was very difficult to create custom sets for Sonic, as he's not really rocking a lot of notable Custom Specials to begin with, but I did what I could from your discussion. It seemed like the best way to handle Sonic was through various combinations of Homing Attacks, Spin Dashes, and Springs, although I really doubt any of them are going to affect how you guys play very heavily. I'll also note that while Springing Headbutt and Gravitational Charge do have some niche uses, I did not see you guys express any real interest for them, so I left them out. If I'm mistaken and you want some sets including them, just make a mention about it and we'll see what we can do.
I also did not add Auto Charge because it is effectively the same move as the original Spin Charge, except now you have less ability to control the charge, and how much charge the attack gets. It's effectively a downgrade, and adding it would only add unnecessary padding to the sets. If you really want to have it added, again, just speak up now and we'll do what we can.
Sonic:
1, 1/2/3, 1/2, 1 and niche 2XXX and 3XXX sets
1211 1311 1121 1221 1321
Niche: 2111 3111 2211 3211 2221
Note: Do you want any Springing Headbutt or Gravitational Charge sets?
1, 1/2/3, 1/2, 1 and niche 2XXX and 3XXX sets
1211 1311 1121 1221 1321
Niche: 2111 3111 2211 3211 2221
Note: Do you want any Springing Headbutt or Gravitational Charge sets?
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kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
I pretty sure these sets are ones that most sonic's here can agree on. At least from the discussion we've had thus far.
1211
1311
1212
2111
2211
2331
1131
1231
1331
1221
1211
1311
1212
2111
2211
2331
1131
1231
1331
1221
NegaMawile
Smash Cadet
Isn't 1-2-1-2 Hanmer Spin Dash and Auto Charge?
Isn't Auto Charge a worse version of Spin Charge, a straight Downgrade? At least gravitational charge can effect spacing.
At any rate, I'd like to vouch for a Surprise Attack Set, it's a lot better, in my unprofessional opinion, off stage. As it is safer and quicker.
3-2-2-1 for off stage MixUps maybe?
Isn't Auto Charge a worse version of Spin Charge, a straight Downgrade? At least gravitational charge can effect spacing.
At any rate, I'd like to vouch for a Surprise Attack Set, it's a lot better, in my unprofessional opinion, off stage. As it is safer and quicker.
3-2-2-1 for off stage MixUps maybe?
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
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Why do people like stomp so much? And dislike surprise so much? What is it that Im missing?
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I pretty much cosign to not including Auto Spin Charge in any set at all ever. It offers nothing other than less button presses which imo just makes it more imprecise and isn't enough of a difference to waste having in sets.
I personally used 1113 (Gravity Spin Charge) at my last tournament and didn't mind it, as it's the most unobtrusive custom Sonic has. It just gives his Spin Charge a little more utility, especially since Spin Charge has very little use as of now.
Hammer Spin Dash and Burning Spin Dash are probably the most interesting and preferred customs I've seen Sonics utilize.
I don't really get any of his alternate HA's (I too still don't really understand the hype for stomp). Double Spring is awful and it's in everyone's best interest to not use it, but the spring with a rising hitbox is sort of interesting? I don't really like it but it has some niche uses and I think I've heard discussion for it, so those are the only customs I personally see are worth making sets around.
I personally used 1113 (Gravity Spin Charge) at my last tournament and didn't mind it, as it's the most unobtrusive custom Sonic has. It just gives his Spin Charge a little more utility, especially since Spin Charge has very little use as of now.
Hammer Spin Dash and Burning Spin Dash are probably the most interesting and preferred customs I've seen Sonics utilize.
I don't really get any of his alternate HA's (I too still don't really understand the hype for stomp). Double Spring is awful and it's in everyone's best interest to not use it, but the spring with a rising hitbox is sort of interesting? I don't really like it but it has some niche uses and I think I've heard discussion for it, so those are the only customs I personally see are worth making sets around.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
Well off burning spin dash jump we can do stomp for a jab reset and the move scale pretty well with rage it also provides us with a safer albeit somewhat weaker spike vs character like marth, little mac, or any other characters who require precise recoveries.
And while surprise attack doesnt send you pummeting if you miss, the fact that its weaker, unsafe both on block and on hit onstage because he doesnt bounce off as high makes it generally inferior to normal HA. It also has a smaller lock on range.
And while surprise attack doesnt send you pummeting if you miss, the fact that its weaker, unsafe both on block and on hit onstage because he doesnt bounce off as high makes it generally inferior to normal HA. It also has a smaller lock on range.
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I'm sorry, but you guys keep saying stuff like this and I just don't think I believe people are going to be put into jablocks from it as often as you guys like to make it sound, and even if it does, how great is it to even pull off if you do? What else is being sacrificed?
I would really like for anyone to prove to me that this is not only a viable tactic, but a worthwhile and consistent one.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Dawg. How many of us were able to pull off side b hop, to footstool to spring down air jab locks on people inntournament?
And your really trying to act like side b footstool mash b is some how too hard and unreliable to do now? Really? Thats all you have to do to get the stomp forced get up
I play 1313 or 2313 but the uses of stomp imo are too niche to me to choose it over homing attack in the vast majority of situations, because of its incredible overall utility.
I saw a post in the kirby customs thread that i thought was important. These customnsets should be formed with the traveling, tourney going, evo bound sonics in mind, and with them getting a bit more say on the matter.
Me, KC24 and bam are going to be consistent enough at tournaments for there to be either a 1311 or 1313 on each set up for us.
Also, regarding down 3, if the opponent whiffs an attack the windbox brings them toward sonic meaning he has to cover slightly less ground in order to punish them whichmakes punishes a little bit easier and more consistent.
as long as theres a 1311 or preferably a 1313 set up on each system, i personally am satisfied, and you guys can do what ever you want with all the other slots
And your really trying to act like side b footstool mash b is some how too hard and unreliable to do now? Really? Thats all you have to do to get the stomp forced get up
I play 1313 or 2313 but the uses of stomp imo are too niche to me to choose it over homing attack in the vast majority of situations, because of its incredible overall utility.
I saw a post in the kirby customs thread that i thought was important. These customnsets should be formed with the traveling, tourney going, evo bound sonics in mind, and with them getting a bit more say on the matter.
Me, KC24 and bam are going to be consistent enough at tournaments for there to be either a 1311 or 1313 on each set up for us.
Also, regarding down 3, if the opponent whiffs an attack the windbox brings them toward sonic meaning he has to cover slightly less ground in order to punish them whichmakes punishes a little bit easier and more consistent.
as long as theres a 1311 or preferably a 1313 set up on each system, i personally am satisfied, and you guys can do what ever you want with all the other slots
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