SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[Gaxel]

I can't believe I didn't notice Yoshi being gone lol

LOL yes, I completely forgot that he wasn't announced. I see the original 12 making a comeback in every installment. If anyone would have to go, I'd see Jiggly being the first to not be included.

 

[lightdasher]

I can't believe you guys keep putting every single brawl character in even though Sakurai said some wont make the cut.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

I can't believe you guys keep putting every single brawl character in even though Sakurai said some wont make the cut.

He said he would try to not have any cuts.

 

[Luigi#1]

But, let's be serious here. Sakurai doesn't even make Mario games, if anyone is going to be given special treatment, it's going to be Kirby/Kid Icarus. That Palutena leak seems to be legitimate, maybe not the pictures but the addition of the character.



Gooey, Prince Fluff or a real villain like Marx.

Horrifying.

Kirby is one of the most selling and popular Nintendo franchises. It deserves like, 4 characters by now, and didn't have even more than 1 until Brawl. And 2 Kid Icuras reps aren't crazy.

 

[lightdasher]

The only Kirby rep I would want would be Adleine, but I don't even know if Sakurai remembers who she is, hell I don't know if anyone else does, I've never seen a "leak" with her on it.

 

[swordbreaker]

Gah, I hate how NES/Famicom is apparently the only "retro" system. It's 2014, SNES, 64, Game Boy, and Game Boy Color also qualify. That means Lip, Prince Sable, Muddy Mole, and a ton of other characters can work.

Lol, no, they really don't. They are NEVER given anniversary treatment by Nintnedo. Not even the gameboy. Super Famicom isn't either.

 

[Sehnsucht]

He said he would try to not have any cuts.

That's what I heard as well.

I'd imagine that Veterans would take less work than Newcomers, since Brawl exists as a template for reference. On the other hand, I'd imagine that Newcomers (and Third-Parties) would have higher priority, so while they might try to retain all Veterans, cuts could still be made.

That likely won't happen until the final phase of development, however, when compromises may have to be made for the sake of finishing the game in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[andimidna]

I see Ike being cut as Roy did. Also, please elaborate on achieved?


I completely forgot Yoshi, Ice Climbers and Mr GW.

Zelda/Sheik, would be kept the same. Wolf, Ike and ROB I don't see coming back.

Roy was not cut. He was intended to return i Brawl but had to be dropped due to time constraints.
AKA there was supposed to be 3 FE characters in Brawl.
Lets look at FE during the time of Melee:
6 Japan only games: 2 characters
Brawl's time:
6 Japan-only, and a few world-wide(somebody can look up how many if they want): Intended 3 characters
Lets look at FE in present time:
6 Japan only games and 8 world-wide ones. The first localized FE and the most recent being the most popular, also with an upcoming cross-over: 2 characters? No. Hell No.
Also:
Marth- 3 games
Roy- 1 game
Ike- 2 games
Chrom- 1 game
Marth only had 2 games when he returned in Brawl, and he was obviously put at a higher priority over one-time Roy.
Don't forget FE is a character-centric series like Pokemon. It revolves around fighting with a bunch of people, and has the largest pool of characters to pull form... with many unique classes.
4 is more likely than 2. But 3 is the most likely.

EDIT: Wolf, the Starfox villain. SSB, lack of villains... I do't have to explain this one... Series don't usually go down in reps so it would only make sense if Krystal took his spot, and I doubt that Krystal would be prioritized over Wolf no matter what.

ROB- So who's going to take his moveset?
You can't just delete a moveset!
ROB is a big character to Nintendo whether people realize it or not and, well... he's not a clone! That's it right there... that enough is reason for him to return... retro additions are always good.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

The only Kirby rep I would want would be Adleine, but I don't even know if Sakurai remembers who she is, hell I don't know if anyone else does, I've never seen a "leak" with her on it.

That's because leakers like to play it safe and she isn't really a "safe" character

Roy was not cut. He was intended to return i Brawl but had to be dropped due to time constraints.

That means he was cut...

 

[Gaxel]

Roy was not cut. He was intended to return i Brawl but had to be dropped due to time constraints.
AKA there was supposed to be 3 FE characters in Brawl.
Lets look at FE during the time of Melee:
6 Japan only games: 2 characters
Brawl's time:
6 Japan-only, and a few world-wide(somebody can look up how many if they want): Intended 3 characters
Lets look at FE in present time:
6 Japan only games and 8 world-wide ones. The first localized FE and the most recent being the most popular, also with an upcoming cross-over: 2 characters? No. Hell No.
Also:
Marth- 3 games
Roy- 1 game
Ike- 2 games
Chrom- 1 game
Marth only had 2 games when he returned in Brawl, and he was obviously put at a higher priority over one-time Roy.
Don't forget FE is a character-centric series like Pokemon. It revolves around fighting with a bunch of people, and has the largest pool of characters to pull form... with many unique classes.
4 is more likely than 2. But 3 is the most likely.

Considering what Sakurai does with the past 2 installments, he added FE characters based on what FE game was released at the time.

Awakening is the newest installment if you don't count the upcoming Shin Megami crossover. So, logically... Chrom would be next. They are running out of time as is so I don't think they really care about having 3 Fire Emblem representatives right now. They are focusing on gameplay more than adding characters. FE is budding into a really popular series but it's not going to have such a priority over Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby and Kid Icarus... Sorry but, this is my interpretation... Not yours.

The game has to be going through final preparation by now if they want to release it this year.

 

[swordbreaker]

People are thinking too simply on characters again. It's not about "how many characters a franchise deserves". It's about what the character and their world brings. Sakurai has already explained this. He makes it pretty easy to guess characters since that's the focus this time.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

People are thinking too simply on characters again. It's not about "how many characters a franchise deserves". It's about what the character and their world brings. Sakurai has already explained this. He makes it pretty easy to guess characters since that's the focus this time.

Exactly. Most people treat Chrom as "just another FE rep that will be replaced in the next game".

 

[AGES]

ROB- So who's going to take his moveset?
You can't just delete a moveset!
ROB is a big character to Nintendo whether people realize it or not and, well... he's not a clone! That's it right there... that enough is reason for him to return... retro additions are always good.

 

[andimidna]

Considering what Sakurai does with the past 2 installments, he added FE characters based on what FE game was released at the time.

Awakening is the newest installment if you don't count the upcoming Shin Megami crossover. So, logically... Chrom would be next. They are running out of time as is so I don't think they really care about having 3 Fire Emblem representatives right now. They are focusing on gameplay more than adding characters. FE is budding into a really popular series but it's not going to have such a priority over Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby and Kid Icarus... Sorry but, this is my interpretation... Not yours.

The game has to be going through final preparation by now if they want to release it this year.

Chrom will likely be added... but he has only achieved half of what Ike has, so Ike won't get cut just to have a blank spot in the middle of the roster.
I do think FE will have more reps than Metroid.... why? It already has 2 out of 3 times. Ridley is the only Metroid character with a chance, really.
I definitely think it deserves more reps than Yoshi. Why? How many Yoshi games even exist? The only Yoshi character that could be playable that isn't yet is Kamek... and I don't see Kamek being added onto the roster.
Since we have the 3 main Kirby characters with Waddle Dee being a part of King Dedede... Kirby is fine how it is. Sakurai is modest, him adding 2 reps from his own series was surprising in Brawl.
Kid Icarus has 3 games. Fire Emblem has 14 games. Fire Emblem will probably get more representation... just like every Super Smash Bros game. However, both Uprising and Awakening did A LOT for their series, so I expect both Palutena and Chrom to be added... I'm just talking about cuts. Especially cutting the 2nd biggest FE character ever? Who, before Shadow Dragon, was basically the most prominent in the series. Ike is the only lord with more than one worldwide game.
Not to mention there are even characters like Anna and Tiki who have been in 13 and 5 games.

 

[ClubbyBear]

I realized something; alot of the characters leaked and announced were also found on the list for the "SSB Universe" documents:
King K Rool (Donkey Kong)
Zoroark (Pokemon)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
King Hippo (Punch Out)
Ridley (Metroid)
Prince Sable (Frogs the Bell Tolls)
Palutena (Kid Icarus)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Megaman (Megaman)
Crystal (Star Fox)
Slime (Dragon Quest)
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Sonic (Sonic)

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Character representation is measured in slots to make series equal.
-4 Mario characters
-5 Zelda characters
-6 Pokemon characters
makes no sense. He just had to work on 39... It's not surprising he'd refer to them that way. But to argue a 6th Mario character because of Pokemon trainer is just ********....

So now to relate this to rumors/leaks... any with a 6th Mario character I doubt. And any with a character cut I doubt.

Character representation is measured in slots to make series equal.
-4 Mario characters
-5 Zelda characters
-6 Pokemon characters
makes no sense. He just had to work on 39... It's not surprising he'd refer to them that way. But to argue a 6th Mario character because of Pokemon trainer is just ********....
.

Well in reality it was if you count Wario & Yoshi as part of the Mario family & the forbidden 7
Mario 7(Dr. Mario, Yoshi & Wario)
Zelda 7(Toon Zelda & Toon Sheik
Pokemon 7(Mewtwo, due the Prai_Mai data never was proven to be Plusle & Minun & could also be the data for random select)

so at 1 point in development it atleast was balanced

 

[GreenReaperGod]

I realized something; alot of the characters leaked and announced were also found on the list for the "SSB Universe" documents:
King K Rool (Donkey Kong)
Zoroark (Pokemon)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
King Hippo (Punch Out)
Ridley (Metroid)
Prince Sable (Frogs the Bell Tolls)
Palutena (Kid Icarus)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Megaman (Megaman)
Crystal (Star Fox)
Slime (Dragon Quest)
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Sonic (Sonic)

Yeah, but Villager and WFT are nowhere to be seen.
Either way, Universe was fake

 

[andimidna]

I was hoping somebody would say that.

Now let me ask you this....

How did that go down?
Were people ACCEPTING of this?
Was this "OK" to most fans?
Were there not large groups of people raging over this?

Yea. Kind of explains itself. Once again, time constraint. So intentionally removing ROB is dumb. And time constraints are random and unguessable. So don't factor them into your roster. If you do... that's like insulting the development team by saying "you won't be able to do that much, you guys are too slow"

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Well in reality it was if you count Wario & Yoshi as part of the Mario family & the forbidden 7
Mario 7(Dr. Mario, Yoshi & Wario)
Zelda 7(Toon Zelda & Toon Sheik
Pokemon 7(Mewtwo, due the Prai_Mai data never was proven to be Plusle & Minun & could also be the data for random select)

so at 1 point in development it atleast was balanced

That is really stretching it..

 

[andimidna]

I realized something; alot of the characters leaked and announced were also found on the list for the "SSB Universe" documents:
King K Rool (Donkey Kong)
Zoroark (Pokemon)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
King Hippo (Punch Out)
Ridley (Metroid)
Prince Sable (Frogs the Bell Tolls)
Palutena (Kid Icarus)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Megaman (Megaman)
Crystal (Star Fox)
Slime (Dragon Quest)
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Sonic (Sonic)

I can't wait to play as Crystal.

 

[swordbreaker]

I was hoping somebody would say that.

Now let me ask you this....

How did that go down?
Were people ACCEPTING of this?
Was this "OK" to most fans?
Were there not large groups of people raging over this?

Yea. Kind of explains itself. Once again, time constraint. So intentionally removing ROB is dumb. And time constraints are random and unguessable. So don't factor them into your roster. If you do... that's like insulting the development team by saying "you won't be able to do that much, you guys are too slow"

Game still sold well, doesn't matter.

 

[Dravidian]

True dat!


Calm down there buddy. Let's not call each other names.



What I'm interested in is how the leaker would have faked that rock formation.

That was the first time we'd seen it, wasn't it?

Nope, it wasnt. There was actually a pic with just the background when they first announced battle field would be different on wii u and 3ds iirc

 

[Arcadenik]

I realized something; alot of the characters leaked and announced were also found on the list for the "SSB Universe" documents:
King K Rool (Donkey Kong)
Zoroark (Pokemon)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
King Hippo (Punch Out)
Ridley (Metroid)
Prince Sable (Frogs the Bell Tolls)
Palutena (Kid Icarus)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Megaman (Megaman)
Crystal (Star Fox)
Slime (Dragon Quest)
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Sonic (Sonic)

That's nice and all... but no Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Rosalina tells me that document was fake...

 

[ClubbyBear]

Well in reality it was if you count Wario & Yoshi as part of the Mario family & the forbidden 7
Mario 7(Dr. Mario, Yoshi & Wario)
Zelda 7(Toon Zelda & Toon Sheik
Pokemon 7(Mewtwo, due the Prai_Mai data never was proven to be Plusle & Minun & could also be the data for random select)

so at 1 point in development it atleast was balanced

Prai_Mai means Every Player so it was most likely Mii or Random Select

 

[Hinata]

Nope, it wasnt. There was actually a pic with just the background when they first announced battle field would be different on wii u and 3ds iirc

I believe this is the picture in question, right? Some of the mountains look similar, yes, but none of them are the exact same one we saw in the leak.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I realized something; alot of the characters leaked and announced were also found on the list for the "SSB Universe" documents:
King K Rool (Donkey Kong)
Zoroark (Pokemon)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
Little Mac (Punch Out)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment)
King Hippo (Punch Out)
Ridley (Metroid)
Prince Sable (Frogs the Bell Tolls)
Palutena (Kid Icarus)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Megaman (Megaman)
Crystal (Star Fox)
Slime (Dragon Quest)
Shulk (Xenoblade)
Sonic (Sonic)

I'd like this to be the final roster, but I know it's fake like long time ago.
Also Slime.

 

[ClubbyBear]

I believe this is the picture in question, right? Some of the mountains look similar, yes, but none of them are the exact same one we saw in the leak.

It's the magic of photoshop

Starting a leak timeline - If you have any leaks you know with the dates, just post it as a reply
http://your-leak-sucks.tumblr.com/timeline

 

[Hinata]

It's the magic of photoshop

Photoshop can't do anything and everything, man. I don't think it would've been easy to edit one of the mountains in a convincing manner.

 

[andimidna]

I believe this is the picture in question, right? Some of the mountains look similar, yes, but none of them are the exact same one we saw in the leak.

I was just about to post that. And this is true. The left rock formation had never been shown clearly.

 

[Miles Pierre]

That's nice, because none of that was in your post. I think it was more you couldn't follow the logic.

His source would likely be a part of the E3 staff and not a part of the development staff.

You're jumping to all sorts of conclusions. There is no way that you can figure out what position the leaker held from the information that was given. Don't be silly.

unless you know when Sal was tipped off, or exactly what the position of the leaker is you're making assumptions that will lead to incorrect conclusions. In fact Sal says this:

My point doesn't boil down to you're making assumptions so you must be wrong. My point boils down to you're making assumptions based off absolutely nothing so you're argument isn't sound.

I say it's pretty obvious what I'm saying here. He's jumping the gun on a lot of stuff and assuming he's right even though his premise is faulty. Maybe you could explain to me how an E3 leak means that the leaker is from the E3 presenters (what? How are you defending this) and not the developers. (Why is the leaker only between those two camps? Can't he have received the info from someone else?) Maybe you're right. I just can't seem to follow that logic because it's awfully presumptuous.

Of course there is no "definitive" proof that he's lying. What are we going to do? Strap him to a lie detector so we can see if he was telling the truth or not? The issues is that he made a prediction on a forum, then all of a sudden "I HAD A SOURCE THE WHOLE TIME GUYS. HONEST!" He claimed that the characters would be at E3 and then he said "NO, NINTENDO MUST HAVE PUSHED IT BACK." Now we are over 8 months deep and the next character was Rosalina (not even on the list_ and Little Mac, which everyone expected (yes, really popular characters get in. Do you think Sakurai threw a dart to pick Megaman?).

The stage disproves the leak because it shows that the intention was to always show Mac at a latter date. The Wii Fit and Megaman stages were never shown off until those character's trailers but the Punch-Out stage was there for everyone to see before any newcomer was really shown. It has since been decked out with Punch-Out stuff suggestion that stage was reworked. Sakurai wasn't going to show the stage and Mac all covered with "Smash," or even change the stage to Smash just so they don't have to show Little Mac then. It shows there was never a change of plan and that the intention was never to show off Mac at E3. This kills the rumor because the guy said he had info on the E3 reveals and the characters were to be at E3. The idea that the reveal was moved back doesn't make much sense.

With most rumors, there is skepticism. They are always questioned. With this one, it is taken on face value and nothing else. Even with more and more evidence that he never really knew anything. It is beleived by Pac-man supporters as one shot that their character might make it. It is believed by others as their mind cant fathom how he could have just gotten it right. People who believe this have had to jump though more and more hoops to have it fit and fall back on "How did he know WFT." At the same time, the major this that disproves it, the lack of an E3 reveal, is rationalized away or ignored. There is defiantly a double standard here.

...I don't know if I should even bother with the latter of this post. I just don't think there's any sort of reasoning with you.[/QUOTE]

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Johnknight1 Mentioned this before, everything but 75m was leaked for brawl in separate tidbits, the entire roster for melee was leaked beforehand, And there's also the pokemon x/y leaks that happened a few months prior.
Kinda wish the true leaks were easier to tell apart, though.

Truth be told 75M was actually leaked to someone I know on here who told me about it then, which is funny that I had information millions did not.

Also, according to this source I know, Brawl's advertising budget was about a $1 million, and Smash For the 3DS and Wii U is "22.5 million dollars", most of it aimed for Smash Wii U.

Also, Melee's roster leaked a bit early as well, Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3's roster leaked early (the same guy who confirmed the 4 character E3 thing is the guy who leaked that on GameFAQs), etc.

Alas, leaks are inevitable.

Nintendo, as the giant that it is, has much less room to make mistakes.

...ummm... leaks draw attention to a game, thus they are in a sense more likely to be good than not good, especially if the game is of a high quality.

 

[andimidna]

He's right though. Sakurai couldn't have edited that stage right before E3 just because he didn't feel like showing off Little Mac yet. That would have been a lot of work to get done fast before E3, which I'm sure puts stress on all of the developers. If Little Mac was supposed to be shown at E3 but was pushed back... they probably wouldn't have had time to change the stage under short notice and would've just kept the stage secret.

 

[swordbreaker]

Truth be told 75M was actually leaked to someone I know on here who told me about it then, which is funny that I had information millions did not.

Also, according to this source I know, Brawl's advertising budget was about a $1 million, and Smash For the 3DS and Wii U is "22.5 million dollars", most of it aimed for Smash Wii U.

Also, Melee's roster leaked a bit early as well, Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3's roster leaked early (the same guy who confirmed the 4 character E3 thing is the guy who leaked that on GameFAQs), etc.

Alas, leaks are inevitable.

...ummm... leaks draw attention to a game, thus they are in a sense more likely to be good than not good, especially if the game is of a high quality.

22.5 million? The hell? That can't be right.

 

[Aevin]

Prai_Mai means Every Player so it was most likely Mii or Random Select

As a Japanese speaker, I can say the idea of Pra_Mai meaning "every player" or "random select" is a HUGE stretch. First of all, if it was short for player it would be "prei" not "prai," and the word order isn't correct, either. Pra_Mai as "Plusle + Minun" on the other hand, is perfectly in line with how the Japanese like to abbreviate things (just like pokemon for pocket monsters), and fits the Japanese spelling and pronunciation of those characters perfectly. (Prasuru and Mainan).

 

[Miles Pierre]

He's right though. Sakurai couldn't have edited that stage right before E3 just because he didn't feel like showing off Little Mac yet. That would have been a lot of work to get done fast before E3, which I'm sure puts stress on all of the developers. If Little Mac was supposed to be shown at E3 but was pushed back... they probably wouldn't have had time to change the stage under short notice and would've just kept the stage secret.

He gave only two options from which the leak could have been passed on to Sal Romano. E3 Presenters or developers. I argue that that doesn't make sense. We have no idea if he got the info first hand, second hand, third hand etc. We know there are many industry insiders that leak information. It's their job. See CBOAT on Neogaf. He is, from what I understand, neither a developer or a presenter yet he leaks info to people all the time.

Secondly. Sakurai could have always had both prepared for whatever reason he deemed fit. Really I don't need to settle on any one reason as to WHY the stage changed when there could be a multitude -- and each explanation logical.

And yes, they would have had time to change it short notice as well. You're forgetting that Sakurai has tons of resources at his disposal and a couple of teams working on this game. I don't see how that would be impossible. I'm sure I can find examples of Big name studios cutting pretty simple gameplay in a short amount of time.

Let's be honest the only major differences are the logo (I can make a logo in less than a day and have. I can only imagine what a team of dedicated artists can do in a week +) and the words that travel around the stadium, which is a simple matter of changing a variable in your code to Var = "Smash Bros" to Var = "Punch Out"

 

[VermilionBird]

Wait... The guy who leaked the 3 characters at E3 was the one who leaked the MVC3 roster?
Well, I'd like to point you to BlazBlue. The same guy leaked info saying that the characters Relius Clover and Kokonoe were to be made as new playable characters with Relius revealed first and then Kokonoe following. Relius was indeed made playable but Kokonoe wasnt announced as playable until the next major installment. My point is, no one could have predicted Relius because he was scarcely seen in the game, but his Kokonoe prediction was wrong (with about 6 characters in between his leak and her reveal). His track record is fairly split, he gets a HECK of a lot of stuff dead on, but there are a few instances where he is wrong (Kokonoe standing as evidence).
Dont ask for a source unless you want me to scour the BlazBlue Wiki looking for a link, that could take forever...

 

[BindingBlade]

22.5 million? The hell? That can't be right.

Hey, they have to save the sinking ship.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

22.5 million? The hell? That can't be right.

I'm guessing that goes to the HD graphics. There's a reason why most indies go for old-school graphical styles. The models take more man hours to make and compile.

 

[Johnknight1]

22.5 million? The hell? That can't be right.

Note that this person is involved with an indie company that works with Nintendo, and he talks to developers. He's the one I got the info on 75M from, and he was dead right. Granted, he never got huuuuggggeeeee information, but he got information.

Also, I could be off a million (he could have said 23.5 million), but that's what he said, and I trust him.

Judging by the quality of the newcomer trailers, it doesn't seem crazy (yes, these trailers are a part of the marketing, and I bet all the trailers combined cost a few million). Smash Wii U and Mario Kart are gonna be featured on TV and internet ads like no Wii U games have.

These are games that could "win" Nintendo this console generation and they know it. Nintendo's goal is likely to get these games all up in our faces to make gamers "give in" and buy Wii U's, and they've done an excellent job with Smash Wii U's marketing thus far.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Wait... The guy who leaked the 3 characters at E3 was the one who leaked the MVC3 roster?
Well, I'd like to point you to BlazBlue. The same guy leaked info saying that the characters Relius Clover and Kokonoe were to be made as new playable characters with Relius revealed first and then Kokonoe following. Relius was indeed made playable but Kokonoe wasnt announced as playable until the next major installment. My point is, no one could have predicted Relius because he was scarcely seen in the game, but his Kokonoe prediction was wrong (with about 6 characters in between his leak and her reveal). His track record is fairly split, he gets a HECK of a lot of stuff dead on, but there are a few instances where he is wrong (Kokonoe standing as evidence).
Dont ask for a source unless you want me to scour the BlazBlue Wiki looking for a link, that could take forever...

No. From what I understand the guy who leaked the MvC3 roster is saying the E3 leak is legit.