Submit your entry for the Top 8 Custom Sets of [Sonic]

[DunnoBro]

As part of an ongoing project to push customs into the competitive scene, we're seeking the 8 most popular/competitive sets of each character to apply to every tournament wii u to streamline the custom character selection.

Please provide a set, an explanation of it, and any other comments you'd like to include.
Note: Sets dedicated to countering certain characters are more than welcome. Especially for characters who function differently, or poorly against certain characters who otherwise perform well under default specials. Gimmicky, glitchy, or combinations just otherwise worth mentioning are welcome as well.
If there are more than 8 sets posted, we will have a poll to determine their popularity. This is more about time constraints and not forcing too many people to upload their own customs, not just competitive viability.

Please use this template for submitting sets at the top of your post:
1111 (A default set)
1231 (Custom set with default neutral special, and down special)[/spoiler]
It's an interesting enough discussion and debate topic on it's own I think, without it being about whose set is actually best. So hopefully they'll be rather popular, I'd recommend uploading your personal favorite customs/sets to get the discussion going.

 

[Espy Rose]

lol

 

[Kuraudo]

You're so helpful, Espy.

@ DunnoBro

I haven't unlocked all the customs for Sonic yet myself, but to help you guys out I can provide some builds in the near future.

 

[Camalange]

1111

4 lyfe

@ ROOOOY!

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think a top 2 would suffice: 1111 followed by 1211 (Hammer Spin Dash).

I mean, that's the only viable custom move Sonic has and even that is debatable.

 

[Joshkip]

I am either using 1111 or 1211.

I bring in Hammer Spin Dash for mixups.

 

[Teshie U]

Yea, Sonic has some pretty uninteresting ones, so he should be an easy one to deal with.

The weak homing attack is alright and doesn't kill you when you miss, so thats a plus.

Burning Spindash is fun for pressure with the short hop mechanic so I'll toss in that for you.

add 3311 and 3111.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

The only correct answer is 1111.

 

[Lizam]

I agree with 1211 being a solid choice for specific match ups, stages etc.

Burning Spindash (side 3) and possibly Double Spring (up 2) I believe have their niche uses. I'm not really liking Surprise Attack (neutral 3), but I need to play around with it more I think. It just does so little dmg and kb and you can be punished after landing it..

So right now I believe we should mix in side 3 and up 2 into the default and hammer spin dash sets.

Two base sets:
1111 [Default]
1211 [Hammer Spindash variant]

Custom niche sets:
1121 [Default + Double Spring]
1221 [HSD + Double Spring]
1311 [Default + Burning Spin Dash]
1311 [Burning Spin Dash variant]
1321 [BSD + Double Spring]

That's 7/8 sets (6/8 not including default).

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So it looks like the Sonic boards have started with some helpful discussion and some unhelpful discussion to go along with it (it's Sonic, expected). What we're looking for is up to three critical sets and filling up to slot 6 with supplemental options that may be more niche but still represent some functional utilty to Sonic. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 so all players can have access to every special move on Sonic to see how they work in the early metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are held for 3ds imports on tournament day. 1111 should be excluded since it's always available no matter what the slots are filled with anyway; that actually makes Lizam's post that is also pretty similar to my gameplay experiences of what's good one possible complete answer though of course there may be room to want to use some other stuff instead (like the Homing Attack variants?). I'll leave this for you guys to sort out.

 

[ROOOOY!]

So it looks like the Sonic boards have started with some helpful discussion and some unhelpful discussion to go along with it (it's Sonic, expected).

You love it.

It's not being intentionally unhelpful it's just that there's nothing to speculate.

1111 is the best build, unquestionably. You could throw in Side 2 if you want if whoever you're playing is a srs debator in the character competitive impression thread. It's not unusable, but whenever I ask if I can have an example as to what matchup it's useful for in there I just get
'DO YOU LIVE UNDER A ROCK IT BURIES PEOPLE AND IS FASS U SUCK'. Dem late '14 members...



Additionally, the title and the OP only ask for one set, and that any more are welcome. Lots of Sonics are going to use 1111, where you can't really flesh it out. Unless you want explanations of why most of the alternatives are terrible, which has been written at least 100 times on this board.

This is a worthwhile project and all and no one's trying to be a ****, it's just not for Sonic.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

To be honest, after I ran an online match with a custom, I was able to pull some nasty surprises on Bowser, but that was virtue of him never really seeing the move. The amount of frustration of being unable to cross the gap was... not *quite* worth it.

I do have a soft spot for auto-spin-charge, because it isn't noticeably different in damage/knockback compared to 1 and I can treat it as the new side-b if I'm stuck using HSD.

 

[Espy Rose]

Happy to disappoint you Double A.
But yeah, Roy's spot on. Sonic's customs are really mediocre. Vanilla Sonic is the best.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I will say that as Rosalina I find Sonic far more intimidating if he's packing Hammer Spin Dash, at least if the stage has an open lay-out (on Battlefield HSD is a huge liability). Perhaps your mileage may vary, but if I were in tournament against a Sonic main who could pick HSD and didn't, I'd breathe a sigh of relief.

This project is about helping as many people pick what they want so it's probably best to cut to the chase. Lizam's list would seem to be non-controversial in the sense that it seems unlikely any Sonic main would go to a tournament and say "gee, the option I really wanted to pick was not included"; is there any reason not to just use it and say team Sonic is happy?

 

[Espy Rose]

More like "Team Sonic doesn't care."

Hammer Spin Dash is no better against a Rosalina who actually knows how Sonic works than regular Spin Dash.

 

[Kinzer]

More like "Team Sonic doesn't care."

Speak for yourself. I'm kind of curious about Gravitational Charge in general and Burning Spin Dash's priority Vs. certain projectiles. I am also curious to see what other people see in Hammer Spin Dash. Because I honestly don't see it being of equal value as default Spin Dash. It's not like you have to have the opponent grounded in order to kill now, and the Spin Dash Roll/Jump follow-up/shield pressure is not something to scoff at. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that Spin Charge could give you the same things; it's just not comparable.

For sure, though, nothing else matters, and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Double Spring is poopy.

Spring Headbutt is nigh useless for the cost of off-stage gimps and post-apex follows.

Bounce Attack is dumb when HA1 is just SO good.

The only thing the Quick Homing Attack has over the default is not sending you so far down on whiff/no lock-on.

Auto Spin Charge is for lazy people. You're playing Sonic, you get no breaks.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, but you care about literally everything.
You're the exception that proves the rule.

Hammer Spin Dash also doesn't do 21% damage on landing by the way.

 

[Kinzer]

You're the exception that proves the rule.

Hammer Spin Dash also doesn't do 21% damage on landing by the way.

Wait, "proves?" What's that suppose to mean!? I take that as an insult. I'd say it's because of the extensive research that I did into Brawl Sonic's metagame and mechanics that I can make plans to now dominate Vegas' scene as a top ten poweranked terror... which is apparently where I would've been already had I not been playing an objectively semi-average character for the last six years. I'm not salty.

Anyway, I agree with the Hammer Spin Dash remark. I'm trying to keep a fair opinion; but, I'd be lying if I said it is impressive.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: Custom Impressions

Side B:
Hammer Spindash is a must, you can still get reliable combos out of the jump and shield cancel and if you get the pitfall (which is somewhat easy to do since its hard to react to), you can just tap backwards to cancel the roll and Fsmash/Dash USmash. Its a great KO setup and it has a higher hitbox from the first jump for Uair strings that KO earlier if you can pull it off. The move is amazing. Also you can't do a jump out of the charge, which is a buff. You can't mess up by jumping on accident! Seriously, you can't release the spin dash in the air and you can get punished hard for it. You'd be better off shieldcancelling projectiles.
Flaming Spindash has its niche for the Robin and Ness matchup since you're completely immune to fire attacks.

Edit- Realized I had tap jump off while testing, didn't think I did even though thats how I play lol. Disregard no jump out of charge.
Up B:
The springs are terrible, more lag for bad damage or less height with two springs. The double springs are weird with ledgesnapping; I died a couple times while in training with them.

Down B:
Auto Spin Charge is a downgrade and for lazy people. Gravitational has its uses, but its situational most of the time.

Neutral B:
Surprise Attack's lack of range and power isn't really worth it, and I find myself missing with it anyway. Stomp is situational but it still has its uses with a meteor on the entire attack length, and you can speed it up or keep it slow. Its mainly for pressure, but the Dair is mainly a better option.

That said my 8 picks would be-

1211
1311
2113
1113
1213
1313
2211
3111

Not sure if I did it right, assuming it goes Neutral-Side-Up-Down and 2 is Stomp/Hammer and 3 is Surprise/Burning/Gravitational

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

my picks would be
2212
1331
3223
1311
1131
1113
1112
1211

Burning spin dash give us the ability to safely clash with stronger projectiles as well as beat out jabs(something our normal spin attacks have a hard time doing even fully charged)
It also grants us a very small VSDJ which at mid percents can give us a free jab lock if the opponent doesn't tech.
You can also do burning spin dash > uair > springing headbutt >> bair for around about 34-43 % at low %.

Gravitational charge i feel would work well in doubles as you could disrupt opponents by sucking them away from your teammate.
And double spring can potentially be used to save your partner if you happen to misspace a spring drop to restore their up-b.

But for the most part i will say vanilla sonic has the overall better tools but burning spin dash is the one that for me i can see being his best custom, with stomp being a the runner up due to it having a much more consistent albeit weaker meteor effect than dair.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

More like "Team Sonic doesn't care."

Hammer Spin Dash is no better against a Rosalina who actually knows how Sonic works than regular Spin Dash.

I mean, Spin Dash comes from the same direction my Luma is and where almost my entire safe moveset hits easily. Hammer Spin Dash I can only beat with my attacks if I have a read since I can, what, usmash it or jump after it with fair/bair, and I'm so floaty that jumping is a very committed thing for me to do so I had better jump right. Both moves are safe on block so both must be challenged directly unless I want to accept Sonic just doing it over and over again (no reason not to if I don't stick out my own moves to try to beat it out, and just blocking this stuff means Luma is likely to die so I really do need to challenge as often as possible). When I get to kill percents, regular Spin Dash doesn't kill me since you pop me into juggle set-ups I can airdodge out of unless you guess right which requires you to guess better than I do since I can DI, react to your movement, air control around, fast-fall to mess with your timing a bit, Luma might help me out... Hammer Spin Dash grounds and trivially combos to usmash at kill percents, and usmash kills really early on a light character. So yeah, I'm way more worried about HSD here; 21% is only happening off a super clean hit anyway, and I stress neutral games and kill set-ups way moe than damage combos anyway.

It is in no way important that we agree on this point; if you want to use default Sonic to the end, there's no reason you can't do that. I certainly wouldn't mind if all Sonics spared me having to deal with HSD, and it seems likely pretty easy to make the Sonic players who do want customs available happy here.

 

[Espy Rose]

If they're happy with losing, I guess.

 

[DunnoBro]

Exactly what is bad about double spring?

Is it because we lose the uair top kills, the jump + upb + dair autocancel or something else? I like it for breaking out of combos and safer landings. Also nice for gimping. Since he goes lower and has a second, i really enjoyed just crapping them out on shields and recovering opponents.

It's essentially giving him 2 extra jumps and turnip drops

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, except those extra jumps and drops are extremely bad.

 

[DunnoBro]

"Extremely bad" isn't very exact.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Can someone record a vid of a Sonic using Double Spring to edgeguard? I must be doing something very wrong because every now and then there's someone claiming that it's possible to use it to gimp people and I can't seem to use it in a fashion that would even resemble that.

 

[DunnoBro]

Can someone record a vid of a Sonic using Double Spring to edgeguard? I must be doing something very wrong because every now and then there's someone claiming that it's possible to use it to gimp people and I can't seem to use it in a fashion that would even resemble that.

Wouldn't it gimp pretty much the same chars the regular spring does? It's probably better at it due to two springs, but with these god recoveries i don't think weak semi spikes gimp well in this game.

I only have a little double spring practice against chudat's sheik, but it made breaking out of the combos much easier and since I didn't go as high as the regular spring + has another jump and spring to pester him with, my landings were a lot safer.

I also liked dropping it out of spindash more because I could actually take advantage of the tech chases it would set-up since i wouldn't go so high. It just seems like the better option once you get used to it.

The cons are probably no more flashy off-the-top kills which were never reliable on good players, or flashy ground spring shenanigans either. But overall I feel like it makes sonic a much more defensive, versatile character who is a severe pain to deal with for combo-centric characters since he denies them their combos/follow-ups.

 

[Camalange]

Double spring has absolute garbage knockback. I tried exploring it because I saw potential in the idea, but when I saw double spring essentially just HELPING people recover at like 90%, I wrote it off.

The ONLY possible use I could think of is dropping two springs on Villager's balloons. Other than that it becomes a significantly worse edgeguarding option. Any other benefit that double spring could offer doesn't really do it for me, as we don't even really get the full height of a spring from using two double springs back to back.

With Sonic's regular Up-B able to sweetspot the ledge now as well... It's just so much better.

EDIT: Oh, didn't notice the shots fired on "flashy" and "shenanigan" spring combos... Spring follow-ups are actually more legitimate in this game. Like, actual combos. You should be afraid of Spring>Uair in this game because you will die at 80% if you sleep on it. Plus we can still get you with anyone of our aerials and possibly still nair you if you try to airdodge the initial follow-up. So... #SpringLife

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm liking Burning Spin Dash.
Generally, it doesn't have as good Combo Potential as Spin Dash, but it does have some unique set-ups that normal Spin Dash doesn't have.

Burning Spin Dash > Smashes

If your opponent is at high %, it sets up for an easy Fsmash/Dsmash/Usmash.
(Not sure yet if Fsmash and Dsmash are garantueed, but DACUS seems garantueed.)
The trick is to hit them with the Jump Hitbox only, and not the grounded hitbox which would send them up.
This sends them at low trajectory, often to the ledges, and Sonic lands right next to them with Frame Advantage.

You can also do it off stage and follow up with a garantueed Fair. And unlike normal Spin Dash, they're a lot closer to the horizontal Blast Zones when you land the Fair.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

This just in: it wasn't Auto Spin Charge that rendered Spinshotting with the C-Stick useless..

Spoiler

It's Hammer Spin Dash. Yeah..

Spoiler

nvm, you just need to charge the SC at least twice before trying to SS. Not a huge drawback but still.. can't we just get at least ONE useful custom that doesn't actually hinder us at the same time?

 

[Camalange]

Burning Spin Dash is also complete ass on shield. Like, easily one of the most unsafe things to ever hit a shield in the history of Smash. BT was trying it out against me and I could just shield it and hit him with a Fsmash. Yeah. I don't think so.

Regardless of whatever projectiles it can beat, Sonic's standard Side-B also goes through projectiles... Invincy frames, y'all.

 

[Teshie U]

Burning spindash is still pretty good on shield if you jump before you reach them.

It just short hops over them (with a hitbox or two) and crosses up because you immediately land and can go for a grab or another BSD.

BSD builds damage insanely fast because it lets you hug the ground all the time and get follow ups easier at low percents.

The loss in safety might be an issue at the highest level of play, but 1111 is already available so we don't really need to discuss that.

 

[Espy Rose]

Burning spindash is still pretty good on shield if you completely project the only safe option you have out of it.

Yeah, it's crazy how bad it is.

 

[Teshie U]

This doesn't have to be as annoying as you are making it Espy. Think of it like a tier list. If 1111 is Metaknight, we still need to figure out which variations are ics, snake, falco etc.

The whole thing is to find the 8 best CUSTOM setups, which i understand isn't very exciting for Sonic.


I think we can all agree here that BSD and HSD can lead into some amazing things on hit, with a sacrifice of safety if you muck it up.

 

[XLR8TION]

1111 or 1211

burning spindash...not for me lol, im sure it can work somehow though

 

[Espy Rose]

Tesh, just stop.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

This doesn't have to be as annoying as you are making it Espy. Think of it like a tier list. If 1111 is Metaknight, we still need to figure out which variations are ics, snake, falco etc.

The whole thing is to find the 8 best CUSTOM setups, which i understand isn't very exciting for Sonic.


I think we can all agree here that BSD and HSD can lead into some amazing things on hit, with a sacrifice of safety if you muck it up.

The point is that if 1111 is MK, then the next 7 are all like.. Ganon, Zelda, Samus, whoever else is completely a non factor and never worth mentioning in a competitive discussion. There isn't even like.. An Ike of custom setups for Sonic. They're all just completely worthless.

 

[Teshie U]

It doesn't matter how much worse they are. All the OP is asking is what would be the most usable out of these garbage custom moves.

And no, putting on a custom homing attack or different down B won't suddenly make Sonic THAT much worse.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yes it will.

 

[Kuraudo]

Good god, Espy. Love you man, but you're contributing next to nothing to this conversation asides "Nope. Won't work. Nope. Not better."

I'm gonna be using 1111 myself too, but even I would appreciate seeing more indepth looks into the other moves.

For example? Double spring despite the nerf in knockback and obvious other drawbacks, the idea that I could nerf a Villager with double springs when popping both balloons is so hard as is sounds awesome. Never would have thought of that if it wasn't brought up.