Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Thread - Main Post

EleH

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So, any body got tips for the Yoshi and Toon Link MU's? Finding Toon Link specifically really hard.
 

theparadox

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Yoshi can be a bit tricky, what you want to do in this match up is be a bit more patient then usually, position yourself in spots where you can counter yoshi aerials they like to throw out. Falco dash attack is a good punish but dont be too predictable, don't respect yoshi's egg toss to much. When your close make good use of jabs, jab jab to grabs and down tilt. For toon link, you want to be a bit more aggressive you don't want him comfortable setting up on you with bombs and arrows, you want to space your aerials and try to get alot of grabs that's where most of falcos damage come from. Lasers are pretty useless in this against these two so try not to use them to much, only when they are off stage.
 
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EleH

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Yoshi can be a bit tricky, what you want to do in this match up is be a bit more patient then usually, position yourself in spots where you can counter yoshi aerials they like to throw out. Falco dash attack is a good punish but dont be too predictable, don't respect yoshi's egg toss to much. When your close make good use of jabs, jab jab to grabs and down tilt. For toon link, you want to be a bit more aggressive you don't want him comfortable setting up on you with bombs and arrows, you want to space your aerials and try to get alot of grabs that's where most of falcos damage come from. Lasers are pretty useless in this against these two so try not to use them to much, only when they are off stage.
Gotcha, thanks a lot!
 

Raimakusa

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Yoshi can be a bit tricky, what you want to do in this match up is be a bit more patient then usually, position yourself in spots where you can counter yoshi aerials they like to throw out. Falco dash attack is a good punish but dont be too predictable, don't respect yoshi's egg toss to much. When your close make good use of jabs, jab jab to grabs and down tilt. For toon link, you want to be a bit more aggressive you don't want him comfortable setting up on you with bombs and arrows, you want to space your aerials and try to get alot of grabs that's where most of falcos damage come from. Lasers are pretty useless in this against these two so try not to use them to much, only when they are off stage.
I actually went to my first tournament yesterday and got completely bodied by a very aggressive Yoshi. From the Yoshi-Falco matchup thread I recall that Falco is more suited to staying on the ground in this matchup, but I just could not get away and reset the neutral since Yoshi was always on me and trapping me with dairs and utilts and uair strings. Is there a way I can counter this, or is just about getting more experience with countering an aggressive playstyle? I'd never experienced that kind of play before.
 

theparadox

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I actually went to my first tournament yesterday and got completely bodied by a very aggressive Yoshi. From the Yoshi-Falco matchup thread I recall that Falco is more suited to staying on the ground in this matchup, but I just could not get away and reset the neutral since Yoshi was always on me and trapping me with dairs and utilts and uair strings. Is there a way I can counter this, or is just about getting more experience with countering an aggressive playstyle? I'd never experienced that kind of play before.
I think it comes down to you needing more experience with aggressive play styles. What I can say is try not to feel overwhelmed or intimidated by Yoshi players who are really aggressive. Take trades if you have to anything which can help slow down the pace, and stop the player from dictating the game. Take advantage of any moments where Yoshi is above you Falco's nair and up air are pretty good anti airs, you can also try to bait out down b's and punish with grabs. Falco gets a lot off his grabs so try to space yourself well and don't slack on your punishes, they are very important in this match up. And if you need to retreat or reset the neutral you can short hop phantasm but don't over do it.
 

Raimakusa

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I think it comes down to you needing more experience with aggressive play styles. What I can say is try not to feel overwhelmed or intimidated by Yoshi players who are really aggressive. Take trades if you have to anything which can help slow down the pace, and stop the player from dictating the game. Take advantage of any moments where Yoshi is above you Falco's nair and up air are pretty good anti airs, you can also try to bait out down b's and punish with grabs. Falco gets a lot off his grabs so try to space yourself well and don't slack on your punishes, they are very important in this match up. And if you need to retreat or reset the neutral you can short hop phantasm but don't over do it.
Yeah that's what I figured. I'm coming from a "For Glory Scrub" background, so I've never met players that quick. I did notice that I would get some breathing room when I would phantasm away, but I would panic and not know what to do once I got away. I'll make sure to use more nairs and uairs; I tried using utilt to counter his aerial approaches but looking back that probably wasn't a great idea since it always left me wide open.
 

WispBae

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Hey there, you pigeons!

The Doggy forums are currently discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on this picture to illusion over to our thread (or else we will put our paws on your bread!!!)
 

dao

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what are peoples thoughts on the rosalina matchup, i think its 7-3 maybe 8-2 rosalina's favor FREE. In this matchup Falco loses all his means of approaching, Grab combos mean nothing because of luma and chasing her down offstage is really tough let alone that falcos Fair spike got nerfed getting a kill on this character is a struggle. If anyone got any tips for this ridiculous character it would be much appreciated.
Unplug controller, pray, and go have something to eat. Rosalina is a ridiculous match up for Falco.
 

BlazingRamen

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The Rosa isn't THAT bad. Falco has plenty of tools for getting rid of Luma quickly, such as Fair onstage, and many other ways to dispose of him. There's a reason why FOW chooses Falco for the Rosa matchup, although I'd say it's definitely in her favor still. And edgeguarding Rosa isn't that hard. No hitbox on her up b is makes her pretty much fair game. (pun not indented) Also, you're responding to a comment that's over a year old.
 

Ershrek

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Anybody have info against a Falco-Pikachu MU?

2 of my mortal enemies are Sonic and Pikachu and I would like help with at least Pikachu since I see a Sonic-Falco MU thread.

If anybody cares, I found out mixing up your side-b's really throws Sonic players off when they are charging their spindashes. Doing a side-b twice or even thrice in a row was confusing my opponent. It's a great escape tool that occasionally deals damage if Sonic players get caught in it.
 

Ffamran

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Anybody have info against a Falco-Pikachu MU?

2 of my mortal enemies are Sonic and Pikachu and I would like help with at least Pikachu since I see a Sonic-Falco MU thread.

If anybody cares, I found out mixing up your side-b's really throws Sonic players off when they are charging their spindashes. Doing a side-b twice or even thrice in a row was confusing my opponent. It's a great escape tool that occasionally deals damage if Sonic players get caught in it.
Check the Pikachu MU discussion: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...ikachu-bad-day-to-be-part-flying-type.400541/ and the Sonic MU discussion: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-32-sonic-good-ol-blues.402114/. Problem is Falco's not a common character people fight... neither is Pikachu, but when people don't encounter Falco much, there's not much of a reason to learn how to fight him. For Falco players, this is a problem when we can't get their sides of the story to learn about MUs.
 

Korrin

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For sonic - don't be afraid to zone him with lasers and jumping, fade-away reflectors. Grounded reflectors can stop a low approach as well. The key to this matchup is never approach. Sonic has no projectiles and your laser can force him to approach if you toss out 2-3 every time he's at a distance. Shield is pretty safe against spin moves because you can't be grabbed unless he stops, be wary of homing attack (try to spot dodge it instead of shield).
Falcos nair beats sonics neutral and possibly his side special.
 

ToTs

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I played a really good Greninja on Anther's Ladder last night. My first Greninja ever, put simple, I got bodied. I say that but the games were all pretty close and I managed to get one game lol.

-It was very hard to keep Greninja out, on top of escaping his combos. (Tried: PP Dtilts, laser, reflector) Dtilt worked tons better for spacing and punishing.

- Jab didn't work well either. All variations of jab ended with me mostly getting shielded later or punished even if I hit him.

-Down throw would send him at this crazy low angle. Couldn't follow up with Nair or RAR Bair, or even a simple dash attack.

I started relying on Falling Fair mix ups, that only got me so far.

So my Falco brothers and Sisters, share with me your knowledge. What is the optimal way to play against Greninja?
 

BlazingRamen

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I don't really know much about greninja, but fastfallers can just DI down and tech dthrow. Use upthrow against them instead.
 
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Ffamran

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I played a really good Greninja on Anther's Ladder last night. My first Greninja ever, put simple, I got bodied. I say that but the games were all pretty close and I managed to get one game lol.

-It was very hard to keep Greninja out, on top of escaping his combos. (Tried: PP Dtilts, laser, reflector) Dtilt worked tons better for spacing and punishing.

- Jab didn't work well either. All variations of jab ended with me mostly getting shielded later or punished even if I hit him.

-Down throw would send him at this crazy low angle. Couldn't follow up with Nair or RAR Bair, or even a simple dash attack.

I started relying on Falling Fair mix ups, that only got me so far.

So my Falco brothers and Sisters, share with me your knowledge. What is the optimal way to play against Greninja?
Check here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-44-greninja-that-aint-slippy.405264/, and the Greninja boards. I don't remember when they discussed the MU, but you could use the search bar and search for "Falco" in their boards.

Also, everyone, I've updated the directory: http://smashboards.com/threads/all-aircraft-report-falco-directory.398704/, with all the links to the MU discussion in the MU section and I also inserted it into the first post made by Legend Vermillion Legend Vermillion . So, if you want to discuss a character, then check either the directory or the first post and click a link. Some characters don't even have discussions yet like the Pits who I find to be one of Falco's tougher MUs and I believe Shulk doesn't have much discussion and while Shulk isn't a common threat, he is tough for Falco.
 

Galgatha

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So I keep having a very difficult time with this 1 C Falcon that I fight every now and then, he is very agressive and so am I, but I cant seem to hit him at all. Any and all advice on how to deal with C Falcon (especially an agressive one) is hugely appreciated!!
 

Snipnigth

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So I keep having a very difficult time with this 1 C Falcon that I fight every now and then, he is very agressive and so am I, but I cant seem to hit him at all. Any and all advice on how to deal with C Falcon (especially an agressive one) is hugely appreciated!!
Think a bit on what your doing wrong, falco can really do a number con cfalcon, you can gimp him easily combo him like no other, the only problome here is his speed, you will never match his speed so its better to let him come to you and be prepared to punish him hard, try ti make his moves wiff and punish that and do lots of nairs and bairs out of shield when he hits your shield....you need good reflexes for this machup since his so fast its hard to react on time, lasers in this matchup are good too, but only from far away, if he is close to you even if the laser hits him he will be able to get to you and punish, and dont try to trade with him he will almost always win the trade.
 
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Galgatha

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Thanks, I tend to lose to him for a few reasons. 1) he has a wii u and I do not, so I get no home practise lol. The only practise I get before the small tournament is the few friendlies beforehand. 2) I am not familiar with the match-up. But next time I go up against him I will try the bairs out of shield. Obviously this would be a short hop fast fall bair correct?
 

Snipnigth

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Thanks, I tend to lose to him for a few reasons. 1) he has a wii u and I do not, so I get no home practise lol. The only practise I get before the small tournament is the few friendlies beforehand. 2) I am not familiar with the match-up. But next time I go up against him I will try the bairs out of shield. Obviously this would be a short hop fast fall bair correct?
you can cancel your droping shield animation by short hoping, and yes you short hop and bair or nair (nair is very good out of shield comes out at frame 2) instantly then fastfall, vs small characters tho youll have to fastfall then bair for the move to hit.....you can also try and trade your bair with his dash attack, bair beats that move but you need good timing.
 
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anyone got tips for the rosalina matchup?
Don't be above her. Use side b to help you land and try to keep luma gone as much as possible. She's kinda light so you will be able to kill quicker with back throw and up throw set ups. Also try to get her off stage and try to land a down air or side b when she uses her very punishable recovery. Don't try to out camp her or use neutral b very much.

So, any body got tips for the Yoshi and Toon Link MU's? Finding Toon Link specifically really hard.
Lots of reflecting lol. Toon link is tough just avoid and reflect his multiple projectiles. Yoshis eggs will be annoying unless you reflect and don't get hit by fair. Stay below or above him. You'll out range him with up air and dair but loose to fair and bair. This is the other way around for toon link

im trying to learn Falco, but is there any optimal button layout for him cause i dont know.
I have a gamecube controller so you know.
I'd say default. Use his up throw most for combos. Down throw is good for early jab locks and early up smashes but not much else.
 
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Ffamran

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Snipnigth Snipnigth , this thread exists... and it's dead. Have you tried looking for MU spreads of Falco? Not ones on Eventhubs, they're kind of terrible... I remember two, one from Daybreak and one from Oji. Lurked on Twitter...

Daybreak's MU spread.

Oji's Falco MU spread.

I don't know or remember if Cyro, Gamegenie, Keitaro, MacDareth, MASA, Omnaoto, Quilly, etc., have made one either by themselves or through a group discussion. What I will say will probably be something a lot of people won't agree with -- I am a pessimist after all. My only input is in regards to Falco, he has more disadvantageous MUs than Daybreak and Oji listed -- I can also say this for other MU spreads I've seen like some for Samus and Zelda's that makes them look like mid- to even high-tier. There are some number meaning issues, but I honestly feel like Falco has at least 10 gatekeepers and at least 20 -2 / 30:70 / disadvantage / bad / whatever you want to call it MUs. First off, having bad MUs is fine. It really is. There are certain characters, certain archetypes that just beat characters. It's not uncommon for say, a zoner to be beaten by a character who deal with a zoner and it's not a bad thing that one character traditionally beats a character like Balrog always having a problem with Zangief. It is, of course, bad if most of your MUs are bad.

If you are looking to win by any means necessary and be on a level like 9B, Abadango, Ally, Larry Lurr, M2K, Nairo, Rain, Ranai, Trela, VoiD, ZeRo, etc., then I suggest dropping Falco and picking up someone else. If you're looking to just be the best Falco player like how DKWill, ESAM, whoever else is trying to be the best DK, Pikachu, etc., player, if you're looking to just have fun, or you really like and want to stand by Falco, then okay, stick with him, but also know there are limitations.
 
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Gamegenie222

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I never worked on a Falco mu chart yet cause I never played all the mu's yet and not confident in making one also haven't been using Falco much in tourney lately( Mostly Corrin,Robin & Roy) cause I've been working on tilt stick lately but I'm starting to work on Falco again and mess with step dash and PP stuff.
 
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