SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[VermilionBird]

All Im getting from this is that we should expect to see Ike, Roy and/or Chrom confirmed; something we already know is going to happen

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Fact of the matter is, that the only characters that can debunk the Sal Romano leak are the ones he included. They can only debunk it if they are in the game as something other than playable.

Most of the characters in the Sal Romano leak, (Pac Man, Chrom, Palutena to name a few) are fairly common picks, and good picks at that if you're looking at probability. That is neither here nor there in terms of the legitimacy. There WILL be a few characters that actually were expected. If they don't make it believable, I don't know what would. The entire roster isn't going to be strange choices. There is no problem with Palutena, Chrom, Shulk, Pac-Man, etc...

The Chorus Men are the biggest anomaly of the leak, but that doesn't make it fake. If they are revealed as an Assist Trophy, then yes, the leak will be fake. However, if they're playable? There is hardly a shadow of a doubt that it's real.

That's literally all there is to it. We can't pick it apart without more information. As of right now, it's up in the air, could be real, could be fake. However, if the Chorus Men or Marshal is a character in Smash Bros 4, it's pretty much real.

I couldn't agree more. Even though I am kind of getting tired of more "curveball" characters after those we already have had, none of that matters.The fate of the Chorus Men/Marshal/Whatever characters is what would seal the deal on the legitimacy of this leak. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Duster72]

I know smashboards hides long messages but I'm just snipping all of this omg

I agree that Ike has a lot more popularity than people give him credit for. Ike is the second most-frequent protagonist of FE, starring in two games and getting multiple references in Awakening, the newest game, not to mention his descendant appearing as free DLC.

But, I'm really sorry… this isn't the place to discuss that at all, much less so in-detail. This thread's been derailed for days, and you're not helping. You look to be pretty new to the forums (much like me) but I'd personally try posting that in the Unconfirmed Smash Veterans thread.

 

[TheAnvil]

It really does bother me that people are pretty much randomly assuming that Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone. ZSS, Sheik and Toon Link all indicate that Sakurai is bringing back the entire Brawl cast otherwise those 3 would undoubtedly be the first to go. Especially now that Ridley is basically all-but-confirmed they don't need to pad the Metroid reps out with a second Samus.

Brawl had 6 pokemon reps, and had 2 more planned. So out of the 46 character roster that was planned for Brawl, 8 of them were to be pokemon reps. We're probably getting around 50 this time, and the 6 Brawl reps + Greninja and Mewtwo is pretty much the perfect pokemon representation right now. The fact that Greninja plays nothing like Squirtle and that they weren't shown as pokeballs indicates more strongly that they're returning. And the fact that Charizard was revealed first doesn't mean anything really, Zelda and Samus were revealed months and months before Sheik and ZSS. And with 4 starting pokemon already, I'm pretty sure that Jigglypuff and the rest would all be unlockables -- Therefore not announced until after release.

I'm not saying that they're 100% in, but it's more likely than not that they are. We have nothing to suggest as of now that those two characters are getting the ax.

Snake's obviously a little different because of licensing, he's the only one IMO who has a shot at disappearing. And I find him an unlikely cut too.

----- About Fire Emblem getting 3 reps.

The first 3 @Kokusho paragraphs above are a great explanation as to why Ike will probably stay, it doesn't make sense to cut a more unique character for one that would either play more like Marth, or just take Ike's moveset (which doesn't even really fit him in the first place).

Several RPG sword users seem to be on a lot of people's lists but *3rd FE rep/Shulk/Isaac all fit the same mold, and even though they wouldn't be clones of eachother, they all fill the same slot really. With Isaac missing from the direct I would lean towards him being the one who wins out, especially with Marth linked to Awakening on the smash bros site (easily explaining that the Awakening stage would be his). That's if any of them are included, we aren't exactly starved for sword users on Smash. The 3rd FE rep has the least potential to be unique and is already represented more than it needs to be.

I know this is technically not leak related, but indirectly it is.

 

[Wolfie557]

sakurai chooses mostly on uniqueness and what he thinks will be a great moveset to add variety.......

 

[Duster72]

It really does bother me that people are pretty much randomly assuming that Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone. ZSS, Sheik and Toon Link all indicate that Sakurai is bringing back the entire Brawl cast otherwise those 3 would undoubtedly be the first to go. Especially now that Ridley is basically all-but-confirmed they don't need to pad the Metroid reps out with a second Samus.

Brawl had 6 pokemon reps, and had 2 more planned. So out of the 46 character roster that was planned for Brawl, 8 of them were to be pokemon reps. We're probably getting around 50 this time, and the 6 Brawl reps + Greninja and Mewtwo is pretty much the perfect pokemon representation right now. The fact that Greninja plays nothing like Squirtle and that they weren't shown as pokeballs indicates more strongly that they're returning. And the fact that Charizard was revealed first doesn't mean anything really, Zelda and Samus were revealed months and months before Sheik and ZSS. And with 4 starting pokemon already, I'm pretty sure that Jigglypuff and the rest would all be unlockables -- Therefore not announced until after release.

I'm not saying that they're 100% in, but it's more likely than not that they are. We have nothing to suggest as of now that those two characters are getting the ax.

Snake's obviously a little different because of licensing, he's the only one IMO who has a shot at disappearing. And I find him an unlikely cut too.

----- About Fire Emblem getting 3 reps.

The first 3 @Kokusho paragraphs above are a great explanation as to why Ike will probably stay, it doesn't make sense to cut a more unique character for one that would either play more like Marth, or just take Ike's moveset (which doesn't even really fit him in the first place).

Several RPG sword users seem to be on a lot of people's lists but *3rd FE rep/Shulk/Isaac all fit the same mold, and even though they wouldn't be clones of eachother, they all fill the same slot really. With Isaac missing from the direct I would lean towards him being the one who wins out, especially with Marth linked to Awakening on the smash bros site (easily explaining that the Awakening stage would be his). That's if any of them are included, we aren't exactly starved for sword users on Smash. The 3rd FE rep has the least potential to be unique and is already represented more than it needs to be.

I know this is technically not leak related, but indirectly it is.

I'm sorry, but what on Earth are you talking about? ZSS and Sheik would absolutely not be the first to go. They are unique characters with unique movesets, as well as fan favorites. Ridley is also far from confirmed, unless you mean "confirmed to appear in the game in some form". People are calling Squirtle and Ivysaur confirmed cuts because, if they were in the game, it would have made a lot of sense to reveal them alongside Charizard. Also, they are both far less iconic than the aforementioned.

Your biases are also showing if you call "3rd FE rep/Shulk/Isaac" fitting in the same mold, clones or not. 3rd FE rep, if Chrom, would fit the same mold. But could easily be Anna or Tharja, neither of whom are sword users, or Robin, a literal build-your-own FE character. Isaac posses a sword for physically attacking in Golden Sun, but isn't a character you're typically meant to attack with. He's a magic user that summons giant hands and djinni, for god's sake. You played Brawl, right? Shulk is the closest you come to a "sword user", but he also possesses a giant laser sword that casts magic spells and can't even hit humans for half the game. I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again: the weapon does not make the character at all. Why aren't more people weighing newcomers by the ones that use their fists to fight?

EDIT: You know, I'm still baffled, but I want to apologize for this post. Only because I literally called someone out for derailing the conversation minutes before I posted this. Not that this thread is even on rails anymore… Sigh. *waits for the next leak and sincerely hope it's not painfully faked*

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

sakurai chooses mostly on uniqueness and what he thinks will be a great moveset to add variety.......

Are you ignoring market testing, name-brand recognition, and collaboration with other departments and team members?

 

[PLATINUM7]

sakurai chooses mostly on uniqueness and what he thinks will be a great moveset to add variety.......

Seems that way, but unless you can read his mind for all we know he just picks names out of a hat.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Really? Sounds like they said, "we want Mac... what do we do with him?" And had to get creative. In that case, the character preceeded the moveset.

 

[Duster72]

Seems that way, but unless you can read his mind for all we know he just picks names out of a hat.

Little Mac was chosen because fans wanted him. @Ryuutakeshi: They absolutely had to get creative with him to make him work; Sakurai even mentioned that in the Direct. Wii Fit Trainer was chosen as a joke character inspired by the recognition and sales Wii Fit has accumulated. Rosalina was chosen because she's a fan favorite among younger Nintendo fans, and the Super Mario Galaxy games are easily unique enough to inspire a moveset of their own, without interfering with Mario's. Some characters, like Ness and Pit, were chosen because Sakurai favored them over others. That doesn't make their inclusion out of nowhere. They're both characters that gained immense popularity from Super Smash Bros, and Ness was certainly relevant at the time of his addition. It's a marketing move, if nothing else. R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch were chosen to celebrate Nintendo's rich history.

Let's all pretend Sakurai is a smart man that knows what he's doing and at least talk about the Sal leak again, if nothing else.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Little Mac was chosen because fans wanted him. @Ryuutakeshi: They absolutely had to get creative with him to make him work; Sakurai even mentioned that in the Direct. Wii Fit Trainer was chosen as a joke character inspired by the recognition and sales Wii Fit has accumulated. Rosalina was chosen because she's a fan favorite among younger Nintendo fans, and the Super Mario Galaxy games are easily unique enough to inspire a moveset of their own, without interfering with Mario's. Some characters, like Ness and Pit, were chosen because Sakurai favored them over others. That doesn't make their inclusion out of nowhere. They're both characters that gained immense popularity from Super Smash Bros., if anything. R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch were chosen to celebrate Nintendo's rich history.

Let's all pretend Sakurai is a smart man that knows what he's doing and at least talk about the Sal leak again, if nothing else.

I wasn't really being serious with that post.

 

[Wolfie557]

Are you ignoring market testing, name-brand recognition, and collaboration with other departments and team members?

no but that's the main things he looks for. of course when it comes to 3rd parties......fire emblem and pokemon and what not they speak to the owners too.
its a big discussion ok.

 

[Duster72]

I wasn't really being serious with that post.

I could gather. I'm not mad at you or anything. I guess I just wanted to throw that all out there before misinformation got spread. And I really don't want to waste the mods' time and have them step in because this is becoming a general discussion thread about likelihood of random characters.

no but that's the main things he looks for. of course when it comes to 3rd parties......fire emblem and pokemon and what not they speak to the owners too.
its a big discussion ok.

Fire Emblem is 100% first-party, and Pokémon is a collaboration between GameFreak, Nintendo, and some subsidiaries of Nintendo. All characters are owned by the Pokémon Company, which is directly affiliated with Nintendo. Pokémon games will never be non-Nintendo. What the hell are you smoking?

 

[PLATINUM7]

I could gather. I'm not mad at you or anything. I guess I just wanted to throw that all out there before misinformation got spread. And I really don't want to waste the mods' time and have them step in because this is becoming a general discussion thread about likelihood of random characters.


Fire Emblem is 100% first-party, and Pokémon is a collaboration between GameFreak, Nintendo, and some subsidiaries of Nintendo. All characters are owned by the Pokémon Company, which is directly affiliated with Nintendo. Pokémon games will never be non-Nintendo. What the hell are you smoking?

there would at least be discussions with Intelligent systems and Game Freak about who to include.

EDIT: Double checked, Intelligent Systems is first party

 

[Wolfie557]

I could gather. I'm not mad at you or anything. I guess I just wanted to throw that all out there before misinformation got spread. And I really don't want to waste the mods' time and have them step in because this is becoming a general discussion thread about likelihood of random characters.


Fire Emblem is 100% first-party, and Pokémon is a collaboration between GameFreak, Nintendo, and some subsidiaries of Nintendo. All characters are owned by the Pokémon Company, which is directly affiliated with Nintendo. Pokémon games will never be non-Nintendo. What the hell are you smoking?

-_- they talk WITH the pokemon company to see what they would likebut sakurai and his team gets the final word onwho gets in and what and whos in pokeballs.

intelligent systmes I belive are the ones behind fe.....and sakurai talks with them too. in fact he was actually going to choose someone else for melee (forgot name. not into the series) but went with roy instead after they said they would like him in there since he is recent....and sakurai probably liked the idea.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

They picked Roy to promote the upcoming Sword of Seals.

 

[Radical Bones]

-_- they talk WITH the pokemon company to see what they would likebut sakurai and his team gets the final word onwho gets in and what and whos in pokeballs.

I don't think Sakurai gets the final say at all. The Pokemon Company own the Pokemon. Sakurai can't just use them without their permission.

 

[SmashChu]

1.) People have contacted Sal numerous times and it's quite obvious that at this point he's getting his information through email, not his butt. Of course he can't give us the email itself or the other guy's information otherwise he would be in serious danger. Leaking information is not a game, it's very serious especially for a game like this.There is something that can prove it's legitimacy (to me, that is). Of the only newcomers that were shown at E3, the ones that were shown, were revealed in perfect correlation with how they were placed in his post. Villager, MegaMan, and then WFT. That's definitely not lucky to me and could not have been a guess, especially among the other newcomers as well. As someone has said, it's true. Anyone could have guessed those characters with precise thinking.However, Guessing all of them together and in the order they would be revealed in between the ones that weren't revealed is plain eerie and is an entirely different story. And who knows, maybe that guy on 4chan did have information. We just don't know and never will. Nothing is set in stone.

2.) Sal's source has already realized he was wrong, as has accepted it. And no, he has not said something like "it was a mistake", or that "maybe they got rid of the characters, or they were cut". He's simply said they were still on there way. Even in regards to the direct, he said they were still on there way as if he knew they would not appear in the direct and that one of the other leaked newcomers would. This is clearing in the leaks favor, credibility wise. He is still sure that Pac-Man and Mii are in the game. This leak is not like every other leak.

3.) Point is, he was correct either way. Greninja falls under "Pokemon from X and Y" and there not much else we can do about it except be skeptical. And no, not some random pokemon from the 70 was going to get chosen. Only some of those pokemon had the potential to be chose espescially with gamefreak having a hand in it. Sakurai does not pick random pokemon, he picks the most promotional and popular ones. It wasn't as vague as some people think. There are not that many pokemon that fall under what both GameFreak and Sakurai are looking for, especially ones that originated from the Kalos Region (X and Y). You can even read about that here. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...-time-bring-back-entire-smash-roster-wii-3ds/
I also would not bring up the fact that just because a character is not shown off even if it could of been at a perfect time. Just look at what happened to Yoshi, and look how long they held off Little Mac and his stage. Rosalina's "stage" was revealed before her as well.

EDIT: And about Mii/Pac-Man. I'd rather not get into that discussion, as Sakurai has proven countless times that he will tease a character to the brim. I'd rather not be a pattern hunter when it comes to reveals especially when it comes to that man. In regards to Pac-Man, the item is not entirely related to Pac-Man himself. It just gives more evidence that Namco Bandai is getting some sort of representation in this game. That item was shown off in two pictures that weren't even in the Direct. That does not warrant an entire character reveal. Even though both of Mii's stages haven been shown, that says nothing for his character. Typically, Rosalina's "stage" was shown off before her and so was Mac's. It was disguised, but it was still Little Mac's stage. If Mii is revealed, he'll be shown off in those stages and other's even if they were already revealed.

And also, Sal has contacted his source. Probably numerous times actually. He's said that his source is a very busy man and is hard to get in touch with and doesn't reply. The source comes right before a big event, which would make sense based on a hint CAW evolution gave us.

The problem with all of what you said is the fact that it doesn't disprove the alternative. Your points are rationals for why they could be true, but it does not prove enough concrete evidence that he isn't just making it up. Again, the alternative is he made a lucky guess and got the others right. I'm not going to go into specifics on what you said because the same answer comes up: It also could be just as likely that he is making it all up. Again, you have to throw out the alternative all together. You can't rationalize it. You have to outright disprove it.
On #1, you are using the Texas Sharpshooter fallicy. He guessed them! He must know something. Again, there is nothing to prove that. He didn't get them in order either because Rosalina came next which he never said.

On #3, he said a broad category and not a specific character. This is confirmation bias at work here because you see it as "He knew Greninja," when in fact he gave a very broad category and someone was picked from that category. He was not very specific, and likely for that reason I stated: if he made it all up and didn't want to be caught, you'd expose yourself to a lot of risk by saying a specific Pokemon which has numerous potential characters.

 

[Duster72]

there would at least be discussions with Intelligent systems and Game Freak about who to include.

EDIT: Double checked, Intelligent Systems is first party

Indeed it is. Intelligent Systems is a very old subsidiary of Nintendo. Game Freak and TPC are directly affiliated with Nintendo through strict contract and could be considered first-party in a very loose, non-business degree. i.e. They're second-party, but there's no way either could be bought out Rareware-style. There's absolutely contact between many, many divisions when constructing a game as inclusive and popular as Smash Bros though, I'm not denying that. But they're not third-party. That's it.

-_- they talk WITH the pokemon company to see what they would likebut sakurai and his team gets the final word onwho gets in and what and whos in pokeballs.

intelligent systmes I belive are the ones behind fe.....and sakurai talks with them too. in fact he was actually going to choose someone else for melee (forgot name. not into the series) but went with roy instead after they said they would like him in there since he is recent....and sakurai probably liked the idea.

I actually would presume The Pokémon Company gets the final say. Or rather, if Sakurai and his team wants to include a character they don't want, they can veto it, and that's that. Intelligent Systems, Game Freak, Creatures Inc., and The Pokémon Company. None of them are third-party, and that's the only point I was trying to make. I didn't mean to cause such an uproar.

NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT LEAKS.

 

[Miffa]

I don't think Sakurai gets the final say at all. The Pokemon Company own the Pokemon. Sakurai can't just use them without their permission.

wait Nintendo down own Pokemon?

 

[PLATINUM7]

wait Nintendo down own Pokemon?

They own a large percentage of it. The three owners of it are Game Freak, Pokemon and IIRC Creatures

 

[8-peacock-8]

wait Nintendo down own Pokemon?

The Pokemon Company/GameFreak/Any other company related to Pokemon is Second Party.

So not full control.

 

[PLATINUM7]

According to Bulbapedia, Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures each own a third of the Pokemon franchise.

 

[TheAnvil]

I'm sorry, but what on Earth are you talking about? ZSS and Sheik would absolutely not be the first to go. They are unique characters with unique movesets, as well as fan favorites. Ridley is also far from confirmed, unless you mean "confirmed to appear in the game in some form". People are calling Squirtle and Ivysaur confirmed cuts because, if they were in the game, it would have made a lot of sense to reveal them alongside Charizard. Also, they are both far less iconic than the aforementioned.

Your biases are also showing if you call "3rd FE rep/Shulk/Isaac" fitting in the same mold, clones or not. 3rd FE rep, if Chrom, would fit the same mold. But could easily be Anna or Tharja, neither of whom are sword users, or Robin, a literal build-your-own FE character. Isaac posses a sword for physically attacking in Golden Sun, but isn't a character you're typically meant to attack with. He's a magic user that summons giant hands and djinni, for god's sake. You played Brawl, right? Shulk is the closest you come to a "sword user", but he also possesses a giant laser sword that casts magic spells and can't even hit humans for half the game. I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again: the weapon does not make the character at all. Why aren't more people weighing newcomers by the ones that use their fists to fight?

EDIT: You know, I'm still baffled, but I want to apologize for this post. Only because I literally called someone out for derailing the conversation minutes before I posted this. Not that this thread is even on rails anymore… Sigh. *waits for the next leak and sincerely hope it's not painfully faked*

You've brought up a lot of points here so I'll just respond through bullet points.
- Squirtle and Ivysaur are also unique characters with unique movesets. But you don't think the characters that are generally seen as being the same actual character (IE essentially Dr Mario to regular Mario) as others that are in would get the ax before any other character? You know, ones that are completely unique?
- I don't want to argue too much over Ridley, I'm not even a fan particularly. But it's pretty clear after the direct that he's in, Sakurai is a troll, not a douche. He wouldn't tease people like that if Ridley wasn't playable, and furthermore, the shadow clearly showed a character that was being controlled by a human. Unless Ridley slowly fly's forward, stops and then continues flying forward in the stage. Which doesn't exactly make him a hazard now does it.
- On what planet are Squirtle and Ivysaur not as iconic as Charizard? Yes, Charizard is the most popular (and the most popular pokemon in genera), but he is in no way more iconic than the other starters. The fact that he was revealed before them is moot. There are any number of reasons why they may not have been revealed at the same time. They could be unlockables or Nintendo may not have wanted so much shown off at once (we'd already had 5 new characters announced in a 30 minute timespan). And besides, its not as if Sheik or ZSS were revealed at the same time as Zelda and Samus, by that logic Sheik and ZSS were cut (which clearly they aren't).
- Isaac/Shulk/FE are all niche RPGs, none of them are particularly imporant franchises to Nintendo and they all use the same basic tool -- a sword. A FE character that is not the main lord of the game will never be playable. Sakurai has only ever chosen the most high profile, popular and important characters from their respective series' to represent them as playable characters in Smash. That's why we never saw Shy Guy over Luigi,Bill Grey over Falco, or Lanky over Diddy. Anyone requesting a FE:A character that isn't Chrom (or at a slight push Lucina) is essentially doing the equivalent of requesting Bill Grey from Star Fox. Like I said, they wouldn't be clones, but they'd all be hitting the same exact role in the game. Seeing as how we already have 2 of those characters in Ike and Marth (assuming Ike returns) they aren't overloading the game with many more Niche RPG sword users. The fact that Isaac has other tools at his disposal even further makes him the most likely out of the bunch. Sakurai has openly stated he wants all newcomers to be unique. Requesting all these niche sword users goes against the grain completely.

It has nothing to do with being biased, I wouldn't mind Shulk or Isaac at all, it's just about being realistic.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on the subject for now.

 

[PLATINUM7]

You've brought up a lot of points here so I'll just respond through bullet points.
- Squirtle and Ivysaur are also unique characters with unique movesets. But you don't think the characters that are generally seen as being the same actual character (IE essentially Dr Mario to regular Mario) as others that are in would get the ax before any other character? You know, ones that are completely unique?
- I don't want to argue too much over Ridley, I'm not even a fan particularly. But it's pretty clear after the direct that he's in, Sakurai is a troll, not a douche. He wouldn't tease people like that if Ridley wasn't playable, and furthermore, the shadow clearly showed a character that was being controlled by a human. Unless Ridley slowly fly's forward, stops and then continues flying forward in the stage. Which doesn't exactly make him a hazard now does it.
- On what planet are Squirtle and Ivysaur not as iconic as Charizard? Yes, Charizard is the most popular (and the most popular pokemon in genera), but he is in no way more iconic than the other starters. The fact that he was revealed before them is moot. There are any number of reasons why they may not have been revealed at the same time. They could be unlockables or Nintendo may not have wanted so much shown off at once (we'd already had 5 new characters announced in a 30 minute timespan). And besides, its not as if Sheik or ZSS were revealed at the same time as Zelda and Samus, by that logic Sheik and ZSS were cut (which clearly they aren't).
- Isaac/Shulk/FE are all niche RPGs, none of them are particularly imporant franchises to Nintendo and they all use the same basic tool -- a sword. A FE character that is not the main lord of the game will never be playable. Sakurai has only ever chosen the most high profile, popular and important characters from their respective series' to represent them as playable characters in Smash. That's why we never saw Shy Guy over Luigi,Bill Grey over Falco, or Lanky over Diddy. Anyone requesting a FE:A character that isn't Chrom (or at a slight push Lucina) is essentially doing the equivalent of requesting Bill Grey from Star Fox. Like I said, they wouldn't be clones, but they'd all be hitting the same exact role in the game. Seeing as how we already have 2 of those characters in Ike and Marth (assuming Ike returns) they aren't overloading the game with many more Niche RPG sword users. The fact that Isaac has other tools at his disposal even further makes him the most likely out of the bunch. Sakurai has openly stated he wants all newcomers to be unique. Requesting all these niche sword users goes against the grain completely.

It has nothing to do with being biased, I wouldn't mind Shulk or Isaac at all, it's just about being realistic.

I completely disagree with your last point about them all being unimportant series. FE is definately an important franchise to Nintendo. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. Golden Sun may not have had many installments, but it's been pretty successful and has enough of a following for it to be one of the first GBA Vc games.
Xenoblade is the only one that is debatable, but seeing as the spiritual successor to it X is one of the most hyped games for Wii U not to mention Xenoblade's own following you would hope Ninty considers it important.

 

[Wolfie557]

You've brought up a lot of points here so I'll just respond through bullet points.
- Squirtle and Ivysaur are also unique characters with unique movesets. But you don't think the characters that are generally seen as being the same actual character (IE essentially Dr Mario to regular Mario) as others that are in would get the ax before any other character? You know, ones that are completely unique?
- I don't want to argue too much over Ridley, I'm not even a fan particularly. But it's pretty clear after the direct that he's in, Sakurai is a troll, not a douche. He wouldn't tease people like that if Ridley wasn't playable, and furthermore, the shadow clearly showed a character that was being controlled by a human. Unless Ridley slowly fly's forward, stops and then continues flying forward in the stage. Which doesn't exactly make him a hazard now does it.
- On what planet are Squirtle and Ivysaur not as iconic as Charizard? Yes, Charizard is the most popular (and the most popular pokemon in genera), but he is in no way more iconic than the other starters. The fact that he was revealed before them is moot. There are any number of reasons why they may not have been revealed at the same time. They could be unlockables or Nintendo may not have wanted so much shown off at once (we'd already had 5 new characters announced in a 30 minute timespan). And besides, its not as if Sheik or ZSS were revealed at the same time as Zelda and Samus, by that logic Sheik and ZSS were cut (which clearly they aren't).
- Isaac/Shulk/FE are all niche RPGs, none of them are particularly imporant franchises to Nintendo and they all use the same basic tool -- a sword. A FE character that is not the main lord of the game will never be playable. Sakurai has only ever chosen the most high profile, popular and important characters from their respective series' to represent them as playable characters in Smash. That's why we never saw Shy Guy over Luigi,Bill Grey over Falco, or Lanky over Diddy. Anyone requesting a FE:A character that isn't Chrom (or at a slight push Lucina) is essentially doing the equivalent of requesting Bill Grey from Star Fox. Like I said, they wouldn't be clones, but they'd all be hitting the same exact role in the game. Seeing as how we already have 2 of those characters in Ike and Marth (assuming Ike returns) they aren't overloading the game with many more Niche RPG sword users. The fact that Isaac has other tools at his disposal even further makes him the most likely out of the bunch. Sakurai has openly stated he wants all newcomers to be unique. Requesting all these niche sword users goes against the grain completely.

It has nothing to do with being biased, I wouldn't mind Shulk or Isaac at all, it's just about being realistic.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on the subject for now.

nah squirtle and ivysaur and not as iconic as charizard.......they are out. no way would there be like 7 separate slots for pokemon.no way.also pretty much no one said zamus and shiek would be cut..........
FE is a important series to ninty look t awakening along with uprsing it made the 3ds go into overdrive and sell much much much at the start of the year even(and a little before). but yes chrom is the one.
im not sure about Isaac(ok I admit I hate him.lol,) but shulk has as much unqiue potential as him.....maybe more. plus MONOLITH has no one yet and x/xenoblade are critically acclaimed.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

nah squirtle and ivysaur and not as iconic as charizard.......they are out. no way would there be like 7 separate slots for pokemon.no way.also pretty much no one said zamus and shiek would be cut..........
FE is a important series to ninty look t awakening along with uprsing it made the 3ds go into overdrive and sell much much much at the start of the year even(and a little before). but yes chrom is the one.
im not sure about Isaac(ok I admit I hate him.lol,) but shulk has as much unqiue potential as him.....maybe more. plus MONOLITH has no one yet and x/xenoblade are critically acclaimed.

Xenoblade also had a very limited run and we had to fight to even get it released here.

 

[Duster72]

Xenoblade also had a very limited run and we had to fight to even get it released here.

True, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a lot higher in demand than expected. Look at GameStop's prices for a used copy, as an obvious albeit overused example. They wouldn't be that price, artificially hiked or not, if they were games that didn't have a relatively high demand. Plus, X has been shown in North American Directs x3 now, whereas Xenoblade was shown at a single worldwide E3 conference while in its beta stage. So it's obvious they're not making the same mistake twice.

Anyways, I'm leaving this thread for a while until it gets back on topic. I'm not going to waste anyone's time further.

 

[TheAnvil]

I completely disagree with your last point about them all being unimportant series. FE is definately an important franchise to Nintendo. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. Golden Sun may not have had many installments, but it's been pretty successful and has enough of a following for it to be one of the first GBA Vc games.
Xenoblade is the only one that is debatable, but seeing as the spiritual successor to it X is one of the most hyped games for Wii U not to mention Xenoblade's own following you would hope Ninty considers it important.

But they are unimportant to an extent. They aren't seen as key Nintendo franchises, they never do sales that are anything to write home about. They have fanbases sure, and clearly they're extremely loyal and vocal. But numbers don't lie. Until their sales start hitting the multi-millions, then they won't be important Nintendo franchises. As a franchise with 13 installments, Fire Emblem is still among Nintendo's least successful overall franchises.

nah squirtle and ivysaur and not as iconic as charizard.......they are out. no way would there be like 7 separate slots for pokemon.no way.also pretty much no one said zamus and shiek would be cut..........
FE is a important series to ninty look t awakening along with uprsing it made the 3ds go into overdrive and sell much much much at the start of the year even(and a little before). but yes chrom is the one.
im not sure about Isaac(ok I admit I hate him.lol,) but shulk has as much unqiue potential as him.....maybe more. plus MONOLITH has no one yet and x/xenoblade are critically acclaimed.

Status as an icon does not equal popularity. Pikachu is the icon of pokemon, but he isn't the most popular pokemon. Charizard has always been one of 3. And saying that they're out because there would be 7 pokemon is asinine, we had 6 on Brawl. How could anyone NOT think that this game would increase that number?
That's the first I've heard of Fire Emblem shifting consoles, last I checked it sold 1.28 million units, that's not the marquee of a system seller.

 

[Radical Bones]

Xenoblade also had a very limited run and we had to fight to even get it released here.

True, but if Nintendo really want to hype the next instalment and increase it's popularity, including a character from the franchise in Smash is a good way to do so.

I think leaks that include Shulk are strengthened by his appearance. If Nintendo are truly considering the future like they say, embracing new IPs and more hardcore games are the way to do so. Xenoblade should have been huge in terms of sales.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It really does bother me that people are pretty much randomly assuming that Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone. ZSS, Sheik and Toon Link all indicate that Sakurai is bringing back the entire Brawl cast otherwise those 3 would undoubtedly be the first to go. Especially now that Ridley is basically all-but-confirmed they don't need to pad the Metroid reps out with a second Samus.

Brawl had 6 pokemon reps, and had 2 more planned. So out of the 46 character roster that was planned for Brawl, 8 of them were to be pokemon reps. We're probably getting around 50 this time, and the 6 Brawl reps + Greninja and Mewtwo is pretty much the perfect pokemon representation right now. The fact that Greninja plays nothing like Squirtle and that they weren't shown as pokeballs indicates more strongly that they're returning. And the fact that Charizard was revealed first doesn't mean anything really, Zelda and Samus were revealed months and months before Sheik and ZSS. And with 4 starting pokemon already, I'm pretty sure that Jigglypuff and the rest would all be unlockables -- Therefore not announced until after release.

I'm not saying that they're 100% in, but it's more likely than not that they are. We have nothing to suggest as of now that those two characters are getting the ax.

Snake's obviously a little different because of licensing, he's the only one IMO who has a shot at disappearing. And I find him an unlikely cut too.

----- About Fire Emblem getting 3 reps.

The first 3 @Kokusho paragraphs above are a great explanation as to why Ike will probably stay, it doesn't make sense to cut a more unique character for one that would either play more like Marth, or just take Ike's moveset (which doesn't even really fit him in the first place).

Several RPG sword users seem to be on a lot of people's lists but *3rd FE rep/Shulk/Isaac all fit the same mold, and even though they wouldn't be clones of eachother, they all fill the same slot really. With Isaac missing from the direct I would lean towards him being the one who wins out, especially with Marth linked to Awakening on the smash bros site (easily explaining that the Awakening stage would be his). That's if any of them are included, we aren't exactly starved for sword users on Smash. The 3rd FE rep has the least potential to be unique and is already represented more than it needs to be.

I know this is technically not leak related, but indirectly it is.

Ridley is ANYTHING but "all but confirmed".

 

[PLATINUM7]

But they are unimportant to an extent. They aren't seen as key Nintendo franchises, they never do sales that are anything to write home about. They have fanbases sure, and clearly they're extremely loyal and vocal. But numbers don't lie. Until their sales start hitting the multi-millions, then they won't be important Nintendo franchises. As a franchise with 13 installments, Fire Emblem is still among Nintendo's least successful overall franchises.



Status as an icon does not equal popularity. Pikachu is the icon of pokemon, but he isn't the most popular pokemon. Charizard has always been one of 3. And saying that they're out because there would be 7 pokemon is asinine, we had 6 on Brawl. How could anyone NOT think that this game would increase that number?
That's the first I've heard of Fire Emblem shifting consoles, last I checked it sold 1.28 million units, that's not the marquee of a system seller.

Yes because selling millions is the only factor contributing to importance. Have you considered maybe the reason FE hasn't sold so much is because most of the games have been Japan only?
You heard it here everyone, any franchise that isn't a mutli million seller is unimportant. Cult followings are meaningless, one good selling game is unimportant and a couple critically successful entries are insignificant.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Actually, has there been anything outside of fan theories that state that Sakurai sees sword-users as a specific niche and that he doesn't want to "overload" (read: out in 3 or 4 more) on them? No there hasn't.

Also, I'm gonna be frank and say this once and for all-Chrom being in or out of a specific leak is the last thing anyone should care about when discussing the legitimacy of any leak at all. Him being in or out are both believable scenarios no matter what arguments are used otherwise.

 

[TheAnvil]

Shulk is someone I can see happening

Yes because selling millions is the only factor contributing to importance. Have you considered maybe the reason FE hasn't sold so much is because most of the games have been Japan only?
You heard it here everyone, any franchise that isn't a mutli million seller is unimportant. Cult followings are meaningless, one good selling game is unimportant and a couple critically successful entries are insignificant.

Money talks, Nintendo are running a business not a charity. IPs that make money will always be given precedence over ones that don't.

Let's put it this way. As of right now, if Nintendo stopped making Fire Emblem games, it wouldn't effect them at all. If they stopped making Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc right now. They'd be losing a **** ton of revenue.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You've brought up a lot of points here so I'll just respond through bullet points.
- Squirtle and Ivysaur are also unique characters with unique movesets. But you don't think the characters that are generally seen as being the same actual character (IE essentially Dr Mario to regular Mario) as others that are in would get the ax before any other character? You know, ones that are completely unique?
- I don't want to argue too much over Ridley, I'm not even a fan particularly. But it's pretty clear after the direct that he's in, Sakurai is a troll, not a douche. He wouldn't tease people like that if Ridley wasn't playable, and furthermore, the shadow clearly showed a character that was being controlled by a human. Unless Ridley slowly fly's forward, stops and then continues flying forward in the stage. Which doesn't exactly make him a hazard now does it.
- On what planet are Squirtle and Ivysaur not as iconic as Charizard? Yes, Charizard is the most popular (and the most popular pokemon in genera), but he is in no way more iconic than the other starters. The fact that he was revealed before them is moot. There are any number of reasons why they may not have been revealed at the same time. They could be unlockables or Nintendo may not have wanted so much shown off at once (we'd already had 5 new characters announced in a 30 minute timespan). And besides, its not as if Sheik or ZSS were revealed at the same time as Zelda and Samus, by that logic Sheik and ZSS were cut (which clearly they aren't).
- Isaac/Shulk/FE are all niche RPGs, none of them are particularly imporant franchises to Nintendo and they all use the same basic tool -- a sword. A FE character that is not the main lord of the game will never be playable. Sakurai has only ever chosen the most high profile, popular and important characters from their respective series' to represent them as playable characters in Smash. That's why we never saw Shy Guy over Luigi,Bill Grey over Falco, or Lanky over Diddy. Anyone requesting a FE:A character that isn't Chrom (or at a slight push Lucina) is essentially doing the equivalent of requesting Bill Grey from Star Fox. Like I said, they wouldn't be clones, but they'd all be hitting the same exact role in the game. Seeing as how we already have 2 of those characters in Ike and Marth (assuming Ike returns) they aren't overloading the game with many more Niche RPG sword users. The fact that Isaac has other tools at his disposal even further makes him the most likely out of the bunch. Sakurai has openly stated he wants all newcomers to be unique. Requesting all these niche sword users goes against the grain completely.

It has nothing to do with being biased, I wouldn't mind Shulk or Isaac at all, it's just about being realistic.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on the subject for now.

You can't compare Isaac or Shulk to a Fire Emblem sword user. You just can't. Issac can use magic and Psynergy, and Shulk uses the Monado, which has crazy powers.

Shulk is a Top 5 most popular character in Japan, and has quite the following in the states. He's not just some jabroni. Isaac isn't either.

I don't even really care about Isaac that much and I disagree here. I'll talk about Shulk more.

Xenoblade was planned to eventually come to the states according to Reggie, but Project Rainfall helped bring it here faster. It did pretty well for a limited quantity game, and news about it was all over the internet. Shulk, and his Monado, have powers that no other current swordsman in Smash Bros can do. He can create a cyclone, make the Monado grow in size, create a shield...etc... He also has normal arts at his disposal that could add to a game concept we've never seen in a character before. He can stun, and do more damage depending on where he attacks his opponent.

Add his unique swordplay into his already sizable popularity (most wanted newcomer from a previously unrepresented series in Japan) and fairly good sized Top 10 popularity in the States, the upcoming "X", which features the same gameplay (besides mechs)...you have a really good choice on your hands, even if it IS from a niche series.

 

[Radical Bones]

Actually, has there been anything outside of fan theories that state that Sakurai sees sword-users as a specific niche and that he doesn't want to "overload" (read: out in 3 or 4 more) on them? No there hasn't.

Exactly. This is something someone made up somewhere along the line and people use to base arguments on. A sword is a weapon and this is a fighting game.

Also, aside from Link and Tink for obvious reasons, all of the sword users are unique from one another. Actually, even Link and TL feel different.

Next thing you know people will complain that there are too many characters who punch, and that Sakurai shouldn't have put LM in.

 

[Wolfie557]

Shulk is someone I can see happening


Money talks, Nintendo are running a business not a charity. IPs that make money will always be given precedence over ones that don't.

Let's put it this way. As of right now, if Nintendo stopped making Fire Emblem games, it wouldn't effect them at all. If they stopped making Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc right now. They'd be losing a **** ton of revenue.

yeah but fe is still very important. go to the boards at ign and many will tell you it kickstarted the 3ds(along with uprisng) and it wasjust momentum that pushed it towards even greater succeses with AC and pokemon.......

anyway chrom is in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Exactly. This is something someone made up somewhere along the line and people use to base arguments on. A sword is a weapon and this is a fighting game.

The "too many sword-men" argument reminds me of the whole "too many grapplers" mentality that I have also seen.

 

[Radical Bones]

Shulk is someone I can see happening


Money talks, Nintendo are running a business not a charity. IPs that make money will always be given precedence over ones that don't.

Let's put it this way. As of right now, if Nintendo stopped making Fire Emblem games, it wouldn't effect them at all. If they stopped making Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc right now. They'd be losing a **** ton of revenue.

If Nintendo only focused on three series, they lose a **** ton of revenue. The reason they have so many IP's, successful or not, is so people don't grow bored of their games. There's such a thing as having too many games in a franchise.

Games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem may not be AAA titles, but they're still amazing, still Nintendo, and are perfect games to play to break up the bigger titles.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Shulk is someone I can see happening


Money talks, Nintendo are running a business not a charity. IPs that make money will always be given precedence over ones that don't.

Let's put it this way. As of right now, if Nintendo stopped making Fire Emblem games, it wouldn't effect them at all. If they stopped making Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong etc right now. They'd be losing a **** ton of revenue.

In that case then they can stop making Metroid and they don't need to make another Star Fox or F-Zero.