Strategies for Fighting the Other 34 Characters

[Meta Dude]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DY1xzqt4F9g
yoshi v. wolf

granted it's stated that it's the wolf players new main, but that's a good blueprint. you want to shield roll and pick your openings on the ground. jab, jab, headbutt, follow that up with whatever suits you. your aerials are gonna be situational, but i wouldn't neglect down-b when you're above him. i also noticed that wolf's laser lags a little, so if you jump over the lasers, as dogger does, looks like if you're spaced just right you could land a bair or nair.

 

[Gindler]

Actually burntsocks, Wolf's recovery although slow he has insane vertical recovery with it. He's one of the few characters that continually recovers after a mid percent full Dair off the edge. If you're hanging on the edge though when wolf does his recovery alot of the time he'll kick you and since that counts as an attack he will not grab the edge. If it's final destination even though you've been stage spiked or whatever they call if you can easily recover with yoshi's second jump and an egg toss (150% is the absolute max i'd do this at though or you're as good as dead)

 

[Deleted member]

u just edgehog him. In case u didnt know, after his up b, he cant DI, so if he goes straight up, u can just edgehog him and he falls to his doom. Anyways, since it is a far vertical recovery, i usually knock them hoizontally, and they usually dont come back. Meta Dude, that wasnt a very good example, that wolf was really bad (not rly his fault considering he just started maining him), doggger wasnt especially good (its not his fault, the game wasnt even out in America and im sure hes probably much better now). But i do agree, your aerials dont wanna be up against his (unless its ur bair), so try to beat him on the ground. I wouldnt advice rolling so much, especially since wolf is so fast he can punish your rolls. I dont play with any wolf players consistantly, but ill see if i can find some good vids.


-Burntsocks

 

[KRDsonic]

*reads thread* Oh, so yoshi also has problems against Toon Link and Pikachu :/ Darn, that means all three of my mains has problems with those two, usually I'm forced to use Yoshi against Pikachu if I want to do well against him since his Egg toss seems to cancel quite a bit of what he does.

I also usually use him to counter Wario due to his Egg Toss knocking him off of his motocycle.

 

[Shiri]

I personally don't think Pikachu shuts Yoshi down, but not many people seem to agree.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally don't think Pikachu shuts Yoshi down, but not many people seem to agree.

Agreed. At first i thought pikachu was the ultimate yoshi counter, but after playing good pikas consistantly, they arent so tough (not a favorable matchup but not unwinnable). Jumping over tjolts is a big step in beating pikachu, once u do that the matchup is less under pikas control. Dsmash isnt good, if u know how to DI out of it. Just keep slamming up on the control stick and maybe even the cstick and u get out before the final hit, leaving u with minimal damage. Thunder is gay, try not to get thunderflipped (as in dsmashed or usmashed to thunder gimp). U can bair through his fair which is nice. QACs are just a nuiciance (cool stuff u can do w/ them but mostly for mindgames). Hes hard to approach, but bairs go through tjolts.

As for wario, u can also pivot grab him off of his bike and it looks really cool =)

 

[Meta Dude]

the problem with pika (that i have at least) is having to change my style, that means being a lot more careful in the air. you really have to respect that thunder. he also has decent priority for being one of the small, fast characters.

/sig test...

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

I don't see how you can approach a D-Smash abusing Pika who baits you with Projectiles. Not even the Egg Shield can completely dodge the D-Smash (which makes no sense).

And Aggro Pika can lose because you have the chance to hit him back, but a camping Pika is definitely a counter. You have to find holes in his game which means he already has the upper hand.

 

[Shiri]

The key to beating Pikachu in Brawl is the same as in Melee, I think.

You simply have to have a very strong ground game. For lots of players, this means a complete shift in the way you play the game. I think one of the reasons people think Pikachu and Meta Knight and such aerially amazing characters are counters to Yoshi (albeit, they're not good matchups) is because Yoshi players keep going in the air. That's where he gets beaten. For some characters, like Pikachu, you HAVE to stay on the ground and challenge him there, where he has a less stable game.

In response to THE RED SPARROW, projectiles are easy to get around against Pikachu. Sure, you could jump over them, but that leaves you quite open for Pika's forward air. Let's say for the sake of argument that you're amazingly smart and wind up a forward air while you're rising--you'll still only tie with his forward air and have a soft descent while chances are he's been slammed to the ground but has enough speed to come after you still...and while you're descending, your only move choice that matters in neutral air, which is a 50/50 shot for beating out any of Pikachu's moves at best. Instead, just do what Yoshi did in Melee. Jab the jolts. What's Pikachu gonna do? Shoot more? Jab more. Is he gonna dash grab? He can't, LOL! Jab is too fast if he runs into a follow-up jab. Is he gonna perform a rushing short hop aerial? You have such little lag after the jab that you can just walk away before he gets to you.

Downsmashing spammers lose, anyway, because of two things. First, it's very much like Melee Peach's downsmash in that you can shield the entire thing and shieldgrab it afterwards. In all likelihood, you're probably letting go of the shield button too early even though it doesn't feel like it (I've done this many times myself). Secondly, good DI out of that downsmash makes all the difference. You can launch yourself out after the second hit, tech, and get ready to zone in again.

I'm sorry, but I honestly can't agree that any style of Pikachu is a counter. Now, Pikachu is a steely matchup. Your remark about finding holes and them already having the upper hand is something I can nod my head to (but a counter--that I cannot do). I'll give him that and a boatload of respect. Two weeks ago, I almost got three-stocked in tournament on Pictochat by someone (who I've never played before, co-incidentally) who played a nigh-perfect mix of offense and defense. I'd venture to say it was the best Brawl Pikachu I've ever seen. Regardless, I had to spend those few seconds on the angel platform f my last stock thinking how I was going to at least try not to get three stocked and step my game up. Now, when the match got to this point, he had the upper hand. Once I got off that platform and went after him once I realized what I needed to do to get at him safely, I had the upper hand.

The moral of the story? Pikachu does usually have the upper hand if you aren't beating the player's style directly. Once you combine how to beat Pikachu with how to beat that player's style, you have the upper hand. Matches that swing this way I generally don't consider counters. Maybe a bad matchup against a good character. Just not a counter.

 

[DstyCube]

Downsmashing spammers lose, anyway, because of two things. First, it's very much like Melee Peach's downsmash in that you can shield the entire thing and shieldgrab it afterwards. In all likelihood, you're probably letting go of the shield button too early even though it doesn't feel like it (I've done this many times myself).

I'd just like to add that a big difference between melee and brawl is that there is no shield stun, which is probably why people get baited into rapid hitting moves. In melee once you got your shield out, a rapid hitting move would lock you in it, so you didn't need to actually hold on your shield for the entire duration of the attack. It's a habit that I'm really trying to overcome.

I'm sorry, but I honestly can't agree that any style of Pikachu is a counter. Now, Pikachu is a steely matchup. Your remark about finding holes and them already having the upper hand is something I can nod my head to (but a counter--that I cannot do). I'll give him that and a boatload of respect. Two weeks ago, I almost got three-stocked in tournament on Pictochat by someone (who I've never played before, co-incidentally) who played a nigh-perfect mix of offense and defense. I'd venture to say it was the best Brawl Pikachu I've ever seen. Regardless, I had to spend those few seconds on the angel platform f my last stock thinking how I was going to at least try not to get three stocked and step my game up. Now, when the match got to this point, he had the upper hand. Once I got off that platform and went after him once I realized what I needed to do to get at him safely, I had the upper hand.

The moral of the story? Pikachu does usually have the upper hand if you aren't beating the player's style directly. Once you combine how to beat Pikachu with how to beat that player's style, you have the upper hand. Matches that swing this way I generally don't consider counters. Maybe a bad matchup against a good character. Just not a counter.

/insert amazing Yoshi comeback? :3 Really good read Shiri. One of Yoshi's strengths is his ground speed, I think he's like.... 11th fastest in the game? Foxtrotting and dash pivots are kind of fun to mess around with, not only do they make you look fancy, it really helps your maneuverability and ground game. Beware of tripping though.

 

[Deleted member]

Jabs to cancel tjolts... yummy.

 

[Nocher]

hmm ill have to try that

 

[Gindler]

I can hit pikachu just fine, the big problem is his insane recovery. He can skullbash almost all the way back and then agility if he even has to, and i hate being agility gimped so I don't go out for spikes too often.

and yeah, yoshi's faster than TL so he's easily in the upper strata speed wise.

 

[Nocher]

yay, i have some rep now online, i got close to beating one of the top players but was finally killed by his kirbey, any tips for a GOOD kirby, one who works with all the moves and can combo well out of most attacks?

 

[Gindler]

I hate fighting Kiby's so much, they're pretty hard to edge guard. Of course edgegaurding is a big part of their game to and with juggernaut frames it's harder. My biggest tip would have to be to watch the Fsmash, they make a habit out of that attack after they get you to the 90's range with their combos and super cool looking throws.

 

[Nocher]

ok ill do that

 

[biohazard930]

Okay, I know we’ve been talking mostly about Wolf here, and I’ve read through it all. However, not all of my questions are answered. Also, I can’t get everything y’all have spoken of to work or haven’t found some of it to be true. For one, you speak of hopping over lasers, but most decent stages seem to have platforms under which Wolf laser spams, so I find hopping over difficult. Short hops get me Fsmashed while big ones get me Usmashed.

Burntsocks said Wolf lacks range to which I must disagree. The lasers seem to just outrange the eggs (Unless for some reason I can’t throw them far…) and Wolf can just reflect the ones that do reach right back. Also, how does one pivotgrab to counter the Fsmash? I must be wrong in thinking that a pivotgrab consists of dashing and then hitting back on the control stick as the same time as a grab for an “instant grab” in the other direction. The Fsmash just goes right through that.

I watched Meta Dude’s video, and my friend plays Wolf quite differently than the video’s Wolf. For one, he laser camps more often than the video, and I’ve already explained the problem with that and platforms. Then, you have the problem of Wolfs shine(?). It seems so instant and takes priority over almost anything I try (aerials, smashes, dashes, eggroll). How does one counter that?

I hate to sound like I’m complaining, but it seems that Wolf just consistently outranges, overprioritizes(?) and overpowers Yoshi. He seems quicker (in both movement and attack speed) and seemingly has incredibly little lag after almost anything he does. I’ve found a bit of success doing an eggroll at close range, but my par (at best) aerial aiming skills mean I can’t always take advantage of the Uair afterwards. Plus, he can just shinecounter it with ease.

 

[bigman40]

Well unfortunately, I haven't meet a good wolf yet. If I go through one, then I'll gladly give advice or even record it.

 

[Nocher]

im in contact with an exelent all around space animal player, if anyone wants to face him ill ask for you

 

[bigman40]

hey, I'm up to play someone good. Just let me know.

 

[Nocher]

ok, ill see if he is on aim

edit- nah he's idle at the moment, ill tell him when he's on that he has a challenger.

 

[Nocher]

ok, whoever wants to face him, just aim him at: dagoldenclip2

 

[Meta Dude]

Biohazard:

if you're just short hopping without b-air, then that's what you should be doing. otherwise, yeah, he's always gonna smash. i don't think anything works better on short hops than b-air, cause it leads to so many combos. are you sure egg tosses don't outrange his laser? the other space animals they don't, but i think wolf's laser has ok range at best, you should be able to get some tosses in without being lasered, but like you said, keep in mind he has a reflector.

and yes, wolf is a very strong character in this game, but by no means is he unbeatable for yoshi, nor would i say he has a clear advantage over yoshi. pivot grabbing is gonna be clutch in this matchup, along with following it up with combos. wolf has trouble along the edges and with edgeguarding. he has a slightly larger character model, so short hop d-air (flutter kicks) could be used as well i don't think his u-smash is as nasty (speedwise) as fox or falco (someone please correct me if i'm horribly mistaken).

 

[Meta Dude]

as for the space animals' side-b, i hate that move, cause there's no real preparation for it. that's all i can add to that.

 

[salaboB]

as for the space animals' side-b, i hate that move, cause there's no real preparation for it. that's all i can add to that.

You can easily be tossing eggs at them anytime they're coming in where a side-b will do them any good, and if they use it too high for that you'll have plenty of time to punish them while they're falling stunned.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I actually don't find space animals all that troubling in Brawl, at least not with Yoshi.

Just play a careful ground-game and punish mistakes. Sounds vague, but don't do a lot of fancy edge-guarding or try eccentric combos, especially against Falco/Fox. Just basic, careful Smash and I tend to come out on top.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf isnt easy. You pivot grab his fsmash by running back while he does it then grabbing (im bad at explaining stuff =/). Laser camping is gay, but u canjump over them, or easier u can just roll past them. Bairs are good as usual, stopping his smashes and outranging his aerials.

 

[Gindler]

So I have to play differently than yoshi seems designed to? darn I just love edgeguarding so much, oh well.
and yeah burntsocks I truly do not like playing wolf too much, true his fsmash is nearly useless with pivot grab in you arsenal but I hate how you can't duck below his lasers. Camping trigger happy falcos i love taunting by ducking under the shots and crawling closer between the shots, this is really embarassing to the guy especially in tournaments with people there to laugh. Sometimes I'll also intentinally take hits to show him he won't win that way and just so I can seem extra though and a bold fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

Haha gindler i can imagine that. U just standing and taking all of his hits lawl =) Anyways i think we should do what they are doing in the ROB boards for matchups. People are listing all of the other characters and saying whether yoshi has an advantage, disadvantage, or they are close to equal, and then people can discuss. Only talk about matchups u know about, just put a ? for ones u dont know. I think this would be a good way to find out other peoples opinions on a wide variety of matchups, not jsut specific hard ones. More than 1 - means its a counter. Heres mine, feel free to disagree:

Bowser =
Captain Falcon +
Diddy -
Donkey Kong - (possibly =, but yoshi gets out ranged and dies much quicker)
Falco -
Fox ?
G&W ---------------
G-Dorf +
ICs ?
Ike +
Jigglypuff ?
D3 =
Kirby =
Link ?
Lucario?
Lucas + (arguable, but i think its yoshis advantage)
Luigi -
Mario ?
Marth + (yoshi beats marf, hurray =)
MK --
Ness =
Peach?
Pikachu =/- (pikachu has an advantage, but its a verry winnable match)
Olimar = (despite what people say, olimar is very good and can defeat yoshi if they know what they're doing)
Pit=
Squirtle?
Ivy =
Charizard+
Rob -
Samus ?
Shiek ?
Snake = (Grabbing snakes is good cuz they often shield a lot due to tilts OOS, grenade cooking, and the like, so id call this matchup prettty close)
Sonic +
Toon Link -
Wario +/= (Chain grab infinates but besides that its equal)
Wulf =
Yoshi ? ( =P)
Zelda -
ZSS ?


Sorry that was kinda spacy. Thats my opinions on matchups, feel free to tell me i dont know what im talking about. I put descriptions on some that might cause questioning. *Feels like Shiri but without anything useful to say*

 

[Shiri]

As homage to how different this game is from Melee, I'll submit that Yoshi soundly defeats Zelda and Samus.

Unfortunately, Peach is still a monster.

King Dedede is a joke, as are Ivysaur and Pit. Not joke characters, but I think Yoshi soundly beats them. Ness is still tough, though he doesn't have the death combos he used to have. Sonic is tough because I think his true playstyle is a Yoshi counter in its basic design. Pikachu is not in Yoshi's favor, but it is extremely winnable, so I'd venture to call it just like burntsocks did. Yoshi also poops all over Olimar. In essence, here's my list:

Advantage Matches:
Bowser
Diddy Kong
Falco
Fox
Mr. Game and Watch
Captain Olimar
Pit
King Dedede
Ivysaur
Zelda
Samus

Neutral Matches:
Ike
Charizard
Squirtle
Wario
Pikachu
Ness
Mario
Link
Ganondorf

Disadvantage Matches:
R.O.B.
Meta Knight
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Sonic
Luigi
Wolf

I don't know about all the rest, as I haven't had enough experience with them yet. That, or I may have just forgotten them. I will expound on these as per request.

 

[Deleted member]

samus i can agree with, but in my experience zelda is a tough matchup, definately not yoshis advantage. Please elaborate. Also G&W is by far Yoshi's worst matchup imo. Dont see how u gave yoshi the advantage. His bair is just too good, and he can combo u extremely well. Also falco is at least a neutral matchup imo, with his lasers, his chain grabs, and his great aerials. I would also like to know why D3 is easy for yoshi (i dont disagree, i just wanna know so when i fight soem good D3s i know what to do). I would put G-dorf as yoshis advantage. Hes too punishable. Yes he has auto cancelled aerials, but his aerials arent even very good. He has his side b, but your grabs outrange it. He has a spike, so what. His ftilt is probably the best thing hes got, but its slow. I actually havent played any g-dorf mains, this is just from playing people messing around w/ him, and from basic knowledge of his play, but i cant imagine him going even w/ yoshi. Charizard i have experience w/ and from my experience yoshi has an advantage. Hes like gannon but he has fire breath, and fair. Plus teh rock smash. U can combo his easily though, and his tilts are a bit laggy.
Can u elaborate on peach being good against yoshi. Also Lol i disagreed w/ like half of shiri's list.

 

[Gindler]

I believe yoshi has an advantage over snake, when snake tries using nades all you do is throw an egg at him and if the nade is still in his hand it will blow up, whenever he puts down a mine you can either dash grab him and hold him over it till it explodes (sometimes yoshi will be invulnerable during this, or if you know the timing dthrow him into it since yoshi does a lil' hop) or you can throw an egg to blow it up. The rakita or whatever it's called all you have to do is use Bair or Dair on it and it'll pass right through you simple as that. C4 takes too long to blow up remotely so it's hardly worth caring about, unless he gets it on you of course.

The only characters i seem to have a hard time killing are
sonic: (cause he has killer vertical recovery and it's hard to land alot of hits, of course he won't kill you easily either so it'll be a long and boring match, and be sure to pivot grab ALOT)...
ROB: same reason, vertical recovery is "magestic" and when you footstool him during his recovery all you do is keep going up and he won't be effected so you can hop on his head all day if you wanted...
Fox: Fastest spacey and the hardest for me cause his recovery is probably the best of the 3.
G&W: unless i land a smash attack or Uair when he thinks the key has the ultimate priority he'll just keep coming back with that awesome parachute...
Pikachu: Annoying attacks, Dsmash is annoying even though it's easy to DI out of, I hate the recovery on this guy, I usually try to meteor him right as his skull bash hits me (I jump infront of it to confront him)
Metaknight: Good reach, annoying spammable roll and Dsmash tactic, good recovery even if I footstool he'll comeback like half the time.
Kirby: He will wall of pain while recovering making eggs your only option to hurt him while he's out there, and again good recovery even when footstooled, and his Fsmash is killer with good range and extreme power extremely spammable too.
Lucario: Uair is worthless in this matchup after the first Uair kill cause he'll just Dair you when you go for it, his recovery isn't too bad and without Uair I have to work to land smashes which will usually get him to high percentages before that giving him more power and an easier kill on me.

That's about it mostly just people that are harder to edgeguard and spike, these are still all winnable they're just my hardest matchups.

 

[PRiDE]

Most characters are equal or aren't to much of a problem except for Wolf, G & W, Mk, and a really good chain grabbing DDD.. All other chars can be won with on equal or higher grounds.. IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

Gindler i disagree. Snake has a bit of an advantage imo. U need to play some better snakes, they dont just chuck nades. They will pull it out, shield, and let it cook while throwing another one. Yoshi cant win a spamming war, ull just let him set up mines and he can out camp u anyways. Yoshi's air game is quicker and grabs help alot against shield happy snakes, and i wouldnt give snake a big advantage, but i think he has a bit of an edge.

 

[Shiri]

samus i can agree with, but in my experience zelda is a tough matchup, definately not yoshis advantage. Please elaborate. Also G&W is by far Yoshi's worst matchup imo. Dont see how u gave yoshi the advantage. His bair is just too good, and he can combo u extremely well. Also falco is at least a neutral matchup imo, with his lasers, his chain grabs, and his great aerials. I would also like to know why D3 is easy for yoshi (i dont disagree, i just wanna know so when i fight soem good D3s i know what to do). I would put G-dorf as yoshis advantage. Hes too punishable. Yes he has auto cancelled aerials, but his aerials arent even very good. He has his side b, but your grabs outrange it. He has a spike, so what. His ftilt is probably the best thing hes got, but its slow. I actually havent played any g-dorf mains, this is just from playing people messing around w/ him, and from basic knowledge of his play, but i cant imagine him going even w/ yoshi. Charizard i have experience w/ and from my experience yoshi has an advantage. Hes like gannon but he has fire breath, and fair. Plus teh rock smash. U can combo his easily though, and his tilts are a bit laggy.
Can u elaborate on peach being good against yoshi. Also Lol i disagreed w/ like half of shiri's list.

Alright, this is how I feel about my stuff.

Zelda is a bit better as a character, but her precision spacing and pinpoint movement aren't around anymore, so it's slightly harder for her to camp mid-range. Yoshi punishes missed kicks very well and neutral air slices right through Din's Fire. Forward smash and upsmash give you trouble if you can't DI them (I'm still unaware of how to DI upsmash). Also, grabbing the ledge is amazing and if Zelda doesn't go for the ledge on recovery, it doesn't take too much to find out where she'll go and mess her up. Also, her shieldgrab game is good against dash attack and forward smash, but everything else can lead into jabs, which outspeed her grab by a factor of a million. Zelda's tilts are okay; most she can do in terms of unpredictability is using forward tilt as an anti-air, but her moves are still really good.

I think Mr. Game and Watch is an advantageous matchup for two reasons. First, he's light. Fine. He gets KO'd at like...4% or something. The second reason is that he's really easy to run away from. If anything, Mr. Game and Watch is much more predictable than he was in Melee. He is priority spam, plain and simple. Couple that with the extremely telegraphic nature of his moveset and you've got someone that's just easy to read. Now, Mr. Game and Watch can be sped up to troublesome proportions with cancels and all his frame traps, but if you don't fight him head on (which I think a lot of players, not just Yoshi players, do almost to the point of recklessness), you'll be fine. I don't know why, but I guess some people haven't figured it out yet--don't fight Mr. Game and Watch head on. You can't beat him unless you're like...Ike or Pikachu or something. He's gonna back air? Don't shield! Run! He's gonna dash grab? Don't spotdodge! Run! He's got strong moves, great reach, and is a good character overall, but Yoshi's ground speed and ability to twist his body make this the new Marth matchup for Brawl, it seems.

Falco's lasers are pretty good. His grab is less-than-amazing, though. His chaingrab only works to 40%, but I guess it's still good enough. His moveset is combo-tastic, but that also means his KO options become much more limited and more obvious. Yoshi's saving graces in this matchup are namely his superior edgeguarding and his competitive spacing. Yoshi and Falco tend to weave in and out of each others' attacks, even though Falco's forward smash will pretty much beat you on all counts. If it's spammed, though, it becomes less of a problem. Overall, Falco has nothing he can really abuse here like he could in Melee. Yoshi's got more abusable options and better and more frequent KO opportunities.

King Dedede doesn't have a real chaingrab on Yoshi. I mean, it sometimes works, but most times you can jab out of it. One of King Dedede's problems is that he falls prey to quick hits. Chip damage is the way to go on King Dedede. Jabs, quick neutrals, tilts, and anything that hits quickly with minimal knockback is PERFECT for this matchup. You just have to be careful about using your neutral air at low percents--he can pseudo-CC into a grab and regardless of whether he attempts to chaingrab or not, the grabs still hurt if you're around 80%. You can outspam him at range. Now, Dedede has pretty amazing edgeguarding, so props to him on that. He would beat Yoshi soundly in the air, also, but his aerial speed is lacking.

Ganondorf is a pretty special case. Almost anything Yoshi has gets beaten by jab and his myriad autocancels. Pseudo-CC into jab is pretty good, too. Ganondorf's edgeguarding is too good and his autocancels on your shield are downright dangerous. He plays generally very defensively (and for good reason), but I think he still gives Yoshi a run for his money. And Peach. Peach just beats Yoshi hands down. Priority, more speed than Melee, more options, and the hot new red dress (Helloooo, nurse!) just beat Yoshi all over. If you've ever played this matchup in Melee, you'll know what kind of nightmare it is.

That's all I've got for now.

 

[Gindler]

Gindler i disagree. Snake has a bit of an advantage imo. U need to play some better snakes, they dont just chuck nades. They will pull it out, shield, and let it cook while throwing another one. Yoshi cant win a spamming war, ull just let him set up mines and he can out camp u anyways. Yoshi's air game is quicker and grabs help alot against shield happy snakes, and i wouldnt give snake a big advantage, but i think he has a bit of an edge.

I have fought quite a few good snakes (popular character) and when they do that cooking thing I've made both nades self destruct on him with a well timed nade, after this they usually try to avoid getting another 35ish% tacked on to them for a minor mistake the C4's a pain if they can knock you into it and have you stunned enough to get hit by it but the mine's are easy prey to a well placed egg taking those almost completely out of the snake's game after he sees you blow up about 5 to no effect. I do however HATE his tilts that just rip through anyone if they get caught in them.

 

[Sharky]

Having experience against Kirk's snake, and going about 50/50 with him, I'd like to say it's an even match-up. The tilts are murder, along with that nair. The sliding upsmash, although annoying, isn't really much of an issue, and the eggs put up a good defense against his long range spam, IF he doesn't start throwing grenades at you first. Otherwise, you'll have to come to him to get away from the explosions, which gives him time to set up C4 and tilts. Grabs are good, but watch out for him dropping a grenade before you grab him, that tends not to end well. Same thing applies with the egg roll, and his tilts can go through/stop it, as well. Overall, I give it a 4.5/5.5 score with the advantage to Snake. =(

 

[biohazard930]

Meta Dude and Burntsocks:

Thanks. I think I may have a clearer idea of what y'all were originally talking about. I'll have to try it out a bit with my friend once exam week is done. :-/

 

[Deleted member]

Adressing shiri:
Interesting point about game and watch, but its easier said than done on small stages. How u gonna run from a back air that takes up half the stage on battle field? I like ur thinking, ill try that =P The problem is, game and watch is one of the few characters who can punish mistakes big time. He can easily rack up 40+ damage with nairs if u get hit, and since they auto cancel, he can follow up w/ all sorts of crazy stuff. Even on big stages, you run away and then what? U cant rly approach him, he doesnt have to approach u, he can just use bacon cuz it destroys ur eggs. He can corner you then just space bairs and ur screwed. Getting above him isnt good, he has so many options up there. He can kill you at lower percents than u can kill him. Sure hes easy to read. But u honestly cant punish most of his moves so it doesnt help much. He can edgeguard u with ease with his fair, bair, or even his up b. He simply controls more space than yoshi and throughout the game, u are just trying not to get hit.
For falco i agree with u mostly, but i guess it seems like a more neutral matchup than a clear advantage for yoshi. I think lasers are what can really shift the match, pestering u throughout the match and forcing yoshi to approach, since he can reflect eggs.
Ill take your word on gannon, since i dont rly have experience against a good gannon.

 

[Shiri]

I see what you mean burntsocks.

As far as running on small stages goes, I understand perfectly what you mean. The premise of my idea to "run away" is to simply get Mr. Game and Watch to commit to an attack of his choice. Mr. Game and Watch shares one of the same critical weaknesses that Meta Knight does; when he chooses to attack, especially aerially, he is committed to that attack for some amount of time. The only options Mr. Game and Watch has to move around with are up air, neutral air, and back air. Once you can get him to do something, you can run and--more importantly--have time, in most cases, to hit him or at least get in a reset position. That's all.