Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[Onichi]

I don't see how Samurai Panda could state with confidence that he feels there will not be a starting roster update when we have had other fresh player (given) updates ('You Must Recover!', 'Standard A Attacks' etc.), and other filler Updates ( "Widescreen support', "Previous items/pokemon"). I mean there is a full one and a half to two months of update days to cover if Sakurai wants to keep his promise.

Plus with all the work he has done on the Subspace Emissary, I would think that Sonic being a reward at the end to unlock would give those people, who want to play Sonic and only Sonic that has been stated, a reason to enjoy it. I'm Sure Sakurai would see that as an opportunity for his work to be appreciated by an even larger audience.

 

[Boofer]

Also, before I forget. I just thought of something interesting for all those people who use compare the Melee demo to the Brawl demo. The Melee demo didn't have any unlockable characters available. The Brawl demo has Sonic. Is Sonic really going to be unlockable? And if he is, then doesn't that evidence in itself refute any argument that the Melee demo roster can be compared to the Brawl demo roster?

Actually, Darkurai brought up a fairly good point concerning Sonic:

Oh hey, wow. Look at this.

The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable.

Why would it be a problem? Obviously it has nothing to do with Sonic being rushed to be playable in the demo, since I don't remember any complaints about Sonic being glitchy or feeling unfinished. "All this trouble" likely refers to the demo being playable at E for All. So if Sonic is a starter, what could possibly be the problem with putting him there? This pretty much axes your whole theory.

Indeed, if he's a starter, why would Sakurai even say this?

 

[Cless]

He's a newcomer. Sakurai wants to give us a new experience, or so SP argues.

 

[gigasteve]

Actually, Darkurai brought up a fairly good point concerning Sonic:



Indeed, if he's a starter, why would Sakurai even say this?

Thanks 4 pointing that out. I forgot about that in my thread (refer to sig). I will prove this theory wrong, b/c I know it is.

 

[JusDBerube]

Sorry if I am repeating something but I don't agree with this theory and yes I have a reason. At the end of the update it says:

"You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl."

Why would he go and put hidden character spoilers on the Dojo after saying that? He comes out and warns players how to avoid spoilers in the game, so why would he go out and then say, "BTW Kirby, King Dedede, Wario, Pokémon Trainer, Snake, Lucas, Zelda, and Ice Climbers are hidden. Sorry for the Spoilers"

That just doesn't make sense to me and I'd love to hear a reply about this.

 

[gigasteve]

Sorry if I am repeating something but I don't agree with this theory and yes I have a reason. At the end of the update it says:

"You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl."

Why would he go and put hidden character spoilers on the Dojo after saying that? He comes out and warns players how to avoid spoilers in the game, so why would he go out and then say, "BTW Kirby, King Dedede, Wario, Pokémon Trainer, Snake, Lucas, Zelda, and Ice Climbers are hidden. Sorry for the Spoilers"

That just doesn't make sense to me and I'd love to hear a reply about this.

TOTALLY agree. also, check out my (closed) thread in my sig. It gives facts and evidence proving this wrong.

 

[RegalBuster]

gigasteve there is no topic in that link.

 

[PaperLink]

Aww...no one likes my mad paint skillz?

 

[Diddy&Dixie4evr]

Love your theory, sounds plaussible and I think I can agree.

 

[Brockman5]

What are you talking about^^^???

 

[The Hypnotist]

I still love you SP, and your blog, we all make mistakes. Error is inevitable.

 

[Shiekyerbouti]

The only thing that throws me off is the lack of Sonic on the box art.
I can't really see why they wouldn't put him on the cover if he was in the starting roster. He has a HUGE amount of "wow factor" and I really think his picture on the cover of the game would help increase sales towards casual gamers (just look at Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. That game was based solely on "wow factor".)
From an advertising standpoint it just doesn't seem to make sense.

You have a very interesting theory though, and I can't wait to see how it plays out.

 

[detroitpistons_fan_23]

The only thing i can think of why that might not be is that the characters in the first few event matches arent there... maybe you gotta unlock the event matches but i have a feeling this could be our starting roster... well done SP

 

[KazenoZ]

Major counter point
(Sorry, for getting your attention =P)

As some of you might know, there's been a public demo before Melee came out as well, a pic of the selection screen:

As you can see, aside from the 3 characters that are being blocked by that guy's head, there are(By order)
Yoshi, DK, Pikachu, Ness, Mario, Samus, Link, Bowser and Fox.
From the P4 picture, we also know that Captain Falcon was also in the demo.
That leaves 4 characters out; Zelda, Peach, IC, and Kirby, 2 of which are there for filling the 2 last spots,, but blocked by the huge head =\
That means either 2 of these weren't in the demo, yet were starters.

Though, it was from Melee, seeing how different Brawl is, it's still from the same series, if anyone could get confirmation, on either the original SSB's demo cast(If there even was a demo for that), or confirm the last 2 characters out of these 4, that would help dis/prove this idea, and would give us another direction towards the solution to this.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Erimir]

Read at least some of the thread. People have posted this picture multiple times:

 

[raul]

I did not read every post on this thread, but let me just throw this out there...(sorry if its been thrown out there already)....

What if that the character select screen in question is meaningless, as I believe it is because, well, lets think about. Obviously a video games goes threw many testing and development stages and what if this screen was just one of those screens not only used at E for All, but also for development and testing purposes? Perhaps it has no meaning at all except for another testing screen.

 

[gigasteve]

I admit SP's theory had me at first, but I thought about several factors that may prove this false. Whether you take good or bad, I just want to make my points. I am sorry I did not post this in SP's thread, but this is stuff that I must make clear. This is the gigasteve theory.
First of all, some of you believe that the E 4 All roster may have been just for the demo. Well, Sakurai said that this roster would be LIMITED. This leads me to think that he made this roster for two reasons.
1. He didn't want to reveal the entire roster (surprise, still in progress, didn't want to reveal Sheik, Kirby hats, FS's, etc.)
2. EVERYONE (or at least a major amount) wanted to play as Sonic, so he made an exception to unlockable characters. Also, Sakurai sounded generous to make an exception in his update for E 4 All, which is why Sonic made the cut. Also, sakurai said he would have trouble putting Sonic in, probably because Sonic isn't a starter.

And about Snake, I don't Sakurai would be generous enough to show all the unlock characters. It is just a demo. And the stage selection was also limited (assuming all the stage updates recently aren't unlocks, and I doubt Hyrule Temple would be). I'm not sure about items, though.
And also, although you put up an argument about Kirby and everyone else being unlockable, I don't think you would unlock someone every 10 minutes in a 10-hour SSE (unless there are really that many characters?). And also, in event mode, Dedede, Wario, and Kirby are among the first matches. I don't think there would be three ways to unlock Kirby (SSE, events, vs mode was the alternative in Melee).
And one more thing, the way the demo roster was organized. It was totally random roster. I know this may not be much, but in Melee, Pikachu was the only one switched. And why weren't Mario and Bowser next to each other? I don't think they have the same case as Pikachu. Also, SP said Sonic was put on the roster to promote Brawl. Well, that roster did, and like Sakurai said, with the internet these days, everyone will know. All of the points I made in this thread are not saying which characters will and will not be on the starting roster, they are just my facts and evidence. I think I have gotten all my points across, but if I think of any more, I will edit. And I hope I got my point across.
This was my original thread, since the link doesn't work.

 

[pud22]

that is not the full or exact starting roster. i mean honestly how can any beleive that the DEMO contains the exact roster u will start off wit. kirby has been a startr since the beggining and zelda who is most def a startr. and gigasteve is right it doesnt make sense to unlock a new char evry 10 mins u progress through SSE...

^^i dunno bout them temple stage being a strater...i cant remember if the past stages in Melee were unlockable or there from the beginning

 

[raul]

that is not the full or exact starting roster. i mean honestly how can any beleive that the DEMO contains the exact roster u will start off wit. kirby has been a startr since the beggining and zelda who is most def a startr. and gigasteve is right it doesnt make sense to unlock a new char evry 10 mins u progress through SSE...

^^i dunno bout them temple stage being a strater...i cant remember if the past stages in Melee were unlockable or there from the beginning

Agreed. In the past we had to do target tests, hom run contests, events, and other such things to unlock characters and stages. If we unlock character through mainly the SSE we will have very little use for the rest of the game.

 

[gigasteve]

^ It was in Melee, but still, it's just an example and something to think about.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I have yet to read anything that outright proves SamuraiPanda's theory false. Of course, it is just a theory, so I am not suggesting that it is 100% true, but I sense a pattern in the rebuttals: "Sakurai did X in smash game Y." Is Sakurai not allowed to change the way he does things? Nothing presented can be considered proof. Sure, it was the demo screen at E4All, but is that really "proof"? Is there some law that demo screens have to include less than the starting roster?

So please, continue discussing it, but don't talk about "proof" unless you actually have some.

 

[gigasteve]

DID YOU NOT READ MY POST (above). Although it is not 100% proof, there is none currently, so I guess we have to wait until Sat. to prove I am right.

 

[RegalBuster]

look at the melee demo see how there's no kirby and the characters are all jumbled up that's how the brawl demo was and how that pic was.

Every character shown on the demo(aside from Sonic) will be a starter,yes, but Kirby, IC, Dedede, Zelda, Red and Wario are starters as well.

 

[Classic-Black]

I still say that having the main character from a series as an unlockable when another character from that franchise is there from the beginning highly suspect. So what if Kirby's the first person you fight. If you picked him your first fight would be Mario. And it wouldn't have made any sense for MARIO to be unlockable, so it doesn't for Kirby. There's no real rhyme or reason for that

 

[KazenoZ]

Read at least some of the thread. People have posted this picture multiple times:

25 pages is kind of alot you know, sorry for having a life =P

Btw, thanks for that, I never thought those spaces were empty.


Oh, another counterpoint on this, probably not as big as some of the others but look still,
The four main characters who were the symbols of the game, right from the beginning, through Melee, all the way to Brawl were Link, Mario, Pikachu and Kirby, they're the core characters of this game, each representing a bit different type of play in their respective games, dragging in players of most genres, you can see that in the intros, movies and commercials. That, like I said, did not change through Brawl either, proof is this, as you can see, again, the 4 main cast characters are the first characters being featured in the game.
This might not be solid proof, or even proof at all, but I'm sorry, I just find it madly stupid making one of the 4 core characters an unlockable.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

DID YOU NOT READ MY POST (above). Although it is not 100% proof, there is none currently, so I guess we have to wait until Sat. to prove I am right.

My statements were directed toward everyone. You are not the center of the debate here.

 

[raul]

I still say that having the main character from a series as an unlockable when another character from that franchise is there from the beginning highly suspect. So what if Kirby's the first person you fight. If you picked him your first fight would be Mario. And it wouldn't have made any sense for MARIO to be unlockable, so it doesn't for Kirby. There's no real rhyme or reason for that

I agree with this as well. An example outside of Kirby is the Donkey Kong series. Donkey Kog is the main guy, but yet Diddy Kong is present too. As of right now, we have no other known DK reps, so one would not think Diddy Kong was a starting character right off the bat, unless perhaps K.Rool or even Dixie were in the game as unlockables.

 

[RegalBuster]

Dixie is an alt color scheme for Diddy so she won't be playable and i'm quite certain that K. Rool will be playable.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Having Kirby secret and MetaKnight as a starter is like having Diddy as a starter and Donkey Kong secret.

 

[RegalBuster]

Having Kirby secret and MetaKnight as a starter is like having Diddy as a starter and Donkey Kong secret.

or having Zelda a starter and Link unlockable or Peach a starter and Mario unlockable.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

But you all act like these are horrible taboos! Too many of you are approaching this from an emotional point of view, not a logical one. Seriously, have you all forgotten that Luigi had to be unlocked? What rule says that DK, Zelda, Kirby, etc. have to unlocked from the start? It makes no sense!

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

But you all act like these are horrible taboos! Too many of you are approaching this from an emotional point of view, not a logical one. Seriously, have you all forgotten that Luigi had to be unlocked? What rule says that DK, Zelda, Kirby, etc. have to unlocked from the start? It makes no sense!

Emotional? I seriously wouldn't care if Kirby was an unlockable that you just so happen to unlock playing the first 10 seconds of the Subspace Emissary. Seriously, there is no rule, but if they're gonna hide Kirby might as well hide MetaKnight then.

Luigi is secondary to Mario, and more or less on the same level of importance as Peach and Bowser. Unlocking him is not really groundbreaking. Now, if you had Luigi as a starter and Mario unlockable...

Once again, MetaKnight starter and Kirby hidden is like Ridley as a starter and Samus hidden.

 

[Classic-Black]

But unlike Luigi, Dk and Kirby (and Zelda to a slightly lesser) are the main characters of their respective franchise. It would not make sense to have the main character unlockable when another character from the same franchise is not.

it would be like starting the game with Luigi, but having to unlock Mario. DOes that make sense?

 

[LipeCau]

Wow, that's really stupid. First every theory thread is locked and now there's this one.
Of course there's no argument against it, it's a simple assumption. And yet, I've seen a lot of good arguments against it.
Bad thread Samurai.
He's a mod, the biggest smash fan translator and is in the podcast, OF COURSE there'll be a bunch a followers to his thread saying he's right.
But hey, even if he is, he still didn't know about it. Just another stupid theory that should be locked just like the others for the same reason.

 

[raul]

I just dont see what the benefit is to making characters that are usually already starting characters, like Kirby, lockable for Brawl. Kirby has been a starting character since the 64 game, why now would he be lockable? If that is a way to get more "unlockable characters" than that sounds like a cop-out to me.

 

[i rise]

Wow, that's really stupid. First every theory thread is locked and now there's this one.
Of course there's no argument against it, it's a simple assumption. And yet, I've seen a lot of good arguments against it.
Bad thread Samurai.
He's a mod, the biggest smash fan translator and is in the podcast, OF COURSE there'll be a bunch a followers to his thread saying he's right.
But hey, even if he is, he still didn't know about it. Just another stupid theory that should be locked just like the others for the same reason.

i'm sure the reason the other theory thread got locked was flame wars or spam. it was open for quite some while so it's not like the mods were out to get it or something. i think SP has some good points, although i don't really agree with him. if you've spent time reading this thread at all you'd see the majority of people disagree so no one is following what he says due to popularity.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Emotional? I seriously wouldn't care if Kirby was an unlockable that you just so happen to unlock playing the first 10 seconds of the Subspace Emissary. Seriously, there is no rule, but if they're gonna hide Kirby might as well hide MetaKnight then.

Luigi is secondary to Mario, and more or less on the same level of importance as Peach and Bowser. Unlocking him is not really groundbreaking. Now, if you had Luigi as a starter and Mario unlockable...

Once again, MetaKnight starter and Kirby hidden is like Ridley as a starter and Samus hidden.

So what? Who cares if Ridley is a starter while Samus is hidden? Did you read the theoracy all the way through? The idea is that you unlock characters really fast as opposed to bending over backwards to unlock some uber character. Why is this so hard to grasp onto? Sure, it doesn't make sense to us, but you still offer no real logic to the situation. It cracks me up how every counter argument revolves around "there is no reason" and "it doesn't make sense".

 

[FireWater]

I like the theory, but we will see if it corresponds with reality. Remember the E for All thing was just a demo. As far as the screenshot online, we have no idea if it is the final version or the demo roster.

Lots of good points, even if it is not true however.

 

[Classic-Black]

i'd say the same thing if Mario was the one that had to be unlocked, even if he was in the first match.

umlocking characters purely for the sake of unlocking them is bull****. SP's post does'nt offer any solid reason why a character like Kirby would be locked off the bat. you fight him first? YOu could fight Mario first, but the plumber is still unlocked from the beginning. And, unlike every other character unlocked according to SP's theory, Kirby is the franchise character. I doubt he would be locked in favor of a character who, subjectively, could be considered cooler. and there's been no good reasoning to show otherwise

 

[LipeCau]

i'm sure the reason the other theory thread got locked was flame wars or spam. it was open for quite some while so it's not like the mods were out to get it or something. i think SP has some good points, although i don't really agree with him. if you've spent time reading this thread at all you'd see the majority of people disagree so no one is following what he says due to popularity.

I did read almost every post, I know that. What I meant to say is that his thread is build up on assumptions just like the others (btw, I've never done one, this is not a "hey, he locked my thread, lock his").
So basically what I mean is that he has a lot of poor points despite a few people saying (including him) "it's impossible to come up with a good argument against this theory" making this thread not better then any other.