Stage Ban Quick Reference

[FOUREYES]

How to use this guide: Read it. Learn it. If you want to know why we ban/strike/cp a stage against whatever character, click on the character's name, and if there's an explanation in the thread, it'll take you to the post containing said explanation.

Stagelist (as of Unity Ruleset v1.3):

Starters | Counterpicks
Battlefield|Battleship Halberd
Castle Siege|Brinstar
Final Destination|Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise|Pokémon Stadium 2
Pokemon Stadium 1|Rainbow Cruise
Smashville|Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)|

Please post your opinions on what to strike, ban, CP, and what CP you think the opponent will ban. Assume the opponent will not switch characters (unrealistic, but for the sake of discussion go with it).

To search for a specific character, simply press Ctrl-F and type the character's name. The characters are listed in the order of the Tier List v6.



Meta Knight
---
Strike:
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Smashville
(3) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Castle Siege
(2) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Battlefield



Diddy Kong
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Pokemon Stadium 1
(3) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Smashville
---
Ban:
(1) Final Destination/Rainbow Cruise (but only against Player-1)
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island


Snake
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Lylat
(3) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Frigate/Brinstar
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Delfino
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) Delfino
(2) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Final Destination/Rainbow Cruise



Falco
---
Strike:
(1) Final Destination
(2) Castle Siege
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) Brinstar
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island



Marth
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Lylat Cruise
(3) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Smashville
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Castle Siege
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Final Destination



Wario
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Smashville
(3) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Brinstar
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Halberd/Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Delfino
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



Ice Climbers
---
Strike:
(1) Final Destination
(2) Battlefield
(3) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Ban:
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) Brinstar
(2) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise




Olimar
---
Preference



Pikachu
---
Strike:
(1) Smashville
(2) Battlefield
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 2
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



Lucario
---
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Pokemon Stadium 1
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Frigate/Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise/Frigate
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



King Dedede
---
Strike:
(1) Smashville
(2) Castle Siege
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Smashville
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Battlefield



Zero Suit Samus
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Battlefield
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1/Brinstar
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Final Destination/Halberd



Mr. Game & Watch
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Battlefield
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



Toon Link
---
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Pokemon Stadium 1
(3) Battlefield
(Runner Up) Smashville
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Frigate
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Castle Siege
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Lylat/FD



Fox
---
Strike:
(1) Final Destination
(2) Smashville
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Frigate
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Delfino


Wolf
---
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Final Destination
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Delfino Plaza
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Battlefield


Peach
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Battlefield
(3) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Smashville
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 1/Smashville
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



Donkey Kong
---
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Pokemon Stadium 1
(3) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Brinstar
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Final Destination
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Halberd


Kirby
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Smashville
(3) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Ban:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Pokemon Stadium 2
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
Counterpick
(1) Final Destination
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise



R.O.B.
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Lylat Cruise
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Ban:
(1) Frigate
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Final Destination
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege


Pit
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Final Destination
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 2
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege



Sonic
---
Strike:
(1) Final Destination
(2) Yoshi's Island
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) Smashville



Ike
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Lylat Cruise
(3) Pokemon Stadium 1
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Brinstar
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Smashville
(Runner Up) Final Destination



Zelda/Sheik
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Luigi
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Sheik
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Ness
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Yoshi
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Pokemon Trainer
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Lucas
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Mario
---
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Smashville
(3) Battlefield
(Runner Up) Lylat Cruise
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Rainbow Cruise
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island
---
Counterpick
(1) Castle Siege
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island



Bowser
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Yoshi's Island
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
Ban:
(1) Brinstar
(Runner Up) Delfino Plaza
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Castle Siege
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Delfino Plaza



Samus
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Captain Falcon
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Link
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Jigglypuff
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Zelda
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)



Ganondorf
---
Strike:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(Runner Up)
---
Ban:
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
What they will likely ban
(1)
(Runner Up)
---
Counterpick
(1)
(2)
(Runner Up)

 

[Ussi]

Ike:

We'll ban FD first (no exceptions) and assuming we get a 2nd ban in a bo5 its personal perference but i'd say halberd is a safe 2nd ban. (assuming SV was your first CP)

We strike FD, SV, then whatever (most will strike YI:B as we like BF, ps1, cs, and lylat more)

What to ban against us... Our main CPs:

BF, RC, lylat, ps1

Since its Ike, its not terriblely hard to fight him anywhere, but he can fight just about anywhere just fine (except fd)

Halberd is a safe CP, generally i would say... Just watch out for jab > utilt from Ike. Most of the time though i see kills off the side for Ike in this particular MU. But i dunno how you Olimars think


I dunno if you guys had an order going on, but i just did a friendly info dump

 

[Sky Pirate]

Hey, I tried to do something like this a long time ago. Nice to see someone else wanted to do this. :D
I'm only commenting on the ones I have a lot of experience with. If any of these are "wrong", feel free to call me a fool and slap me with your knowledge.

[collapse="Stages"]Metaknight
Strike:
(1) Smashville
(2) Final Destination

Ban:
(1) Frigate
(2) Brinstar

What they will likely ban:
(1) Halberd

Snake
Strike:
(1) Smashville
(2) Lylat

Counterpick
(1) Final Destination

Marth
Strike:
(1) Smashville
(2) Battlefield

What they will likely ban:
(1) Halberd

Counterpick:
(1) Halberd

Wario
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) Smashville

Ban:
(1) Rainbow Cruise

Counterpick:
(1) Halberd
(2) Delfino

Ice Climbers
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Counterpick:
(1) Smashville

Kirby
Strike:
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1
(2) Smashville

Ban
(1) Pokemon Stadium 1

Counterpick:
(1) Halberd
(2) Final Destination

Ike
Strike
(1) Battlefield

Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Final Destination

Bowser
Strike
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) Smashville

Ban
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Brinstar

What they will likely ban:
(1) Halberd

Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat
(Runner Up) Delfino[/collapse]

I'm refraining from commenting on Yoshi because apparently Poltergust doesn't play the match-up the way the other Yoshis do.

 

[FOUREYES]

Thanks for the input guys, it's all been added to the thread. I'm going to read up on the rest of the top tier to try and have all of the top tier done by the end of the day.

EDIT: Added pikachu information since I used to main him. RC is definitely our best ban against a good pikachu, but Pikachu is one of the few characters that can abuse PS2 really well (it was always my favorite CP as pika actually), so if you know they have a preference for that stage I'd go ahead and ban it.

 

[Sky Pirate]

About Bowser's bans, I would definitely put Yoshi's Island as #1 rather than Brinstar.

 

[FOUREYES]

About Bowser's bans, I would definitely put Yoshi's Island as #1 rather than Brinstar.

Okay, fixed.

EDIT: Any input on Toon Link would be great, I have absolutely no idea what to CP/what stages he likes, and the only info I can find on their boards is like a bajillion years old.

 

[professor mgw]

Okay, fixed.

EDIT: Any input on Toon Link would be great, I have absolutely no idea what to CP/what stages he likes, and the only info I can find on their boards is like a bajillion years old.

Personally I like to CP long stages (FD or SV). I feel Tink is more dangerous on smaller stages, but paticularly BF.

 

[Sky Pirate]

BF isn't thaaaaaat small. IIRC, it's about 75% the size of FD or something.

 

[IcyLight]

i really like camping under platforms against TL on battlefield, pshield > followups are pro on his arrows and grapple and put him in bad spots. personal opinion on battlefield vs tl though

 

[FOUREYES]

That makes sense, given that TLink can't outcamp us. So strike Yoshi's, Lylat, and PS1, leaving FD, CS, SV, and BF open. The few times I've played against TLink I've had pretty good luck on CS, so maybe put that as our main CP with FD as our secondary CP. I'm guessing we should ban either Yoshi's or Brinstar given that they're gonna want a smaller stage where it's harder to keep them out. That sound about right to everyone?

 

[IcyLight]

i REALLY like lylat against TL, the slant of the stage kills his arrows, plus you can grab a platform and camp under it the same as BF.
There are just so many stages to bring him to.

Strike: Yoshis, PS1, and any other stage you dislike out of the rest. We have a lot of good neutrals vs TL so this last strike is completely up to you.

BAN: Brinstar, Frigate, or yoshis. A LOT of TL's like delfino, but that's good for us, but do expect to possibly be brought there.

Counterpick: FD, Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd

 

[Sky Pirate]

MJG wrote something a while back containing information about stages TL picks and bans against us.

 

[IcyLight]

hmmm i'm not sure why they would ban YI against us. It is a great stage for us but I would think that it would be better for them in this MU because of easy gap closing. I dunno, need more olimar contribution and reasoning

 

[Dabuz]

Diddy Kong
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) PS1
(3) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Nothing else
---
Ban:
(1) Battlefield
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's island
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island



Ill try to do one of these a day with my opinions.

Protips:
1. No one (except MAYBE snake) will ban Dabuz's Cruise/ brinstar on olimar
2. Don't strike Dabuz's Destination unless its falco, ICs, or Diddy.
3. Dabuz's Castle +halberd are excellent CPs for 80% of the cast

 

[Sky Pirate]

hmmm i'm not sure why they would ban YI against us. It is a great stage for us but I would think that it would be better for them in this MU because of easy gap closing. I dunno, need more olimar contribution and reasoning

That is exactly what I said. I PM'd him with a follow-up afterward and he said

"I have matches from each of those stages with fino and that is why I feel that way towards the stages that I like to go to and the stages that I ban."

 

[IcyLight]

That is exactly what I said. I PM'd him with a follow-up afterward and he said

"I have matches from each of those stages with fino and that is why I feel that way towards the stages that I like to go to and the stages that I ban."

ahh...so it's possible he suggests YI just because of good experiences against Fino. need more olimar input for this one, all olimars are different

 

[Turazrok]

Leave SV open for diddy dabuz?

 

[Dabuz]

yes, SV is very good for us because of the moving platform. If you watch me vs. ADHD, i make pretty good use of the platform IIRC



Ice Climbers
---
Strike:
(1) Final Destination
(2) Battlefield
(3) Yoshi's island
(Runner Up) Castle siege
---
Ban:
(1) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Battlefield
(Runner Up) Lylat cruise/ Halberd
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Delphino Plaza
(Runner Up) Smashville




now, let me explain my reasoning for this



Strikes: FD is bad for obvious reasons, i actually don't mind it in the MU since i understand ICs pretty well (I actually ban BF over FD), but generally its bad. YI is dangerous just because if the ICs know how to platform cancel, they can get a surprise grab very easily. BTW, platform canceling is a very useful AT if you take the time to learn it. Castle siege part 1 is too small, part 2 is fine, and part 3 is like a small FD.

Ban: FD is bad, so is BF (IMO), pick your poison

What they will likely ban: For some reason, ICs like to ban BF because its to small, i guess no one likes the stage Its hard to say about lylat/ halberd, both are bad for ICs vs. olimar, i think a more experienced IC will opt to ban lylat, while an IC who is less experienced in the MU will opt for halberd.

Counterpick: Lylat and Delphino are both amazing for oli in the MU, and smashville's platform is pretty good as well, mainly because when its offstage, thats an opening to get back on the main stage, or recover from the ledge. I don't CP halberd normally because its similar to Yoshi's, but if your sure the ICs won't platform cancel or keep you on the platform well, then go for it.

 

[IcyLight]

i'm really starting to like this thread when things are explained in more detail :D

 

[Player-1]

Diddy Kong
---
Strike:
(1) Battlefield
(2) PS1
(3) Final Destination
(Runner Up) Nothing else
---
Ban:
(1) Battlefield
(Runner Up) Final Destination
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's island
---
Counterpick
(1) Lylat Cruise
(2) Halberd
(Runner Up) Yoshi's Island



Ill try to do one of these a day with my opinions.

Protips:
1. No one (except MAYBE snake) will ban Dabuz's Cruise/ brinstar on olimar
2. Don't strike Dabuz's Destination unless its falco, ICs, or Diddy.
3. Dabuz's Castle +halberd are excellent CPs for 80% of the cast

why would I ban dabuz's cruise when I can just CP P1's Cruise and win.

 

[Dabuz]

Well, you are P1, the only diddy in existence to CP dabuz's cruise, therefore your logic is ignorable

 

[professor mgw]

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzgLw...e_gdata_player

Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGo2...e_gdata_player

Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFuND...e_gdata_player

Match 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZb8...e_gdata_player

Oli vs toonmeat

@Dabuz: nice stuff on the diddy kong :0

 

[Dabuz]

@professor MGW: those links don't work



Lucario
---
Strike:
(1) Yoshi's Island
(2) PS1
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Your choice (Most people will want to strike BF)
---
Ban:
(1) Frigate/ Rainbow Cruise
(Runner Up) Frigate/ Rainbow Cruise
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Halberd
(Runner Up) ...honestly, IDK what else
---
Counterpick
(1) Halberd
(2) Lylat Cruise
(Runner Up) Castle siege



explanations:

strikes: Yoshi's Island has a layout that makes it hard to kill lucario and adds a lot of safeness to moves, while this is true of most characters, including ours, olimar does not gain much from the extra safeness provided by yoshi's island, while lucario gains a lot, especially because he has a good spacing game thanks to fsmash. PS1 is very close up and compact, against lucario, i would rather as much range as possible, he pressures oli well while oli has very little pressure on lucario. dabuzville is a stage all lucarios are familiar on, and the moving platform doesn't help much in the MU, hence why i strike it. After that, BF's small size makes it kinda annoying to fight Lucario on, but honestly, all the remaining stages are good in the MU, so just pick your favorite. I personally prefer lylat.


Ban: RC is bad for olimar and ok for lucario, hence why you might want to ban that. Frigate is great for both olimar and lucario in the MU, i personally love the stage, and in this MU, wen eed purples and yellows, but lucario's normally CP here, so its hard to say who favors dabuz's orpheon more

What they will ban: Halberd is bad for lucario, he dies earlier, the stage indent is annoying for him, he has no gimmicks with his recovery until the ship, overall, ANY lucario will ban this stage. IDK what else lucario would want to ban in comparison.

Counterpick: IF halberd isn't banned, always go there. dabuz's cruise is great because we get more yellows, and lucario has trouble dealing with the tilting. The platforms also make lucario's juggling game just about useless. Dabuz's castle is good because part 1 is compact but uneven and has nice platform placements, hard for lucario to maneuver around, part 2 is just GREAT for olimar and limits lucario greatly. Part 3 is FD, but with the lylat tilting, very good for olimar.




questions? comments? also, i would like input from other people, if this stage thread turns into every other one i tried making, where only i post stuff, im not gonna bother anymore.

 

[FOUREYES]

@dabuz - I just wanna say that I really appreciate your contributions and insight to the thread, but I'm totally with you that more people need to contribute. I made this thread hoping to get more of a conversation going about stages/bans/cp's in general, since everyone always says that Olimar is a character that can do well on a lot of stages depending on who his opponent is, but no one has a consolidated place to go for newer players to find more up-to-date information on where to bring other characters. I would contribute more myself, but I'm still pretty new to the competitive scene and don't feel like I have the raw experience needed to provide educated information about a lot of these matchups.

Anyway, I changed some of the pika stage choices around today, and if anyone has anything to contribute for Snake, Wario, Marth, or Falco, that would be amazing, considering that most of the stage choices there are things I put down based on assumptions made from playing only a few matches against decent-but-not-fantastic players of those characters and reading their guides/watching some youtube matches with those characters. Snake would be especially good, considering he's he second most important matchup to know and takes away one of our best CPs (Halberd).

 

[Sky Pirate]

I remember Hilt saying that yellows are bad against Lucario because you're either going to "hit or not hit", which I take to mean that the extra range makes little difference compared to the extra da,age from other pikmin.
Your thoughts, dabuz?

 

[professor mgw]

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzgLwaBUkw0

Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGo2xv2AC0

Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFuNDD29flI

Match 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZb8UrvqOM

( I won match 4.)

 

[IcyLight]

Wow screw this smashboards randomly not working and "Bad Gateway", i had a huge *** page typed up for snake and had to do it over...

I have had to fight Bizkit and Fatal alllllllllllll the time and seem to go pretty damn even with them, so here are my opinions for the snake mu.


Snake
---
Strike:
(1) Ps1
(2) Lylat
(3) Smashville
(Runner Up) Battlefield
---
Ban:
(1) PS1
(Runner Up) Brinstar or Frigate
---
What they will likely ban
(1) Yoshi's Island
(Runner Up) Halberd / Rainbow Cruise
---
Counterpick
(1) YI
(2) Castle Siege
(Runner Up) FD / RC


--Strikes--
I find PS1 to be EXTREMELY difficult to fight snake on. His C4 is constantly moving because of stage transformations, he can out camp us, and he can get into our close-range deathzone we focus on avoiding. If a snake is very efficient with his nades, he will be able to get them to you anywhere you could be on the stage. You are NOT able to get your pikmin everywhere, so this immediately makes this stage in his favor for camping. Many of the transformations put you into the close range death zone, and you want to keep a mid-range stance for this matchup. You get too far, he can out camp, you get too close and he ***** you.

Lylat can be extremely annoying to fight snake on as well. He has so many ways to recover from the air because of the platform positioning and can hide his nades/C4 because of the darkness on his way down. Be very wary of nades and C4 on this stage because sometimes it's hard to keep track of them. The tilt of the stage can kill your Fsmash as well, giving him an easier time approaching...which is what we try to prevent.

--Bans--
PS1 for the reasons stated above.

Brinstar isn't a very good stage for us in general. The hitboxes on the destructible parts of the stage slow our attacks giving us too much lag. Our grab stops at the edge of the destructible parts as well, taking our grab out of the game now and then. The stage is WAY too small to fight snake on, we don't want to be in close quarters and that's all this stage is.

Frigate really isn't the worst stage for us for this matchup, but it's usually pretty bad for us. The first transformation is really hard because there is no ledge on the right side of the stage. It's hard enough trying to get back on against snake as it is, having no ledge is just a death trap. The rest of the stage is good for us though, we can make a house under the platforms and bake cookies.

--Why do they ban YI and RC?--
YI is a VERY good stage for us in this matchup. We are constantly in the mid-range stance making it very difficult for them to out camp us. The platform is very long and makes it hard for them to approach from any angle. Just get him above you as quick as possible and you are immediately at an advantage, it's very difficult for them to get back into a good position once they are above us on this stage. Just be careful, they will keep putting nades/C4 on the platform trying to knock you out from under there. Don't underestimate the nade explosion range.

RC is a bad stage for snake, and debatable for olimar. However, in this matchup it's very good for olimar. The multilevel platforms allow us to completely shut out his nade game. He can't get very close without being in the air first, which is exactly where we want them to be. Plus, if he does happen to get close, he hits you once and you are away. You can just run around at your leisure and get him when he's in the air =)

--Counterpicks--
YI is definitely the best stage for us in this matchup, reasons stated above.

CS is also very close to YI, but I prefer YI still. CS, all you do is get him above you in the first transition and it's hard for him to land. It's a little bit close quarters however, so try to keep your distance until he jumps/tries to approach. Otherwise it's a mid-range camp fest, which is where you are at your strongest. Phase 2 completely kills out his long-range nade camping because of the statues. They will most likely try to up-b plank at the top of the stage here, dropping nades/C4/nikita. Just get your tethers/uairs in as you can and wait it out.

The last transition is basically FD, so it's easy for us. The biggest disadvantage to this part of the stage is the laggy pikmin plucks, so try not to let too many die here

FD is a very good stage for us in this matchup as well. The stage is very linear so it's pretty predictable. You know how he is going to edge guard, you know how he is going to camp and approach. And most of all, you know how he is going to land from the air. Just be patient and keep a mid-range stance and you will do very well on this stage.

--What about Halberd?!--
Well...I'm afraid to bring snakes here because of how quick they can kill us. They are afraid to bring us here because we can kill them very quickly as well. It's just one of those stages both sides of the matchup usually try to avoid. You can go here if you want. Don't worry about it too much if they bring you here either, you are perfectly capable of winning on this stage. Just don't get impatient or you will die at 60 ><




*****FINAL NOTES*****

You can probably bring snake to BF and SV if you don't like to fight on YI and CS. BF and SV seem to be pretty even stages for the matchup. Just watch out for his moving C4 on smashville platform.
If anyone would like to add more, this is my second write up of this so I probably forgot something xD

 

[FOUREYES]

Finally got around to editing your Snake information into the OP. In addition, I've added hyperlinks to posts that explain why we CP/Ban/Strike certain stages against certain characters to the OP; if you click on the name of a character, it'll take you to the post detailing why to CP/Ban/Strike those particular stages.

 

[Sky Pirate]

If you know that a Pit knows to CP PS2, ban the hell out of it. That crap is migraine-inducing.
FD's pretty bad too, and probably more commonly picked.

Would probably be safe to add FD and SV to stages to strike against Fox.

Should probably strike BF, FD, and YI against Wolf and CP Lylat and Frigate.

Any objections?

 

[Inferno3044]

I saw this thread and I thought I could give some info for Mario. The stages olimar should cp are imo are halberd and/or Yoshi's. Personally I ban halberd vs. Olimar because I have been told that is his best stage and I feel more comfortable on Yoshi's. Most olimars I have faced ban brinstar and I cp them to rainbow.

 

[FOUREYES]

How does Mario do on Castle Siege? That's probably Oli's other best CP besides Halberd.

 

[Dabuz]

I would actually CP dabuz's castle instead of halberd in the Mario MU. The first phase layout is <3 for olimar, same with second phase, AND third phase

 

[Inferno3044]

Personally I hate cs and its not too good a Mario stage either. It would be a great cp for olimar

 

[Sky Pirate]

Strike FD and Yoshi's Island against Sonic.
FD gives him too much room and the lack of platforms makes it harder for us to land, and Yoshi's Island for the obvious reasons.

I don't remember the reasoning, but I remember hearing that PS1 is also a bad stage to fight him on.
Any thoughts?

 

[professor mgw]

Plays around on platforms to much on Play Station 1. How about falco?

 

[FOUREYES]

Added Sonic. Also, people who are good, what do you guys think of the stage choices vs. MK? He's the absolute most important matchup to have right here. Some more info on Falco would be nice too, considering he's our worst matchup.

 

[IcyLight]

MK's stage list looks alright to me, don't see any need to change. We need someone like rich to explain the reasoning for MK and Falco though

 

[Dabuz]

disagreed with MK 100%

WE should be striking PS1, smashville, and YI. BF is our best neutral, followed by FD, then lylat.

Ban brinstar, then RC, frigate gives us amazing pikmin and the second phase has the dip which is great for us.

They normally ban FD on me, or the ones that know me better will probably ban my castle.

I CP castle siege, BF, and FD in that order, although im thinking about switching FD for Lylat

 

[IcyLight]

disagreed with MK 100%

WE should be striking PS1, smashville, and halberd. BF is our best neutral, followed by FD, then lylat, then YI.

Ban brinstar, then RC, frigate gives us amazing pikmin and the second phase has the dip which is great for us.

They normally ban FD on me, or the ones that know me better will probably ban my castle.

I CP castle siege, BF, and FD in that order, although im thinking about switching FD for Lylat

hmmm this actually sounds better, except halberd isn't a stage strike

i like fighting MK on RC, so def keep brinstar banned over RC.

 

[Dabuz]

OK, edited it