Strategies, Combos, Smelly Waft thread

[Oracle]

I never use it for recovery unless its my last stock. Free kill>a half dead stock

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There's always situations where you risk getting gimped, as well as for super-far edgeguarding.

 

[Oracle]

Typically I dont get gimped lol. The only time that happens is when I miss a ledge tech or something and the opponent meteors me, in which case its irrelivant because you cant meteor cancel with down b

 

[PK Gaming]

hey

casual wario player. i'm playing against a friend who's got a killer marth and he's kicking my ***, left & right. I don't know about the matchup at a mid-high level, but i have no idea how to go about the matchup. Martha outranges me in the air, and I can't really approach from the ground (unless i'm missing something crucial!?!).

my best bet is bobbing and weaving with wario's awesome aerial mobility, but i need more if i want to reliable beat my friend.

 

[Oracle]

out maneuver him until he makes a mistake, then kill him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCjbGQTdLOQ

wario has deceptive range, so use that to your advantage

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Marth has to recover low most of the time, which is a recipe for disaster against Wario. You can gimp him pretty consistently with Nair, Dair, or Waft.

If he manages to recover high, you can try challenging him with a jumped grounded shoulder bash. Trading with him is perfectly acceptable in this situation, since keeping him offstage just means putting him in a better position for you to gimp him.

 

[Oracle]

yeah, once you see that hes recovering low you can just jump out with a nair and trade with his up b.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

Crouch canceling works wonders against marth. He shouldn't be too grab happy since you should be weaving around in the air a lot
Also, dtilt combos into stuff against marth if I remember right

 

[PK Gaming]

Thanks for the feedback guys

I just started playing better (can't really "practice") and I win the majority of our matches now

 

[Sebovich]

Love the new Wario, he´s a beast! One fun thing I noticed, that if you cancel his shoulder bash, you can spike while you glide. Surprised a few of my friend with that!

Works if pushing them off ledge (they fall straight down), or if they are recovering (harder to do).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Love the new Wario, he´s a beast! One fun thing I noticed, that if you cancel his shoulder bash, you can spike while you glide. Surprised a few of my friend with that!

Works if pushing them off ledge (they fall straight down), or if they are recovering (harder to do).

I have no idea what you're saying.

Do you mean a landing-cancel Forward-B into Down-B? Or do you mean a squat-canceled Forward-B puts you off-stage?

The thing about the squat-cancel is that the entire animation still happens, so it doesn't make you able to Down-B any faster than normal.

Or do you mean the Forward-B squat cancel stage spikes? It sends people up and toward the stage, so that's possible, but only if they're already under the lip to begin with, and people can sweetspot the ledge to prevent it, and it's really, really weak.

 

[Sebovich]

Don´t mind my previous post, it was just rubbish as it turns out.
Tried it now, never got it working again, the spike thingy that is.

You squat cancel forward B, and the moment you first squat theres a small hitbox in front of wario that pushes (does minimal damage) opponents. The spike must´ve been the result of my friend ccing or something.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I wonder who we can hit through the Yoshi's Story platform with D-Smash. This needs testing.

Also, I wonder if spamming D-Smash over a partner camping under a Battlefield platform would be a legit Doubles strategy.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

What does everybody think about stages for Wario? Stages I tend to do well on with him are

FoD
FD
DL
SV
SSE:J
YIB
YS
DC

Fountain of Dreams
I think this might be Wario's strongest stage. The side platforms are pretty low to the ground, so you can dsmash most characters through them. They also move out of the way to give you some room to roam every once in awhile. The side blastzones are on the smaller side, but Wario will generally survive anything that would have allowed him to make it back to the stage. Top blastzone is really high up there, to help improve Wario's survivability. Ledges also have nice big walls, which is important for recovering with sideb.

Final Destination
Not sure if this is just personal preference for me, or if it's actually a good stage for us. With all the room to roam, I just feel like it's really easy fro Wario to dance and weave circles around most opponents.

Dreamland
Gives you lots of space to move, and platforms to retreat to. Depending on the character you're facing, this can be a very solid stage for Wario.

Smashville
Basically a smaller FD, but with a nifty platform floating around. If you can catch somebody with a sideb on the platform out over the edge, it's quite satisfying. Floating platform allows you to setup great gimping opportunities on most characters. Platform is about the same height as the side ones on Battlefield. This means you can only reliably dsmash Bowser through it, but you can often catch Charizard, Marth or Ganondorf. DDD can also be dsmashed, but you have to aim for the ball on his hat, which is tough.

SubSpace Emissary: Jungle
TONS of space to move about. The platforms are even spaced perfectly for zipping around with edgecancelled sidebs.If you catch someone with a sideb on the higher platforms at a reasonable %, they're toast. The lower platforms are also low enough that you can dsmash most characters through them.

Yoshi's Island: Brawl
Has those nifty walls for recovering, and if you catch somebody with the platform tilted downwards, you can dsmash most characters through it. If it's level though, you won't hit anyone, not even Bowser. Other than that, it's pretty neutral for most matchups.

Yoshi's Story
This stage always nets early kills, and Wario is certainly capable of delivering on those. Platforms you can dsmash through, walls for recovery, Randall. The only thing is one doesn't have is a lot of room for you to run, which can get you stuck in pressure more often, and opponents can get the early kills on you almost just as easily. It's a bit of a double-edged sword. Choose the right MU for this one.

Dracula's Castle
Again, nifty walls, tons of room, and lowest platforms that you can dsmash through. Nice.


Thoughts? Agreements/Disagreements? Stages that I maybe left out?

As for Yoshi's Story platforms, you can dsmash most characters through them. If they are about Wario's height or shorter, you won't get 'em. Characters who are more like ZSS height will get hit no problem.

 

[Ace55]

Typically I like big stages with Wario. DL, DC, RF, SW never play on SSE:J so can't comment on that. Not so much FD because I like having platforms around but against spacies it should be a nice CP.

Certain characters that are hard to edgegaurd/gimp and/or have really flexible projectiles (Jiggs, Peach, Pit, Sonic, the Links and maybe Zelda come to mind) I'd probably go with something smaller. Personal favorite is always gonna be YS but I just love that stage.

One reason for liking the bigger stages is I feel like in most matchups Wario can both outmaneuver and gimp/edgegaurd his opponent better than they can him.

Hear me out on that last part, Wario's recovery specials might suck but more often that not you can recover with only your double jump, which is pretty safe. Meanwhile there aren't a lot of chars that Wario can't reliably edgegaurd/gimp (and most if not all of them are in the aforementioned 'take to smaller stages' group).

Exceptions exist of course, for instance it might not be a great idea to take Falcon to a huge stage.


For me personally as a Bowser/Wario co-main it's awesome since I use Wario for big stages, Bowser for small ones. Means I get to ban my less liked stages like FoD and FD.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

See I agree that Wario does well with bigger stages, which is why I think FD is really good for him. I actually forgot to mention PS2 as being one of his better neutrals too, because of it's size, and better ledges than FD. But FoD, I dunno. I know it's on the smaller side, but it just works for me. If I had to fight on a smaller stage, it'd be FoD, because everything about it is tailor made to make Wario more effective in close quarters.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As a Brawl player, this makes it much easier for me to DACUS.

http://smashboards.com/threads/334359/

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Also, I made a general guide on footstools here--

http://smashboards.com/threads/334385/

I'll probably go over Wario-specific uses soon.

 

[Translucent]

What is the best way to edge-guard a snake? When he recovers high, I can't reach him. When snake recovers low, I can only land a nair or fair poke. Any advice?

 

[Oracle]

If snake is recovering high, then be patient and wait for him to get low enough to up air. At mid to high percents, you can also get under them and up B when you're far enough away that they wouldn't expect it. Just watch out for b reverse down b and grenades, so don't over commit early. For low, you can charge an ftilt and angle it down when they get close, or if you have enough time just grab the ledge and use the invincibility to semispike them with nair. Dair is always tempting but the stupid metal hat prevents it from working.

 

[RKM]

On the subject of dacuses, I found something interesting.
As it turns out, the early hitboxes(sweetspot bit) of warios dash attack actually come out even during a dacus.
I have absolutely no idea how this could be used, but it's pretty neat.

 

[Solharath]

Does anyone else think that dair is balanced enough to go unchanged in the next release? I've been looking at it, and it seems like such a hot and cold move, but I find it's risk/reward skewed somewhat. On one hand, it's a great way to maneuver down, providing you're high enough up or can L-Cancel consistently. And it's a powerful meteor, which is nice.

But using it to edgeguard is the riskiest thing ever no matter how high you are. The 20 frames of cooldown makes it so you can only use it right on the edge, which makes any sort of S/DI good enough to stop from gimping, and chasing offstage is too big a risk. The hitbox isn't large enough to trade decently(It doesn't trade with things like 'Zard glide attack, aerial Bowser UpB, or most UpB's in general). I love using it, but I'm either doing it wrong, or maybe it's just a little too much risk for only medium reward to use consistently. I like twerking with it(Yo dat West MI terminology for when you hit with a meteor on a grounded opponent) into sourspot uair and nair, but nothing is worst than someone angling their shield and messing with your nair spacing.

Not calling for it to be changed(although a hitbox on the ground ala Pikachu dair wouldn't go amiss. Maybe a wind push because lolfarts?), just wondering how you guys use it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's a very powerful meteor that sets up for all sorts of stuff. Rather good for comboing in tandem with footstooling. Since he can steer it left and right during startup, I think it serves its purpose pretty well, though a landing hitbox doesn't seem like a bad idea, either.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

On the subject of dacuses, I found something interesting.
As it turns out, the early hitboxes(sweetspot bit) of warios dash attack actually come out even during a dacus.
I have absolutely no idea how this could be used, but it's pretty neat.

Every time that happens to me I curse my bad luck, because the dash attack sends the opponent in the opposite direction you're flying off to. Its kinda cool but it doesn't do anything

And on the subject of dair, I think its good that its a pretty risky move off stage. Considering the plethora of edge guarding options he has at his disposal. I think its fine as is but thats just me.

 

[0RLY]

Dair offstage is about as risky as edgeguarding with fair>double jump SB. That is to say, very risky, but very satisfying. There are safer options, like nair... or waft.

I'm trying to make offstage bite, bthrow into stage spike a thing... but it's not really working without something like melee battlefield edges.

 

[MegaGuy]

Necro'd with probably useless information!

I found out the other day that you can waveland a SH Fair. Thought it was kind of interesting, could help with his pressure game I guess. K bye.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, it's kind of neat. The option was a big part of why we cut the animation from 2.1 to 2.5.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So has anyone toyed with the possible follow ups from bite? Lately I've been trying to see if its possible to footstool some characters after it, or maybe do an aerial and then footstool. Anyone experiment with this kind of thing?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I learned recently that after a successful Bite is finished, Wario can't start another Bite for 15 frames, which sucks.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Ugh that is pretty bad, I never knew that. Kinda makes sense though, it might be a little ridiculous if it was faster, considering the control he has over the move, not a lot of command grabs have that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've spent ages thinking I was just pressing Neutral-B during jumpsquat every time and thinking I was just plain bad.

Either way, I'm pretty sure it is an unintentional aspect of the move.

 

[AbstractLogic]

I find that Bite > DACUS works extremely well. if they fail to tech you can get a little charge going on it. At the worst you may get the last hit to make them airborne which is always good for wario.

 

[MegaGuy]

I can't believe it never occurred to me to DACUS after Bite, I do it all the time in Brawl. Establishing a Bite game is one of the pillars of my Wario play, it's his best and most rewarding mixup IMO, especially if you have a Waft.

 

[AbstractLogic]

I came straight from brawl so it was one of the first things i tried.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's alright if you read their DI'ing away, but you get so much more on the other side of the mix-up. Could be good to get in the opponent's head. Not sure if Wario has enough time to DACUS on reaction after seeing them move away.

 

[MegaGuy]

It's alright if you read their DI'ing away, but you get so much more on the other side of the mix-up. Could be good to get in the opponent's head. Not sure if Wario has enough time to DACUS on reaction after seeing them move away.

In my experience, you can react to it. It's different depending on %/weight, but I'm usually quick enough to hit them with my whirlwind of hitboxes. You can also just keep throwing them the same way, but that's only if you REALLY want it, which isn't always the best thing to do, but Wario's all about mixups and conditioning, so it can keep an opponent on their toes I suppose.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Yeah it's more a mix up but its a great roll punisher.

 

[MegaGuy]

Are there any outstanding doubles partners for Wario? I know Wario can fulfill pretty much any role, but who compliments him the best? I imagine people who can control the stage/have good ground games would be beneficial. People like Snake, Diddy, Fox, and DK come to mind, but that's just off the top of my head.

 

[AbstractLogic]

I recently had lots of fun teaming with a skilled ganon in tourney. I'm still very new to P:M and we didn't do well because of that, but there is lots of kill potential between those two. Wario is good at going in while remaining slippery and it's nice having a heavy hitter on the outside.

I also main Diddy and I think it would be lots of fun teaming with a wario!

 

[MegaGuy]

I main Wario

I wonder if double Wario is as viable as it is in Brawl. I've also seen Ivysaur do pretty well in teams, and in theory I think she could compliment the Fat Man pretty well. She covers vertical space pretty well, and Wario loves airborne opponents. Just a thought.