SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[Orpheus2]

*sigh* Was the picture of Viridi today a coincidence...

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

*sigh* Was the picture of Viridi today a coincidence...

Probably not.

 

[Finalefireworker]

I think the biggest thing that people are overlooking about the model being original (or at least slightly different than existing models) is that it's not as hard as it used to be to do that. It's 2014, not 2006. The 3D skills people have, even directly in the context of Super Smash Bros with Project M, are pretty advanced. Making a brand new something for a fake leak isn't impossible. I mean, the Ness leak was a brand new 3D model that was way different than any existing 3D Ness. More so than this Palutena. The only difference is that it was a fake Dojo profile, not a 3DS screenshot. But had that picture even put into a 3DS with a black outline it would have been more believable that the static-posed Palutena.

The leaker didn't take a picture that included the bottom screen, likely because they didn't create any content for it. Palutena's pose is completely neutral, and so is Mario's, and while it's certainly a debug version of the game still in development one of these characters would have to be an AI that would not be posing for the camera. Yet both are at zero-input positions. Even the 3DS the photo is taken on - which is either an Animal
Crossing or European model - does not seem standard to development. Especially because there is zero reason that the game would be on an actual cartridge right now. The game is on a computer. Why would they print versions of a game still in development? That's the biggest red flag here. Games are not sent out to be printed until they are COMPLETE. Even for debugging, nobody is going to have a 3DS cartridge with an unfinished game on it. You could argue it's on the hard drive of the 3DS, but why? Why would that be? So you can test an unfinished game without any of the necessary software to address the problems that surface? That's nonsense, developers work with a toolkit on a computer. Where would they even GET the cartridge? They make it themselves? No way, that's done in a facility that isn't going to print ten copies.

Visually this leak is convincing. Conceptually it is unsound.

 

[JetpackX]

Probably not.

Sakurai discovered the leak....

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

Sakurai discovered the leak....

Yes, so it's not a coincidence - that's why I said probably not.

 

[Orpheus2]

Interesting points, Finalefireworker. I personally am still on #teamreal but thanks for providing sound arguements to the table.... it's very rational

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

I think the biggest thing that people are overlooking about the model being original (or at least slightly different than existing models) is that it's not as hard as it used to be to do that. It's 2014, not 2006. The 3D skills people have, even directly in the context of Super Smash Bros with Project M, are pretty advanced. Making a brand new something for a fake leak isn't impossible. I mean, the Ness leak was a brand new 3D model that was way different than any existing 3D Ness. More so than this Palutena. The only difference is that it was a fake Dojo profile, not a 3DS screenshot. But had that picture even put into a 3DS with a black outline it would have been more believable that the static-posed Palutena.

The leaker didn't take a picture that included the bottom screen, likely because they didn't create any content for it. Palutena's pose is completely neutral, and so is Mario's, and while it's certainly a debug version of the game still in development one of these characters would have to be an AI that would not be posing for the camera. Yet both are at zero-input positions. Even the 3DS the photo is taken on - which is either an Animal
Crossing or European model - does not seem standard to development. Especially because there is zero reason that the game would be on an actual cartridge right now. The game is on a computer. Why would they print versions of a game still in development? That's the biggest red flag here. Games are not sent out to be printed until they are COMPLETE. Even for debugging, nobody is going to have a 3DS cartridge with an unfinished game on it. You could argue it's on the hard drive of the 3DS, but why? Why would that be? So you can test an unfinished game without any of the necessary software to address the problems that surface? That's nonsense, developers work with a toolkit on a computer. Where would they even GET the cartridge? They make it themselves? No way, that's done in a facility that isn't going to print ten copies.

Visually this leak is convincing. Conceptually it is unsound.

Wow, never thought of that. I've been neutral to "real," but this is certainly something to consider.

 

[Orpheus2]

Well, the update is in a few minutes. Wonder what it will be? Only time will tell.

 

[FasdfGfaha]

Well, the update is in a few minutes. Wonder what it will be? Only time will tell.

Ridley confirmed

 

[Senselessbreak]

Leak from 4chan thread last night:

Spoiler

Hello, I have some info to share about Smash Bros
-Little Mac is playable
-Palutena is playable
-Chrom is playable
-Dixie is playable
-Ridley is playable
-lip is playable
-Takamaru is playable
-Mii is playable
-Pacman is playable
-Ultra Machine is playable

-Mewtwo returns
-All brawl characters return except snake


Lorr starcutter is a stage
Lumoise City is a stage
New Leaf island is a stage
Skyworld is a stage
Boxing Ring is little macs stage
Gang Plank Galleon is a stage

Mother brain is an assist trophy
Ashley is an assist trophy
Lucina is an assist trophy
Magnus is an assist trophy

Walugi returns
Isaac returns
Saki returns
Andross returns
Mr Resetti returns
Tingle Returns


fairy bottle is an item
cuckoo is an item
ultra hand is an item
Most old items get new designs

Going to search for the archive link

 

[Fullen]

OOMG GUYS FIRST PALUTENA AND THEN MESSI, SO MUCH LEAKS OMGGMOMGOMG

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYngzoKHSA

Underwhelming.

 

[PWN3]

Alfonzo has an outline...

...Now we have to decide if she's playable, or an Assist Trophy.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Alfonzo has an outline...

...Now we have to decide if she's playable, or an Assist Trophy.

This PotD means two things:
1) Characters appearing as part of the stage are not necessarily deconfirmed
2) NPC can have outlines......So now what does this mean for Palutena?

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

Alfonzo has an outline...

...Now we have to decide if she's playable, or an Assist Trophy.

No he doesn't.

 

[FasdfGfaha]

All aboard the hype train?

 

[PWN3]

No he doesn't.

It's not as pronounced, but it's there. Look at his left (our right) leg. You can see the outline easiest there.

 

[SlickWylde]

No he doesn't.

What is that black stuff around most of his edges then? It looks like an outline to me

 

[Soupenomics]

To me, it appears that he has an outline on his shirt and pants, but not so much on his skin, hat, or gloves.. Even if he does have an outline, its not as thick as Palutena's.

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

To me, it appears that he has an outline on his shirt and pants, but his skin doesn't. Even if he does have an outline, its not as thick as Palutena's.

You know, assuming that it is a black outline, I would agree, that it is significantly less prominent than Toon Link's, who is RIGHT BESIDE him.

 

[Johnknight1]

What exactly makes you say that it'll take over a year for refinements? We don't even know at what point all characters were finished, or how many workers that Namco has given to the cause. The only source we have is Sakurai saying that his goal for this year is to finish the games, and i trust that given the fact that there's no massive cut scene filled story mode to waste dev time on, this will have a simliar/lesser developement time to brawls.

We'll see if they bother giving us a released date anytime soon i guess.

My opinions on it are based on the following:
-The graphics for both games look fairly far away, and have several gigantic glaring issues, especially Smash 3DS.
-Sakurai sounded stressed about the "Planned Release: 2014".
-I doubt the (traditional) single-player modes have been fully fleshed out, because clearly the multiplayer is the focus (and rightfully so).
-Sakurai admitted about 6 months ago to having issues putting in the Ice Climbers and getting them to work.
-The technology is a lot bigger of a jump this time around. From Smash 64 to Melee, the HAL Laboratories crew already knew how to work with disc based media. From Melee to Brawl there wasn't much of a jump at all. This time they got a 3D-centric portable and a true 1080p next gen console, instead of a mere controller update and a bit better specs than the previous console.
-There's more characters than ever before.
-Brawl had tons of balancing issues, and the development team wants to iron those out. That's been a huge focus of development this time around. They don't want another Meta Knight (although is Diddy teams with Dixie, they will have another Meta Knight, although not as dreadful to fight against).

What if Sakurai leaked Palutena?

Several of us have thought this, and it isn't too crazy.

Regardless, he admitted before we ever got the first trailer he expects leaks, and we got the 3 newcomers in the trailer leaked a few hours beforehand, lol.

 

[Banjodorf]

As I was saying in the Palutena Support Thread, I think the outlines on Alfonzo are actually an effect of the light, rather than the way the character outlines work.

Why should one version of a stage element not have outlines, while another does? Why didn't Viridi have outlines? That, and once again, something like a stage element having outlines totally defeats their purpose.

 

[Johnknight1]

As much as this argument about Little Mac is tempting, I'm rather lacking in time to dedicate to it.

I wanted a classic "Golden destroys the universe" rant of great insight....

Pit wasn't actually a special case; Sakurai had no plans for a new Kid Icarus until a couple years after Brawl's release. What got Pit in was his popularity.
And no, neither Ridley or Mac were "skipped over twice".
That would imply that they were considered for both Melee and Brawl while being passed over for whatever reason.
The only previous game they could have been in is Brawl.

You know who was skipped over twice? Dedede. He was actually planned for the original Smash, and he (like Meta Knight) was held back from Melee since Sakurai wanted to emphasize other series that he didn't make.
By your logic, Dedede should not have been in Brawl. But he was.

It's one thing to disagree with the notion that Mac is a "shoe-in" (since, like you said, no one really is), it's another to try to claim the exact opposite.

THIS WAS EVERYTHING I DREAMED IT TO BE!!! THANK YOU BASED GOLDEN!!!!

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

First Viridi pic, now a pic to make people question NPC's outlines.


THIS is actual trolling, bravo Sakurai

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Dedede was my most wanted character for melee and brawl too

I would have loved him in Smash 64

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh! One last point I will make. Remember how many considered Balloon Fighter "dead" because of Animal Crosser having his hat?

Boxing Gloves. He has boxing gloves, something only Little Mac would have. And isn't Punch Out unlockable in an Animal Crossing? I know Balloon Fighter is, and that's why AC can use his balloons. Wouldn't the gloves not be there if Little Mac was in?

Apparently a basic one punch jab is the only boxing move to ever exist. Lunges, blocking, counter-striking, ropadope, overhand punches, uppercuts, heymakers, slices, multiple jab combos, hard jabs, quick jabs, footwork, in and out (and all about), going in heavy, spacing in, spacing out, body-body-head combos, head-head-body combos, etc. don't exist, along with millenniums of fist fighting history and centuries of boxing history that Little Mac would inherit don't matter.

That's not even me going into styles or approaches, like counter-striker, the classic Mexican wars, standing and banging, defensive fighters, accurate fighters, swinging from the fences, technicality, the classic Rocky "all heart", fighting "big", fighting "small", quickness first, power first, and so on.

Boxing is a deep, technical, and beautiful sport. Fight sports are my favorite sports, and I can tell you, nothing beats a big fight, and nothing tops a high level fighter. It's called "The Sweet Science" for a reason. Add in the arcade-y style of Punch-Out!!, and you got yourself some insane character potential.

(Man I wish I could give you all my boxing knowledge; my uncle, his father, his father, his father, his father, and his father, and perhaps further on were all professional boxers)

Also, the Tekken team is making this. Almost all of their characters are based around a martial art. What makes you think they wouldn't latch on to Little Mac=??? They've made terrific characters out of characters with a lot less to work with, and they've given them all like 100 moves, lol. They could easily get 5 aerials, 4 grab throws, 4 specials, 3 tilts, 3 smash attacks, a A move, a A-A-A (or whatever) combo, a grab move, a grab pummel, a getup attack, and a Final Smash, and have literally a dozen attack options on the table.

Besides, the E3 rumor all but confirms him, and this boxing ring stage proves that point even harder, along with Little Mac's increased popularity. Little Mac was the Assist Trophy most Smash fans agreed should be playable next time around. All of the "Top Grade Nintendo All-Stars" have already been playable in Smash (most of the last bunch in Brawl), sans obviously the Miis, Nintendogs, and K. Rool. It's time for the B and C-grade Nintendo stars like Ridley, Little Mac, and Shulk.

Everything points to Little Mac being playable. Literally everything.

 

[Johnknight1]

Edit: Wrong thread. My apologies.

 

[IsmaR]

Edit: Wrong thread. My apologies.

This is never the right thread.

 

[Johnknight1]

You are absolutely wrong in saying this is legitimate. Because its not. Nothing is until its confirmed officially, even if it is highly likely

Obviously you weren't around here when Melee or Brawl's rosters were leaked.
Or how literally every major detail of Brawl was leaked, including the full roster, item list, and stage list (although all of them had a "missing stage" that was 75M).
Or when a Nintendo made video had the icon heads for Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Ness on it.
Or when Brawl's intro was leaked, featuring Marth and Ness.
Or when the E3 3 newcomer (plus 3 other characters) were leaked.

True leaks happen all the time; accept it.

This is never the right thread.

That's why we're here I guess, lol!!!!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Earlier it was the "who gets to have what waifu" thread.

As I said before, I still think that time was much better than last night when it was the "Spongebob eating gifs" thread.

 

[Johnknight1]

I vote we make it the "every poster's avatar has an American flag" thread!

That and/or the Johnknight1 fan club!

What if Sakurai leaked Palutena?

Several of us have thought this, and it isn't too crazy.

Regardless, he admitted before we ever got the first trailer he expects leaks, and we got the 3 newcomers in the trailer leaked a few hours beforehand, lol.

 

[Kon]

First Viridi pic, now a pic to make people question NPC's outlines.


THIS is actual trolling, bravo Sakurai

Where is the problem with the outlines?
People should think first:
Viridi is clearly in the background so you can't hit Viridi and Viridi is throwing something at the stage.
However on the Spirit Track, the conductor who ever it is may be hit you or can get hit by any fighter on stage. Therefore it makes sense he has outlines.

No outlines = element of the background that can't hit you.
Outlines = element on the stage that can hit you.

Mystery solved.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm reading 15 pages of this thread to get back to pace on this thread.

This and Golden's posts and Banjodorf's posts alone made it totally worth it guys! HOLY CRAP!!!!

 

[shrooby]

insert very interesting analysis

For the sake of argument, I wanted to ask a friend of mine who is currently studying to become a game designer, and he had this to say:
(What he said is in white and what I said is in blue. Sorry that it's a long read.)

Spoiler

___, perhaps you would know more about this than I do...
someone discussing the Palutena photos pointed out that the pictures are on a 3DS.
Right.
Would the game be on a 3DS cartridge/harddrive at this point in development?
Well, that would depend on how they go about making the game.
If the game IS on a cartridge at this point, that means that the game is, at least, in a beta build, since an alpha build is when, like... everything is just basic, geometric shapes before models are inserted... or something like that.
When a game is in beta, yeah, I guess that's when people start playtesting it... and if that's the case...
It would be possible for it to be on a cartridge. At least, that's as much as I know. Bear in mind that I'm only starting my second semester.
HOWEVER, and additionally, if it IS in beta build... that would imply that the game might be near completion.
At least, in the sense of models.
Well, here's exactly what the person said on the subject:
*I copy-pasted exactly what you said here*
So, I suppose the question I have is...
Would "anyone have a cartridge with an unfinished game on it?"
Okay... that guy definitely knows what he's saying, and he's smart.... but...
First of all, during the Sakurai interview thing during E3 2013, Sakurai was clearly seen holding a 3DS with a capture unit to it. I don't think he was just pretending to play... chances are, the game was actually in the system.
You mean the developer direct?
But, second of all, that guy might be right. If there's as little data as the guy says that there is, then there's no point for it to be on a cartridge.
Yes, the developer direct.
However, it is common for developers to test games on a console quite often. That's why developer kits exist... and why *insert friend of ours* collects them.
Because sometimes, a game might run differently on a console than it might on a computer.
Here's what my first thought was.
And this was going to be a follow up question:
Okee dokey!
Would a computer be able to have the 3D capabilities?
If not, wouldn't it make more sense for 3DS games to be tested more often on the system?
Well, I believe 3D monitors exist, but... yes, you could be right.
But continue with what you were saying.
I can't confirm or deny whether or not these pictures are real, but if I had to prove that they were real... the game is clearly far enough to where it can be PLAYED, which may imply that it's already at a beta build, which could mean that all the major aspects are put into the game. The only thing that would need to be added after a beta build are fix-ups.
Well... my information might be wrong on that, but the point is, that guy is right, the game would have to be fairly far in development.
Animations for characters might not even be complete yet. But, the point of testing it on a 3DS instead of a computer is to see how the finished result will turn out.
As for "games not being sent out till their printed," that is only true for completed copies. Obviously game testers need a copy of the game.
The 3DS might look weird in the picture because, perhaps, it is a developer version. And I know that the guy said that it looks unusual in comparison to other developer versions, but hey... there exist various developer kits for different consoles.
But, developers test games on both a computer AND a console. The point of testing it on the console is to see how the game is looking. It's risky to make the whole game on a computer and then play it a console. It's a smarter move to see it on a console as development ensues, even if it is more time-consuming.
As for "getting a cartridge," Smash Bros. is a high budget game. I'm sure that they can get plenty of cartridges.
And, knowing Sakurai, he would take the latter route.
Exactly.
For example, I use a program called Unity. It's a game making program.
You have a scene... and a preview. The "preview" is how the game will look in the final version. But, you can still play the game through the scene.
The "scene" is... well, the scene. The level your in. Your setting.
In the "scene," you can adjust it however you want. But you CAN'T adjust anything in the "preview."
So, people will often play a game in the preview window, find a mistake, and fix it in the scene window. Then they might play it in the scene window to make sure everything in the background (or something that won't be seen in the preview window) is working.... does that make sense?
Basically, in this scenario, the "preview" would be the 3DS, and the "scene" would be the computer.
You gotta go back and forth to fix stuff. Just looking at the "scene," or the computer, doesn't guarantee that the game will look as pretty in the 3DS, or the "preview."
All you test on a computer is to make sure that stuff in the background works.
All you test on a console or handheld is to make sure that the game itself, or what the player will see when he/she buys the game, works.
So, pictures like that one of Pyrosphere that Sakurai said "is not accessible in-game" would be from the "scene," right?
Yeah!
Because he even said that that type of view was not accessible in game.
Now, of course, he took the picture off of a Wii U console.
How do you know?
Well... if he took the picture off of the computer, the quality would probably be higher, and/or show some other... stuff.
So, he probably messed with some coding and scripting on the camera to take that picture.
Ah, all right.
But, on his computer, he can do that with ease. Just by dragging his mouse around, he can get whatever view of the stage that he wants.
So, for example... let's use the Pyrosphere as an example. We see lava spewing and floating backgrounds, right? That's what we see in-game.
On a computer, Sakurai can look at more than that. Perhaps, behind the walls of the stage, there's probably just a floating particle effect spewing the lava, and maybe some random floating blocks or something.
But the player shouldn't be able to see those things. And that's the point of testing it on a console... at least, one of the main points.
Polygon count and stuff are also important. The game might run at perfect speed on a computer, but it might slow down on a console because of the polygon count. Computers are stronger than consoles, so you gotta test the game on a console to make sure that everything runs smoothly.
Loading times and player inputs also have to be tested on a console. Sure, you can play the game on a computer with whatever buttons you want, but you have to play the game on a console to make sure that everything "feels" right.
Basically, what I'm getting at is... people test stuff on consoles all the time.
So, it is likely that that was printed on a cartridge. And printing 10 beta cartridges shouldn't be a problem for a high-budget game like Smash Bros.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think if this ends up being fake it will be even more famous in Smash history because of how perfectly the job was done.

If these 2 photos are fake, then the creator of them need to be hired by Nintendo ASAP. They're super amazing looking.

Palutena's pose reminds me of Cassandra from Soul Calibur in them. I love playing as her. Add a staff and magic, and I suddenly am becoming a Palutena supporter. Strange, because I detested the support for Palutena up until this leak.

Of course most of that is because in 2010-2012 most people on the internet were thinking like 3-5 of the Smash Bros. 4 playable characters would be from Kid Icarus, which is, was, and forever is freaking ridiculous.

How crazy hype would you guys be if a direct was scheduled for Friday (revealed tomorrow)?

Spoiler

But then, Sakurai reveals a different newcomer

I would be okay with this, especially if it was Ridley or K. Rool, especially especially Ridley.

God help me I would so troll all the Ridley haters so hard if Ridley was confirmed as playable.

 

[papagenos]

wow another 3DS screenshot of a npc with an outline... alright ill admit it sakurai is totally trolling.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Sakurai has gone from decent troll in Smash 64, to great troll in Melee, to all-time troll in Brawl, to just Gabe Newell level trolling for Smash for the Wii U and 3DS.

The HD quality is going to be amazing. Imagine Final Smashes in picture perfect HD......

Smash 3DS and Wii U game isn't on the PC, so it won't run in 4K.

It's not wrong. Its not the perfect roster to me, lyn is scrapped, a dixie and diddy duo (why?), and ridley screwed again? plus some other things.

I can't wait until Feb 13th so that "leak" is finally proven false. I don't think diddy and dixie would be a duo.... I just don't. and I wouldn't like it, it feels off to me. Especially the backstory.

The Diddy/Dixie thing being more like Sheik/Zelda is more bearable, but still awful. Lyn being scrapped sucks in that too, and no Miis sounds doubtful.

As for Ridley, he is playable in that rumor.

There's also the chance some information was off; the initial Brawl roster leak was missing a character or two I think. Hopefully if there's an error, it's that Diddy and Dixie now team. That's seriously the worst idea ever. As if Diddy wasn't already good, and as if a more offensive game wasn't going to make him better, now he gets a teammate.

Can you say "tournament banned" and "developmental hell"=??? Seriously, separating the two would probably end up being a lot easier, cheaper, and less time consuming.

Tag team characters are the last duo that Smash hasn't used. Quite frankly, it would be better if the two characters had the same moves but were opposites. That's why I suggest the Baby Mario Bros. or Plusle and Minun, where one could have say a fast up Smash, whereas the other one has a strong up Smash.

(the other unused team concept is a group of characters attacking together, but that's probably not all that possible on a 3DS)

 

[RhymesWithEmpty]

As I was saying in the Palutena Support Thread, I think the outlines on Alfonzo are actually an effect of the light, rather than the way the character outlines work.

Why should one version of a stage element not have outlines, while another does? Why didn't Viridi have outlines? That, and once again, something like a stage element having outlines totally defeats their purpose.

This.

Pretty sure Alfonzo does not have outlines, guys. There are, at the very least, parts of him that are outline free, which would seem to be inconsistent with character outlines, even if they do vary in thickness. It's just shadows at the edges of his clothes, a trick of the lighting. Really, why would he have outlines when we know that conductor Link doesn't?

If you look at this picture, you can see some shadows around the edges of conductor Link as well, particularly his boots and the underside of his gloves. It's just a bit harder to read as shadows on Alfonzo because he's much smaller in his pic, which kills a lot of the details and makes it look like an outline instead.

Basically, a lot of you are freaking over nothing

 

[soviet prince]

Just caught up,

from the evidence I seen the pics are real but what does this say about the release date since how would someone get ahold of this without the game being sent out for translation/playtesting

 

[AEMehr]

pics must be real

sakurai had to have posted them to hype up game because he couldnt do anything special for smash's anniversary

nintendo should have a nintendo direct (wii u focused would be nice) aired soon because fans are getting worried that nintendo has been talking about their mistakes with the wii u this past week and should let us know that they can and will get on top of everything

C'mon Nintendo you can get it together. The name is Nintendo, not Nintendon't (contrary to the popular belief of the Sega fanbase of the late 80's).

---Something Actually Relevant---
Also, I agree with the notion that the "outlines" on Alfonzo are most likely just weird shadows. The guy is ported from the DS game after all.

BUT, this does bring up a thought to my head. Somebody earlier posted a supposed leak that involved a list of character models in the game's file because somebody somehow got access to that. Was Alfonzo listed in there, or was it Wii U character models exclusive?