SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[SomewhatMystia]

Hiding characters is one thing. Hiding the final release date of the most anticipated product from your company this year is another. Not to mention that the timestamp was in the wii u version, right? But the 3ds version comes out first. And august first is a friday. Don't companies prefer to release on saturdays?

From my experience with Nintendo as of late, they seem to really, really like Tuesdays for some reason.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Everyone likes Taco Tuesday. Or Freedom Friday... but still on a Tuesday.

 

[DMurr]

Haha I love these crazy theories on the Direct.

39+16=55, but if Mewtwo isn't a newcomer and Snake is cut.. 38+1+16 also = 55.

 

[papagenos]

http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/...w-super-smash-bros-characters-yesterday-25163

New Fire Emblem Rep
New Zelda Rep
New Kid Icarus Rep
New Metroid Rep

http://gematsu.com/2014/04/rumor-shulk-palutena-set-super-smash-bros

Remaining "Leaked" Newcomers: Pacman, Mii, Palutena, Chrom, Shulk, Chorus Men

http://i.imgur.com/wMawK98.png

Hidden timestamp in the direct 01:08:55:16

01:08 = Release Date 01/08 August 8th (Japanese calander)

55:16 = 55 total characters / 16 Newcomers (non brawl characters)

Brawl had 39 characters (Sheik,Zero Suit Samus, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle counting as separate characters)

39 + 16 = 55

just seeing what i can make with that.

And just as a Note:
There's no DEFINITE proof that Snake Ivysaur and Squirtle are cut we are all just assuming they very likely are and NOTHING says mewtwo and roy wouldn't be part of the 16 "newcomers" or in this case non-brawl characters.

 

[Shroob]

I think 55 characters is a little out there considering we're only at 29 right now. That's nearly double the current amount we have. The trophy theory I feel like is just looking too deeply into something because of that Tweet. If it's real, it could very much mean, in my opinion, a completely reworked Ganondorf, which in a sense would be a 'new' character.

I mean, Charizard is a veteran, and he has a completely reworked moveset, right?

 

[papagenos]

I think 55 characters is a little out there considering we're only at 29 right now. That's nearly double the current amount we have. The trophy theory I feel like is just looking too deeply into something because of that Tweet. If it's real, it could very much mean, in my opinion, a completely reworked Ganondorf, which in a sense would be a 'new' character.

I mean, Charizard is a veteran, and he has a completely reworked moveset, right?

Yeah i was just playing with the timestamp theory i much prefer the roster with all of sals leaked characters plus mewtwo and ridley
cutting ivysaur, squirtle, snake, and ike.

for the trophy theory:

ganondorf reworked counting for a "new" zelda rep
ridley being the metroid rep
chrom as the fire emblem rep
palutena as the kid icarus rep


it's 49 characters but if you dont count Mii's (if they are a button like random only usable in certain modes or something) its 48 with 4 cuts (not that we have to follow that criteria but 45 nintendo character/ 3 3rd party characters and 4 cuts feels right in my book).

Thats the roster im hedging my bets on at this point^ the 55 character one with 16 newcomers i was just seeing what i could make of that timestamp idea, i DOUBT the roster will be that big.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

My money is on the 48 roster at best, partially because I find it odd Sakurai would warn us about less character inclusion and then give us over a dozen newcomers.

 

[hellyo]

About the 01:08:55:16 theory, I can't find the time-stamp in the Japanese Smash Direct.

 

[IsmaR]

But if they have a release date then why not tell us? What purpose does it serve to keep that hidden?

If they (or Nintendo) change it, then people will start having doubts. Remember Brawl got delayed twice.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I remember, but if that's the case then this isn't an indication of a release date since a nintendo employee pointed towards it (assuming this is what he's referring to). Why draw attention to something giving an unofficial release date if you are already planning for the possibility of having to delay the project? (Also, I find it obnoxious when people whine that a game has been delayed)

 

[Ta1nted_4ngel29]

I never understand why people say Ike will get cut. He's an FE character with a unique moveset that isn't just a reskinned Marth (*Cough* Roy *Cough*). Is it just because people don't like Ike? Or am I missing something here?

And since they are porting over the Brawl characters (easy to do so), cuts aside from Snake (licencing stuff is the only block for him), Ivysaur, Squirtle, and PKMN Trainer seem like utter bull by saying "these will get cut cus they're clones" or a popularity argument. Doesn't really work as an argument cus Falco and Ganondorf got back in Brawl and we got Wolf (who could arguably considered a semi-clone or not one at all) and Mewtwo and Roy were dropped despite being popular characters in Melee. Hell, when Sakurai said "not all characters are returning" he could have just meant Snake or Ivysaur and Squirtle for all we know or possibly all three of them. Basically everyone's arguments for a character inclusion or cut is arbitrary and don't mater. Ever. Until Sakurai says otherwise, no leak is to be believed or speculated on, regardles of how "credible" it is. Someone can predict 8/10ths of a roster and claim it was a 'leak' and then they turn out to actually happen, does that make him/her legit? No. No it doesn't.

It's fun to speculate on the possibilities of leaked lists, but ultimately it's just killing time til the game is out.

Also, as for Sal's leak, I don't hate it but I feel it could have been better. :/

If DLC happens, paid or not, I would love it. That's just me though. I can see people's opinions on it during tournaments though...

Tournament opinions don't matter, simply for the fact that they make the game boring buy arbitrarily banning characters, all items, and limit it to Final Destination.

At least they'll all be sequestered to the "For Glory" section of Online mode. :/

 

[Banjodorf]

Tournament opinions don't matter, simply for the fact that they make the game boring buy arbitrarily banning characters, all items, and limit it to Final Destination.

At least they'll all be sequestered to the "For Glory" section of Online mode. :/

Is...that the impression you got from Sakurai's Direct? That's not even close to the truth for tournaments.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I never understand why people say Ike will get cut. He's an FE character with a unique moveset that isn't just a reskinned Marth (*Cough* Roy *Cough*). Is it just because people don't like Ike? Or am I missing something here?

And since they are porting over the Brawl characters (easy to do so), cuts aside from Snake (licencing stuff is the only block for him), Ivysaur, Squirtle, and PKMN Trainer seem like utter bull by saying "these will get cut cus they're clones" or a popularity argument. Doesn't really work as an argument cus Falco and Ganondorf got back in Brawl and we got Wolf (who could arguably considered a semi-clone or not one at all) and Mewtwo and Roy were dropped despite being popular characters in Melee. Hell, when Sakurai said "not all characters are returning" he could have just meant Snake or Ivysaur and Squirtle for all we know or possibly all three of them. Basically everyone's arguments for a character inclusion or cut is arbitrary and don't mater. Ever. Until Sakurai says otherwise, no leak is to be believed or speculated on, regardles of how "credible" it is. Someone can predict 8/10ths of a roster and claim it was a 'leak' and then they turn out to actually happen, does that make him/her legit? No. No it doesn't.

It's fun to speculate on the possibilities of leaked lists, but ultimately it's just killing time til the game is out.

Also, as for Sal's leak, I don't hate it but I feel it could have been better. :/


Tournament opinions don't matter, simply for the fact that they make the game boring buy arbitrarily banning characters, all items, and limit it to Final Destination.

At least they'll all be sequestered to the "For Glory" section of Online mode. :/

I think people see Ike being cut because it seems Marth is always placed alongside FE's current poster boy. Roy was it for Melee, Ike was it for Brawl and I guess people see Chrom being Ike's replacement.

 

[Ta1nted_4ngel29]

I think people see Ike being cut because it seems Marth is always placed alongside FE's current poster boy. Roy was it for Melee, Ike was it for Brawl and I guess people see Chrom being Ike's replacement.

...That's a pretty dumb*** reason, tbh. Roy was to be in Brawl too, but he likely had a lower priority since he was a clone, hence his hidden, incomplete data on the Brawl disk. It'll likely have Marth, Ike and new FE character (or more if Sakurai fancies more FE characters).

Is...that the impression you got from Sakurai's Direct? That's not even close to the truth for tournaments.

"Almost every stage get's a Final Destination form."

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament_legal_(SSBB)

Spoiler

Near-universally Banned

• Distant Planet
• Green Greens
• Jungle Japes
• Luigi's Mansion
• Norfair
• Onett
• PictoChat
• Pirate Ship
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)

Universally Banned

• 75 m
• Big Blue
• Bridge of Eldin (This stage has been seen in Japan as a legal counterpick in doubles tournaments however).
• Corneria
• Flat Zone 2
• Green Hill Zone
• Hanenbow
• Mario Bros.
• Mario Circuit
• Mushroomy Kingdom (both 1-1 and 1-2)
• New Pork City
• Rumble Falls
• Shadow Moses Island
• Skyworld
• Spear Pillar
• Summit
• Temple
• WarioWare, Inc.

General Universal Rules

• Items are turned to off and none.

Miscellaneous Rules
- Banning Meta Knight: Usage of Meta Knight in any capacity is not allowed in the tournament.

Yeaaaaahhhh.... I did.

 

[| Kailex |]

I think its quite obvious why those were banned, they want competitive play and not casual fun (just to let you know playing competitively doesnt mean there's no fun, I play both casual and competitive and have fun as well) why are we talking about this anyways, let's get back to the leaks

 

[PLATINUM7]

I think its quite obvious why those were banned, they want competitive play and not casual fun (just to let you know playing competitively doesnt mean there's no fun, I play both casual and competitive and have fun as well) why are we talking about this anyways, let's get back to the leaks

That's not it at all. The idea of banned stages and banning items is so that the only thing that contributes to a player winning is their skill. By removing most randomness through items and allowing players to focus on fighting each other, rather than stage hazards you achieve the fairest way to determine who is the best.

 

[LKnight]

Anyone consider the fact that if Squirtle and Ivysaur really are cut it may be due to the 3DS limitations?

I understand Sakurai's stance on getting rid of transformations because players tend to pick one of the transformations and just stick with that so it makes sense just to get rid of them and give those characters a full move set.

So while it looks like Squirtle and Ivysaur are cut (if they weren't it would have made sense to show them in Greninja's reveal trailer) it might not be just for the sake of cutting the characters rather than replacing them for characters more prominent due to the 3DS's limitations.

Just something to think about.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Anyone consider the fact that if Squirtle and Ivysaur really are cut it may be due to the 3DS limitations?

I understand Sakurai's stance on getting rid of transformations because players tend to pick one of the transformations and just stick with that so it makes sense just to get rid of them and give those characters a full move set.

So while it looks like Squirtle and Ivysaur are cut (if they weren't it would have made sense to show them in Greninja's reveal trailer) it might not be just for the sake of cutting the characters rather than replacing them for characters more prominent due to the 3DS's limitations.

Just something to think about.

This is the 10th time I've seen someone say this today. I'll say the same thing that's been said every other time.
It is unlikely they are cut due to llimitations with the 3DS due to the 3DS being just as if not a little more powerful than the Wii and the fact that cartridges can load things faster than what an optical disc can.

 

[Ta1nted_4ngel29]

Sheik and Zamus being made into their own characters was an easy way to pad out the roster and give it the illusion of a bigger roster, imo. I could be wrong and this was a last minute change since it would require minor tweeks and reworks. 3DS can handle games that are at least GameCube quality, so 'limitations' pertaining to the non-inclusion of transforming characters is bunk, since there are transforming Final Smashes.

That's not it at all. The idea of banned stages and banning items is so that the only thing that contributes to a player winning is their skill. By removing most randomness through items and allowing players to focus on fighting each other, rather than stage hazards you achieve the fairest way to determine who is the best.

If they wanna REALLY prove who's best, they should be able to traverse all the chaos of the stage hazards, items and Final Smashes and be able to survive it. Playing with all Items, characters, stages allowed teaches you to be more situationally aware and dodge/target better. If they insist on neutering the experience down to a stage and no items (and an occasional character ban) they should just play Street Fighter.

 

[Banjodorf]

This is about to get messy. And honestly doesn't belong in this thread...

And before it gets TOO messy, you're not forced to play a certain way. That's literally the truth.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Sheik and Zamus being made into their own characters was an easy way to pad out the roster and give it the illusion

If they wanna REALLY prove who's best, they should be able to traverse all the chaos of the stage hazards, items and Final Smashes and be able to survive it. Playing with all Items, characters, stages allowed teaches you to be more situationally aware and dodge/target better. If they insist on neutering the experience down to a stage and no items (and an occasional character ban) they should just play Street Fighter.

Please stay on topic, we are here to discuss rumours and leaks, not the implications of being screwed over by random chance when you're trying to have a less casual and more competitive experience.

 

[Ta1nted_4ngel29]

Please stay on topic, we are here to discuss rumours and leaks, not the implications of being screwed over by random chance when you're trying to have a less casual and more competitive experience.

Fair enough, but I edited my post to include my first thought that I accidentally left out.

 

[Radical Bones]

This is the 10th time I've seen someone say this today. I'll say the same thing that's been said every other time.
It is unlikely they are cut due to llimitations with the 3DS due to the 3DS being just as if not a little more powerful than the Wii and the fact that cartridges can load things faster than what an optical disc can.

I can't agree more. So many people keep saying that. It's because of what Sakurai said about the Ice Climbers, but that's a different story, and was early into development. I'm sick of people saying characters aren't in due to 3DS limitations. I'll repeat myself too: if you own a 3DS, or have ever played one, you'll understand just how powerful that little pocket rocket is.

...That's a pretty dumb*** reason, tbh. Roy was to be in Brawl too, but he likely had a lower priority since he was a clone, hence his hidden, incomplete data on the Brawl disk. It'll likely have Marth, Ike and new FE character (or more if Sakurai fancies more FE characters).

It's not that dumb***... Marth is an icon, and the poster boy of the series, whereas other characters are the heroes of one to two games, so it's hard to choose who exactly goes in. Makes sense to go with the most recent. That being said, I agree that it'd be such a waste to see him go seeing as he's not a clone, and plays so different to the other sword users in Smash.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Honestly, I think Roy has been more popular in smash than his own series. To me that doesn't bode well for inclusion.

 

[Ta1nted_4ngel29]

It's not that dumb***... Marth is an icon, and the poster boy of the series, whereas other characters are the heroes of one to two games, so it's hard to choose who exactly goes in. Makes sense to go with the most recent. That being said, I agree that it'd be such a waste to see him go seeing as he's not a clone, and plays so different to the other sword users in Smash.

But this idea that fans made up (Marth + current hero) is still dumb cus Roy was gonna be in Brawl but cut due to time constraints or some other reason which would have made Marth + Ike + Roy. So Marth + Ike + new guy/girl isn't far-fetched at all.

It just irks me when people suggest cuts besides Snake since there's no real legit reason besides not enough time. Especially since most of the character's data is easily lifted from the previous game thereby cutting down on dev time, and you'd be hard pressed to find devs that would waste time and money to recreate the same exact character with the same exact specs from scratch with the porting option being there. Devs will always take shortcuts when necessary.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Do we even know for certain Roy was gonna be in brawl?

 

[Banjodorf]

(Well, Snake and the other PT Pokemon.)

Honestly I agree with you though. We need to stop "predicting Sakurai" with patterns.

There's nothing about Ike that suggests he's cut material. At all. People just like to say it, because apparently a full blown clone from one game of his own being cut AT LAST MINUTE constitutes a Fire Emblem pattern that also affects well-planned unique characters from the same series.

Even though it happened once.

@Ryuu Yes. We do. He and Mewtwo have a large amount of character data seemingly scrapped last minute.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Keyword: seemingly. I was asking for certain.

 

[Cold Fusion]

This thread should just be called "discuss sal/palutena when no one from 4chan or gamefaqs presents their wishlists as leaks." Seriously all you guys ever do is talk about sal/palutena AS SOON AS you debunk all the other "leaks." And my favorite part is that you guys literally recycle the same arguments over and over again.

 

[MasterofMonster]

This thread should just be called "discuss sal/palutena when no one from 4chan or gamefaqs presents their wishlists as leaks." Seriously all you guys ever do is talk about sal/palutena AS SOON AS you debunk all the other "leaks." And my favorite part is that you guys literally recycle the same arguments over and over again.

Well, this IS the Leaks and Rumor thread. Since pretty much every leak gets debunked in a few seconds, it makes sense the Palutena and Sal rumors are the ones talked about, since they are very likely to be real.

This is certanly not a Place for Rosters and needless arguments, which are common, but talking about PaluSal makes perfect sense, no matter how 'old' some Think the discussions have gotten. ^^

 

[MySmashmains6]

But this idea that fans made up (Marth + current hero) is still dumb cus Roy was gonna be in Brawl but cut due to time constraints or some other reason which would have made Marth + Ike + Roy. So Marth + Ike + new guy/girl isn't far-fetched at all.

It just irks me when people suggest cuts besides Snake since there's no real legit reason besides not enough time. Especially since most of the character's data is easily lifted from the previous game thereby cutting down on dev time, and you'd be hard pressed to find devs that would waste time and money to recreate the same exact character with the same exact specs from scratch with the porting option being there. Devs will always take shortcuts when necessary.

THANK YOU! More people, seriously, need to realise this!

 

[PLATINUM7]

THANK YOU! More people, seriously, need to realise this!

Why would you just reuse Brawl data? That's the one thing we don't want. Besides characters are being changed beyond graphics, so Brawl data wouldn't provide much help.

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

Why would you just reuse Brawl data? That's the one thing we don't want. Besides characters are being changed beyond graphics, so Brawl data wouldn't provide much help.

Building directly on top of an existing engine saves a ton of production time. It's a bit like a programmer using libraries that other programmers out there have already pre-made; it saves you the trouble of doing it all yourself.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Building directly on top of an existing engine saves a ton of production time. It's a bit like a programmer using libraries that other programmers out there have already pre-made; it saves you the trouble of doing it all yourself.

I know that, I'm just pointing out that Brawl data doesn't just completely do the job for Sakurai and Namco, it can only do so much.

 

[MySmashmains6]

Why would you just reuse Brawl data? That's the one thing we don't want. Besides characters are being changed beyond graphics, so Brawl data wouldn't provide much help.

It's so they don't have to remake the character models of veterans from scratch. Newcomers are a different story. They can then just focus on touching up on character model designs. Look at Sonic, they clearly reused his Brawl model and gave it the HD/3DS treatment.

 

[PLATINUM7]

It's so they don't have to remake the character models of veterans from scratch. Newcomers are a different story. They can then just focus on touching up on character model designs. Look at Sonic, they clearly reused his Brawl model and gave it the HD/3DS treatment.

His mouth is in a different position more akin to his actual games, so it's either not his Brawl model or they gave him some trivial changes.

 

[Radical Bones]

It just irks me when people suggest cuts besides Snake since there's no real legit reason besides not enough time. Especially since most of the character's data is easily lifted from the previous game thereby cutting down on dev time, and you'd be hard pressed to find devs that would waste time and money to recreate the same exact character with the same exact specs from scratch with the porting option being there. Devs will always take shortcuts when necessary.

I think it's Sakurai's focus on balancing gameplay this time around that he warned us there may be cuts. Sure, characters can be lifted easily enough, but balancing each move against all the other characters is hard, and adding one character takes a lot of time. Some devs like to take shortcuts, and Sakurai has in the past, but I don't think he wants to anymore.

 

[powerprotoman]

I think it's Sakurai's focus on balancing gameplay this time around that he warned us there may be cuts. Sure, characters can be lifted easily enough, but balancing each move against all the other characters is hard, and adding one character takes a lot of time. Some devs like to take shortcuts, and Sakurai has in the past, but I don't think he wants to anymore.

"may" being the key word here i wont count any leak that has cuts as real unless said character is disconfirmed by sakurai himself

 

[Luigi#1]

I'm not using hypothetical reasoning. I'm using probability and the fact that none of us are privy to Sakurai's innermost thoughts to try to illustrate that you have no point whatsoever.

Thousands versus 1,000,000+. Look at that and tell me your argument displays any sort of parity.

Ya. One in 55,000 or whatever you said.
Millions of Smash fans. [at least 200,000 guesses.]
By the odds, someone still wins.

Besides, even if Sakurai has some out there criteria, leaks often have the popular characters, and some WTF characters. If guessing is impossible how were Mega Man, and Little Mac ever guessed by so many in the first place. Rosalina was a bit of a curve ball, but people got her. Villager was still requested. Pokemon from X/Y was expected. He could have been going by the fan expectations and thought that was ideal. The old popular characters than WTF. I'm sure tons of people have guessed pokemon from X/Y, Little Mac, and Mega Man before together, those were guessed.

Darn he's gone. Fair bit of intelligence, he had. Ah well.
[mutters something about Palutena leak.]

 

[Kokusho]

the thing is, Ike is very different from any other Fire emblem character in Smash. In brawl he is slow and powerfull with it's own move set, he is added gameplay. Roy was merely a clone with tweaked stats numbers, which was also supposed to be a slow but powerfull version of Marth.
For smash4, in order to cut Ike they would have to make the new fire emblem character play like Ike (that's "kinda" what they wanted to do with Lucario vs Mewtwo but not very well because mewtwo is also unique). But the only obvious newcomer for FireEmblem as a Ike-clone would be Chrom and I don't see him as a slow type, he uses the same sword as Marth, not a gigantic sword like Ike with Ragnell.

Sakurai (and Nintendo in general for that matter) always see gameplay first and that how he decides which character to include above all. They'll likely won't cut such a unique character if they can't replace him with someone similar that fit the same role. (Snake may be an exception for legal matters, and ROB if they fells like the characters wasn't used enough (not fun to play ?) )

Also in the Fire Emblem serie, Ike may be the next most talked about character after Marth, He is feature as the main character in 2 games, he is seen as the most powerfull opponent in the DLCs, and even have an heir as a playable character in FE Awakening: Priam, which carry his sword (Priam could fit as a replacement for Ike but that wouldn't make much sense as he is no more than an easter egg at this point ).

So I don't think Ike will be cut, there is no one to takes its place as a slow and powerfull sword user, my guess is we will see a third Fire Emblem character, Chrom would be obvious choice but maybe to much like Marth as a fighter, except if they find a way to make him play really different (maybe with mobility).
Robin (myAvatar/ the tactician) would be the second choice, a very interesting one, combining melee Sword play and range magic. Also with the 2 genders option (like Wii Fit Trainer).

My personnal wish is that both are newcomers because I love FE Awakening but even then I don't want Ike to be cut because he is extremely fun to play and unique and no FE:A character can replace him.