SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[IsmaR]

Recommend you guys leave things like "stupidity" and comments questioning others' "intelligence" out of these arguments.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

If you can use hypothetical reasoning, so can I.
And like no troll would take that golden opportunity.
I'm sure like, thousands of guesses have been made.

I'm not using hypothetical reasoning. I'm using probability and the fact that none of us are privy to Sakurai's innermost thoughts to try to illustrate that you have no point whatsoever.

Thousands versus 1,000,000+. Look at that and tell me your argument displays any sort of parity.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

One thing I'm wondering though

If the sal rumor is good why is it not in the main op with the other rumors


So IsmaR I really hope you add it soon but take your time

 

[Deleted member]

Whats this new leak everyone's talking about?

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I awaken from a six year slumber to give my thoughts on this controversy regarding the vague nature of the phrase, "pokemon from X/Y." Let's be reasonable regarding who are options would be. With the highly debatable exception of pichu every pokemon rep in the series has been iconic in some way. Pikachu is the series mascot (now I'm imagining clefairy as a smash character), Jigglypuff was, at the time, extremely popular in japan due the wonder of pokemania. Mewtwo was hands down the most popular legendary in existance and the, at the time, most powerful pokemon in the series, both in stats and lore. Pichu was not only connected to pikachu but was also cute, a baby pokemon (which were still new at the time) and an interesting gimmick character. Pokemon Trainer was based on the first PC of the series and carried with him versions of the iconic starters. Charizard has time and again been voted the most popular pokemon in existance. Lucario comes in pretty close behind that, having both a movie and a significant amount of in-universelore dedicated to him. I have long-time suspected the devs at Gamefreak really loved his concept.

This leads us to the vague "leak" we got mere hours before the direct from the same guy who was one of a small handful that predicted WFT. It is true that the lack of name stated is rather odd, but people have also pointed out he didn't accurately name the Villager (to be honest I would have named him something similar to the leak). But we'll cover that in a bit.

There were 70 pokemon introduced in X and Y but it is unreasonable to assume that just any of those were far game. Any character selection for smash would have to be market tested to ensure that character additions will lead to maximum return on investments. Sakurai doesn't just add anyone. Sure, he has favorites and occasionally likes to throw us a curve ball to keep thinks exciting, but for every ROB there is a sonic. For every WFT there is a megaman. He wants to give us the most anticipated characters but only within reason. Sakurai is not beholden to our demands but he obviously does care about our reactions. As he has described before they take great care in choosing pokemon reps. TPC gets involved and it is determined which reps are most popular. We will never get zoroark as a pc because he was a failed attempt at recreating the popularity of lucario.

This leads me to my point. Greninja was always the most likely rep from gen 6 if we were ever going to get one. Barring maaaaaybe sylveon, no gen 6 mon was advertised enough to become as iconic as lucario. The legends fall into the same problem as ridley, or even dialga and palkia. This leavs us with the most likely options being the starters and of those only Greninja has really shone in popularity polls. If the leak had come earlier than it did and we had more time to discuss it it is entirely possible we would have already been expecting greninja. Now, I wouldn't have ever thought him a possibility before the sal rumors came out, but it would have been a great starting point.

But wait, you ask. Why didn't he name it then? Because he most likely didn't remember the name. I assume this guy has only seen the roster list or select screen and not the character art. Remember that he could only describe the villager as animal crossing guy. Or that the rhythm heaven rep is just called chorus men (I am not very familiar with rhythm heaven so I may be off on this). In these cases, imagine how the tipper would have reacted. He may have asked someone who these people were. "He's the guy from animal crossing" or "he's a pokemon from X and Y"

I am a huge pokemon fan, but even I can't remember all their names off the top of my head. I'd wager the tipper may not even really care about pokemon. A person in that position is not going to remember the name of a specific pokemon out of 722 options. But he will remember the description given to him.

Yes, this is based on much assumption and a few hypotheses that can't be tested, but it will hopefully explain why the vague nature of the leak in regards to greninja doesn't automatically render it moot.

Thoughts?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Whats this new leak everyone's talking about?

Its a alternate version of the e3 leak

It's said pac man and mii are coming and 5 more newcomers include

Shulk

Palutena

Chrom

Chorus men (rythem heaven)

And a pokemon character from X and Y

The leakers name is sal


And guess what greninja just made this rumor very very possible because he/she (pokemon gender) is a 6th gen pokemon

And pac man is too because of the s flag and the galaga invaders

And mii well so many hints for the me the pilot wing stage is the stage

 

[Zhadgon]

I awaken from a six year slumber to give my thoughts on this controversy regarding the vagreat ue nature of the phrase, "pokemon from X/Y." Let's be reasonable regarding who are options would be. With the highly debatable exception of pichu every pokemon rep in the series has been iconic in some way. Pikachu is the series mascot (now I'm imagining clefairy as a smash character), Jigglypuff was, at the time, extremely popular in japan due the wonder of pokemania. Mewtwo was hands down the most popular legendary in existance and the, at the time, most powerful pokemon in the series, both in stats and lore. Pichu was not only connected to pikachu but was also cute, a baby pokemon (which were still new at the time) and an interesting gimmick character. Pokemon Trainer was based on the first PC of the series and carried with him versions of the iconic starters. Charizard has time and again been voted the most popular pokemon in existance. Lucario comes in pretty close behind that, having both a movie and a significant amount of in-universelore dedicated to him. I have long-time suspected the devs at Gamefreak really loved his concept.

This leads us to the vague "leak" we got mere hours before the direct from the same guy who was one of a small handful that predicted WFT. It is true that the lack of name stated is rather odd, but people have also pointed out he didn't accurately name the Villager (to be honest I would have named him something similar to the leak). But we'll cover that in a bit.

There were 70 pokemon introduced in X and Y but it is unreasonable to assume that just any of those were far game. Any character selection for smash would have to be market tested to ensure that character additions will lead to maximum return on investments. Sakurai doesn't just add anyone. Sure, he has favorites and occasionally likes to throw us a curve ball to keep thinks exciting, but for every ROB there is a sonic. For every WFT there is a megaman. He wants to give us the most anticipated characters but only within reason. Sakurai is not beholden to our demands but he obviously does care about our reactions. As he has described before they take great care in choosing pokemon reps. TPC gets involved and it is determined which reps are most popular. We will never get zoroark as a pc because he was a failed attempt at recreating the popularity of lucario.

This leads me to my point. Greninja was always the most likely rep from gen 6 if we were ever going to get one. Barring maaaaaybe sylveon, no gen 6 mon was advertised enough to become as iconic as lucario. The legends fall into the same problem as ridley, or even dialga and palkia. This leavs us with the most likely options being the starters and of those only Greninja has really shone in popularity polls. If the leak had come earlier than it did and we had more time to discuss it it is entirely possible we would have already been expecting greninja. Now, I wouldn't have ever thought him a possibility before the sal rumors came out, but it would have been a great starting point.

But wait, you ask. Why didn't he name it then? Because he most likely didn't remember the name. I assume this guy has only seen the roster list or select screen and not the character art. Remember that he could only describe the villager as animal crossing guy. Or that the rhythm heaven rep is just called chorus men (I am not very familiar with rhythm heaven so I may be off on this). In these cases, imagine how the tipper would have reacted. He may have asked someone who these people were. "He's the guy from animal crossing" or "he's a pokemon from X and Y"

I am a huge pokemon fan, but even I can't remember all their names off the top of my head. I'd wager the tipper may not even really care about pokemon. A person in that position is not going to remember the name of a specific pokemon out of 722 options. But he will remember the description given to him.

Yes, this is based on much assumption and a few hypotheses that can't be tested, but it will hopefully explain why the vague nature of the leak in regards to greninja doesn't automatically render it moot.

Thoughts?

Pretty much this, I have a little experiment but I don´t know how many people would want to participate on this, any volunteers?
.n_n.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Could you elaborate?

 

[Deleted member]

Its a alternate version of the e3 leak

It's said pac man and mii are coming and 5 more newcomers include

Shulk

Palutena

Chrom

Chorus men (rythem heaven)

And a pokemon character from X and Y

The leakers name is sal


And guess what greninja just made this rumor very very possible because he/she (pokemon gender) is a 6th gen pokemon

And pac man is too because of the s flag and the galaga invaders

And mii well so many hints for the me the pilot wing stage is the stage

I find this hard to believe for 2 reasons: Chorus Men and the lack of a Villain.

 

[papagenos]

Out of the millions of guess rosters someone had to get something right. Then people crowd around the lucky.

but it wasnt some ones guess roster, I have a "theory" about Mii's being more of a button like random (like how they are in mario kart) and not "counting" as a character on the roster, possibly using only custom move sets and not allowed in some modes of the game, a novelty more than a pure character on the roster.

if im right will i claim i had inside info? no. and why not?

because not everyone who gets something right will be a lying a**hole and claim they have inside info. Instead most people will just say "cool i guessed it"...guessed. not heard from a source. guessed. sadly this awful cynical internet world we live in thinks everyone will lie first chance they get to be an "internet cool guy".

while clearly many people do lie on the internet because they are immature idiots,

Sal does not come off that way to me... looking at everything over almost an entire year this leak has been debated for... if he was a liar he'd have gloated about little mac when he got in, he didn't, instead the next time we hear from him is when he boldly puts his credibility on the line right before the direct when a wave of new info could easily prov him wrong an hour later. imagine if palutena was pits final smash again? if you were a faker that had lasted since E3 you wouldnt risk something like that an HOUR before you might be proven false.

no doing this is the actions of someone whos actually getting information and trying to share it with the smash community. getting info right before the direct makes SENSE in the context of getting info from a source who got info right before E3.

This "leak" is truly a leak, its very obviously truly a leak and not a lie when you look at the facts of whats happened here.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I find this hard to believe for 2 reasons: Chorus Men and the lack of a Villain.

Why would a lack of a villain stop this from being true?
Is the SSB64 roster fake because there is no villain?

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I'm thinking it would do this thread good if people left their biases at the door. Discuss the leaks on their own merit instead of personal wish lists. I personally cannot figure out how a pacman moveset would work but I'd be willing to discuss it.

 

[Deleted member]

Why would a lack of a villain stop this from being true?
Is the SSB64 roster fake because there is no villain?

Donkey Kong.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm thinking it would do this thread good if people left their biases at the door. Discuss the leaks on their own merit instead of personal wish lists. I personally cannot figure out how a pacman moveset would work but I'd be willing to discuss it.

Just discuss it in the Pacman thread

 

[MrPanic]

I find this hard to believe for 2 reasons: Chorus Men and the lack of a Villain.

He never said these are all the newcomers, he only confirmed the ones he knows about.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Donkey Kong.

Both DK and DK Jr. grew out of being a villain when SSB came out. So whichever DK it is doesn't really count.

 

[Zhadgon]

So no one for the experiment?

.n_n.

 

[Zage]

Why is the Sal rumor even still being debated.

No one in the universe guessed Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega-Man, the day right before E3. Within 24 hours of E3, those exact 3 characters.

Literally no one, and all three of them were revealed. On the same exact day


Why the hell are people disputing that its a fake rumor

 

[Inawordyes]

Okay guys, so if you really want to go all conspiracy theory, then that picture from the Direct with the timestamp that's been floating around (01:08:55:16) has been suggested in the Direct thread to be referring to the release (01:08 = 1/8 or 8/1 = August 1), the total cumber of characters (55 playable characters) and the total number of newcomers (16 newcomers). Neither Sal nor his source ever said the characters they leaked were the only characters, but that being said, if you want to take the above with a huge grain of salt but also as a clever hint, then we have Sal's 12, leaving space for four more (my guess being Ridley due to Sakurai's trolling, King K. Rool because of the Kremlings, Wonder Red for reasons I've already explained in his support thread and would be too long for this post, and Takamaru or Lip as the retro rep; I believe Sakurai said he wanted a retro rep so to not have one would be absurd, and while Takamaru is the obvious choice, Lip is still a possbility because of the one leak that said that Diddy and a character that used Tetris and other types of blocks in a moveset would be revealed. While that did not happen, the leak itself has otherwise been correct about several things, even moreso with some stuff we heard about for the first time in the Direct, I can't remember the name, though).

What relation does this have to this thread? Admittedly not much, but it all goes back to what everybody keeps saying, that it was never said that the Sal's characters + Rosalina (which really should be confirmation in its own right) were the only newcomers. I guess I just wanted to rant about the above and possbility catch people's attention so they'd read the sentence before this and stop asking, haha. I'm interesting like that.

So no one for the experiment?

.n_n.

I may have missed something, but what experiment?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Fact of the matter is, that the only characters that can debunk the Sal Romano leak are the ones he included. They can only debunk it if they are in the game as something other than playable.

Most of the characters in the Sal Romano leak, (Pac Man, Chrom, Palutena to name a few) are fairly common picks, and good picks at that if you're looking at probability. That is neither here nor there in terms of the legitimacy. There WILL be a few characters that actually were expected. If they don't make it believable, I don't know what would. The entire roster isn't going to be strange choices. There is no problem with Palutena, Chrom, Shulk, Pac-Man, etc...

The Chorus Men are the biggest anomaly of the leak, but that doesn't make it fake. If they are revealed as an Assist Trophy, then yes, the leak will be fake. However, if they're playable? There is hardly a shadow of a doubt that it's real.

That's literally all there is to it. We can't pick it apart without more information. As of right now, it's up in the air, could be real, could be fake. However, if the Chorus Men or Marshal is a character in Smash Bros 4, it's pretty much real.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Just discuss it in the Pacman thread

It was just an example.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Donkey Kong.

That's technically not the right version of Donkey Kong. That DK is from DKC, and not the one from the Arcade. That was his grandfather if I remember correctly.

 

[Zhadgon]

Okay guys, so if you really want to go all conspiracy theory, then that picture from the Direct with the timestamp that's been floating around (01:08:55:16) has been suggested in the Direct thread to be referring to the release (01:08 = 1/8 or 8/1 = August 1), the total cumber of characters (55 playable characters) and the total number of newcomers (16 newcomers). Neither Sal nor his source ever said the characters they leaked were the only characters, but that being said, if you want to take the above with a huge grain of salt but also as a clever hint, then we have Sal's 12, leaving space for four more (my guess being Ridley due to Sakurai's trolling, King K. Rool because of the Kremlings, Wonder Red for reasons I've already explained in his support thread and would be too long for this post, and Takamaru or Lip as the retro rep; I believe Sakurai said he wanted a retro rep so to not have one would be absurd, and while Takamaru is the obvious choice, Lip is still a possbility because of the one leak that said that Diddy and a character that used Tetris and other types of blocks in a moveset would be revealed. While that did not happen, the leak itself has otherwise been correct about several things, even moreso with some stuff we heard about for the first time in the Direct, I can't remember the name, though).

What relation does this have to this thread? Admittedly not much, but it all goes back to what everybody keeps saying, that it was never said that the Sal's characters + Rosalina (which really should be confirmation in its own right) were the only newcomers. I guess I just wanted to rant about the above and possbility catch people's attention so they'd read the sentence before this and stop asking, haha. I'm interesting like that.


I may have missed something, but what experiment?

Well is my idea of what is happening with the source of Sal Romano and how sometimes is very precise and others to general, it could even explain why Rosalina was not ever been there in the leaks from this source obviously everything is assumption and probably will be a huge mess I will make and will not prove very much, only I´m a idiot but it could be fun and give us a little insight of what is happening.

.n_n.

 

[Johnny Wellens]

Why is the Sal rumor even still being debated.

No one in the universe guessed Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega-Man, the day right before E3.

Literally no one, and all three of them were revealed. On the same exact day


Why the hell are people disputing that its a fake rumor

I guess some people take more convincing, are in denial, or too skeptical to believe any leak until the official roster is released.

 

[Deleted member]

Both DK and DK Jr. grew out of being a villain when SSB came out. So whichever DK it is doesn't really count.

He still kidnapped maidens...that stays on the permanent record 4life.

http://prntscr.com/3970af

 

[WonderSmash]

What is this poll I keep hearing about? Did Nintendo launch a poll for most wanted new characters? Are there results we can see?

 

[PLATINUM7]

He still kidnapped maidens...that stays on the permanent record 4life.

http://prntscr.com/3970af

Yeah but at the time he was recovering bananas and participating in various sports.
Unless the Kremlings are the good guys and the kongs have been using the bananas to fuel their evil plans.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah but at the time he was recovering bananas and participating in various sports.
Unless the Kremlings are the good guys and the kongs have been using the bananas to fuel their evil plans.

DK is a mass murderer, where else does a monkey find a tie in the wild? Lol.

 

[TheUnsullied]

Why doesn't anyone ever update that first post? The one with all the dead leaks and stuff..

 

[Smash G]

The current Donkey Kong has kidnapped. If the first one is now Kranky Kong the "new" Donkey Kong doesn't seem to be much better. But his canon has been vague and whatever the crap they want it to be at the time.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The current Donkey Kong has kidnapped. If the first one is now Kranky Kong the "new" Donkey Kong doesn't seem to be much better. But his canon has been vague and whatever the crap they want it to be at the time.

Yeah but you just give DK a wind up toy and he stops being evil.
Also it's spelt Cranky Kong.

 

[Starphoenix]

Why is the Sal rumor even still being debated.

No one in the universe guessed Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega-Man, the day right before E3. Within 24 hours of E3, those exact 3 characters.

Literally no one, and all three of them were revealed. On the same exact day


Why the hell are people disputing that its a fake rumor

Because history likes to repeat itself.

 

[DangerDamage]

Okay guys, so if you really want to go all conspiracy theory, then that picture from the Direct with the timestamp that's been floating around (01:08:55:16) has been suggested in the Direct thread to be referring to the release (01:08 = 1/8 or 8/1 = August 1), the total cumber of characters (55 playable characters) and the total number of newcomers (16 newcomers). Neither Sal nor his source ever said the characters they leaked were the only characters, but that being said, if you want to take the above with a huge grain of salt but also as a clever hint, then we have Sal's 12, leaving space for four more (my guess being Ridley due to Sakurai's trolling, King K. Rool because of the Kremlings, Wonder Red for reasons I've already explained in his support thread and would be too long for this post, and Takamaru or Lip as the retro rep; I believe Sakurai said he wanted a retro rep so to not have one would be absurd, and while Takamaru is the obvious choice, Lip is still a possbility because of the one leak that said that Diddy and a character that used Tetris and other types of blocks in a moveset would be revealed. While that did not happen, the leak itself has otherwise been correct about several things, even moreso with some stuff we heard about for the first time in the Direct, I can't remember the name, though).

What relation does this have to this thread? Admittedly not much, but it all goes back to what everybody keeps saying, that it was never said that the Sal's characters + Rosalina (which really should be confirmation in its own right) were the only newcomers. I guess I just wanted to rant about the above and possbility catch people's attention so they'd read the sentence before this and stop asking, haha. I'm interesting like that.


I may have missed something, but what experiment?

I'm willing to bet it was an editing mistake since you can see debug text in one of the ZSS parts of the video, GameXplain pointed it out.
It's a cool theory but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it in June
Also, you noted that's 16 newcomers and 55 total slots. If you keep all of Brawl + that, it does work out. Interesting...

edit: It doesn't, actually, since Ivysaur and Squirtle are...

They're never mentioned, actually. We have no idea if they're being changed like Charizard...
If they are in, then it works
If not, it doesn't.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Why would you ever create a timestamp to display that sort of specific information? That's quite a leap to make in interpretation.

 

[papagenos]

I'm willing to bet it was an editing mistake since you can see debug text in one of the ZSS parts of the video, GameXplain pointed it out.
It's a cool theory but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it in June
Also, you noted that's 16 newcomers and 55 total slots. If you keep all of Brawl + that, it does work out. Interesting...

edit: It doesn't, actually, since Ivysaur and Squirtle are...

They're never mentioned, actually. We have no idea if they're being changed like Charizard...
If they are in, then it works
If not, it doesn't.

strange... 39 (brawl) plus 16(newcomers) would equal 55...

and August 1st would indeed be a plausible release date...

Why would you ever create a timestamp to display that sort of specific information? That's quite a leap to make in interpretation.

O.K. its super conspiracy theory BUT a nintendo employee (marketer? i forgot what his position was exactly) did tell people we all "missed" something in the direct...

everyone assumed that meant the trophies = new characters from their respective series..
but maybe he meant something REALLY was hidden in the direct, like that time stamp, i found it strange a nintendo employee would declare the entire internet missed something in the direct when a lot of people had already made the "trophies theory" almost immediately after watching the direct, not that i expected the man to check the entire internet to know if whatever he was getting at had been found but still why send us all searching?

and why would some official nintendo person TELL us to go searching for secret info in the direct in the first place unless nintendo wanted him to say it and have us really DIG deep through the direct?

so basically i dont know if i buy this time stamp thing but the numbers do work to make a viable release date and number of characters...
and since we were TOLD something is hidden in the direct it might not be as conspiracy/farfetch'd as it seems at first glance...

of course its just as likely its simply an editing error...not sure but im not writing it off as absolutely crazy... just sort of an out there theory that bizzarely works out when you look at the numbers

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

But if they have a release date then why not tell us? What purpose does it serve to keep that hidden?

 

[Deoxys911]

But if they have a release date then why not tell us? What purpose does it serve to keep that hidden?

To mess with the fans. This is Sakurai's Direct, after all.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Hiding characters is one thing. Hiding the final release date of the most anticipated product from your company this year is another. Not to mention that the timestamp was in the wii u version, right? But the 3ds version comes out first. And august first is a friday. Don't companies prefer to release on saturdays?

 

[Smash G]

Often ignored is that this Sal guy said there'd be other reveals at E3 which didn't happen.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

That has been far from ignored. He says they are on the way. My guess is plans changed before E3.