talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I've been absent from smashboards for a little while now. When I did frequent the site though, I remember hearing how G-dorf was going to be bottom barrel on the tier list. Is this still the general consensus?
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Still considered low?
- Thread starter talkingbeatles
- Start date
:034:
Smash Hero
Mostly, but I personally consider him better than Mario and Captain Falcon. Some people still think he's the absolute worst, though.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I just can't understand that. I'm looking at the character, pound for pound and he seems pretty **** good. I don't know why he's getting so much flak. I mean, I know a low tier character. In melee my third was Pichu and I main Falcon in Brawl.
Ganon is not low tier.
Ganon is not low tier.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Ganon isn't better then Mario. Mario has sick edge guarding skills and juggling options.
But I don't think anyone thinks Ganon is the worst, but he won't escape low tier IMO.
But I don't think anyone thinks Ganon is the worst, but he won't escape low tier IMO.
Renufus
Smash Apprentice
Ganondorf and C.Falcon are pretty much competing for the dubious honour of worst character in brawl.
After reading the thread about how G-dawg suffers landing lag even after sweetspotting, I'm tempted to give him the title. On top of the already long list of cons he has, now apparently he has a disadvantage in the very coding of the game that no other character has to deal with. That's how you know the developers didn't even try.
After reading the thread about how G-dawg suffers landing lag even after sweetspotting, I'm tempted to give him the title. On top of the already long list of cons he has, now apparently he has a disadvantage in the very coding of the game that no other character has to deal with. That's how you know the developers didn't even try.
It's partly because he doesn't have any 'glaring' advantages over other characters.
Really, people can only point out any specific disadvantages, since he doesn't have certain moves that shut down specific characters' approaches/moves altogether or alter their gameplay in a significant manner, or any obvious 'advantage' terrains, other than lava... lol.
For playing Ganon, it seems to be about landing a few good hits. IMO he punishes all characters equally when he gets the chance, but some are just... harder to get to than others.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
What he means is that there is a coding error within the game that makes it so recovering from a ledgegrab, there is always lag, no matter what. I.E. you cannot land and immediatly shield.
And personally, I believe that Falcon is a much worse character than GDorf. Gdorf's flame choke alone is such a unique move, that is propels him above C. Falcon. And personally, I think Yoshi is lower on the tier list, just because he is so gimmicky.
:034:
Smash Hero
11 characters suffer from this, mate.
Darkwolf1923
Smash Rookie
Ganondoef is not Low Tier at all.
Actually, he is High Tier. Just check out this video and see why i call him High Tier..... he has potential to be one of the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Vx9JQPGNA
Actually, he is High Tier. Just check out this video and see why i call him High Tier..... he has potential to be one of the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Vx9JQPGNA
I main lucario and tried out gannon, and it seems to me gannon is horribly placed. His sideb is a very effective chain, his down air can ko up at high percentages, and his forward air is as good was lucario's down air. His strength makes up for his lack of speed and so does his side b. I may use gannon as a second after what ive seen and practiced.
For some reason, the two have some synergy. I main ganon and sub Lucario, and I know alot of people who do that, or vice versa.
Tundraman12
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2008
- Messages
- 4
Gannon really that bad?
gantrain05
Smash Master
well by no means is he a MK or snake lol, but yeah he just doesn't have any real advantages over anybody, he's just a heavyweight with an arsenal of k.o. moves, he isn't bad, but he isn't good either, but a good ganon player can be really frustrating to fight.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
He's pretty lame considering that he's at a disadvantage against more than half of the roster. Of course, he is better than Captain Falcon, who stinks much worse.
Darkwolf1923
Smash Rookie
Ok listen up everyone!....... Just because all of the people you've seen play Ganondorf SUCK BALLS! Does not mean that he actually does! I mean, if you don't know what the **** your doing with him....then yea, your gonna suck. But a skilled Ganondorf player can match up to every single character in the game! You people need to learn that Ganondorf is by NO MEANS Low Tier! Why don't you all check out the Video in my sig......and form a second opinion about Ganondorf.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Being a little generous aren't you?
It's not more then half the cast, it's the cast, minus 5 neutrals.
Captain falcon has 3 neutrals and an advantage btw.
Which basically means that anyone using gannondorf has to be approximately twice as good to win.
That shouldn't be a problem, right guys?
GDorf players > all other players.
Flame Choke = Ganon is top tier.
Honestly, few characters have the variety of tricks that Ganon has at his disposal. Stutter-smashing, thunderstorming, Murder Choking, an aerial spike, an aerial gimp, a suicide move, an aerial grab, and to top it off, he hits like a truck. He is hard to use. But hard to use does not equal low tier.
Flame Choke = Ganon is top tier.
Honestly, few characters have the variety of tricks that Ganon has at his disposal. Stutter-smashing, thunderstorming, Murder Choking, an aerial spike, an aerial gimp, a suicide move, an aerial grab, and to top it off, he hits like a truck. He is hard to use. But hard to use does not equal low tier.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
If that's true, then I'm miles ahead of the people I play with.
Only, I know that isn't true. I can beat friends with Falcon and G-dorf. I mean, these guys are my main and second.
Where are you getting this info on neutrals and disadvantages?
gantrain05
Smash Master
i realize your a great ganon fan and i agree ganon does not suck balls if you know how to play with him, but alot of that combo video looked like the ppl u played against made alot of mistakes, granted you did do some wicked **** with the Gdawg he still isnt even close to being high tier.
~^.NoiR.^~
Smash Ace
Remember combo videos are highlights. I'll admit that video made me want to practice with gannon more just because that **** looked like fun **** to do, but in tournament play...ya
Ive done a few IRL tournies, and it is worth picking Gannon merely for shock value. Quite a few times, I placed well simply because the Fox that had never played a competitive GDorf before didnt know what to do, and even a few times they didn't know his moveset well enough to forumlate a counter strategy in time.
~^.NoiR.^~
Smash Ace
Those are called character match ups. Fortunately when I live (ATL) there are A LOT of players around me and a wide variety of characters. 10 matches and I can figure out gannon and then hes not as effective. Not worth practicing so many hours for no reason =\
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Oooh... wow. Every character is worth practicing. I loved taking out Pichu in Melee and beating people with him. You could chalk that up to shock value, but despite what people say Pichu did have some saving graces. As does every character, even in Brawl. I can't believe I'm saying this about G-dorf, because this guy doesn't need my defense. Ganon is a strong character. He's not top tier, and nobody seriously claims he is. But surely, he is worth practicing with.
Ah. Out here in Cali, people are pretty much elitists. If it isn't top tier, they don't bother. If they do bother, they aren't that good. 95% of all the players I know/have played use either a space animal, Marth, or Snake.
And recently I started to use Snake too >.>
And recently I started to use Snake too >.>
Every character is worth using. It is just a matter of playing style. I like GDorf because I like mindgames more than I like being cheap with Marth. He is hard to play with, but that doesn't mean he sucks. Look at Lucario. Excellent character, hard to play effectively. Same with Snake.
Darkwolf1923
Smash Rookie
Yes, you are correct! I just wish everyone here who is talking **** about Ganondorf would step up and give me their Wii Codes so i can kick their ***** and be done with it!
~^.NoiR.^~
Smash Ace
Well unlike you and many other teens, I have nowhere near enough time to spend 10 hours a day practicing all of the different characters. I have bills to pay for and soon more bills to pay for. If I want to win money I will practice the character that I think shows the most potential to be the best and master him.
I think sliq said it the best when he said...just give him more opportunities to join more tournaments and he will show you the potential of Ganon...I have to say..i agree
I think the main problem is that most of you guys havent actually seen any good ganons participating in tournaments (at least ones that haven't been recorded)..
Once you guys start watching a couple of good ganondorfs pwning a couple of good MK or snakes...you might start having more faith in the old geezer..
I think the main problem is that most of you guys havent actually seen any good ganons participating in tournaments (at least ones that haven't been recorded)..
Once you guys start watching a couple of good ganondorfs pwning a couple of good MK or snakes...you might start having more faith in the old geezer..
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Wow...
I can't tell if you're assuming I'm a teenager, (which I am not,) or if you're just lumping me in that age category. I'm a college student. I don't have ten hours a day to play video games. I've never even been to a tournament before. I play casually. Even if I did play professionally I would never play a character because of tier placement, I'd play a character because I like that character.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
He has some nice tricks, but he lacks the ability to control the match, he can punish mistakes well, if opponents leave an opening, but a lot of characters are good at not leaving openings, especially the higher tiers, and because Gannondorf is so slow, he needs bigger openings to work.
Ultimately it's a case where hard to use = low payout to effort ratio as compared to other characters. And it's not like he has some point of skill where this ratio changes dramatically like melee fox. Sorry, but I love Gannondorf, he's been one of my fav secondaries since melee, but they broke him in this game.
No you really are, what makes you think that you aren't?
Granted, it might be that your gannondorf game is miles ahead of the rest of the cast for whatever reason... or there is a chance that they're just be with everyone except gannondorf's neutrals (or have just been playing gannondorf's neutrals against gannondorf). Or possibly they just don't know how to play against gannondorf which only should last for a short time.
Regardless, it does suggest that you're better then your friends, if only with gannondorf.
For the info, the match-up thread. Granted, it's obviously not 100% accurate, but it should give you a good idea of how effective a character in general because the majority of match-ups will hold.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I've been to the thread. While I think it is pretty well thought out for the most part, there are some points I really take issue with.
Heh. Granted I'm not really arguing about Ganon's place on the list. My main beef is Falcon's placement of advantages and disadvantages. I really don't think that Ganon has any advantages in the game. I still don't put much stock in the chart. It's a great idea, but I think it should still be open to edits, since the game is still so new.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Then argue, it is open to edits. Convince people about the specific match-ups and it'll change, it's constantly being updated.
That said, falcon lacks priority to an insane degree. If he gets the initial hit in, he COULD combo, if Brawl's engine didn't have no hitstun whatsoever.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Heh, I have been going there. It's a fun thread to debate in.
And yeah, I know Falcon has terrible priority. Um... that's why it's fun to play him. The challenge I guess because of the bad priority and uh... oh man I'm digging myself into a hole.
It's all because of the knee. The PUNCH and the knee.
The Knee of Justice.
EDIT: Um... Ganon's also cool.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
You know, technically captain falcon cannot be charged with obstruction of justice because it's impossible for somebody to be in two places at once.
Yeah, I know, bottom tiers for the win, he may suck but I love playing Gannondorf.
(though the universe compensated me by making me a Marth main I think)
~^.NoiR.^~
Smash Ace
You must not be very good if you practice a little bit of each character then.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Anomilus
Smash Lord
^^ Pretty much. Ganondorf needs improvements, but not in the same manner you would improve a character to make them worth playing. Rather, Ganon just needs some adjustments that wouldn't cause him to be at a disadvantage against almost everybody. Even then, as it was mentioned, Ganondorf can equally punish every other character, and pretty heavily at that.
Darkwolf1923
Smash Rookie
Hey *******. GANONDORF DOES NOT SUCK IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE HIM! I wish you can all get that through your thick little skulls! Why don't you check out my video, and form a second opinion about Ganondorf.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Skill beats all...
Even when you're playing a meta-player, if there's enough of a gap between your mindgames and/or technical skill and there's (obviously, only if the gap is in your favor), you win.
The nice thing about ganondorf is that he doesn't need a particularly large gap in either to win, he hits like a bus full of fat people so all you need is a few mistakes to capitalize off of, especially with his awesome dair.
But except for a few characters, the gap does need to be in the gannondorf player's favor to a considerable degree. That does mean the character sucks unfortunately, because how good a character is, well that's based on how much better your opponent has to be then you to win, and for ganondorf the answer is, "none, in fact they can be considerably worse then you and you'll still lose".
So, ganondorf does suck, and watching your video (which I've done before, and can exucute everything from...) isn't gonna change my opinion on that. I guess I'm stuck with just having to be a lot better then my opponents whenever I break out my beloved secondary, ganondorf.
The video is cool btw.
Ps. why does it seem like every ganondorf player loves metal, especially death or black metal? It seems like all his combo videos use it exclusively, not that I'm complaining. Except triforce of power, way back when we were still all playing melee and tipman hadn't retired... and gannondorf was actually good.