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Wat?Guru are you aware of any follow ups for a grounded dash attack? in 2.5 that was a bread and butter combo starter and I struggle to follow up correctly?
I'm sure this guy had zero DI but I was able to DA to grab twice on Marth at zero.Guru are you aware of any follow ups for a grounded dash attack? in 2.5 that was a bread and butter combo starter and I struggle to follow up correctly? Is it more of a tool to deal with crouch cancelling now?
Well done GuruKid, your analysis of the basics is impressive. Keep going man :D
DK's buddy toys with foes using nimble acrobatic moves. - Brawl manual description
He scrambles around the battle, using whimsical fighting moves while wielding both his Rocketbarrel Boost and Peanut Pop Gun! - Smash Bros DOJO!! description
Diddy Kong finally made his Project M debut in Demo 2.5 and while his moveset may still feel familiar in the transition from Brawl, many aspects of these moves have received quite a few tweaks. This resource is intended to educate players both new and unfamiliar to our favorite monkey in the changes, intended uses and general properties of his moves.
Disclaimer: Because a major goal of the developers is to see how players naturally receive the new additions, this guide will be less of a tactical guide but more of a moveset overview (general use, changes from Brawl, pros/cons, notable properties, etc) according to the intended design behind the character. In the future, as quality video footage and discussions circulate, this guide will go more in-depth with discussing strategies.
Lastly, many of my opinions stated regarding these moves may indeed turn out to be inaccurate as the metagame progresses, so feel free to (kindly) debate anything I say. If Diddy players end up finding different uses for moves than what was initially prescribed then great! I'm always eager to discover alternate uses and strategies for moves, so please share them with your fellow Diddy players! And as always, suggestions to this guide and general questions are welcome.
Props to Ryoko and his Zelda primer on Smashmods for partly inspiring the idea and structure of this primer.
Now then... right on to this whippersnapper's moveset!
[collapse=Frame Data (Jab1)]
Input Window For 2nd Jab: 3
2nd Jab Starts: 6
[collapse=Frame Data (Jab2)]
Input Window For 3rd Jab: 2
3rd Jab Starts: 9
[collapse=Frame Data (Jab3)]
Input Window for Rapid Jab: 4
Rapid Jab Starts: 13
[/collapse][collapse=Frame Data (Repeating Jab)]
Minimum Duration: 45
Hits (After Startup): 2, 8, 13, 15, 20, 23 (looped)
Damage: 2, 1 (tail end)
The ol' 1-2 slap combo that ends with a mocking horse kick. Jab retains its title as Diddy's fastest move as the hitbox of the first attack emerges frame 3. It also still offers solid followups following either jab (moreso the first than the second) including Dtilt/grab at mid percents, and Dsmash/Nair at later percents.
Perhaps the most notable change with the jab sequence is that the third jab string (the kick) no longer automatically chains into his rapid jab (the tail whip), making it similar to Falcon's jab (the "Gentlemen"). Now you can input a standard 3-hit jab combo to rack up damage without worry of whiffing the optional rapid jab, and getting punished because of it.
Thankfully, rapid jab is not rendered useless even with the above change but still maintains situational use due in part to the reduced Smash Directional Influence (SDI) multiplier on its hitboxes (Brawl had the SDI potency double the normal amount!). This allows you to get some more damage in and give you a bit more time to gauge when to safely end the attack while your opponent is still mashing to get out. Also remember that - like in Brawl - Diddy's tail has no hurtbox, so this attack is fairly disjointed (in the spectrum of Diddy hitbox disjointedness, anyway).
Forward Tilt Attack (Ftilt)
A decently ranged, angle-able double-fist kill move. A key feature to note is that the KO potency of this move increases (launch angle decreases while damage and knockback growth increase) as you near the move's sweetspot, which is right on Diddy's fist as he stretches forward. Your will want to make an active effort to space this move well to get it KO'ing as early as possible. Due to the low horizontal trajectory of the move the normal and low-angled versions can be well-used as an additional edgeguarding tool alongside Diddy's aerials and specials. The upward-angle version can also be especially useful as a mix-up to snuff shorthopped approaches (remember that his hands don't have a hurtbox either!). One thing to be wary of is the rather long endlag (recovery phase) of the move; don't go throwing it out haphazardly or you might get severely punished![collapse=Frame Data]
Upward Tilt Attack (Utilt)
This upward swipe is one of Diddy's go-to juggles alongside Usmash and Nair against heavies and fastfallers. One substantial difference from its Brawl incarnation is the arm's position during the first few active frames; Diddy now starts the upward swipe with his arm right to his side (instead of behind him well into the z-axis), providing important frontal coverage. A solid anti-air.[collapse=Frame Data]
Downward Tilt Attack (Dtilt)
Damage: 7 (innermost hitbox), 8
The Clap! Quite up there as one of Diddy's best attacks overall and it's sure to become the bread-and-butter of Diddy's ground game. Extremely fast, decent range and difficult to punish due to low endlag. It's a wonderful move to punish out of a crouch cancel (CC) or as a follow up when chasing a tech from Dthrow or banana hit. Most notable, however, is the plethora of followups you have after using the move. DTilt will normally connect 2-3 times if your opponent is at lower percents and is great for conditioning opponents. Get them into a habit of shielding after your first Dtilt and go for a grab or SideB to punish accordingly.[collapse=Frame Data (Grounded)]
While dashing or running,
Hit: 7-18 (Strong Hit 7-11, Weaker Hit 12-18)
Damage:2 (first 4 hits), 4 (final hit)
[collapse=Frame Data (Aerial)]
Hit: 7-23 (Strong Hit 7-11, Weaker Hit 12-23)
Jump-Specific IASA: 23
Damage:2 (first 4 hits), 4 (final hit)
The infamous cartwheel attack from Brawl is back with a different flavor! It's now a 5-hit move with a relatively normal amount of endlag when performed on the ground. The hitboxes cover Diddy's inner body, leaving his arms, legs and head somewhat exposed. These hitboxes also now send upward and away, allowing Diddy to start some combos off a hit.
As mentioned in the official website description, the Kong can Dash Attack off platforms and edges. This aerial Dash Attack sports some additional benefits to the grounded version:
- There is a jump-specific interrupt window (Jump-cancel, or JC) just as the hitboxes disappear as Diddy emerges upright from the cartwheel.
- Diddy suffers zerolag upon landing from the aerial Dash Attack which allows him to act out of the landing immediately.
- Like any aerial, you can choose to fastfall this move to land faster onto the ground.These benefits truly shine on platform-heavy stages like Battlefield and Warioware, where you can incorporate off-the-platform Dash Attacks with wavelands and aerials to make your movements significantly faster and less predictable. The multi-hit aspect of the move makes it somewhat useful against CC (Crouch Canceling) and a deadly edgeguarding option. Well-timed Dash Attacks can often lead into Dairs, Fairs and even UpB's! But don't get too reckless; DI plays a big part in escaping multi-hits even after it has connected, so always keep the opponent guessing and don't be predictable!
Last but not least... while Project M removed the ability to immediately grab items off Dash Attacks (as well as the other normals), Diddy can grab items during his Dash Attack using the grab button (by default) while his hands are on the ground. It's overall a good idea to incorporate this technique with wavedash item grabs to strengthen your banana play.
Forward Smash Attack (Fsmash)
Charge Frame: 9
Hits: 13-17, 18-22
Damage: 5 (first hit), 14 (second hit)
A two-hit attack, this smash remains Diddy's slowest although it still serves great function as a slip or tech chase followup. In Project M Diddy now moves forward a fair distance through the active frames then steps back about half the original distance during the endlag. Though the significant startup and weakness to CC (even if you hit an opponent with the first part, he/she can react and crouch cancel the second and punish) may initially draw you in to relying on Dsmash or Ftilt more often for punishes and kills, take the extra range and harder-hitting hitboxes into consideration when deciding which move would be appropriate for any specific situation.
Upward Smash Attack (Usmash)
Charge Frame: 3
Hits: 5-9, 12-16, 19-25
Damage: 3 (first 2 hits), 9 (final hit)
Another of Diddy's great grounded launchers due to its fast startup, this 3-hit move sports the extra advantage of having the hitboxes start right behind Diddy before sweeping above him which further emphasizes its difference in use from Utilt's frontal coverage. Use this move along with Utilt, Uthrow and Nair to juggle for serious percent against heavies and fastfallers.
Downward Smash Attack (Dsmash)
Charge Frame: 1
Hits: 6-7, 14-17
Damage: 16 (front hit), 13 (back hit)
The smash that combines speed with power. Like Dtilt it comes out extremely quickly and kills moderately well. A solid followup to glide-tossed banana hits and Dthrow. As is common with similar Dsmashes the initial front hitbox hits harder than the second hitbox behind him. The only drawback with this move would be the significant endlag resulting from the second hit which makes you very vulnerable if you miss the move. However, due to its incredibly fast startup time, it’s possible to use Dsmash much more flexibly and aggressively than any other of Diddy's smashes. Space it well with wavedashes for an optimal punish.[collapse=Frame Data]
Neutral Aerial Attack (Nair)
Hit: 4-17 (Stronger Hit 4-7, Weaker Hit 8-17
Auto Cancel: <3 29>
Landing Lag: 18 (9 when L-canceled)
Damage:12 (stronger hit), 9 (weaker hit)
After messing with the character for 10 minutes any player can just about see the potential and versatility of Nair. It's another super-quick attack that launches the opponent upward allowing for combo shenanigans. Very potent aerial when SHFFL'd since it allows you to easily follow up. Though the hitboxes are quite small on this attack (4 small hitboxes just covering his hands and feet) Diddy's body rotation through the active frames allows for solid coverage all around him.[collapse=Frame Data]
The first picture shows the first active frame (just as the hitboxes emerge). Again, the hitboxes on this move are placed right on Diddy's hands and feets and also match the sizes (barely stretching past his extremities). The very beginning of the attack has 3 of the 4 hitboxes placed behind Diddy creating a "wall" and the last hitbox would start above and in front of the Kong (where his right hand is placed). Take this into consideration when using Nair out-of-shield (OoS).
Similar to Dash Attack it is sometimes preferable to hit with the weaker, lingering hit rather than the stronger initial hit to facilitate combos depending on the matchup and percentage of your opponent.
Forward Aerial Attack (Fair)
Hit: 6-14 (Stronger Hit 6-7, Weaker Hit 8-14)
Auto Cancel: <2 33>
Landing Lag: 22 (11 when L-canceled)
Damage: 14, 7
Kicked in yo chest, sonny! The sheer power and low angle simply make it the go-to aerial KO move. The initial hit which lasts a mere 2 frames rocks its sweetspot (sending at an even lower angle with extra damage) at the tip of Diddy's feet. The attack is similar to Sheik's in that its knockback scales very, very quickly with percent; at low percents it won't send very far but as you rack up the damage it becomes an extremely potent horizontal killer. The lingering hit afterward is significantly less powerful and sends at a higher angle but can still prove useful for securing an edgeguard.[collapse=Frame Data]
Backward Aerial Attack (Bair)
Auto Cancel: <2 23>
Landing Lag: 15 (8 when L-canceled)
Due to its unique combined attributes of fast startup, low endlag, and decent disjoint this move becomes a significant spacing and poking tool. It sports unusually low base knockback so it combos very well into itself and other moves at low and mid percents. Against characters with superior range you may find yourself relying on this with bananas quite a bit.[collapse=Frame Data]
Upward Aerial Attack (Uair)
Hit: 4-11 (Stronger Hit 4-7, Weaker Hit 8-11)
Auto Cancel: <4 22>
Landing Lag: 18 (9 when L-canceled)
Damage: 12, 8
The backflip now now functions closely to similar backflip Uairs like Mario's, Luigi's and Falcon's. The hitbox emerges just as Diddy brings his foot forward and continues on the leg through the flip until the foot swoops below him. The initial hit now sends the opponent diagonally upward; it starts combo strings moderately well against floaties at early percents and kills moderately well at higher percents. The latter hit of course gives less knockback but also sends diagonally upward (behind Diddy). A decent complement to Nair as its main advantage is the extra coverage it offers above Diddy over Nair when you're directly below your opponent.[collapse=Frame Data]
Downward Aerial Attack (Dair)
Auto Cancel: <11 33>
Landing Lag: 25 (12 when L-canceled)
Damage: 14 (upper hitbox), 15 (lower hitbox)
The first of 3 meteor attacks, Diddy smashes his fists downward to send opponents hurling to their doom or bouncing off the floor. Solid disjointedness since the hitbox extends from his body to about another fist length below his hand placement (the sweetspot). Because of the significant startup and endlag compared to the other meteors SideB and UpB Dair may see better use onstage. Use with great caution offstage!
[collapse=Frame Data (Standing Grab)]
Grabs & Throws
[collapse=Frame Data (Dash Grab)]
[collapse=Frame Data (Turnaround Grab)]
Diddy Kong's grab timings fall in line with what would be considered the norm amongst the cast. Though his grab ranges are comparatively short the sheer speed of his dash and run allow him to reliably land grab after grab. Make use of your projectiles to aid in securing the grab!____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your basic positional throw, the knockback and angle aren't too adept for starting combos so you'll mostly be using it to send the opponent offstage and prepare an edgeguard.
With slightly higher trajectory and knockback than Down Throw this throw becomes a mostly positional throw; you'll want to use it to simply get the opponent offstage behind you.
Diddy's main vertical KO move. Works amazingly well against floaties in low-ceiling stages. It also has juggling potential at low percents against some fastfallers; work this in with Usmash, Utilt and Nair to rack up some serious percent.
Diddy's main techchase throw. Against the majority of the cast it will force a groundbounce at low (and often medium) percents; use your sheer speed and/or nearby bananas to follow the tech and punish approprately!
Neutral Special: Peanut Popgun
Minimum Total Duration (No Charge): 37
Charge Frame (Peanut Shot if No Charge): 13
Air Dodge IASA (Aerial): 27
Though bananas are Diddy's definitive projectile, peanuts are perhaps an even better complement to his projectile and spacing game than in Brawl. To start off, the peanuts shoot at a much lower angle and the distance/charge scaling ratio is increased so a partially charged shot yields greater distance. With this more direct trajectory the peanuts should serve as an active, immediate threat.
Canceling the peanut charge now gives a proper, 8-frame cancel animation (part of a universal change regarding special cancels). You can still use this cancel in conjunction with B-reversals and glide-tosses for momentum tricksies. And speaking of momentum, there is no longer a sudden halt of momentum upon firing the peanut (so you won't suddenly drop straight down); backward momentum from the shot's recoil does remain, however and is added to whatever momentum you have at the time of the shot.
As for the peanut properties, they now clank against other clankable projectiles and hitboxes instead of simply breaking at the slightest touch. This helps Diddy deal with projectile-happy opponents while offering yet another projectile to help control the pace of the game to how he desires. Additionally, peanut knockback now properly scales with percent and charge time (damage). A fully-charged shot can very well secure a much-needed edgeguard or even outright KO at high percents.
Finally, Diddy can air dodge out an aerial peanut shot 13 frames into the animation; when performing perfectly-timed short-hop peanut shots (inputtingimmediately after Diddy leaves the ground) this air dodge window occurs just after the apex of the hop, as Diddy starts falling downward. Use this special interrupt window to waveland onto the ground and maneuver around the stage while keeping your opponent at bay with a peanut barrage.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________[collapse=Frame Data (Startup + Grab)]
Side Special: Monkey Flip
[collapse=Frame Data (Kick)][/collapse]
Hit: 4-25 (Stronger Hit 4-7, Weaker Hit 8-25)
Damage: 12, 7
A command grab that aids in recovery and delivers an alternate aerial attack with a lingering hitbox. Doesn't get much better than that! Its versatility was bumped up quite a bit in the transition to Project M. As far as physics go, Diddy covers roughly 25% more horizontal distance with a slightly lower vertical "hop". As in Brawl there is a tiltand smashversion of the Monkey Flip, with the smash version sending Diddy farther out. The Smash input is great for specifically covering distance and as an approach while the tilt will be the go-to for covering standing techs and securing offstage grabs with minimal risk if whiffed.
Side B sports two grabs; "Attack" (input using,orby default) and "Jump" (input using,orby default). The "Attack" throw has Diddy karate chopping his opponent, sending them upward . Makes for an excellent combo-starter onstage. Offstage is where you'll find use for the "Jump" throw which has Diddy jumping off the unfortunate soul's head, hurling em downward. Though Diddy's jump distance is lowered a tad, the strength of this meteor makes it a superb gimping tool. Predict the opponent's angle of recovery and go for the air grab! Or better yet, use bananas first to take em out of their recovery sweetspot range and followup up with a SideB Jump throw.
Though the move makes for a core recovery move alongside UpB, do take note that Diddy can only use it once per airtime. He either has to grab a ledge or land on the stage to use it again.
The other option out of SideB is the kick (input usingorby default during SideB's startup). It boasts low knockback growth, stays out for a relatively long time and packs more range than the grab option, making it yet again another combo-friendly option when you're unsure if the grab portion will connect.
[collapse=Startup + Active Frames (No Charge, Applies to both Grounded and Aerial versions)]
Up Special: RocketBarrel Boost
Charge Frame: 7
Hits: 8-45 (meteor hit only active frame 8)
Landing Lag: 18
As with his popguns Diddy has upgraded this wooden technology to better suit the Project M environment. In addition to the features provided on the character page (physics, the slower fall while charging, sideways weaving during the boost) Diddy can now ride up walls without fear of exploding and falling helplessly to his death. Use this key feature along with the new weaving ability to more easily sweetspot the ledge by angling toward and into the stage to reduce your height if you must charge up.
Another key note is the removal of the "helpless" animation Diddy would suffer upon getting hit out of the charge or boost. Diddy now suffers normal hitstun from attacks (no more high "hitstun" from a soft-hitting jab or tilt) and can tech (ledgetech!) regularly because of this.
The final major change to note would be the hitboxes of the boost. The main thing to remember would be that the power of the hits diminish over the course of the launch, with the initial liftoff hit being very, very powerful and the last hit being very, very weak. Clever players will want to find ways to finish their combos or secure hard reads with this potent liftoff hit for style points. One last thing to note is that the damage of all these hitboxes (including the initial meteor hit below Diddy) now increases with charge time at a rate of 1% every 11 frames. Under this system the minimum damage the boost can inflict is 5; the maximum is 19. Those who land the ultra-rare sweetspot at maximum charge earn style points in addition to a very early kill!
Down Special: Banana Peel Toss
Banana Released from Hand (Hitbox Generated): 20
The infamous banana peel makes its debut to Project M. As of 3.0 bananas retain the trip-on-hit feature from Brawl and although you can tech trips the speedy Kong can certainly follow up a read with several deadly punishes like Fsmash, Dsmash, grab or SideB.
Like in Brawl, Diddy players will want to take advantage of the two different toss lengths offered by the tiltand smashversions of this move to strengthen their edgeguarding and banana placement. The unique arcs of the toss are useful in forcing your recovering opponent into an unfavorable position and giving you more leeway in securing the gimp, edgehog or flat-out KO.
On top of that he can now force an opponent's trip when down-throwing a banana right by the opponent's feet. This effect ignores shields and with the enhanced glidetoss makes for yet another effective approach, mixup or out-of-shield option.
Immediately following a roll or air dodge,or(any direction)
This isn't the case. It's due to how their dash attacks actually work, not because they can dash attack off of ledges. They couldn't dash attack off of ledges in Brawl either, and they couldn't DACUS in Brawl.DK, diddy, and kirby cannot DACUS at all due to how we made their dash attacks work off ledges
Peach can absolutely dacus in pm and it's pretty good. The reason DK, Diddy, and Kirby cannot DACUS is because they exit the dash attack action in order to go off of the ledge.This isn't the case. It's due to how their dash attacks actually work, not because they can dash attack off of ledges. They couldn't dash attack off of ledges in Brawl either, and they couldn't DACUS in Brawl.
Peach can't DACUS either, in Brawl or PM.
My understanding was that characters with multi-part dash attacks can't DACUS in Brawl. This includes Peach (two hitboxes) and Diddy. Falco and Snake, meanwhile, only had a single hitbox.actually brawl peach can DACUS (as can... everyone? iirc), she just doesn't go anywhere
I agree though, toasters explanation was... half baked.
I have no idea what correlation there is between jumpsquats and an advanced technique that doesn't involve jumping. (in brawl, dash attack was only cancelable by up-smash and grab)