SSBWU/3DS Luigi Chain Grab (Patched)

Will this make Luigi's potential far better?


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Dire Creeper

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#1
So I was surfing on the internet and discovered that Sheik can chain grab with her down throw and up air. It had me thinking if Luigi could do something like this since I'm a Luigi main and that he not be so bad in the latest Smash game. I was basically desperate to find ways to make Luigi's potential far better. I found something incredible - thanks to his new down throw, the new placement of his down air spike hitbox and his better grab, Luigi can chain grab all characters (except Bowser) with his down throw and down air.

Luigi's new down throw has far lower knockback than before, making it possibly one of the best combo starters in the game. Luigi's down air is now easier to land the spike hitbox. The hitbox is now located closer to his ankles rather than his hips. If you follow up a down throw with a down air spike at low percentages, the opponent will fall straight down but not slam to the ground until around 70% depending on its weight. You can tell that you spike beforehand by looking for longer than usual hitstun (caused by the spike hitbox). It's at this moment that you IMMEDIATELY fast-fall and re-grab as soon as you land on the ground.

To summarize things, here's how it works:

1. Down throw.
2. Short hop.
3. Down air spike.
4. Fast-fall immediately and re-grab.

Here's a couple of GIFs of the chain-grab. Note: All the opponents below start at 0%.





Luigi can fully perform this chain grab on most characters to 65-75%. Some characters require you to wait a little bit before you jump to spike, such as Pit, Dark Pit, Villager and Sonic. The hardest characters to perform it on (aka characters that can only be grabbed once or twice) are Mario, Luigi, Peach, Dr. Mario, Kirby and Jigglypuff, although you can still use the second grab to start off a normal combo. The rest of the roster can be grabbed about three to four times, such as Rosalina. R.O.B. can be fully chain grabbed, but the fifth and final spike requires you to do a full hop. Bowser is the only character who cannot be chain grabbed.

The same method with a full hop allows Luigi to use this as a finisher near the ledge, as show below. Obviously, this can work on all characters. Note: These opponents start at around 100% or above.







Experiment on each character about what percentages you can perform this on, how long, and when to spike each time (early or late?). The best way to practice this is in Training Mode.

I hope you've enjoyed reading my findings. Please leave a comment if you have one.
 

BlueBirdE

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#5
I like the idea and follow up! I've worked on some frame trap tech when I hit the spike and they bounce but I never thought about regrabbing when they dont bounce off the floor. I will take this tech for a spin when I get a chance and let you know how it goes.
 

Dire Creeper

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#6
I like the idea and follow up! I've worked on some frame trap tech when I hit the spike and they bounce but I never thought about regrabbing when they dont bounce off the floor. I will take this tech for a spin when I get a chance and let you know how it goes.
Thanks! What makes the chain grab so useful is that it can't be teched until around 65-75%, which is when the opponent would slam into the ground.
 

Yonder

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#7
Now this is pretty cool! But I find this will be extremely difficult to pull off consistently. There are a lot of different factors at play such as character, fast fall reaction, and of course landing the D spike every single time [It's easier yes, but not 100% guaranteed an all]

So yeah, I don't know if this will make Luigi FAR better or not, but a tad.

My question is, can the end of the chaingrab be finished off with an Up B or F smash? Seriously, if we can end it at 85% into a grounded Up B or Down/up tilted F smash...that's a 0 death.
 

GreenFlame

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#8
Guys, don't let this come to the attention of N i n t e n d O. Sakurai removed chaingrabs, so if he finds out about this he'll probably patch it out :(.

Really nice find though. I was testing out potential follow-ups from d-throw to d-air, but all that ever occured to me was another d-air meteor from the first one. I never thought you'd be able to grab.


Have you found out if it's actually escapable at all when pulled off perfectly?
 

Yonder

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#9
Guys, don't let this come to the attention of N i n t e n d O. Sakurai removed chaingrabs, so if he finds out about this he'll probably patch it out :(.

Really nice find though. I was testing out potential follow-ups from d-throw to d-air, but all that ever occured to me was another d-air meteor from the first one. I never thought you'd be able to grab.


Have you found out if it's actually escapable at all when pulled off perfectly?
Worst part is, he'd do it by screwing with the D throw properties. Oh god if he nerfed Luigi's D throw...I don't know what I would do.

I wouldn't want this to be patched though. It's not like Luigi is OP, let him have his fun. A chaingrab for him is a first!
 

GreenFlame

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#10
Worst part is, he'd do it by screwing with the D throw properties. Oh god if he nerfed Luigi's D throw...I don't know what I would do.

I wouldn't want this to be patched though. It's not like Luigi is OP, let him have his fun. A chaingrab for him is a first!
I agree with you, but Sakurai can be really mean. This simple chaingrab could change Luigi's game to be better than ever. Thing about Sakutroll, though, is that he'd probably see it as unfair because it's inescapable, which is why he got rid of chaingrabs in the first place.

Please, Sakurai, let us keep this chaingrab. Please!
But if you must get rid of it, PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE HIS D-THROW SAKURAAAAAAIIII!
 

Yonder

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#11
Oh, is this able to be done well on the 3DS version?

Cause I can't get it down at all...
 

Dire Creeper

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#12
Now this is pretty cool! But I find this will be extremely difficult to pull off consistently. There are a lot of different factors at play such as character, fast fall reaction, and of course landing the D spike every single time [It's easier yes, but not 100% guaranteed an all]

So yeah, I don't know if this will make Luigi FAR better or not, but a tad.

My question is, can the end of the chaingrab be finished off with an Up B or F smash? Seriously, if we can end it at 85% into a grounded Up B or Down/up tilted F smash...that's a 0 death.
I once performed the chain grab on Ganondorf to 75% and KO'd him with a Jab Reset to Up B, so yes, this could be a 0% death on a few characters. If you're hoping to land a forward smash, the only time to do this is when the opponent slams into the ground and doesn't tech. I've noticed it has different effects on the same characters between the 3DS version and the Wii U version, for example, Bowser can't be chained at all in the 3DS, but you're able to do it once in the Wii U version. Personally, I feel that it's easier to perform in the 3DS version.
 

Dire Creeper

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#13
Oh, is this able to be done well on the 3DS version?

Cause I can't get it down at all...
It's actually easier to perform in the 3DS version than the Wii U version; it looks like Luigi's down air is stronger in the Wii U version (his back air is as well).
 

Dire Creeper

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#14
Guys, don't let this come to the attention of N i n t e n d O. Sakurai removed chaingrabs, so if he finds out about this he'll probably patch it out :(.

Really nice find though. I was testing out potential follow-ups from d-throw to d-air, but all that ever occured to me was another d-air meteor from the first one. I never thought you'd be able to grab.


Have you found out if it's actually escapable at all when pulled off perfectly?
I attempted this on multiple Lv. 9's to see if they would air dodge out of it. On certain characters if you perform it fast enough, for example Ike in the 3DS version and C. Falcon in the Wii U version, they won't be able to escape. But if you're required to wait a bit before spiking, it is escapable, but still useful occasionally.

Using this as a finishing move near the ledge of course works on all characters depending on their percentages (around 100% or above), but getting them close enough to the ledge is difficult.
 

Dire Creeper

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#15
I agree with you, but Sakurai can be really mean. This simple chaingrab could change Luigi's game to be better than ever. Thing about Sakutroll, though, is that he'd probably see it as unfair because it's inescapable, which is why he got rid of chaingrabs in the first place.

Please, Sakurai, let us keep this chaingrab. Please!
But if you must get rid of it, PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE HIS D-THROW SAKURAAAAAAIIII!
It's possible to perform this on lots of characters, but only some of those can be chained perfectly. For example, when chaining Pit, there's one point where you have to wait a little before continuing, making it imperfect. But you can always cut it short with other attacks, like Luigi Cyclone, which works great.
 

Dire Creeper

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#16
Worst part is, he'd do it by screwing with the D throw properties. Oh god if he nerfed Luigi's D throw...I don't know what I would do.

I wouldn't want this to be patched though. It's not like Luigi is OP, let him have his fun. A chaingrab for him is a first!
Yeah, this definitely makes Luigi more fearful, but it doesn't make him OP. It's not like Sheik's up air chain grab, which works on all perfectly. Sheik's chain grab is more likely to be nerfed than Luigi's.
 

Swoops

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#19
I am also incredibly worried about this being patched if it's abusable. But I guess we just have to keep on trucking and hold our breaths.

In any case, very sick find and breakdown @ Dire Creeper Dire Creeper . I should be going to an event with some good players either today or Friday. I hope to test this and get some feedback from opponents.
 
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Dire Creeper

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#22
I am also incredibly worried about this being patched if it's abusable. But I guess we just have to keep on trucking and hold our breaths.

In any case, very sick find and breakdown @ Dire Creeper Dire Creeper . I should be going to an event with some good players either today or Friday. I hope to test this and get some feedback from opponents.
The chain grab is very useful, but it's certainly not abusable since it's so hard to pull off. Also thanks and I hope the event goes well for you!
 

BlueBirdE

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#25
Been practicing it in training mode. I find myself sometimes crossing up after the d-air spike. Is there a specific timing you do to consistently stay in the front after landing?
 

Dire Creeper

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#26
Been practicing it in training mode. I find myself sometimes crossing up after the d-air spike. Is there a specific timing you do to consistently stay in the front after landing?
If you do end up behind the opponent, you actually have enough time to turn around and re-grab, but if you want to stay in the front, try controlling which way you fall while you fast-fall. Purposely falling behind the opponent could be useful to fool the opponent in jabbing forward, letting you counter extremely easily.
 
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DiplomatX

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#27
Before you guys go any further with this, I just want to let you know that this is not a legit chain grab. Anyone can get out accept maybe the CPU in training mode........
 

Dire Creeper

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#28
Before you guys go any further with this, I just want to let you know that this is not a legit chain grab. Anyone can get out accept maybe the CPU in training mode........
Yeah, this is very hard to pull off on an actual human, but still can be quite useful when they don't DI. It's like Ganondorf's down throw chain grab on Falco in Melee - very difficult to continue if they DI, but useful if they get caught in it by surprise. Even if it can be esacped, it's still a good alternative way for Luigi to rack up some damage.
 
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lijero13ss

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#29
This is pretty nice find and ca be useful. Like someone above said, not a legit chain grab BUT its not hard to string them together.
Definitely gonna practice this :)
 

Dire Creeper

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#30
This is pretty nice find and ca be useful. Like someone above said, not a legit chain grab BUT its not hard to string them together.
Definitely gonna practice this :)
Thanks! Yeah, it isn't fullproof as a continuous chain grab, but it still comes in handy. Also, start off practicing it on Fox, Falco or Meta Knight.
 
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lijero13ss

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#31
Thanks! Yeah, it isn't fullproof as a continuous chain grab, but it still comes in handy. Also, start off practicing it on Fox, Falco or Meta Knight.
I think unless you can start doing it consistently, DThrow > Fair > Fair/Nair/Uair/Dair will still be the go-to move for racking up damage. What i really liked from this was the ability to spike them when your near the stage. I honestly never tried doing this but it gives us a new way to KO.
 

Dire Creeper

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#32
I think unless you can start doing it consistently, DThrow > Fair > Fair/Nair/Uair/Dair will still be the go-to move for racking up damage. What i really liked from this was the ability to spike them when your near the stage. I honestly never tried doing this but it gives us a new way to KO.
Yeah. Outside of an Up B, misfire or forward smash, this gives Luigi a new option for an early KO.
 

Dire Creeper

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#33
The chain grab obviously does not last forever, as characters who can be fully affected by this will reach a max of 65-75% before slamming into the ground. Here's some ways you can continue the combo:
  • D-Throw > D-air (spike) > N-air: Sends the opponent high into the air, ready to be juggled as long as they don't tech left or right. If you think they will tech, try to Nair after the D-Throw.
  • D-Throw > Cyclone: One of the best options out of the combo. Try to rise with the cyclone as much as you can while you're still landing the hits. This can effectively set the opponent up for a juggle or even KO them at around 160-180% depending on the character.
  • D-Throw > F-air > Fair/Nair/Uair/Dair: Suggested by lijero13ss (Thank you!). Very good if you still need to rack up some damage.
  • D-air (spike) > B-air: Same situation with the N-air combo at the top (make sure they don't tech and bounce off the ground). Very good at setting up an edgeguard since the B-air has above average potential.
  • D-Throw > D-air (spike) > Jab Reset > Up B: A great finisher at around 80%. If the opponent is at lower percentage, you won't have to jab reset in order to land the Up B since they can't tech.
  • D-Throw > D-air (spike) > B-Throw: A great way to set up an edgeguard (or a finisher if the opponent is at a high enough percentage).
  • D-Throw > D-air (spike) > Smash attack: An up smash or down smash works best since they have less start-up lag than the forward smash.
Know any other combos? Give some suggestions!
 
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Swoops

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#38
So I haven't been able to get the DAir to combo from the dthrow at all. There's a definite gap in there that allows for double jump/attack.

I dunno maybe I'm doing it wrong. Do you have a vid with the combo counter or is it just the dair spike > regrab that is inescapable? Seems like at the percent that dair spike starts combining from grab, it starts bouncing them off the ground.
 

Dire Creeper

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#39
So I haven't been able to get the DAir to combo from the dthrow at all. There's a definite gap in there that allows for double jump/attack.

I dunno maybe I'm doing it wrong. Do you have a vid with the combo counter or is it just the dair spike > regrab that is inescapable? Seems like at the percent that dair spike starts combining from grab, it starts bouncing them off the ground.
You have to short hop and D-air at the earliest possible time in order to keep the opponent from jumping or air dodging out, and fast-fall and re-grab as early as possible afte the spike hitstun, which should let you react in time. It also depends on what character you're trying to chain grab. You're able to begin the combo at 0% for all possible characters. Who exactly are you trying to practice this on?
 

Swoops

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#40
You have to short hop and D-air at the earliest possible time in order to keep the opponent from jumping or air dodging out, and fast-fall and re-grab as early as possible afte the spike hitstun, which should let you react in time. It also depends on what character you're trying to chain grab. You're able to begin the combo at 0% for all possible characters. Who exactly are you trying to practice this on?
Was practicing on Metaknight and ZSS.

But I will hit the lab again. It seems like it's just very tight timing + prediction of their DI then. This makes me a little more confident that nothing will be patched. Definitely seems useful still, as you can always bait the airdodge/attack for a free usmash or something heavier like grounded UpB. Just not an OP gamebreaker.
 
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