Standard Terms List (Currently Discussing Marth terms)

[Vyse]

I approve of 'grab gimping'.
(Unless somebody can suggest something better?)

Grab Release Gimp (GRG) sounds a bit more specific, though there's still some explaining needed behind it.

 

[Steel]

How about "grenade stripping," does this deserve a new name?

 

[Kirk]

Grab Release Gimp seems pretty good. It could possibly refer to grabbing opponents after they use their second jump as well, since you don't get your second jump back if you get grabbed before you touch the ground.

Yoshi comes to mind...I've done this a few times against Yoshis using their double jump close to the edge, grabbing them and waiting for the grab release. After the release, they don't have the right momentum to get back to the stage with the Egg Toss. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kcXRimxafw - at the end of this video.

I know that it's different than what we're talking about, as characters can still use their Up-B or other actions. It still can be a gimp to some characters...since their options would be limited for recovery and you can time grabbing the ledge more easily. Doesn't come up very often I suppose...just throwing out random ideas.

In the end, it probably shouldn't be included...as it's not a true gimp like it would be for Snake, G&W or Sonic. Curse my ramblings...

-----

"Grenade Stripping" seems fine the way it is to me.

 

[Zankoku]

Grab pummels don't return a second jump. You can seriously mess recoveries up if they don't realize this.

 

[SCOTU]

Now discussing DDD!

 

[Mmac]

Does.... Dedede even have anything else?

 

[SCOTU]

so basically, swf just totally decided to ghey up my angle bracket titles... for some reason... when it didn't before...

 

[Xiivi]

I don't really like Regicide. But I don't have a different suggestion except swallow suicide. :/

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We should use the same term to refer to King Dedede and Kirby using Inhale for suicide attacks; when we can minimize vocabulary, it's good. Actually, I suggest we go with the really bland and self-explanatory "suicide grab" to refer to all moves with grab properties that are useful in suicide attacks. That's what, Donkey Kong's cargo, Diddy Kong's Monkey Flip, Wario's Bite, Yoshi's Egg Lay (if the opponent is a moron), King Dedede and Kirby's Inhale, Bowser's Suplex, and Ganondorf's Flame Choke (Lucario's Force Palm?)? There is the disadvantage that some players might not find the fact that specials can be grabs obvious, but it's the best I can come up with that minimizes the number of terms we need in the end and hopefully makes it as easy as possible for new players (it also is doubly convenient in having the potential of being universal with smash 64 and melee). It may be worth noting in any compendium of terms that [possibly shortened character name]-cide is a common substitute as well. Bowsercise, Kirbycide, Ganoncide, etc. which suggests that with that naming convention we should actually say "Dededecide" instead of "Regicide".

King Dedede also has the terminology with his chaingrab to worry about, to separate the standing version (that is infinite on DK, infinite at high damage on Mario, Luigi, and Samus, and effective on Bowser, Wolf, etc.) with the running version (that works on every character heavier than Zelda/Sheik except Luigi). I suggest we go with the very bland "standing chaingrab" and "running chaingrab". Some people like to use the term "infinite chaingrab" to refer to King Dedede's chaingrab, but since he does move forward against some characters and can't force it from 0% on others, I don't feel as though that's fully accurate. There's also a ruleset controversy over that chaingrab so using a completely neutral term like "standing" instead of the loaded "infinite" should be preferred.

 

[SCOTU]

I don't think that terms are required for DDD's chaingrabs, although, i did forget to include the term "chain grab" lol.

I could agree with the term "swallowcide" for both DDD's and Kirby's swallowing suicides, but i don't think that one unified term for every type of grabbox based suicide, since they're all awfully different.

Techncially, the "swallowcide" was used for kirby's swallow suicide KO, when "Kirbicide" was used for his throws (which no longer do that_.

 

[infomon]

I've seen quite a few Sonics get "Cyper Grabbed."

I'm still not entirely sure why it needs a term. I originally made a thread about the "cypher grab" to explain why it was a faulty term, since you weren't actually grabbing the Cypher, and made note that all it was was abusing the fact that those characters didn't get their Up+Bs back from a grab release.

So, there are a few things going on here. Most characters go into a "fall special" state after using some particular recovery Specials (like Yoshi's side-B, lol). For some characters they have a categorically different state from which they can still attack, airdodge, or use some Specials, and these states have some problems because of glitchiness with the way Brawl handles jump data. I don't know how common the term "fall special" is used for the falling-and-can't-do-anything state, but noone has a consistent name for the "falling-and-can-do-some-things" state. For now I'll call it an "active fall" for convenience in this post, but I just made that up and it might be nice if there was a legitimate accepted name for this character state.

The term air tripping is very commonly used for the circumstance in which a character unexpectedly ends up in this "active fall" state. For example:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOiGOvTzws

It can be triggered by a number of things, not just grab-release. Sonics know about air tripping all too well. One way we can air trip is by up-B'ing low enough below the stage that we land on the platform at the apex of the jump, before Sonic descends by any amount. We can then run around the ground all we want, use attacks etc., but as soon as we leave the platform, we're already in the "active fall" state. I don't know if Snake and the others are also susceptible to this method of air tripping, but a good place to test may be Yoshi's Island (Brawl), since the angled lip helps it happen a lot (ergh).

Another way to air trip (at least with Sonic) is by grabbing onto a ladder. You can climb onto land after, but you're still air-tripped until you either get hit, or land "legitimately" onto a platform.

What's interesting about grab-gimping someone into an air trip, is that it doesn't have to be a gimp right away. I've heard of a Sonic main (I think Tenki, could be wrong tho) intentionally grab+releasing a Snake who was returning to the stage with cypher. It was a standing grab-release, the snake kept fighting on the ground, but the wiley Sonic intentionally mindgamed the Snake to jump off the stage into an air-trip KO.

... I don't know if you're air-tripped after landing on the stage from an air-release'd grab, but that's an easy thing to check.

Anyway, so I'm indifferent to the term "grab gimping", I'm not sure a term for that is necessary but it could help. But I don't think it deprecates the use of the term "air trip", which isn't a great term but isn't too bad, and I think is already pretty widespread.

 

[leafgreen386]

Hm, the "air trip" you're describing reminds me a lot of various characters' triple jump glitch, where they grab the edge but don't lose their landlag (I don't have a complete list of characters but I know ganon, falcon, and marth are all affected). For those, if you just get up on the stage normally and then try jumping again, you'll get the landlag, even though you could do anything in the air, but after that the game behaves normally. I assume it's the same way with sonic's air tripping, and jumping clears it?

 

[Pierce7d]

(Yes, the most annoying glitch in the history of Brawl, I'd LOVE for THAT to be hacked out)

I agree that grab stock trading in general should have a universal name. However, I think DK's is a different exception, not so much because he has to use his regular grab to do it, but more importantly because it cannot be triggered from the air, while falling, which is the most common way to execute any of these techniques. Also, no one should really die from DK jumping off the edge, merely from him throwing you into the stage, and you failing to tech, and DK can recover from this, so it isn't really stock trading at all.

There are slight differences between some of these as well. Diddy can jump off of you, performing a gimp without dying. Kirby can spit characters under a stage, and fly to recovery. Bowser and Ganon don't have abort options once they start descending, etc. However, I think the common idea behind these techniques is that you use a special move to grab an opponent in midair, which enables low percent kills due to falling, and can result in trading a stock for a stock. That being said, I think only one term is needed, because players can differentiate by simply naming the character they are using to do this with.

I would say "Grab RELEASE gimping" is a better name for the term we were discussing before, and for this "Special Grab Gimping" is a suitable name, since ALL of these techniques utilize a special move that is a grab to gimp the opponent. GRG and SGG anyone?

One saying referring to D3's inhale would simply say "D3's Special Grab Gimp, or D3's SGG."

I'm conflicted, because Inhale-cide (what I commonly refer to it as) is actually simpler to say, but it's not like we're stopping the community from nick-naming individual moves and techniques. and I think Special Grab Gimping is a decent name for it., and that abbreviating it into SGG does ease typing considerably.

Also, for D3's chaingrabs. When he "infinitely" CGs against a wall, it should just be called a "Wall chaingrab" because it's pretty obvious what we're talking about, and not all walls remain interminably. This helps differentiate between his actually infinite cgs on some characters. Additionally, Ike can do the same thing, so it's better as a universal term in that sense (although Ike cannot begin his throw away from a wall and continue it into a wall, which is what truly make D3's WCG powerful.)

 

[SCOTU]

now discussing FALCO

 

[Vyse]

*Max Revive*

What does Falco have that is character specific?

We've already discussed DLX-Hit Cancel elsewhere.

 

[Hylian]

Silent Laser: Pressing B right before you touch the ground so that your laser does not make a sound.

SHDL and SHL if you want...

ummm..


SHphantasm - Doing a SH and Phantasming as soon as possible removes a ton of lag from Falco's phantasm...

Laserlock...

Um...

When Falco Side-B's to recover and it's cancelled so that Falco can preform any action immediatly.

3 or 4 different lengths for his phantasm...

I think that's it for falco.

 

[Zankoku]

I think Silent Laser is a silly thing to name. You can "Silent Stunner" and "Silent a lot of other things" too, due to the sound event of the projectile being on a later frame than the projectile actually being fired, for some inexplicable reason.

 

[SCOTU]

i guess we're working on Marth Now. I added Short hop double fair. Does he really have anything else?

 

[Steel]

he has this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5rifkmIm8

he also has the "windbox" counter technique discovered by pierce, im sure hell bring that up once hes home

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh, the Stun Jacket you mean? Yeah, I hit a brickwall on doing research there, and got more interested in different types of hitboxes. It was before the Smash Lab was around, so I didn't have you genius to help me figure this stuff out. Here's a link to my original thread though.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5674590#post5674590

Oh, btw, I think it's pretty silly to name just SHDFair, since Marth can also use any of his other aerials after a Fair in a shorthop, and lots of other characters can do more than one aerial in a SH. I suppose it is a popular term though.

 

[SCOTU]

guys, you know that one flag that gets set when you use one of many recovery techniques that says "if this flag is set, and you land on the ground, any landing lag cannot be IASA'd; reset flag"? What do we call this kind of lag?

I propose "Stupid Lag", alternatively "Brawl Sucks Lag". BSL, i like it.

 

[leafgreen386]

guys, you know that one flag that gets set when you use one of many recovery techniques that says "if this flag is set, and you land on the ground, any landing lag cannot be IASA'd; reset flag"? What do we call this kind of lag?

I propose "Stupid Lag", alternatively "Brawl Sucks Lag". BSL, i like it.

lol I love the name. I think you're referring to the triple jump glitch, right? Where grabbing the ledge doesn't get rid of your lag? The simplest thing you could call it would just be TJG lag (assuming there are no qualms with the original denotation of this glitch as "triple jump glitch").

 

[Steel]

i do propose a standard marth term to be called "Ankoku'ng" (fsmashing)

 

[Steel]

so apparently you can cancel marths shield breaker when it hits your shield so it doesnt... break. nikok did it at cot4 vs pierce7d. he seems to be keeping it a secret for now but im sure hell let it slip eventually

 

[Mic_128]

So how's thing looking? Perhaps while character specific stuff is added, the general list could be released?

 

[SCOTU]

Ok, i'll finalize the general list by tomorrow night (i've got a tourney tomorrow, but afterwards i'll have it done for sure) and we can release it and make this more active again.

 

[SCOTU]

ok, i finalized the list. How are we gonna go about making this public? I'd like to keep this thread here for SL discussion for continuation. Should I just C/P the OP into brawl tactical or general brawl or something?

 

[Mic_128]

Just copy-paste and make a new thread in one of those rooms.