Stage Discussion : #5 Delphino Plaza

[Blad01]

#5 : Delphino Plaza​

• Pros :
  +
  +
  
  
• Cons :
  -
  -
  
• Supplementary information :
  *
  *
  
  
• Better against :
  
  
• Better and Worse :
  
  
• Worst against :
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :

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#4 : Yoshi's Island​

• Pros :
  + Platform game is pretty good.
  + Small stage, good for close combat and side kills (well, it seems)
  + You can walltech spikes, especially Falco's chaingrab to spike, which is not equal to death anymore.
  
  
• Cons :
  - Autocancelling a Dair / Uair is pretty impossible, witth exception of the center of the stage. This thing alone destroys pretty much half of Ganon's game.
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Walltechs are possible.
  * You can DTilt down the slanted ledge and connect with ledge grabbers.
  
  
• Better against : Falco perhaps.
  
  
• Better and Worse : --
  
  
• Worst against : --
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) : Bad.
  

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#3 : Smashville​

• Pros :
  + Small stage, ideal for close quarter combat.
  + No ledge to screw the recovey (although FD's ledges souldn't screw a good Ganon)
  + Moving platform give some (little) defense against projectiles / chaingrab
  + Moving platform can help to recover
  + You can use USmash, Uair throught platform.
  
  
• Cons :
  - The moving platform give also options for recoverinf for opponents
  - Chaingrabs are a pain, and since the stage is small, lead to an edguarding situation (for the opponent)
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * No SH Dair trhough platform...
  * Slam Choke can be done on the platform.
  
  
• Better against : Characters that benefit more from Battlefield than you do, characters with average projectile (Samus, Wolf etc).
  
  
  
• Better and Worse : Falco. Still the same awful match-up, on a smaller stage that help chaingrab but doesn't help campy game that much).
  
  
• Worst against : Snake, DDD.
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) : Good.
  

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#2 : Final Destination​

• Pros :
  + No place to hide for your opponent
  + Full Jumps / Double Jump are not limited
  + Easier to juggle your opponents, that have limited options in the airs
  + Hard to be KO'd
  
  
• Cons :
  - The stage doesn't favor close combat
  - Spamming/Camping heaven
  - A lot of characters are better than Ganon here
  - No place to hide from your opponent
  - (A little) Hard to KO
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Wizikick cancel is easy to do, since the marks on the ground help
  
  
• Good against : Characters who haven't any (long-range) projectiles, and who could combo you better in BF by example. Wario, Metaknight [...]
  
  
• Better and Worse : G&W, Sheik, Zelda, Jigglypuff [...]
  
  
• Worst against : Any character that uses projectiles, needs a lot of space, or can chaingrab you. Falco, Samus, DDD, R.O.B., Olimar, Diddy Kong... And also the small characters like Kirby, harder to touch.
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) : Average / Bad
  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#1 : Battlefield​

• Pros :
  + Platforms make people easier to hit with Uair, Bair, Fair, (and even Dair !), USmash.
  + Up B is a good Out of Shield option, since you can recover from the lag quickly, thanks to the top platform.
  + Since this stage is small, and due to the platforms, projectiles games / camp are easier to deal with.
  + Techchase on platforms are easier. That could benefit to Gerudo follows-up.
  + Overall, attacks are easier to land than on a flat / big stage like FD. (Aerials, Wizkicks, Gerudo).
  
  
• Cons :
  - Some characters are benefit more of BF than Ganondorf does.
  - Ganon has a hard time when he's on a platform, and his opponent under him
  - Full Jump and Double Jump have less importance, and are only possible in the middle of the stage. (FJ Nair or FJ Dair are by example stopped by the side platforms, and don't autocancel).
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Wizkick from a platform to the other
  * You can hit with your Up B trough the ledge.
  * SH Dair can hit a character standing on a platform above you.
  
  
• Better against : Samus, Falco, Toon Link, Link, Ness, Lucas, ROB.
  Snake too, but it's still in discussion, since he can also abuse BF with his C4, UTilt...
  
  Any character that doesn't benefit as much from upward hitting as much as Ganondorf, and whose projectile is easier to avoid.
  
  
• Better and Worse : Zero Suit Samus (good for the beginning of the match, but you get comboed AND outcamped)), G&W (good against his key, bad against his Nair...); King DDD (good against his chaingrab in a way, his waddle dees, his aerials. But still bad against his UTilt, Bair, FTilt...).
  
  
• Worst against : Metaknight, Marth, Sheik, Wario, Capt Falcon (yes ).
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) : Good.
  

(the words "Better" / "Worst" refer mostly to FD, since it is the most neutral stage)

 

[Blad01]

In my opinion :

• Pros :
  * Platforms game is awesome with Ganon : Uair, Bair, Fair, USmash.
  * Up B is a good Out of Shield option, since you can recover from the lag quickly, thanks to the platforms.
  * Good against projectiles.
  
  
• Cons :
  * Ganon has a hard time when he's on a platform, and his opponent under him.
  * FJ and DJ have less importance, and are only possible in the middle of the stage.
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * You can hit with your Up B trough the ledge.
  * Wizkick from a platform to the other.
  
  
• Good against : Samus, Falco, Snake, Toon Link, Link
  
  
• Even battle with : Zero Suit Samus (but good for the beginning of the match), G&W (good against his key, bad against his Nair...); King DDD.
  
  
• Characters you don't want to fight here : Metaknight, Marth, Sheik, Wario.
  
  
  

 

[:034:]

• Pros :
  * Platforms make people easy to hit.
  * Up-B OoS is a bit better.
  * Platforms help in getting vertical KO's.
  
• Cons :
  * A lot of people are good on this stage, better than Ganondorf.
  * Some opponents can camp more easily (ie: Pikachu).
  * Ganondorf is in trouble when on a platform most of the time.
  
• Supplementary information :
  The platforms make it easier to edgeguard people coming from higher up. The ledge is easier to recover to than most, and the Dark Uppercut can be done through the edge, with you still surviving.
  
• Good against :
  
  Any character that doesn't benefit as much from upward hitting as much as Ganondorf, and whose projectile is easier to avoid. Examples are Samus and the two Links.
  
  
• Even battle with :
  
  The thing with Battlefield is - it benefits almost everyone in a way. So I wouldn't really speak of an even battle on here (besides a Ganon ditto, of course).
  
  
• Characters you don't want to fight here :
  
  Any chaingrabbing to edgeguarding character. The somewhat smaller stage gets you off the ledge easily, which is deadly against Falco or a good D3. Any character with powerful upward killers or tons of disjointed hitboxes hurt you here as well. D3, Snake, Marth, Ike and Wario come to mind.
  
  Snake can also be deadly here - with his C4 and mines he can easily take control of the platform, which once again makes his camping deadly. Also, utilt through a platform = an easier kill.
  

Battlefield is a stage that can hurt or help you depending on the opponent, the opponent's character and the opponent's playstyle. I'd much rather pick Battlefield over Final Destination or Smashville, though.

 

[Ace55]

I really wouldn't put Snake as a good matchup here. His explosives and uptilt own the place. For instance Wario does great on BF against most characters (Ganon included) but against Snake FD is seen as better, because Snake is just too good on BF. If Wario has trouble getting past Snake's stage control here, I can't see Ganon doing any better (actually I'm pretty sure he does far worse).

And what precisely is Ganon gonna do against Dedede? Camping the platforms isn't gonna get you anywhere and on the main platform you're gonna get chaingrabbed and edgeguarded.

 

[Blad01]

I really wouldn't put Snake as a good matchup here. His explosives and uptilt own the place. For instance Wario does great on BF against most characters (Ganon included) but against Snake FD is seen as better, because Snake is just too good on BF.

I think that BF is a better stage against Snake than FD, because you can combo him better, and limit the use of grenades and Nikita. It's also a little bit easier to gimp him.

On FD, Ganon is too slow... Grenades, Nikita, Mortar Slide etc hurt him a lot.

And what precisely is Ganon gonna do against Dedede? Camping the platforms isn't gonna get you anywhere and on the main platform you're gonna get chaingrabbed and edgeguarded.

Not camping on the platform, but :

• Less Chaingrab
• Less Waddle Dee spam
• More combos
• More Gerudo, grabs.
• More wizkick
• Less aerial game from DDD.

But his Utilt, Ftilt, DSmash are still a pain.

 

[LinkSceptile333]

Addon: Also a good stage against Ness and Lucas. You can do this combo under one of the two lower platforms.

Dair(Lagless) --> Murder Choke(Grounded) --> Usmash

 

[Ace55]

I think that BF is a better stage against Snake than FD, because you can combo him better, and limit the use of grenades and Nikita. It's also a little bit easier to gimp him.

On FD, Ganon is too slow... Grenades, Nikita, Mortar Slide etc hurt him a lot.

Although your right Ganon probably doesn't really do any better against Snake on FD, I still think your underestimating Snake's potential to abuse BF. I'll just quote about what was said about Snake on BF in our stage thread:

Play AllyorNotAlly on Battlefield and then on FD. If you play battlefield, he can put his dsmash or down b on the above platforms, you can jump into them, fall into them, or he can THROW you into them because the initial trajectory after his throws is always the same. The snake player can throw grenades and stop them on the above platforms so that they explode above and still hit you. If you try to do anything against them, he can snakedash you or pretty much anything else. All snake has to do, is...

1. Snakedash to other side of stage.
2. Lay proximity mine on top of short platform
3. Lay downb in front of him
4. Keep throwing grenades and b side's until you try to approach
5. Grab you or tilt you into the mine above, jump up and try to uair you
6. You try to get away
7. Repeat.

Snake also has an advantage on smashville because of his ability to plant a prox mine on top of the platform that moves across the stage. He can camp up there or any number of things.

Fiction might view the Snake matchup as harder then other Wario mains, but keep in mind he was talking about Wario in this situation. Who is both more capable of stopping Snake from camping like this and to counter this strategy.

Not camping on the platform, but :

• Less Chaingrab
• Less Waddle Dee spam
• More combos
• More Gerudo, grabs.
• More wizkick
• Less aerial game from DDD.

But his Utilt, Ftilt, DSmash are still a pain.

Probably only slightly less chaingrabs because both of you won't really enjoy hanging out on the platforms. Something that might work in Ganon's favor though is Dedede using his uptilt before kill percentages, thus allowing you to live slightly longer (if you don't get gimped in the first place). I don't think platforms are really gonna hurt Dedede airgame that much. I honestly don't see how wizkick is so much better (or gonna win you the game anyways) on FD. I guess you can catch Dedede on the platform with gerudo if he shields, but how is Ganon gonna get more grabs on BF? Less Waddle spam and more combos are nice I guess.

 

[Blad01]

Well, you keep forgetting something : BF is smaller than DF.

THUS :

- Snake / DDD can't camp as much as on FD.
- Ganondorf can combo more (since he's at close-combat)
- Less room for chaingrab.
- More room for grabs, gerudo, wizkick.

 

[DRaGZ]

• Pros :
  * Platforms make people easy to hit.
  * Up-B OoS is a bit better.
  * Platforms help in getting vertical KO's.
  
• Cons :
  * A lot of people are good on this stage, better than Ganondorf.
  * Some opponents can camp more easily (ie: Pikachu).
  * Ganondorf is in trouble when on a platform most of the time.
  
• Supplementary information :
  The platforms make it easier to edgeguard people coming from higher up. The ledge is easier to recover to than most, and the Dark Uppercut can be done through the edge, with you still surviving.
  
• Good against :
  
  Any character that doesn't benefit as much from upward hitting as much as Ganondorf, and whose projectile is easier to avoid. Examples are Samus and the two Links.
  
  
• Even battle with :
  
  The thing with Battlefield is - it benefits almost everyone in a way. So I wouldn't really speak of an even battle on here (besides a Ganon ditto, of course).
  
  
• Characters you don't want to fight here :
  
  Any chaingrabbing to edgeguarding character. The somewhat smaller stage gets you off the ledge easily, which is deadly against Falco or a good D3. Any character with powerful upward killers or tons of disjointed hitboxes hurt you here as well. D3, Snake, Marth, Ike and Wario come to mind.
  
  Snake can also be deadly here - with his C4 and mines he can easily take control of the platform, which once again makes his camping deadly. Also, utilt through a platform = an easier kill.
  

Battlefield is a stage that can hurt or help you depending on the opponent, the opponent's character and the opponent's playstyle. I'd much rather pick Battlefield over Final Destination or Smashville, though.

R.O.B. is actually somewhat hindered on Battlefield. Platforms makes gyro projectiling slightly more risky and makes a high recovery with his Up+B extremely risky since he won't be able to fight it as well.

I think Ganondorf, in general, finds Battlefield awesome. It's small enough, so he can keep pressure on opponent's up close, has platforms which give him plenty of options to punish people (which he does best), and if completely fast so thunderstorming is a breeze.

 

[Blad01]

First post edited, let me know what you think. ^^

Otherwise, i'm gonna start the #2nd stage discussion.

 

[Blad01]

First Post Edited With #2 Stage Discussion : Final Destination​

 

[hyperstation]

LOL at the ssbm final dest pic.

 

[Swoops]

Blad, I'm gunna link to this thread in my guide. Do you mind? ...no of course not >.>

I'll actually have input later

 

[Blad01]

LOL at the ssbm final dest pic.

What are you talking about ? ôO

Do you mind? ...no of course not >.>

Well, i would like to have the choice...
YES !
>_>

Lol, of course not.

I'll actually have input later

Ok, i'm waiting for that I don't want to be the first to give my opinion (otherwise i would pretty much say everything we have to say ahah... ;p).

 

[SaltyKracka]

I say to stay the hell away from this stage. It's an okay stage for Ganondorf, with the exception of it's gay ledges, but everybody else has a much better time here against you.

I repeat: STAY. THE HELL. AWAY!!

 

[Blad01]

• Pros :
  + No place to hide for your opponent
  + Full Jumps / Double Jump are not limited
  + Easier to juggle your opponents, that have limited options in the airs
  
  
• Cons :
  - The stage is too big for Ganon, who needs to be at close-combat
  - A lot of characters are better than Ganon here
  - A projectile game owns you badly here
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Wizikick cancel is easy to do, since the marks on the ground help.
  
  
  
• Good against : Characters who haven't any (long-range) projectiles, and who could combo you better in BF by example. Wario, Metaknight,
  
  
• Good and Bad : G&W, Sheik, Zelda, Jigglypuff
  
  
• Bad against : Falco, Samus, DDD... The short characters are also hard to touch : Kirby, Olimar (and he has more on-stage room), Squirtle...
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) : Average
  

 

[:034:]

• Pros :
  + No place to hide for your opponent.
  + Hard to be KO'd: high ceiling and wide KO boundaries.
  
  
• Cons :
  - The stage doesn't favor close quarter combat, despite it's looks.
  - A lot of characters are better than Ganon here.
  - Final Destination = spamming/camping heaven.
  - No place to hide from your opponent.
  - The ledges can screw you over.
  - Harder to KO: high ceiling and wide KO boundaries.
  
  
• Supplementary information :
  * The marks on the ground help with any type of range deduction.
  
  
• Good against : Any character that can be screwed over with the ledges more than you and that don't have a projectile. A lot of people can get caught under the ledge, but it just doesn't happen as often.
  
  
• Good and Bad : Any character that HAS to fight you up-close.
  
  
• Bad against : Any character that uses projectiles, needs a lot of space, can edgeguard you heavily or can chaingrab you. Falco, D3, R.O.B., Olimar, Diddy Kong and a lot more.
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad) : Bad
  

Final Destination is a Flying Dutchman counterpick, I really hate this stage. The vertical KO boundaries make it the worst neutral stage for me. The only time I pick is this is with Wolf, and that's only when people don't want to play on Smashville...

 

[SaltyKracka]

Final Destination is a Flying Dutchman counterpick, I really hate this stage. The vertical KO boundaries make it the worst neutral stage for me. The only time I pick is this is with Wolf, and that's only when people don't want to play on Smashville...

Like I said, avoid this stage if at all possible. Even Lylat Cruise is a better neutral stage for Ganon.

 

[Swoops]

Like I said, avoid this stage if at all possible. Even Lylat Cruise is a better neutral stage for Ganon.

Say wat -_^? Lylat is horrible for Ganondorf. FD isn't amazing for Ganondorf, but it's hardly bad. Good flat terrain, great for horizontal chasing which is one of Ganny's strengths. Edges can mess you up if you don't know your recovery, but tipmans and b-airing them right into the stage helps out your edgeguarding a lot. Plus, the edges are worse on lylat.

FD is average, not horrible.

 

[:034:]

Lylat is on a completely different league of 'bad' than Final Destination.

Final = bad.

Lylat = MY GOD I CAN NOT GRAB THIS LEDGE EVER

WHY AM I NOT AUTOCANCELLING

FFFFFFFFF I HATE THIS STAGE

 

[SaltyKracka]

Say wat -_^? Lylat is horrible for Ganondorf. FD isn't amazing for Ganondorf, but it's hardly bad. Good flat terrain, great for horizontal chasing which is one of Ganny's strengths. Edges can mess you up if you don't know your recovery, but tipmans and b-airing them right into the stage helps out your edgeguarding a lot. Plus, the edges are worse on lylat.

FD is average, not horrible.

I say Lylat is better not because of the edges, but because the major thing that is going to happen to Ganondorf on FD is getting camped the hell out of. And he just can't deal with that all that well, as we very well know. As well, Lylat is a better counterpick against the spacies and Zelda, just to name a few. The only characters whom you will ever, EVER, even tolerate facing here would be perhaps Ike, ZSS, and maybe Sonic. You don't want to come here against anybody that can camp at all well; even Link, with his horrible recovery, is better off here than you are.

 

[Blad01]

Well maybe should i add a "Very Bad" section

 

[Swoops]

I say Lylat is better not because of the edges, but because the major thing that is going to happen to Ganondorf on FD is getting camped the hell out of. And he just can't deal with that all that well, as we very well know. As well, Lylat is a better counterpick against the spacies and Zelda, just to name a few. The only characters whom you will ever, EVER, even tolerate facing here would be perhaps Ike, ZSS, and maybe Sonic. You don't want to come here against anybody that can camp at all well; even Link, with his horrible recovery, is better off here than you are.

Ganon can get camped the hell out of anywhere, unless there are walls or it is pretty small. Platforms don't help as much as you might think just because of Ganon's not-very-quick jumps and he's a big target that actually has trouble coming down onto somebody. I confess that FD is going to be more difficult than other stages, but it helps if you throw out an autocancel, and the stage doesn't rise for no f*cking reason. And like I said the edges are worse.

 

[Blad01]

First post edited

 

[Blad01]

First Post Edited With #3 Stage Discussion : Smashville​

 

[deadpoe7]

Okay, assuming the discussion is now about Smashville:

I absolutely love this stage. I consider it to be more "Final Destination" than the actual Final Destination in Brawl, solely because of the edges (no lip FTW!).

Pros:

• Not very long, so G-dorf can get in close range fairly easy.
• The traveling platform provides some defense against projectiles and, more importantly, can help your off stage aerial game.
• Don't have to worry about dark diving up into an atrocious lip and losing a stock in an embarrassing manner.
• Up-smash reaches through traveling platform.
• Almost forgot! That uber-situational, awe-inspiring, mega-sexay Flame Choke cancel on the traveling platform...Can't stress the sexay-ness enough, seriously!

Cons:

• Traveling platform becomes Trojan Horse of Death if Snake lays some c4 on it.
• Hmm...can't really think of anything else, but there are probably other disadvantages related to the traveling platform.

Now, I'm not good at all when it comes to match ups, but I'll give it a whack. Here goes.

Good against:

• Peeps without projectiles or with primarily close-range game.
• Peeps with tether recoveries (assuming you can get Capt. Gaylimar off stage).
• Your mom.

Bad against:

• Snake...Smashville lends itself to Snake's stage-control game quite nicely.
• I got nothing...

Overall Stage Ranking: 5 out of 5 Spartans, but I'm biased by my blind love of this stage.

Also, the wiz-kick-towards-the-center-of-the-stage-from-the-edge-glitch covers almost the entire stage if you go into a flame choke from it. (Have we named this glitch yet? How about "Phantom Wizard?" Maybe shorten it to "Ghost Wiz?")

And, as a side note: Sometimes, when I'm just messing around, I get on the inside edge of the traveling platform when it's returning to the stage and utilt so I'm a floating-axe-kick-bomb...doesn't work most of the time, but I like it.

 

[Serph]

Not to disrupt the flow of the thread or anything, but what's this Wizard Kick glitch all about? And the "Flame Choke cancel"?

 

[deadpoe7]

Not to disrupt the flow of the thread or anything, but what's this Wizard Kick glitch all about? And the "Flame Choke cancel"?

No problem. The Wizard Kick glitch (for which I am submitting the name "Ghost Wiz" from this point onward) happens when you roll to the edge of certain stages (so that you are right on top of the edge) and do G-dorf's down-B. At the end of the wiz kick animation you will go into an aerial roll as if you had wiz kicked off of the stage, instead of going into the laggy ending animation. What this does is give you enough time to either (A) execute and aerial flame choke or (B) execute an aerial wizard kick (which just gives you a Murder Quake).

Here is a list of stages this tech works on:

Originally Posted by hyperstation View Post
A little more specific information on the mid stage wizard kick cancel (anyone got a better name?):

First, as I suspected, double jumps are a no no. too bad.

Now, a stage list. I only tested stages that are in some way part of tournament play.

Stages on which all ledges cancel the wizard kick

1. Final Destination
2. Battle Field
3. Frigate Orpheon
4. Smashville


Stages on which some ledges cancel the wizard kick

1. Luigi's Mansion - Level 1 and Level 2 always work. Level 3 is picky (***)
2. Pirate Ship - Right side of the ship ONLY
3. Pokemon Stadium 2 - ONLY the stadium works. No elemental stages.
4. Castle Siege - Right side of first stage of Castle Siege ONLY
5. Corneria - Off the top of the wing ONLY
6. Delfino - Left side of the platform with umbrellas on it during the part of Delfino that has the river/canal going through it ONLY. Main floating stage is picky (***)


Stages on which no ledges cancel the wizard kick

1. Halberd
2. Yoshi's Island
3. Lylat Cruise
4. Pictochat


Two competition stages aren't listed. Norfair is missing because no platform on that level is wide enough for this move to even be possible. Pokemon Stadium 1 is missing cause my data died a month or so ago and I haven't unlocked it. PS1 is broken anyway...glitchy ledges. If someone wants to get the data for PS1, that would be great, otherwise, who cares.

(***) - stages marked with this means that there is some witchery going on with the ledge that makes it inconsistent from test to test. Both the main platform on Delfino and the third floor of Luigi's Mansion are possessed. I have a few theories as to why it works sometimes and other times doesn't, but nothing of merit so far. I should mention that one time on Delfino I SDed because I did the wizard kick cancel as the platform was rising...I fell through the floor and died. Until something more concrete is discovered to understand why the cancel works sometimes and why it doesn't others, I suggest not screwing with it on Delfino...

Now, the flame choke cancel that I mentioned is what happens when you do an aerial flamechoke on your opponent while both of you are on Smashville's traveling platform. If it works, your opponent will zoom down from the platform (to his death if the platform is off stage), while you stay on the platform. It doesn't always work, and I believe your opponent must be crouching. There could be a different criteria, I'm not sure. Anyways, if it works, you have bragging rights even if you lose the match.

 

[Serph]

Hmm, interesting. I just tried both. You can even do a quick jump and aerial (up and down work well) after the Wizard Kick.

I managed a Flame Choke kill from the platform, but I'm not sure if it was what you were talking about. I basically aerial choked them so that Ganondorf himself still lands on the platform, yet is close enough to the edge that they're thrown off it. I imagine this also works with a grounded Flame Choke (since they can't auto-grab the edge after being spiked), but they could dodge it, so it's risky. The computer also managed to survive this by jumping, but most people won't even be expecting it.

 

[:034:]

• Pros :
  + A small stage, ideal for close quarter combat.
  + No ledges that screw you over.
  + Moving platform helps recovery.
  + Moving platform gives you some defense against projectiles.
  
• Cons :
  - Moving platform gives your opponent the same options...
  - Chaingrabbing = pain. The small stage can mean instant death.
  - No dair through the platform.
  
• Supplementary information :
  * Wizkick cancel can be done.
  * Choke Slam can be done (Flame Choke Cancel according to Deadpoe, but you're not really cancelling anything...).
  * Best for Ganon ditto's, in my opinion.
  
  
• Better against :
  Characters that benefit more from Battlefield than you do.
  
  
• Better and Worse :
  Chaingrabbers... You can hide, but it's a smaller stage, so you're in some pain,
  
• Worst against :
  
  
• Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :
  

Finish later...

 

[deadpoe7]

To Serph and FD, ya'll are correct. I originally thought it was a Flame Choke cancel, but I tested it several times last night and it's simply a choke slam and it depends on being close enough to the edge so the opponent continues downward but you don't. In training, it didn't work against Pikachu, so I think the choke slam only works against characters whose size is large enough to be mainly situated off of the platform when you do it...It's still sexay, though.

I suppose that if I were to try this move, I would want to be facing towards the stage so if I overshot, I could possbily grab the ledge on the way down.

Oh yeah, and I forgot about the CG...on the upside, they can't do many of them unless they pivot grab, but on the downside, the whole purpose is to get you off stage to spike (falco, IC) or gimp (DDD).

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This should be a sticky, looks pretty useful to me.

 

[Blad01]

First Post Edited With #4 Stage Discussion : Yoshi's Island​

(And i added Smashville summary)

 

[Blad01]

So... Please contribute ? X)

 

[TP]

Yoshi was smart enough to install a lightning rod on his island, so thunderstorming is worthless.

 

[hyperstation]

Yoshi is by far the worst of the "neutral" stages IMO. Ganon can't buffer for sh*t on Yoshi's Island including thunderstorming. I usually ban this and stage-strike Lylat or Castle Siege at tournies. Lylat at least has a handful of platforms which are all within Ganon's punishing range, but on Yoshi's Island, even the platform is disadvantageous for him. I used to love this level for like the first few months of Brawl, but once I got to even a remotely advanced level of play, I started hating Yoshi's Island more and more. Don't get me started on those d*mn ghosties platforms and how much they serve to screw Ganon up. Gross level. The only positive thing I can think of is that you can DTilt down the slanted ledge and connect with ledge grabbers, but that's hardly anything to write home about...

 

[Blad01]

First Post Edited With #5 Stage Discussion : Deplphino Plaza​

I love this stage, i think this opens a lot of possibilites to the best Dorf I think we should test this stage in depth :D

 

[DRaGZ]

I like this level as Ganondorf. All sorts of neat stuff, including water spiking, unexpected Ganoncides through main platform, early kills next to the wall, etc.

The only problem I can see is that the walk-offs make it really dangerous for Ganondorf against some characters and recovery on the main platform can be tricky if you mess it up, but it's usually just fun times.

 

[:034:]

It's "Delfino", with an f instead of ph.

A person who knows what Ganondorf can do on DP will get really scared and ban this stage... Don't let people know you're playing Ganondorf and hope they'll ban Frigate or something.

Pros :
+ WATERFUCKINGSPIKES
+ The platforms are very safe! Because they are usually really high, your opponent will have a harder time safely getting up there to punish you. You can also safely drop down and dair.
+ The shifts will disturb momentum and switch the stage advantage from player to player. Ganondorf has a lot of advantages, because of the layout near the water.
+ The stage is usually very wide and with the water you'll have an easier time to recover. Just be sure not to fight against someone with a reliable spike.
+ You can pass through the stage. This might seem like a bad thing, since other players can come bursting through like a shark, but you can actually spike them back with a well-timed downB spike.

Cons :
- Fighting against D3 is troublesome because of the walk-off edges.
- A lot of characters can lock you against various of the walls.
- A player can be afraid of you picking this stage, and start camping more than usual.

Supplementary information :
* WATERSPIKES
* It's a really nice stage. It looks pretty.
* The edges are weird, so watch out with recovering with your Flame Choke. Sweetspot it with up+b instead.

Better against :
People with bad recoveries that are forced into the water.
Some (not all) campy characters.
Characters that have no spike.

Better and Worse :
Ike, at one point he has a crap recovery, so lots of waterspikes, but he also has a very reliable spike... It's dangerous but worth a shot.

Also, Diddy. Again, a bad recovery with easies spikes, but there's a lot of room for him to maneuver... But then again, the stage shifts, so his momentum can change as well.

Worst against :

King Dedede: Walk offs aren't nice.

Stage ranking (Very good / Good / Average / Bad / Awful) :


Very good, obviously one of Ganondorf's best stages, and not just because of the waterspikes. This stage often gives more advantages to Ganondorf than the opponent, and some opponent advantages can be turned into a disadvantage.

 

[hyperstation]

There's a huge one IMO to add to the Cons list that you missed, FD. There's one mutation of the stage, when we're on the island that slopes off on both sides, which is VERY bad for ganon when you're playing against someone campy (Samus, Rob, Falco, Wolf, etc). Campers can park themselves on one side of the island and SH to fire a projectile which barely skirts along the ground of the raised, center part of the island. This makes it exceedingly difficult to approach if you're playing against someone who is good at camping and understands the advantage that this part of the level affords them.