Q&A SSBU Mechanics & Techniques General

[Artmastercorey]

I might be mistaken but it seems you no longer get many invincibility frames when trying to get up from the ledge. Like for example if your facing Richter and he used holy water on the ledge , a lasting hitbox. What exactly can you do? You dont get up invincibility like you used to, cant jump over because no invincibility frames, cant do normal get up either. It just seems ledge options /defensive options (like even air dodging to your death for example) are limited in this rendition of smash. Or is there something im missing?

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I was labbing pummels earlier and sometimes I'm able to pummel a little faster than usual. I have no idea what's going on, I tried different variables but nothing seems to be the culprit. Does anyone know about this or at least experience it?

 

[d.dukat]

So, for Smash games from Melee to 4, the functional formula for finding knockback values is:
((((((p+10)+(p*d/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*s)+b)*r

where
p = percent after attack
d = damage that attack dealt (+0.7x of staleness/freshness)
w = weight (100 if move is weight-independent)
s = knockback growth/100
b = base knockback
r = ratio including rage, crouch-cancel effects, and stale-move negation

Is there such an equation on the way for Smash Ultimate? If so, does anyone have a start on finding it/have a robust equation?

 

[Madison Turner]

Does anyone know the benefits of short hopping regularly instead of doing Attack + Jump?

Attack + Jump performs a rising aerial. With a regular short hop, you could perform a falling aerial by hitting the aerial & then fast falling. For a lot of the shorter characters, the rising aerial will wiff above their heads, while the falling aerial would make contact.

 

[Coccinelle]

Attack + Jump performs a rising aerial. With a regular short hop, you could perform a falling aerial by hitting the aerial & then fast falling. For a lot of the shorter characters, the rising aerial will wiff above their heads, while the falling aerial would make contact.

I find short hop extremely difficult to perform and mostly rely on attack+jump. That is a pity because I feel like I have less option doing this and my main character Wolf has great aerials. Am I alone to struggle with that?

 

[Zonderion]

I find short hop extremely difficult to perform and mostly rely on attack+jump. That is a pity because I feel like I have less option doing this and my main character Wolf has great aerials. Am I alone to struggle with that?

You are not alone. Many new comers struggle with short hopping. It's all about timing and releasing the jump button while your character is still in their jump squat animation. Characters with longer jump squat animations are typically easier to short hop with.

My suggestion is to just practice. You can go into training mode and reduce the speed to get started. Once you get it down, put it on normal speed and then attempt 30 short hops in a row. Once you have that start adding aerials. Then try to incorporate it into an actual match. This is what you'll find to be the most difficult.

Eventually with time, your muscle memory will take over and you want even have to think about it.

 

[Lavani]

Several questions:

- How does staling work with Pokemon Trainer? Do attacks stale by input, or by the specific attack? Does the queue reset on switching, or perhaps does each mon have its own separate queue saved?
- How many frames are Nana's inputs delayed by relative to Popo?
- Does Nana have any sort of scaling applied to her shieldstun?
- Smash attacks can be attack canceled, but I've heard Luma won't use smash attacks if attack canceled, despite using jabs/tilts/DA. Is this true? If yes, is it also interrupted from smash attacks by Rosa getting hit?
- Is ledge invuln duration handled differently from Smash 4?

 

[Thinkaman]

- How does staling work with Pokemon Trainer? Do attacks stale by input, or by the specific attack? Does the queue reset on switching, or perhaps does each mon have its own separate queue saved?

Stale moves is based on input. While I am 99% sure Pokemon Change cleared the queue in Brawl, it does not in Ultimate. Squirtle jab will stale Ivysaur jab, ect.

- How many frames are Nana's inputs delayed by relative to Popo?

6 frames.

 

[Ryankiller5]

does anyone else know about instant-dash-jump?
performed by inputting jump, then a dash in either direction during jump-squat. The dash does not turn you around, but just gives you dash-jump aerial speed.
This can be used to perform instant RARs, and even move MUCH further out of shield.
I have found this to be very strong for punishing characters that try to space aerials on shield, because now you can travel much further with jump OOS.

 

[Rizen]

A commentator said 'spike moves put you in a different blast zone so the character doing the spiking always dies last'. Is that true? It explains why Chrom's upB always seems to kill him last. Are there spike cancels in this game?

 

[Madison Turner]

A commentator said 'spike moves put you in a different blast zone so the character doing the spiking always dies last'. Is that true? It explains why Chrom's upB always seems to kill him last. Are there spike cancels in this game?

That's pretty much how it was explained to me. If the character is in a "helpless" state from being spiked, they die in the closer blast zone. This is apparently why a move like Chrom's Up-B will kill the opponent first, but a move like Ganondorf's Side-B will kill Ganondorf first. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how someone explained it to me at a smash event.

 

[Lavani]

I saw Cloud die first using his upB to spike at low percents yesterday, so it doesn't seem to follow that rule

I haven't seen any hard data provided on how it works. My current theory is it's based on launch speed, possibly the same as untechables (if launch speed = 6, use bottom of screen as blast zone instead)

 

[Swaggy-G]

New Shulk technique:

 

[MG_3989]

I posted this in general but I think it might fit better here

So I pretty much have my tech game down except for SHFF aerials. I can do them but I’m inconsistent and sometimes have a hard time stringing them together. Does anyone know any helpful drills or practice that will help with this? I picked up Wolf as a possible secondary and I’m having trouble with some of his combos because he’s already a fast faller and stringing fast fall aerials together is difficult for me with him because of how fast he already falls. Any drills or practice you guys recommend? It would be greatly appreciated

 

[Masonomace]

So I'm not sure if this is common knowledge(?), but apparently successful footstooling provides an intangible window from frame 9-12. If you attempt footstooling someone shielding, you'll get the phantom footstool and that provides intangibility on frame 1-4. I feel like if Luigi player or someone else that makes a thread about Invincibility listings, that would be fine to go there.

 

[Lavani]

Ultimate seems to have at least one new special launch angle. I've found 368° hitboxes on the first hits of Mewtwo/Charizard usmash and the first two hits of Duck Hunt usmash. I'm not sure exactly how it functions, but I'm guessing it's an autolink that forces a minor set amount of upwards knockback so it can reliably set up into higher hitboxes. Very few attacks actually use it; it isn't found on many other setup hit usmashes like the FE gang, ROB, Shulk, or ZSS, and isn't used in carrying upBs like Mario's (interestingly doesn't use autolinks period anymore) or ZSS's (367° instead of 366° now, which lets the multihits initiate properly against someone standing on a platform).

 

[Green-Omb]

I haven't seen anyone talk about this, but out of curiosity I went into the tips section of the game and one piqued my interest:

"If you dodge on the spot, you can quickly cancel it with an attack."

I did some testing and if I'm not wrong (I'm still inexperienced with labbing and frame counting), you can cancel the last 3 or 5 frames (depends on the character) of your spot dodge with a grounded attack.
This also has to be an attack. Walking/ Dashing, Jumps, grabs or shield cannot cancel the spot dodge.

To be honest, I don't know if this is something new or if this mechanic had already been in previous games. Please correct me if it had been.

Edit: Specials can cancel your spot dodge, as well.

 

[Jehtt]

Does anybody know what the clank threshold in this game is? That is, do attacks still win if they do 9% more than the attack they collide with? Also, does the threshold consider multipliers?

"If you dodge on the spot, you can quickly cancel it with an attack."

Yep, this was known, though I don't think it's common knowledge.

 

[KakuCP9]

Does anyone know if the 2-frame vulnerability of ledge-grabs goes away if a character snaps the ledge either above or level with the stage like in Smash 4 or does the vulnerability persist no matter where you grab the ledge?

 

[Lavani]

Does anyone know if the 2-frame vulnerability of ledge-grabs goes away if a character snaps the ledge either above or level with the stage like in Smash 4 or does the vulnerability persist no matter where you grab the ledge?

It's still gone with high snaps, same as 4. Since training shows intangibility and has frame-by-frame you can actually see it now for practicing angles, too.

 

[SoySauS]

How the heck do i grab edge from stage in this game

 

[ande]

How the heck do i grab edge from stage in this game

Run off stage and the moment you leave it, hold towards the ledge.

Its faster, if you fastfall as soon as you leave the stage.
You just need to do quick halfcircular motion back towards the ledge.

 

[Lunardog15]

has anyone found something for Kirby mains?

 

[BuddyBaker52]

I saw a really cool link combo (n.air to b.air to f.smash) and I tried learning it made me realize I have no idea how it works. I'm new to the game, but I understand how to to b.airs from a dash, I just don't understand how to do it from fast fall. Also if this isn't the correct place to post this question my bad

 

[ASAP_Smash]

Hi, I think I’ve made an amazing break through with tap jump. More combos, better aerials, and pivot footstools...

 

[player56]

I love supermario, because it is the best game ever

 

[Shaya]

So I've been figuratively pulling my hair out over this, tried 100 different variations but consistently get the same result.

The b-reverse wavebounce neutral special technique, which according to my smash corner is
Holding Forward + Jump into Diagonal Opposite Direction C-Stick+Special should do the above.

No matter what I do, all it does is a generic b-reverse.
If I do the exact same inputs in frame advance, it will do the b-reverse wavebounce, but in regular speed, it's always just a b-reverse. If i was messing up the c-stick + special input i'd be getting a back air or a different special (down or side), so with that in mind I have no idea what I'm doing "wrong".

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So I've been figuratively pulling my hair out over this, tried 100 different variations but consistently get the same result.

The b-reverse wavebounce neutral special technique, which according to my smash corner is
Holding Forward + Jump into Diagonal Opposite Direction C-Stick+Special should do the above.

No matter what I do, all it does is a generic b-reverse.
If I do the exact same inputs in frame advance, it will do the b-reverse wavebounce, but in regular speed, it's always just a b-reverse. If i was messing up the c-stick + special input i'd be getting a back air or a different special (down or side), so with that in mind I have no idea what I'm doing "wrong".

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

https://twitter.com/FoxIsOD/status/1099600354906275840

 

[Xelrog]

So this happened to me and I think I know why, but I want to be sure. I read that the duration of the stun after a shield break is dependent on the power of the move that broke the shield. Is that a new mechanic to Ultimate, and does it mean that a Mr. Saturn break like the above can be acted out of almost immediately because of its meager damage?

 

[ande]

So this happened to me and I think I know why, but I want to be sure. I read that the duration of the stun after a shield break is dependent on the power of the move that broke the shield. Is that a new mechanic to Ultimate, and does it mean that a Mr. Saturn break like the above can be acted out of almost immediately because of its meager damage?

If you push someone of the edge while they're in shield break animation, they're instantly able to act.

 

[Xelrog]

Is that so? Well, I guess that's preferable to me than Mr. Saturn being useless. I'll miss shoving people off, though.

Thanks.

 

[NShade]

How/When to SDI vs Daisy

was supposed to be finished right after Genesis 6 , based off my favorite set MKLeo vs Samsora

We all know Daisy is easily top 3 in the game, but let's start finding out what can we VS her!

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Can these two links be added?

https://smashboards.com/threads/all-about-stick-sensitivity.466696/#post-22873504

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-dictionary.374538/

Edit: How does SDI work in Ult? I've heard that there is auto-SDI if you hold a direction and I have noticed it when I've have done it vs Ness's PK Fire and Little Mac's rapid jab.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Edit: Double post.

 

[KakuCP9]

I was wondering if anyone knew if items are easier to catch in this game or if catching them is the same as other games.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I know that you can use tilt attacks to grab items. I think this was explained in an Izaw video. I know that using tilts increases your grab range.

 

[Lavani]

It seems advancing pivot grabs are a possibility in Ultimate's engine:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The user describes the inputs as follows:

1. Dash forward
2. Dash backward
3. Immediately after dashing backward, cstick forward+grab

As an aside, this was somewhat possible in Smash 4 as well, but it wasn't doable in a way that would preserve forward momentum:

My assumption is the loss of perfect pivoting enables the pivot grab to be performed 1~2 frames sooner in Ultimate, allowing one to avoid the loss of forward momentum. This seems like a good tool for characters with good pivot grabs and initial dashes, at any rate.

 

[Joqu73]

I stumbled upon a something weird. I don't know if this is already known, but if you are in a wall cling and you move the joystick away from the wall you do a wall jump and cannot wall jump on the same wall again, but if you press y or x while in the wall cling you can wall jump on the same wall again.

 

[KakuCP9]

Couple questions about usmashes. Is it still possible to do a reverse usmash for characters like Mario and Ridley and how difficult is it to do?

 

[Masonomace]

Question:

What are all the moves in SUltimate that have both smash inputs(hard toss aka) vs soft inputs?

One example of this is 's Green Missile. Another being SideB's that are hard tossed like 's Boomerang or 's Cross.