Stage Discussion

[JaidynReiman]

Oh god, yes! I loved Flatzone 1 back in melee!
No annoying stage-shifting, the hazards in faltzone 1 are bearable and the whole design was just nice in my opinion.

So, now that we get 2 G&W stages, how will the stage-select screen be organized? does the new G&W stage open up new possibilities without screwing up stage orders/line-ups?

As I posted above, Flat Zone blatantly messes up the alignment. There either needs to be an entirely new row, or the roster must expand out into a seventh column at certain points.

Or maybe the stage is actually called Flat Zone 3, and it's a combination of both Flat Zone and Flat Zone 2. We never actually saw the name of the stage, did we? If you look carefully, you can see the blue border from Flat Zone 2.

Its possible, I suppose.

 

[RamOne]

That's interesting. If that's the case, it messes up with the roster:

So, either the roster WON'T be clean at the end, or there's several more stages we don't know about and the list will expand to 7 columns.

I thought the Miiverse stage wasn't done until some time after release?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

but dat pixelated reflection...

Nothing that 60fps 1080p can't fix....

Either flatzone 2 got more transformations, or flatzone 1 was just confirmed.

I personally think that Flat Zone 2 could get some new transformations (including Flat Zone's Helmet) and maybe a new name, since it technically wouldn't be FZ2 anymore (due to adding more transformations)..... It would be seriously interesting to see that "Flat Zone Collection" (I just came up with that) theory a little further than just Melee's Flat Zone though......

 

[Piford]

Or maybe the stage is actually called Flat Zone 3, and it's a combination of both Flat Zone and Flat Zone 2. We never actually saw the name of the stage, did we? If you look carefully, you can see the blue border from Flat Zone 2.

We have seen footage of it make a full transition (go through all forms). It never showed up. Since they said they couldn't port stuff from melee into the game, they likely remade the stage and just used flatzone 2s border.

 

[G-Guy]

I thought the Miiverse stage wasn't done until some time after release?

actually, looking at that pic, i find the gap between the "random" and the "normal" button to be rather suspicious. Maybe they'll work a "DLC" inbetween these two? the size would fit.

Oh and as someone else already mentioned, what if Smash Wii U actually has a combined Flatzone stage? I think it's a rather possible explanation, although personally i'd rather have 1+2 seperated

 

[JaidynReiman]

I thought the Miiverse stage wasn't done until some time after release?

That's something... Vaanrose made, was it? Either way, that was only speculation, and in the original post I grabbed it from it was confirmed that was false. "Miiverse" is another blank spot. The positions of everything else was stated, though.

Nothing that 60fps 1080p can't fix....


I personnaly think that Flat Zone 2 could get some new transformations (including Flat Zone's Helmet) and maybe a new name, since it technically wouldn't be FZ2 anymore (due to adding more transformations)..... It would be seriously interesting to see that "Flat Zone Collection" (I just came up with that) theory a little further than just Melee's Flat Zone though......

Here's the problem with thinking it might be a Flat Zone 3 or something. It was specifically stated by leakers that Flat Zone 2 was confirmed to return. Not Flat Zone 3, not Flat Zone, or a different Flat Zone name. Flat Zone 2. I think it actually is the case that we have both Flat Zone and Flat Zone 2.

We have seen footage of it make a full transition (go through all forms). It never showed up. Since they said they couldn't port stuff from melee into the game, they likely remade the stage and just used flatzone 2s border.

This is very likely the case.

actually, looking at that pic, i find the gap between the "random" and the "normal" button to be rather suspicious. Maybe they'll work a "DLC" inbetween these two? the size would fit.

Oh and as someone else already mentioned, what if Smash Wii U actually has a combined Flatzone stage? I think it's a rather possible explanation, although personally i'd rather have 1+2 seperated

I considered it briefly, but we have leaks that specifically stated it was Flat Zone 2. So no, I don't think that's the case at all. We simply have Flat Zone 1+2 as separate stages.


EDIT: As for the "Random" comment, I never noticed that before, but that sounds about right. However, it'll probably be a new tab added either between "Normal" and "Custom", or after "Custom" and they just expand the set of tabs closer to Random.

 

[Meelow]

Saw some other people speculate, the border is Flat Zone 2 but shows Flat Zone 1 house, maybe it's actually Flat Zone 3?

 

[LordVacation]

.... Flatzone 1 is coming back too?

No, nooo no no no, I refuse to believe it.

 

[G-Guy]

Saw some other people speculate, the border is Flat Zone 2 but shows Flat Zone 1 house, maybe it's actually Flat Zone 3?

apparently not, as many have stated already that leakers confirmed flatzone 2 as just that. So it looks like we got the other old flatzone back a s a bonus

 

[JaidynReiman]

Saw some other people speculate, the border is Flat Zone 2 but shows Flat Zone 1 house, maybe it's actually Flat Zone 3?

Flat Zone 2 is back as its own stage. Flat Zone 3 is possible I suppose, but I doubt it. If anything they probably had to recreate Flat Zone from scratch and used assets from Flat Zone 2.

 

[Meelow]

Flat Zone 2 is back as its own stage. Flat Zone 3 is possible I suppose, but I doubt it. If anything they probably had to recreate Flat Zone from scratch and used assets from Flat Zone 2.

That's possible.

 

[Naoshi]

The border of Flat Zone 1 was also black, but it also had a red border around it. It's possible we're just seeing the black one with the red one cropped out of the pic.

Flat Zone 2's for comparison, has a blue border instead of red, but we don't see any colored borders in the pic.

EDIT: Wait, wow, nvm, I see the blue border now. Wtf? It was too dark to notice.


I hope it's just a slight color change for the border :/ I want Flat Zone 1 to be separate from 2.

 

[Meelow]

What would of been cool is if they fused both Flat Zone 1 and Flat Zone 2 together and named it Flat Zone Remix.

 

[JaidynReiman]

What would of been cool is if they fused both Flat Zone 1 and Flat Zone 2 together and named it Flat Zone Remix.

That goes against the fact that we've been told, specifically, Flat Zone 2 is back. Flat Zone is a separate stage from Flat Zone 2.

 

[Meelow]

That goes against the fact that we've been told, specifically, Flat Zone 2 is back. Flat Zone is a separate stage from Flat Zone 2.

I know, but I'm just saying it would of been cool if they did that instead.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What would of been cool is if they fused both Flat Zone 1 and Flat Zone 2 together and named it Flat Zone Remix.

Great idea, but it'd be even cooler if there are also some new levels for that concept too....

Personally, I think "Flat Zone Collection" has a nicer ring to it.....

 

[Naoshi]

I actually prefer both stages to be seperate. I didn't like Flat Zone 2 much because of the lion cage segment. I'd like to be able to enjoy Flat Zone 1 alone.

 

[König Nickerchen]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Its Flat Zone 1. All my dreams of Fountain of Dreams and Pirate Ship have just perish ((.

 

[RamOne]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Its Flat Zone 1. All my dreams of Fountain of Dreams and Pirate Ship have just perish ((.

Why? I think Fountain of Dreams actually has more chance to return now, now returning Melee stages that weren't in Brawl are confirmed.

 

[JaidynReiman]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Its Flat Zone 1. All my dreams of Fountain of Dreams and Pirate Ship have just perish ((.

Here's the thing. The whole argument we were making earlier about stages revolved around assuming there were only two stages left, and that the stages would need to line up properly. Flat Zone 1 opens up a whole new ball game:

Option 1.) Stages do not need to look "clean" (e.g. stages from one franchises do not need to be on the same row), so any stage could be the final stage.

Option 2.) More likely than Option 1, there are more stages than we expected. DK is still extremely likely to get another stage, but in this case, so is Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon.

 

[GmanSir]

Yes! We have 2 stages from G&W. About the stage list, it doesn't have to fit perfectly aligned. In Melee and Brawl, there was no perfect rectangle. In the 3DS version, Not all Mario stages were in the same line either, so I think there is no rule here too.

 

[Naoshi]

What I find weird is... why does Flat Zone 1 have a blue border? I mean, I understand porting levels from Melee straight to SSB4 would be near impossible due to the format changes, but what's going to stop them from porting textures since they're just image files? They could just recolor the border red.

But then again, it was probably just a simple retexture. A lot of the returning stages got re-textured, so this might be just what we're witnessing for Flat Zone 1's case.

I guess we'll wait and see what's exactly going on...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yes! We have 2 stages from G&W. About the stage list, it doesn't have to fit perfectly aligned. In Melee and Brawl, there was no perfect rectangle. In the 3DS version, Not all Mario stages were in the same line either, so I think there is no rule here too.

All the Mario stages follow a set pattern, though, and Mario scrolls to the second line because it just has that many stages. Mario is the ONLY franchise to do so, though.


Every game has always had all stages from the same franchise right next to each other. It'll probably be the same here. No, it probably won't be a perfect square/rectangle. However, there are likely more stages to fill in the roster now, I'm currently expecting another DK, Zelda, Pokemon, and maybe Kirby stage. Another Mario stage is somewhat possible, too.

What I find weird is... why does Flat Zone 1 have a blue border? I mean, I understand porting levels from Melee straight to SSB4 would be near impossible due to the format changes, but what's going to stop them from porting textures since they're just image files? They could just recolor the border red.

I guess we'll wait and see what's exactly going on...

I still don't see the problem. Maybe they just wanted it to have a blue border?

 

[Naoshi]

I still don't see the problem. Maybe they just wanted it to have a blue border?

Yeah I've just noted that in my edit.

Although the handhelds in Flat Zones are based off their real appearances, Flat Zone 1's based off of Helmet which has a red border.

but hmmm

 

[Vintage Creep]

Wow the roster selection in Sm4sh (both 3DS and WiiU) is really damn weird.
It seems we're going to have A LOT of stages anyway... Maybe more than I thought.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Flat Zone 1 is back!!! That's... really, really redundant, but I'll take it!

Speaking of, arguments about the stage select screen layout should be taken with a grain of salt. The character select screen on the wiiu version when everyone is unlocked isn't even. It's actually hideous and I hate it because it isn't even. If that isn't even, the Stage select screen wont be even either!

 

[Naoshi]

Wow the roster selection in Sm4sh (both 3DS and WiiU) is really damn weird.
It seems we're going to have A LOT of stages anyway... Maybe more than I thought.

And with DLC stages being a possibility (with evidence from the datamining on 3DS), it's only gonna get bigger!

 

[Weldar]

Either flatzone 2 got more transformations, or flatzone 1 was just confirmed.

Its not directly related the stage discussion but, what's going in in the icon the the left of Flat Zone 1 there. The thing in red with a hammer almost looks like an Ice Climber from a distance, obviously it isn't the and the rest of that event seems to be Game and Watch themed too but what's going on there.

 

[nuclearneo577]

If Flat Zone 1 is coming back as a retro stage and isn't part of a new stage that looks like Flat Zone 2, I have a feeling that it might be the only Melee stage that wasn't in Brawl to come back, mainly because it had to have been much easier to make it without a Brawl version to work off of because the stage is 2D. I hope that I'm wrong, but it seems like Flat Zone 1 would be much easier to remake to pad out the stage selection then say Peach's Castle or Fourside.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Here's the thing. The whole argument we were making earlier about stages revolved around assuming there were only two stages left, and that the stages would need to line up properly. Flat Zone 1 opens up a whole new ball game:

Option 1.) Stages do not need to look "clean" (e.g. stages from one franchises do not need to be on the same row), so any stage could be the final stage.

Option 2.) More likely than Option 1, there are more stages than we expected. DK is still extremely likely to get another stage, but in this case, so is Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon.

You forgot option #3: DLC

 

[Starbound]

The blue border is likely due to event mode. It's a color used to signify that you haven't done the event yet.

 

[Das Koopa]

That goes against the fact that we've been told, specifically, Flat Zone 2 is back. Flat Zone is a separate stage from Flat Zone 2.

What leakers specifically called the stage Flat Zone 2?

We've have video of it and it's no different than the regular flatzone for at least the Fire and Lion segments, but I'm curious about this "Leak".

 

[Naoshi]

You forgot option #3: DLC

He's talking about the initial roster, DLC has nothing to do with it.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

He's talking about the initial roster, DLC has nothing to do with it.

So we finally know all the stages for the WiiU version?

 

[Naoshi]

So we finally know all the stages for the WiiU version?

Honestly, before I would've said yes. But Flat Zone 1 made me thought otherwise.

 

[LordVacation]

So right now, we either have 46 or 47 stages depending on Flatzone 1/2 or a combination of both.

Just on a sheer number alone.. I can't visualize that being it...

27 new, 20 old.
I say/hope we have atleast 3 new stages.. that's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

I'll never say the stage roster sucks in this game but.. I'm definitely not as stoked as I thought I'd be.

 

[Weldar]

You have to remember, there's also the 3ds stage list. That wasn't a huge stage roster in and of itself but they were still working on both at the same time, the jump up in stages for just Smash Wiiu compared to Brawl was always going to be smaller than the jumps between previous installments thank to that. Currently with just Smash U we are at more stages than Brawl but less new stages added (Brawl was 41 total split 31-10) but if you add the 3ds stages its way ahead of Brawl.
So yeah I would say the numbers we have now do actually make sense, before Flat Zone 1 willing to assume we had the whole list, now there is room for more secrets but I'm still not expecting too much more. This is a perfectly plausible final list, if there are more stages awesome.

 

[LordVacation]

You have to remember, there's also the 3ds stage list. That wasn't a huge stage roster in and of itself but they were still working on both at the same time, the jump up in stages for just Smash Wiiu compared to Brawl was always going to be smaller than the jumps between previous installments thank to that. Currently with just Smash U we are at more stages than Brawl but less new stages added (Brawl was 41 total split 31-10) but if you add the 3ds stages its way ahead of Brawl.
So yeah I would say the numbers we have now do actually make sense, before Flat Zone 1 willing to assume we had the whole list, now there is room for more secrets but I'm still not expecting too much more. This is a perfectly plausible final list, if there are more stages awesome.

Perfectly plausible... for you, maybe.

For me, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[Weldar]

Smash 3ds has 20 new stages not in Smash wiiu and 7 old not there.
If the numbers were 74 stages; 47 new , 27 old that would be a huge stage roster.
Now in reality I don't actually think its quite fair to just combine both game's numbers together but I also don't think you can really forget about them entirely, Sakurai was working on both versions of the game in the same timeframe so the 3ds is going to have some impact (on a side note, I know they're not going to but I really would love to see all the 3ds stages ported to wiiu, even without graphical upgrades. Never gonna happen but I'd buy that if it was a dlc pack)
Now I can totally understand thinking there is gonna be more, everyone's different and I'll admit I tend to keep my hopes low. But there is at least a reasonable explanation for if this were to be the full list.

 

[LordVacation]

You can't really call it a full list but break it up into two games.
Yes, they are both Smash Bros 4, but that shouldn't matter.

I respect Sakurai for working on both games, obviously.
But the Wii U has taken shot after shot after shot because of the 3ds.. it sucks, dude.

I was like 13 when Brawl came out.. I'll likely be 30 when the next game is even thought of; I'd have liked a bigger roster than 20 returning stages and only like.. what? 12 more stages all together then a game that is over half a decade old...

As juvenile as I might sound, I don't really care anymore...
I wanted this game to be the do all and end all of Smash.. and they got like 75% way there.

Hell even if they tossed the Wii U the Ice Climbers as just a "yeah, we know we ****ed up" type bonus, I'd be much more content.