Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Thread - Main Post

[Gambino]

I see a lot of you have problems facing DK, and I agree that he is a hard character to deal with.

First I must say that I am no professional in any way, i think that I'm above average but not near tournament level. I've had some success fighting some guys way better than me with Falco, but I think that's just because nobody's used to fighting him.

I've had some success in fighting dk. A general tip for Falco is to get the opponent in the air, since 2 of his areals are amazing and 2 solid. Especially dk has a tough time landing without getting punished in this game. You can score some fine multiple uairs in the beginning of a match. Also, if you see dk charging an attack (or any character for that matter), interrupt it immediately with a single laser shot from a far.

You don't want to stay to close to dk, and lasers are good for annoying him. Also try to push him of the ledge with the reflector. Using side + b slighty above to air to slice through dk and land at a safe distance behind him is a pretty good method of dealing with him. The little landing lag of that move should met you either runaway, down smash or bait do if he tries to dash attack or grab you. I am surprised how often that trick works, side+b:ing through your opponent, landing directly behind them and then immediately down smashing before they can punish you. AND DON'T DASH ATTACK HIM IF HE's backed up against the edge!!!! He will just shield grab you and throw you off, and it kills early especially of he's in rage. Also try not to get predictable with your landing, or else u will get f'd up.

Don't shield do too much, it's better to stay at a safe distance and approach with causion. Dk is a beast against shields, and he's pretty fast so he can **** u up pretty badly if you try to punish out of shield. I think that tip is even in the game if I am not mistaken. AND DON'T DASH ATTACK HIM IF HE's backed up against the edge!!!! He will just shield grab you and throw you off, and it kills early especially of he's in rage.

Jiggly is definitely a lot easier to deal with. Jiggs players mostly approach with areals so that gets pretty predictable. Shine does wonders, and down tilt aswell. Basically any move that out ranges Jiggs is good, and down tilt kills her super early. Jab cancel into grab or down tilt is pretty good. Just don't get to close, cuz that will just net Jiggs a Rest ko. So be careful with that dash attack. Side b cuts through her and she's to slow to punish you if used correctly.

Try not to get thrown of stage, that nair is nasty. Try to go for that star ko with Falcons uair, it's pretty sweet, also fake her out and go for the bair instead every so often. Fair lasts long and can challenge some of Jiggs areals. What I like to do when Jiggs tries to get back on stage is first jumping towards them and then jumping backwards while using fair immediately after (I think that it's called buffering). This will troll your opponent pretty good and they will either try to attack you, air dodge or jump upwards and all of those options are covered by the fair since it lasts so long.

 

[Snackss]

Are there no threads or comments for Marth and Shulk yet? Falco isn't very good at getting in, and these two both outrange him noticeably.

 

[Ffamran]

Are there no threads or comments for Marth and Shulk yet? Falco isn't very good at getting in, and these two both outrange him noticeably.

Cool, I was waiting for requests since Sheik and Meta Knight were the only one left that was requested. So, I could do something like Sheik and Marth and Meta Knight and Shulk since it might be boring to talk about two spacing characters at once. Also, there was an early Lucina discussion on their boards while the Greninjas forgot we existed...

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

If we're setting up more requests, I want to ask for Luigi and Pikachu if possible. Pika's been a real pain in my rear, and I fought a good Luigi a while back that made me wonder if I could've done better by knowing the matchup better.

 

[Ffamran]

If we're setting up more requests, I want to ask for Luigi and Pikachu if possible. Pika's been a real pain in my rear, and I fought a good Luigi a while back that made me wonder if I could've done better by knowing the matchup better.

Luigi's 22 and Pikachu's 25 because reasons that involve their numbers.

 

[Zionaze]

Marth is that one character I can't ever seem to get around. Tipper or no tipper, Marth and Lucina are my most feared MU with Falco.

 

[SoundChow]

Personally, I think the Falco-Marth matchup is 50-50. I play Bonk a lot who mains Marth, and I think the matchup basically comes down on getting reads.

For starters, Marth has two grab follow-ups. Forward-throw to f-air, and down-throw to tipper u-air/b-air at low percents. These aren't true combos depending on rage and DI, so it's possible for Falco to airdodge before the follow-up. If Marth reads the airdodge, he can get a charged jc-upsmash so you have to be careful (jump out if you have time). Be patient when juggling Marth in the air, do a full hop, wait a little bit to see if they'll airdodge/counter, and then use your second hop to bair him.

In neutral you'll see him use dancing blade (on the ground or from a short-hop), which you'll have to shield (get in the habit of using shield more than spot-dodge because dancing blade is a safe poke). Be careful with spamming shield because of shieldbreaker, but keep in mind that you can powershield it and that it's almost always used when Marth's coming down from the air. Marth has a higher priority/range aerial game because of his sword, but keep in mind that all of his aerials have decent endlag (except nair).

What Falco has in this matchup are better damage-dealing combos (up-throw to u-air/bair, down-throw to nair/bair), faster frame data (safe jab, quick aerials), laser pressure, and a slightly better edgeguarding game. I'd say that they have even ledge trumps. To win this matchup, don't challenge Marth's aerials in neutral. If he plays a good spacing game, short hop u-air is unsafe to throw out randomly. Play paciently with lasers, get grabs and follow-up with aerials, bait out airdodges/counter, and make your gameplay more ground-based in neutral. This is the extent of my matchup knowledge, but I hope you guys find it useful.

 

[Ffamran]

Would anyone be against a ditto MU thread? People know how to play their characters, but people might not know how to play against their characters in a ditto.

Also, I want to make a MU index thread which might be redundant, but I don't want to mess with Legend Vermillion's stuff like adding links onto his main post. Even though I can, it just feels wrong. It'll be a temporary one unless he doesn't show up anymore. So, this thread will remain as the requests and general MU discussion thread while the other one is an index for... maybe everything to make it more useful.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I feel like a ditto MU thread isn't high on the list of priorities simply because of how rare the chance of two Falcos fighting each other is, let alone Falco in a tournament. I wouldn't mind it, but I'd rather we take care of high-tier matchups first (we still need to talk about the dreaded monkey and the ftilting, fairing ninja one of these days, after all.)

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had to do a Falco ditto before. I'm gonna start looking for some Falco mains I know to test it out.

 

[Zionaze]

at first I thought u were talking about greninja and I was like does greninja ever Ftilt?
Tbh dittos is the best way to find out how much you understand your own character.

 

[Ffamran]

I feel like a ditto MU thread isn't high on the list of priorities simply because of how rare the chance of two Falcos fighting each other is, let alone Falco in a tournament. I wouldn't mind it, but I'd rather we take care of high-tier matchups first (we still need to talk about the dreaded monkey and the ftilting, fairing ninja one of these days, after all.)

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had to do a Falco ditto before. I'm gonna start looking for some Falco mains I know to test it out.

I know, it's one of those things where I might just throw it out if nobody requests anything. Sheik and Shulk will be this week, then Marth, Meta Knight, and Ike because well, Marth and MK were requested while Ike is there because of a reference involving the three, caped swordsmen and swordblob.

I've had several Falco dittos and although they were all online, it feels like any other ditto MU, all about skill, but that said, we should figure out what Falco can do against another Falco. A hypothetical example is that U-throw might not work on Falco at higher percents because he can jump even higher than the Falco on the ground. Then there's attacks clanking which is why I felt like the Falco vs. Fox MU is even because they're similar, but they work differently like Ryu and Ken. As for looking for Falco dittos: this is why we have this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

at first I thought u were talking about greninja and I was like does greninja ever Ftilt?
Tbh dittos is the best way to find out how much you understand your own character.

I don't even know if Greninja has a confirmed gender

Dittos are really good for understanding how to fight your character, but so is fighting your character with everyone whose game plan isn't "dash grab -> dthrow -> uair/fair -> win." I learned plenty about Falco just asking the people who play me what they think of fighting him. I'm sure his ditto is full of weaving in and out like an avian boxing match relying on fundamentals.

Then again, I'm kinda curious as to whether Falco would need new tricks to fight himself. If a Falco main knows how to gimp, he should know how to avoid getting gimped too, along with how to DI Falco's throws to avoid the laser follow-ups and how to space to get the magnificent bair.

I'd still rather talk about everyone else first because Falco dittos almost never happen and we gotta get the real matchups done first IMO.

 

[warionumbah2]

caped swordsmen and swordblob.

GOD

sword-God.

 

[Ffamran]

I don't even know if Greninja has a confirmed gender

Dittos are really good for understanding how to fight your character, but so is fighting your character with everyone whose game plan isn't "dash grab -> dthrow -> uair/fair -> win." I learned plenty about Falco just asking the people who play me what they think of fighting him. I'm sure his ditto is full of weaving in and out like an avian boxing match relying on fundamentals.

Then again, I'm kinda curious as to whether Falco would need new tricks to fight himself. If a Falco main knows how to gimp, he should know how to avoid getting gimped too, along with how to DI Falco's throws to avoid the laser follow-ups and how to space to get the magnificent bair.

I'd still rather talk about everyone else first because Falco dittos almost never happen and we gotta get the real matchups done first IMO.

I don't think any of the Pokémon have confirmed genders. We just assume or say what fits us.

There's also customs which means a custom could be used to counterpick another or something.

GOD

sword-God.

That's Shulk.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

If anyone wants to get smashing I'm up for that right now.

Falco dittos would be mype.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

If anyone wants to get smashing I'm up for that right now.

Falco dittos would be mype.

Isn't that what the friend code thread is for? I would bite, but I'm not available to play right now, too busy playing Kirby and theorycrafting on Smash forums.

 

[SoundChow]

If anyone wants to get smashing I'm up for that right now.

Falco dittos would be mype.

I'd be up to doing a few 1v1's. I think I sent you my NNID.

 

[Ffamran]

I don't remember if I ever mentioned this, but the MU discussions are ongoing, so if you have something to say, want to argue (in a positive way), or you found something new, then go ahead. None of these discussions are limited to one week; it's just that after every week, I introduce new discussions that are requested or not since sometimes people don't, so I have to figure out one... DK and Diddy will be together some week later... Maybe after Ike and Luigi's and before Pikachu and someone's. Hmm... I might make a MU discussion today to make them fit...

Edit: Nah, Ike will be with Marth and Meta Knight while Ness and Luigi will fit the bill with DK and Diddy after them, and Pikachu and someone...

 

[Legend Vermillion]

Would anyone be against a ditto MU thread? People know how to play their characters, but people might not know how to play against their characters in a ditto.

Also, I want to make a MU index thread which might be redundant, but I don't want to mess with Legend Vermillion's stuff like adding links onto his main post. Even though I can, it just feels wrong. It'll be a temporary one unless he doesn't show up anymore. So, this thread will remain as the requests and general MU discussion thread while the other one is an index for... maybe everything to make it more useful.

Long time I didn´t come here! You have all my permission to edit my main post, sir Anyway, I have seen that Falco Community has been creating a lot of MU content in this subforum (I want to read it so bad atm!), I can link all related threads to the main post aswell as making the pictures if people want. Just tell me, guys!

 

[Ffamran]

Long time I didn´t come here! You have all my permission to edit my main post, sir Anyway, I have seen that Falco Community has been creating a lot of MU content in this subforum (I want to read it so bad atm!), I can link all related threads to the main post aswell as making the pictures if people want. Just tell me, guys!

Hell yeah! You're back. Thing is I don't want to do everything since that's not what a community is.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Long time I didn´t come here! You have all my permission to edit my main post, sir Anyway, I have seen that Falco Community has been creating a lot of MU content in this subforum (I want to read it so bad atm!), I can link all related threads to the main post aswell as making the pictures if people want. Just tell me, guys!

If you made pictures that would make things super convenient. Hell, I could photoshop some renders onto a blue background using MS Paint if you're too tired, that's how much I want pictures.

Welcome back!

 

[Douchuumen]

Any thoughts on the Shulk matchup? I've only seen one post here about it.

 

[Ffamran]

Any thoughts on the Shulk matchup? I've only seen one post here about it.

Yeah... The thread, http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-17-shulk-air-slashers.395131/, only had NotAnAdmin saying anything.

I haven't fought a lot of Shulks as Falco and I guess the rest of us and the Shulks at the Shulks board haven't either.

 

[SoundChow]

Any thoughts on the Shulk matchup? I've only seen one post here about it.

I think the matchup is better for Shulk. His attacks outrange ours, his nair is incredible, and he becomes extremely mobile with his monados. Lack of range is something Falco really struggles with, as well as being relatively slow and needing to play a patient game, so I see Shulk definitely having the upper hand.

 

[Ffamran]

I think the matchup is better for Shulk. His attacks outrange ours, his nair is incredible, and he becomes extremely mobile with his monados. Lack of range is something Falco really struggles with, as well as being relatively slow and needing to play a patient game, so I see Shulk definitely having the upper hand.

Why didn't you say anything in that thread?

 

[SoundChow]

Why didn't you say anything in that thread?

I'm not too familiar with the matchup, I'm kind of just theory crafting. I also think that the main post Falco matchup is more informal than the specific character thread so I like to reply here more often.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not too familiar with the matchup, I'm kind of just theory crafting. I also think that the main post Falco matchup is more informal than the specific character thread so I like to reply here more often.

The specific threads are informal too. Ratios aren't tracked and it's probably not going to be until a while since the game's still young and many people haven't fought enough of everyone.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Hey Ffamran, will we ever cover the Mii Fighters as a matchup? I feel like the meta is leaning towards making them legal, and despite their relative obscurity I still think it's a matchup worth discussing. What do you think? Will the three types have their own threads?

 

[Ffamran]

Yes, but nobody's requested them until now, but I don't know if many people know the MU. And yes, they'll have separate threads.

 

[B_Rocka]

It's the same with Peach, Duck Hunt, Wario, and even Diddy. Oh, and there's the Mii Fighters, but that's because they're not allowed in For Glory or even For Fun of all places. One thing is that her range and mobility makes it difficult to fight her especially if she takes Falco to the air where he can't move well.

I need help with Peach as well, i play with a friend who mains peach, but he just kind of throws out hitboxes , all of which are very hard to punish. here are some things ive learned

Shielding peach's dash attack is an alright move, but be ready for her very fast follow up with her jab as her dash has very little ending lag. in this scenario i either hold shield or shield the dash and roll back .

NEVER approach her from above, this is especially frustrating for falco because ,well...BAIR. I suggest only shorthopping bair (and occasionally fair)on peach otherwise you get a face full of upsmash which always gets me somehow.

When peach is floating at all, just keep away or shield, respect that she has the advantage and can throw out her fair which is very easy to sweetspot and kill EARLY(but very readable if youre on point), Dair which comes out fast and usually sets up nicely for her to follow up, and bair which is very fast.

her turnip game is really no problem for falco , except off ledge, just keep it in the back of your mind so you dont get gimped using up special or side special.

her forward smash is probably the most infuriating for me, it comes out fast, it ends fast and it can also kill very early if charged. Also with that there are of course 3 versions of her forward smash, all of which have slightly shorter or larger hitboxes(correct this if i am wrong), best just to stay away from this as well unless you can identify the type of f-smash she has out and can adjust accordingly.

All in all its a campy defensive game for us falcos where you wait for an opening, most exploitable moves in my opinion are of course her counter, her side b, her d-smash. As most peach players i encounter are very aggressive, they are bound to use some of these which you must capitalize on . These are of course not the only things punishable, just the reliable ones i have found. Approaches with shine is also one of the few ways falco can make an opening for himself and i suggest using this often. Yet again, i still consistently lose to good peach mains, though i definatly gotten better with this stuff in mind. If someone with more knowledge than me has anything to suggest for this matchup id be very appreciative

 

[Snipnigth]

Almost every matchup discution i see falco loses by more that half, its so sad

 

[Ffamran]

Moving this here since it's more appropriate as it's more general MU discussion.

Almost every matchup discution i see falco loses by more that half, its so sad

Slow developing metagame, little representation, and little results. Remember Melee Jigglypuff, Brawl Ike, Sonic, and even Wolf? Yeah, they weren't considered good while Wolf was considered good, then trash, then back up to good as well. After a while, Jigglypuff was established as a high tier, Ike and Sonic were solid mid tiers, and Wolf was upper-mid. Recently, Meta Knight had his time too; Falco needs his time which would help somewhat.

As it stands, Peach has tons of techniques, several dedicated players, and results that show Peach is good. When Keitaro did fine against a Taxes's Diddy, but switched out even though the lost the second match because of some mistakes, it does something - questions - Falco's viability even though he did fine. Or how about Steelsburg doing fine if not dominating against Shaperr's Sheik? The only issue? Steelsburg doesn't seem to be a big name.

 

[Zionaze]

I was behind Taxes during that match lmao

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I am still very confident in Falco.

He may have many bad match-ups, but he has good ones as well. I think.
They are all based on statistics, if you know what to look for and you can react anything is possible.
Except Rosalina, I don't want to get into another rant about her though.

 

[Goodstyle]

NEVER approach her from above, this is especially frustrating for falco because ,well...BAIR. I suggest only shorthopping bair (and occasionally fair)on peach otherwise you get a face full of upsmash which always gets me somehow.

Never approach anyone from above as Falco, his aerials don't have the right hitboxes for that. You're supposed to be coming from below to kill with the bair. And while we're talking about "nevers", never use short hope fair unless you're doing a dthrow combo. Move is super unsafe.

Also, if you're consistently getting hit by Peach's usmash, it's a sign that you are playing way too aggressively. You're right about playing patiently, but also emphasize the importance of grabs and beating Peach to the punch with your own faster aerials.

 

[Snipnigth]

hello, we should make a thread for falco vs toon link matchup discution, I was just playing with some new friends and one of them is a really good toon link, he destoyed me, i coudent find a way in or any solid punishes, also he is really hard to combo and bair OFS wont work on him unless he is in the air because he is so tiny, i got really salty and frustrated playing him, because he can combo falco so easily and he can chase where im gonna land so well because he is so fast,and the most frustrating thing is that he can combo uptilt into up air and bombs into f air or any other aerial, and both combos kill so well.

Any tips will be helpful

 

[Wombatz]

just started maining falco and Id like some info on the Falco Yoshi Matchup please if anyone can help

 

[Ffamran]

just started maining falco and Id like some info on the Falco Yoshi Matchup please if anyone can help

Check here please: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-09-yoshi-falling-with-style.391290/.

Edit: The Greninja boards are discussing the Falco MU. It starts here: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...o-luigi-5-4-5-11.369356/page-18#post-19125380.

 

[FullMoon]

Hey Falco boards, the Greninja boards are-

Oh, nevermind.

Well, we're mostly looking for more of a "how to win" for our MU discussions lately, not "who wins" so if any of you guys could give any advice, that would be great.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Check here please: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-09-yoshi-falling-with-style.391290/.

Edit: The Greninja boards are discussing the Falco MU. It starts here: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...o-luigi-5-4-5-11.369356/page-18#post-19125380.

why are none of the matchup discussions linked the OP