saladhor
Smash Rookie
Awesome. I'll try to be there. Do you know where exactly at WashU?
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St.Louis Area Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Zig-Zag!
- Start date
I'll post the event page for a tournament we are going to host at a later date (it's in the same location as the weeklies) as it gives detailed instructions on where to park/how to get into the buildings, etc. http://smashboards.com/threads/apr-18-2015-wunderland-st-louis-mo.390515/
saladhor
Smash Rookie
Have you gone to one of these tournaments before? Do you know how much it costs to enter and when you should pay?
CopShowGuy
Smash Ace
We have a bunch of people that get together and play at least once a week and we have a bi-weekly tournament as well.
darkatma
Smash Hero
Some smash advice for people from yesterday's smashfest:
Bees?:
There are a couple things you could be doing in the marth spacies matchup to keep up with them a little better.
VS falco you want to learn how to wavedash out of shield and use platforms to get around the laser game. You didn't seem to have trouble particularly vs lasers though, which is good. Try to be actionable as soon as possible out of shield, and don't forget to tilt your shield so you don't get poked, since marth's shield is relatively awful. I don't have as much to say about falco, but if you have specific questions, ask me and I'll try to answer them as well as possible.
VS fox the issue was mostly that I was outspeeding you and you aren't accustomed to making quick decisions at that level yet. A couple things to work on in neutral: 1) learn maximum dash dance spacing and how to incorporate wavedashes into your dash game so you stay very mobile. Don't give fox time to stuff your shield and trap you with fewer options. 2) You're getting semi consistent with L canceling, now try to do an action as soon as you L cancel. Frootloop calls this getting rid of dead frames in your gameplay so you can up the efficiency and speed of your overall play. L canceled aerial -> dash forward or back is one of the most useful. 3) Practice getting your jump cancel grab 100% consistent. It saves you 10+ frames of end lag on your grab should you miss, and the grab range is either comparable or better than running grab.
Come out to more smashfests, I can help you work on your punish game vs the spacies as well.
Jupiter Bully:
For teams:
Falco needs to play pretty differently in teams. You have to choose your spots to laser very carefully, otherwise you end up interrupting your teammate's combos. You can throw out larger priority hitboxes at ease in teams. These include uptilts (or tilts in general for falco), bair, nair, even fsmash and dsmash can be really good. Also it's good to not commit in neutral if you see an interaction between your teammate and the opponent, because you can either choose to save your teammate if they lose the exchange, or volley the opponent back at your teammate if they win.
In terms of overall positioning in teams, I'd recommend reading NMW's guide on teams for a good gist of it. It's a fairly comprehensive guide that is easy to get into. Here's the link for it http://pastebin.com/EsmWEYZN
For singles/in general:
You need to practice tech skill in a way that you are confident doing each move. From your current gameplay it looks like you need more left hand control in your gameplay overall. Practice various movements of all speeds and precisions with your left hand, for example slow dash dances, quick dash dances, wavedashing at different angles, buffering uptilt during a wavedash, fastfalling after every aerial at various speeds, pressing slight inputs for shield DI and regular DI, wavedash forward turnaround wavedash to ledgegrab, shine turn around shenanigans, etc. Try to get each movement precise before you worry about speed. Left hand control is probably the most important fundamental thing in smash, so all these quick precise inputs should challenge you and help you improve if you put the effort into it.
Yungglords: "Hey darkatma. I have a few questions about shiek. Im trying to get tech chasing and the frames as close to memorized as I can. Would practicing against a level one Fox be okay for this? And also, any tips for practicing sprinting into a dash dance? Pretty basic I know, but I can dash dance, but not unless I start it from neutral. Anyway. Sorry for blowing up your phone!" [sic]
Your best bet for learning techchasing with sheik is to look at the frame data for all the techs as well as possible. http://imgur.com/a/l3Js8 this is a set of all space animal techs to stare at if you're bored. I couldn't find a way to expand these into frames because the files are now in gifv form instead of gif form. Basically someone said that fox's tech in place and tech behind animations are very similar all the way up to frame 6. By then you can tell if he's doing a handstand in place or a diagonal handstand. The tech away (forward) animation is more discernable slightly earlier than that.
If you have a 20XX hack pack, the computer AI does a good job of teching left or right, but seldom techs in place or misses tech. It's still a better way to practice than a level 1 computer though, since they rarely tech at all.
As for dash dance, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Sheik's dashdance is hard to do because it is very short. Sheik only has 8 frames of dash compared to falcon's 15 or 18 (I forget). You either have to do something other than a dashdance or incorporate foxtrot into your dashdance. Check out this thread by Kadano on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/2nm2zb/sheiks_long_dashdance/ He explains how foxtrot works and the controller inputs to do it, especially for sheik.
Bees?:
There are a couple things you could be doing in the marth spacies matchup to keep up with them a little better.
VS falco you want to learn how to wavedash out of shield and use platforms to get around the laser game. You didn't seem to have trouble particularly vs lasers though, which is good. Try to be actionable as soon as possible out of shield, and don't forget to tilt your shield so you don't get poked, since marth's shield is relatively awful. I don't have as much to say about falco, but if you have specific questions, ask me and I'll try to answer them as well as possible.
VS fox the issue was mostly that I was outspeeding you and you aren't accustomed to making quick decisions at that level yet. A couple things to work on in neutral: 1) learn maximum dash dance spacing and how to incorporate wavedashes into your dash game so you stay very mobile. Don't give fox time to stuff your shield and trap you with fewer options. 2) You're getting semi consistent with L canceling, now try to do an action as soon as you L cancel. Frootloop calls this getting rid of dead frames in your gameplay so you can up the efficiency and speed of your overall play. L canceled aerial -> dash forward or back is one of the most useful. 3) Practice getting your jump cancel grab 100% consistent. It saves you 10+ frames of end lag on your grab should you miss, and the grab range is either comparable or better than running grab.
Come out to more smashfests, I can help you work on your punish game vs the spacies as well.
Jupiter Bully:
For teams:
Falco needs to play pretty differently in teams. You have to choose your spots to laser very carefully, otherwise you end up interrupting your teammate's combos. You can throw out larger priority hitboxes at ease in teams. These include uptilts (or tilts in general for falco), bair, nair, even fsmash and dsmash can be really good. Also it's good to not commit in neutral if you see an interaction between your teammate and the opponent, because you can either choose to save your teammate if they lose the exchange, or volley the opponent back at your teammate if they win.
In terms of overall positioning in teams, I'd recommend reading NMW's guide on teams for a good gist of it. It's a fairly comprehensive guide that is easy to get into. Here's the link for it http://pastebin.com/EsmWEYZN
For singles/in general:
You need to practice tech skill in a way that you are confident doing each move. From your current gameplay it looks like you need more left hand control in your gameplay overall. Practice various movements of all speeds and precisions with your left hand, for example slow dash dances, quick dash dances, wavedashing at different angles, buffering uptilt during a wavedash, fastfalling after every aerial at various speeds, pressing slight inputs for shield DI and regular DI, wavedash forward turnaround wavedash to ledgegrab, shine turn around shenanigans, etc. Try to get each movement precise before you worry about speed. Left hand control is probably the most important fundamental thing in smash, so all these quick precise inputs should challenge you and help you improve if you put the effort into it.
Yungglords: "Hey darkatma. I have a few questions about shiek. Im trying to get tech chasing and the frames as close to memorized as I can. Would practicing against a level one Fox be okay for this? And also, any tips for practicing sprinting into a dash dance? Pretty basic I know, but I can dash dance, but not unless I start it from neutral. Anyway. Sorry for blowing up your phone!" [sic]
Your best bet for learning techchasing with sheik is to look at the frame data for all the techs as well as possible. http://imgur.com/a/l3Js8 this is a set of all space animal techs to stare at if you're bored. I couldn't find a way to expand these into frames because the files are now in gifv form instead of gif form. Basically someone said that fox's tech in place and tech behind animations are very similar all the way up to frame 6. By then you can tell if he's doing a handstand in place or a diagonal handstand. The tech away (forward) animation is more discernable slightly earlier than that.
If you have a 20XX hack pack, the computer AI does a good job of teching left or right, but seldom techs in place or misses tech. It's still a better way to practice than a level 1 computer though, since they rarely tech at all.
As for dash dance, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Sheik's dashdance is hard to do because it is very short. Sheik only has 8 frames of dash compared to falcon's 15 or 18 (I forget). You either have to do something other than a dashdance or incorporate foxtrot into your dashdance. Check out this thread by Kadano on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/2nm2zb/sheiks_long_dashdance/ He explains how foxtrot works and the controller inputs to do it, especially for sheik.
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JayFizzy
Smash Cadet
my smashboards name is so awful LOL
its the bg baby
its the bg baby
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tainted_granola
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
- Messages
- 1
Would it be ok for me to come to another tourney? I felt like a lot of people were sick of me after the last t ravs. I just flu back into town so I hope you guys can stomach having me there again.
Tityboi
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2013
- Messages
- 44
my smashboards name is soooooo good
NineWholeGrains
Smash Rookie
Present!
I've been using the green overlay on the 20XX pack to practice reducing my dead frames and it almost feels like it's not my Marth. You wouldn't think a few frames here or there would make a ton of difference, but the fluidity gained completely changes the way the character is played.
winrus
Smash Rookie
Oh my god yes, the green highlight has been a godsend practicing platform movement. Not to mention the Ice Climbers target smash stage. 20XX is amazing.
TheCandyman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 140
- 3DS FC
- 3866-8591-8094
So where exactly is Toasted Ravs 7 going to be? I've never been to a tournament before so yeah
EDIT: How did I not see the Facebook page thing?
EDIT: How did I not see the Facebook page thing?
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NastyNard
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 26
Does anyone have advice about fox trotting? I've been interested in increasing my movement options as sheik to do more than just run forward -> wd back, but I've had a hard time incorporating fox trotting because it feels so much slower than DD'ing, and I always end up abandoning it in actual matches.
Edit: Just saw the link in Atma's last post, I'll have to check that out.
Edit: Just saw the link in Atma's last post, I'll have to check that out.
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MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
There's 188 individual entrants for warehouse, thanks for signing up, looking to shape up to be a great event like GR was up in WI. We look forward to seeing you all this weekend up in MN.
The 3rd leg is in Bellevue, NE, Roll Tier V: Legacy, it features $2000 in pot bonuses and on Sunday there will be side tournaments for 64 and Brawl singles as well (more info on that in a few days).
Currently the venue fee is $5, and will be so until this tuesday!
If you want to figure out housing or if you have any other questions feel free to post here or to message me!
RTV is March 28th-29th with a set up party Friday, March 27th.
Registration Page: http://www.payitsquare.com/collect-page/58753
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/741977089225317
Smashboards: http://smashboards.com/threads/mar-...al-event-with-2000-bonuses-bellevue-ne.372817
The event after that is in Des Moines IA on April 11th, Spring Showdown! It currently also has a $5 venue and should be great like all the other events!
Registration Page: http://www.payitsquare.com/collect-page/61429
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/792293694167057/
Smashboards: http://smashboards.com/threads/apr-11-2015-spring-showdown-des-moines-iowa.380393/
Midwest Circuit Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/midw...elee-pm-sm4sh-wi-mn-ne-ia-mo-co-ks-il.386220/
The 3rd leg is in Bellevue, NE, Roll Tier V: Legacy, it features $2000 in pot bonuses and on Sunday there will be side tournaments for 64 and Brawl singles as well (more info on that in a few days).
Currently the venue fee is $5, and will be so until this tuesday!
If you want to figure out housing or if you have any other questions feel free to post here or to message me!
RTV is March 28th-29th with a set up party Friday, March 27th.
Registration Page: http://www.payitsquare.com/collect-page/58753
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/741977089225317
Smashboards: http://smashboards.com/threads/mar-...al-event-with-2000-bonuses-bellevue-ne.372817
The event after that is in Des Moines IA on April 11th, Spring Showdown! It currently also has a $5 venue and should be great like all the other events!
Registration Page: http://www.payitsquare.com/collect-page/61429
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/792293694167057/
Smashboards: http://smashboards.com/threads/apr-11-2015-spring-showdown-des-moines-iowa.380393/
Midwest Circuit Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/midw...elee-pm-sm4sh-wi-mn-ne-ia-mo-co-ks-il.386220/
NineWholeGrains
Smash Rookie
Great smashfest tonight, everyone. It was great to see people from all over the STL area come and play!
darkatma
Smash Hero
There should be a handful of people east of the river. Check our facebook group as well, many of them don't use smashboards yet.
Also check out the webster monthly this weekend!
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saladhor
Smash Rookie
Is there a tournament at Wash U Easter weekend?
Tityboi
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2013
- Messages
- 44
Does someone want to critique one of these matches for me? AKA Binyan
https://youtu.be/fEJ4N1T75Bg
https://youtu.be/DH8H1VAFuhY
https://youtu.be/fEJ4N1T75Bg
https://youtu.be/DH8H1VAFuhY
saladhor
Smash Rookie
Where and when is the Webster monthly?
Arma_
Smash Apprentice
We've been seeing a bit of stagnation to the Smash 4 scene in terms of new players. I noticed that Smashboards doesn't really have a lot of information on what happens in a typical week for our scene, so here's a summary.
STLBarWarz - Bi-weekly tournaments hosted at Danno's American Pub. Events and news can be found on their Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/162477990468832/
STLSmash Thursdays - Weekly Smashfest hosted (currently) at my house in Richmond Heights. Starts at 7PM usually and runs until midnight-ish. Streamed and usually a free tournament is run just for fun. PM me for my address if you're interested and let me know by replying to this thread.
WashU Weekend Weeklies - Hosted on Saturdays at Washington University. The tournament takes place in room 22 of Lopata House. Setup begins at 1PM and a low stakes tournament ($2 currently) is run at around 1:00PM - 2:00PM.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TN0Puuh5J83fccIqF0JyffzVRPdmxrUSHu3SeAmYoEk/edit#gid=0
We tend to keep in touch on Facebook rather than Smashboards for some reason - I'm going to guess since most of us met at BarWarz, which is run through Facebook. We have a group named 'St. Louis Smash 4' for some organization things as well. Obviously the best thing to do is to simply come to an event. PM me and I will give you my address, I just would rather not throw it on this public forum. I will try to keep tabs on this topic.
We really would love to expand the scene, so if you're curious about Smash 4 or want to become more involved, hit me up!
STLBarWarz - Bi-weekly tournaments hosted at Danno's American Pub. Events and news can be found on their Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/162477990468832/
STLSmash Thursdays - Weekly Smashfest hosted (currently) at my house in Richmond Heights. Starts at 7PM usually and runs until midnight-ish. Streamed and usually a free tournament is run just for fun. PM me for my address if you're interested and let me know by replying to this thread.
WashU Weekend Weeklies - Hosted on Saturdays at Washington University. The tournament takes place in room 22 of Lopata House. Setup begins at 1PM and a low stakes tournament ($2 currently) is run at around 1:00PM - 2:00PM.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TN0Puuh5J83fccIqF0JyffzVRPdmxrUSHu3SeAmYoEk/edit#gid=0
We tend to keep in touch on Facebook rather than Smashboards for some reason - I'm going to guess since most of us met at BarWarz, which is run through Facebook. We have a group named 'St. Louis Smash 4' for some organization things as well. Obviously the best thing to do is to simply come to an event. PM me and I will give you my address, I just would rather not throw it on this public forum. I will try to keep tabs on this topic.
We really would love to expand the scene, so if you're curious about Smash 4 or want to become more involved, hit me up!
I can't find that Facebook page. Can you give me a direct link?
TheCandyman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 140
- 3DS FC
- 3866-8591-8094
^ Neither can I
@
Nestec
@
TheCandyman
LMAO. Sorry guys. We've realized our true calling is to master Dead or Alive. We're now "St. Louis Dead or Alive 5" on Facebook. Hit us up. We'll not disappoint.
Nestec
@
TheCandyman
LMAO. Sorry guys. We've realized our true calling is to master Dead or Alive. We're now "St. Louis Dead or Alive 5" on Facebook. Hit us up. We'll not disappoint.
Don't worry. It's just for today. Group will be fully functional after a few days
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TheCandyman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 140
- 3DS FC
- 3866-8591-8094
Indeed it is.
saladhor
Smash Rookie
So where is the Webster monthly located this weekend?
NastyNard
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 26
Are you a member of the Facebook page? That's a much more reliable way of finding out this kind of information.
saladhor
Smash Rookie
No, I'm not. Do you have a link?
NastyNard
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 26
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Arma_
Smash Apprentice
Oh yeah sorry guys lmao. April Fools jokes were in full swing.
Tonight we are having our weekly Smashfest at my house. I'll PM you guys my address in case you want to stop by. Starts at 7PM and runs late. We also usually have food. Hopefully we see you guys tonight!
Edit: Actually, nevermind - who is REALLY going to dig through the St Louis Smashboards thread and care at all about my address? 7907 W Bruno Ave, Richmond Heights, MO 63117.
Tonight we are having our weekly Smashfest at my house. I'll PM you guys my address in case you want to stop by. Starts at 7PM and runs late. We also usually have food. Hopefully we see you guys tonight!
Edit: Actually, nevermind - who is REALLY going to dig through the St Louis Smashboards thread and care at all about my address? 7907 W Bruno Ave, Richmond Heights, MO 63117.
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darkatma
Smash Hero
You say that now 
6 years later someone will drop by your house via smashboards archives
6 years later someone will drop by your house via smashboards archives
Arma_
Smash Apprentice
If someone shows up 6 years from now at my house due to Smashboards, I will invite them in for a beer.
saladhor
Smash Rookie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYgclPYxqT8&list=PLY7Tq5cfeOW0HtFwBFDQqQWCzU_g4BHU3&index=6
Could someone analyze this match and tell me what to practice? I'm the one who got absolutely destroyed.
Could someone analyze this match and tell me what to practice? I'm the one who got absolutely destroyed.
Arma_
Smash Apprentice
As a heads up to Smash 4 players, the weekly Smashfest I hold at my house will be moved to Wednesday (tomorrow) this week. We are losing a very important Smasher in our community to Austin (god dammit Texas!) so things have been rescheduled so he may attend and we may tell him goodbye. 
NastyNard
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 26
From what I saw, your biggest problem was recovery and trying to get back on stage from the edge. You've got to remember to ALWAYS recover low against Marth (everyone really), because if you pop up above the stage even a little bit you're basically dead. You can also work on mixing up your recovery timing by changing up when you double jump and up-b. That way, it's a little harder for your opponent to get a read on what you're going to do, which Marth kinda needs since his recovery is pretty ass.
Also, you could definitely work on increasing your overall comfort level on the edge. My goal against Marth is to make him respect my options from the ledge to the point to where he's afraid to challenge me. Now, as a Sheik main that's going to be a lot easier for me, but my point is that if you can do that you've already half-way won because Marth thrives on zoning you out next to the ledge. Basically, to accomplish you've got to keep in mind all of your options - refresh invincibility/stall, roll, getup, getup-attack, wavedash onto stage, and using an invincible aerial. Jumping straight up from the ledge is not a real option, though, because it's easily punishable and puts you into a heavily disadvantageous situation (@00:25 you tried it and he immediately punished you - so dooooooooon't do it lol). Although the marth on the stage can cover any of your options if he knows they're coming, you've got to mix it up enough to where he can't get a read on you. Being unpredictable is key.
As far as the neutral goes, work on approaching more safely. I noticed you did some fullhop fairs and things like that, and that's just not going to work against a good player. Fairs in general are actual not very safe (from what I've heard) so try to be more grounded in general, and definitely shffl your aerials when you do decide to use them.
Techskill-wise, I would rank your needs like this:
1. SHFFLing aerials
2. Out of sheild (Oos) options - such as WD Oos, up-b, fair...etc. This stuff is actually crazy important and gets overlooked a lot, especially WD Oos.
3. Invincible Ledgedash
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saladhor
Smash Rookie
Thanks dude, I'll work on all of this.