Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Thread - Main Post

[Shiny Shovel]

When going against Jiggs, I usually wait for her to approach.

Jiggs normally uses short hops and floats to approach. Just hang back and let her. Shine is effective and can cause trips, allowing for grab-dThrow-fair, or just reset spacing with bThrow-fullhop-laser.

Dtilt is amazing for shield pressure. Around 4 causes it to burst I think, so Jiggy can't take many. Try not to go into your third jab. Jiggs will jab you in the slight pause.

Just space, punish an approach. Use lasers to poke at range and force her to come to you.

S.S.

 

[tibs7]

link gets destroyed by this character. Just saying....

 

[iNSANE]

So I ran into a DK main and got trashed multiple times. He switched to Falco and I decided to try DK for the first time.

Holy heck does DK ever just destroy every one of Falco's options, the offstage game, the dash attack, the tilts, the SMASH attacks.

DK is just a regular terror to face.

Same thing happened to me. In Melee you could just edgeguard/meteorsmash DK to finish the stock now he lives forever and kills you early. The range on DK is also pretty crazy, don't know what to do other than spam lasers and force DK to approach. If I go aggressive it kinda works but 1 mistake and your stock can be gone...

 

[NotAnAdmin]

It doesn't seem that there is a good way to approach with her as your opponent, up smash is a bit risky. I find myself spamming nairs mostly it can reach but since shes so lightweight you can't get the strong hitbox to connect reliably.
Sometimes I throw out a fair, it can catch them off guard. Maybe a backwards short hop up-air could work, since it starts from behind him. Jiggs matchup seems like it leans to Jiggs. She just has so much air game, plus air dodging gives her a whiff to punish if you try to anticipate her approach with an attack.
If she catches you off stage and starts fairing or bairing you to the blast zone, phantasm like your life depends on it, the spike might be just enough to where she can't get back.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

Same thing happened to me. In Melee you could just edgeguard/meteorsmash DK to finish the stock now he lives forever and kills you early. The range on DK is also pretty crazy, don't know what to do other than spam lasers and force DK to approach. If I go aggressive it kinda works but 1 mistake and your stock can be gone...

I havent play a lot against DK but take one useful tip: when you manage to get him out of stage, use your bair against his upB and he will have a hard time recovering

 

[Ffamran]

DK's hit box makes him really easy to him compared to everyone else, but that's a double-edged sword since he has range to. I don't know, I think it would be easy to combo and catch him because of his size.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

DK's hit box makes him really easy to him compared to everyone else, but that's a double-edged sword since he has range to. I don't know, I think it would be easy to combo and catch him because of his size.

I have been playing this afternoon versus a nice DK offline and I have some problems, feel free to help me :/

- Seems like DK outranges us in every way, I cant find safe approaches versus him. This combined by the awful approach skills that Falco has ... hurts :S
- He has great follow ups and combos versus us and the problems is that he can make us A LOT of damage with just a few hits. We can do the same to him but he will die at very high percentage and we die earlier.
- I have trouble going for the gimp. If we land our fair we can get the kill (not always), on the other hand if we fail our fair we will have a hard time going back to stage. He can intercept our sideB, our upB ... and our recovery options are that great vs DK.
- Spacing with tilts is useless because he outranges us.
- Laser will end with him punishing us and his punishes are hard.
- I find some followups weak, for example: a lot of times I land an uthrow and when I want to follow it with uair I find myself being punched in the face by DK´s dair.
- Approach him is awful, again.

BTW, I can create DK matchup post if you want

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not an expert, but I did pay attention to fighting a DK - it was the only match in a streak of laggy matches. Real life analogy that might not apply to video games well: Fighting DK seems like fighting someone with a spear when you have a dagger or a sword. If you get in really close, then there's little DK can do since you can always hit over and over again.

Using DK's range against us could work. Baiting him to overreach and punish. Let him approach, fail, counter, and put pressure on him. So, if feinting a Uair followup, air dodge or move away, then attack with Fair, Bair, Nair, or even Dair.

My issue is that I don't see a lot of DK's online.

 

[Zionaze]

shielding and spot dodges are essential for falco to use against dk

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I guess this is a MU where you would have to rely on the shine. It's the only move that won't leave you open for too long when used.
That and abuse the phantasm. DK is pretty fast but not too fast for that.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

I guess this is a MU where you would have to rely on the shine. It's the only move that won't leave you open for too long when used.
That and abuse the phantasm. DK is pretty fast but not too fast for that.

Reflector has a lot of endlag frames

 

[V_x_I_D]

I played an Olimar for the first time and I got destroyed.
It's so difficult to attack while little Pikmin are on you causing DoT.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Thought on who to discuss next on a 1v1 match-up against the L O M B A R D I B O Y S?
I would like ZSS, or Lucario. Not two specifically I have trouble with, but it can't hurt to give the a close look.

 

[Ffamran]

We could just drag them over here. Which one? Flip a coin or whatnot and we'll start. A new thread for the MU or we could just continue here. While I could change the title to reflect the current MU, I would prefer if I could get Legend Vermillion's approval, but he hasn't been here for a while which is why I think making a thread dedicated to MU's might be a good idea. Here, we could talk about general MU's and suggest them.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

If we can get the ZSS players over that would be cool.

I'm already thinking it's at least a 40-60 MU ZSS has some moves that just work, and Falco can't punish depending on the stage.

 

[SoundChow]

ZSS is a terrible matchup in my opinion.

Some of her moves like down-smash, dash attack, and down-b are unpunishable by Falco, and if you block her attacks she'll tether grab you (takes in rolls) and go for forward-air. She's really fast and slippery, due to her down-b and crazy fast run-speed, so it's hard to land hits and juggle her.

However, a really good matchup against ZSS is fox, who can actually keep up with ZSS and pressure her with dash-attack and nair.

I think the toughest match-ups for Falco are Rosalina, ZSS, Duck Hunt Dog, and Palutena (her moves have a ton of priority).

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I agree, ZSS's grab is too good, and at the same time it's garbage.

It's so slow but the frames are active so long, and it covers so much space it can still grab you even if you roll backwards.

 

[Ffamran]

I haven't fought a lot of ZSS's, but her Stun Gun should be punishable except Falco's dash isn't that great. One thing you could do is dash and use Reflector instead of Dash Attack, but that requires a hard read. If ZSS is fishing for a Down Smash, then it should be punished over and over. Maybe Falco could Jab it, Reflector it, or Ftilt it.

If you want, I could make a ZSS MU thread and invite the ZSS players over. That or anyone else.

Rosalina is more of MU unfamiliarity. Despite being considered OP in the past and despite people acknowledging that she is a good character, I rarely fight her. I think I've fought only 4 Rosalinas and I lost to all of them because I don't know what to do. It's the same with Peach, Duck Hunt, Wario, and even Diddy. Oh, and there's the Mii Fighters, but that's because they're not allowed in For Glory or even For Fun of all places. One thing is that her range and mobility makes it difficult to fight her especially if she takes Falco to the air where he can't move well.

Duck Hunt stuff.

Spoiler

With Duck Hunt, I usually just tank hits which I also did with Fox once. The issue is this: Falco's mobility. I could keep pace with Fox, but with Falco, it was more of baiting and waiting. If DH throws out a Can, you can reflect it and it'll travel towards DH. Clay Shooting is more about forcing an approach. So, jump and approach, reflect it, or tank it. Duck Jump is more about guessing where they'll go and punishing it. It's like Snake's Cypher, but I don't think it has super armor. Wild Gunman is the same thing, dodge it, kill them, or reflect the shot. Duck Hunt's Smashes gain range the more they're charged. I don't have much to say about DH's tilts, Jab, and aerials since I don't fight them often.

Some stuff on Palutena.

Spoiler

Palutena is a weird fighter. She has slow, strong attacks with good range. The reason why her Dash Attack and Bair are so good is because it involves her shield which like Link's blocks pretty much anything, but the difference is this: Link uses his Hylian Shield for defensive purpose when he's idle, so it'll block projectiles more while Pally uses her shield offensively meaning it will beat attacks. The good thing is that her Bair is pretty short ranged and her Dash Attack has end lag.

Her tilts and Jab are things where if you don't get caught, then just wait and punish. You could use Blaster or Reflector or hop over and hit her with Bair or something. If she gets you in the air, it's going to be an issue since her Up Smash has a lot of vertical range and Falco's air speed isn't good. Go for the ledge or juke her and use Phantasm to switch directions. Side Smash isn't something you should be getting caught in, but it has a windbox and that will kill your momentum. Same with Down Smash.

Aerials, well, her Uair is a kill move, but the hitbox is like her body which seems small, but I think her air speed beats Falco's. Nair has great coverage, but it's a little slow. Dair is her spike which is kind of fast and has a similar arc to Samus, Marth, and Lucina's.

Specials-wise, I'm not going to say much since Pally turns into another beast with customs and frankly, there's not much with her default set. Autoreticle is something you should avoid rather than reflect. The downside of Falco's Reflector is it cannot be held indefinitely and it probably won't reflect all the shots. Reflect Barrier can gimp people as an edgeguard tool, so mix up your recovery. Warp is warp, there's nothing much aside from she is vulnerable when it activates and before she warps somewhere. Counter is counter, not much to say, but if a Pally is abusing it, then bait it out like all counters.

 

[gameplayzero]

Rosalina is more of MU unfamiliarity. Despite being considered OP in the past and despite people acknowledging that she is a good character, I rarely fight her. I think I've fought only 4 Rosalinas and I lost to all of them because I don't know what to do. It's the same with Peach, Duck Hunt, Wario, and even Diddy. Oh, and there's the Mii Fighters, but that's because they're not allowed in For Glory or even For Fun of all places. One thing is that her range and mobility makes it difficult to fight her especially if she takes Falco to the air where he can't move well.

[/spoiler]


.[/spoiler]

I was just about to ask about rosalina. I kept getting destroyed over and over again against one tonight. I don't think this match is up even close to our favor. If you wouldn't mind I would like the next matchup thread to be on rosalina. Falco's ground game just seems completely shut down, and while we can just whack luma at a distance, a smart rosalina isn't going to allow that (and the lag on our laser's and reflector makes those options not even worth using). As soon as we go in the air that automatically puts us at risk since being above rosalina is a death wish. Bairing is even dangerous with luma out. Seems like rosalina requires a character that can punish grounded opponents with a good aerial game (so you don't have to deal with luma), a character that can pressure seemingly well (megaman, sheik), someone with good range (shulk), or someone who can take out luma with ease.

 

[Ffamran]

I was just about to ask about rosalina. I kept getting destroyed over and over again against one tonight. I don't think this match is up even close to our favor. If you wouldn't mind I would like the next matchup thread to be on rosalina.

I was considering Fox and Captain Falcon for next week since there are a lot of videos out there on Falco vs. Fox and Captain Falcon, but I could just make three threads... I'll think about it.

 

[gameplayzero]

I was considering Fox and Captain Falcon for next week since there are a lot of videos out there on Falco vs. Fox and Captain Falcon, but I could just make three threads... I'll think about it.

I'm probably not going to fight a rosalina again for awhile since they are so rare lol, so thats completely up to you. As always I appreciate the work. Fox and Falcon are far more common characters so those are great next match up discussions and I'll do what I can to contribute.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm probably not going to fight a rosalina again for awhile since they are so rare lol, so thats completely up to you. As always I appreciate the work. Fox and Falcon are far more common characters so those are great next match up discussions and I'll do what I can to contribute.

Yeah, I rarely fight Diddy, Rosalina, Duck Hunt, Sheik, ZSS, and even Fox. Usually, it's Little Mac, Link, Lucario, and Captain Falcon. I should ask for more friend codes...

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I was just about to ask about rosalina. I kept getting destroyed over and over again against one tonight. I don't think this match is up even close to our favor. If you wouldn't mind I would like the next matchup thread to be on rosalina. Falco's ground game just seems completely shut down, and while we can just whack luma at a distance, a smart rosalina isn't going to allow that (and the lag on our laser's and reflector makes those options not even worth using). As soon as we go in the air that automatically puts us at risk since being above rosalina is a death wish. Bairing is even dangerous with luma out. Seems like rosalina requires a character that can punish grounded opponents with a good aerial game (so you don't have to deal with luma), a character that can pressure seemingly well (megaman, sheik), someone with good range (shulk), or someone who can take out luma with ease.

I agree we need a Rosy thread eventually it seems like all you can do is play keep away, Luma has too much range and not enough way to counter, I find myself spamming the shine or SH fair on the Luma for damage which is unsafe.
She has the perfect ground game character with the Luma next to her no one out-ranges her.

 

[Macchiato]

I cannot for the life of me play against Zelda. Any helpful advice?

Yew can't, no one can beat Zelda. Her sass beats everyone in a heartbeat.

 

[Dreleth]

I can't do anything against Shulk, he just out ranges me by far and I can't seem to punish well or get some hits unless he does a random smash attack. Also I've been having troubles with Dedede but not so much. Just mostly Shulk.

 

[Ffamran]

Shulk is definitely difficult to deal with because of the Monado's range and because of Falco's poor air speed. One thing I suggest is that you bait out Shulk's attacks and counter them rather than trying to go head to head with him.

With DeDeDe, it's more of hitting first. DeDeDe's mobility isn't that great either, but he makes it up with range and durability. If Triple D uses Gordo, Falco can use Blaster or Reflector for a quick way to reflect it back. Reflector is much easier and safer since Blaster requires that you're at the right distance and the right timing to reflect Gordo at point blank. Everything else is abusing Triple D's hurtbox since he's one chubby penguin.

 

[Dreleth]

Shulk is definitely difficult to deal with because of the Monado's range and because of Falco's poor air speed. One thing I suggest is that you bait out Shulk's attacks and counter them rather than trying to go head to head with him.

With DeDeDe, it's more of hitting first. DeDeDe's mobility isn't that great either, but he makes it up with range and durability. If Triple D uses Gordo, Falco can use Blaster or Reflector for a quick way to reflect it back. Reflector is much easier and safer since Blaster requires that you're at the right distance and the right timing to reflect Gordo at point blank. Everything else is abusing Triple D's hurtbox since he's one chubby penguin.

Yeah it's kind of hard imo to bait out the attacks though, especially since his nair/fair have little to no landing lag. Thanks for the tips though.

The gordo's aren't the problem I have with Triple D, it's just his range on most of his attacks, I have a lot of trouble trying to recover back on the stage. I dunno, I guess I need more practice against him. I haven't really played many Triple D's online and none of my friends play him.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I actually think that Shulk can completely shut down any approach Falco does with a well timed nair or fair, outside of his shine, it's the only thing Falco has that outspaces him, and it's still close.
You just have to be patient for Shulk to approach you or for him or to mess up in the neutral, and punish as hard as possible without Falco's mobility biting you in the butt.
Same with 3De, he has amazing jabs/tilts that seem to force through everything, it's all about being patient and knowing when to back off and when to pressure. Maybe throw out a couple lasers, and reflect gordo's do some full hops and try to annoy them with the shine or bait them with full hop fairs or dairs, it's up to you.

 

[Ffamran]

Heads up on the MU threads: I'm going to start 3 new threads by tomorrow since I found out I had the flu yesterday and I'm feeling better today, but I don't know about tomorrow the the other 3-4 days after taking medication for it. Also, I need to catch up on university stuff and having the flu means I'm going to have to focus on that more along with resting. I will check in, but I probably won't be posting a lot, especially if I feel crappy in the next couple of days.

 

[gameplayzero]

Heads up on the MU threads: I'm going to start 3 new threads by tomorrow since I found out I had the flu yesterday and I'm feeling better today, but I don't know about tomorrow the the other 3-4 days after taking medication for it. Also, I need to catch up on university stuff and having the flu means I'm going to have to focus on that more along with resting. I will check in, but I probably won't be posting a lot, especially if I feel crappy in the next couple of days.

your health is definitely more important. Sucks that you caught the flu. Hopefully you get better soon man. This board aint the same without ya.

 

[Ffamran]

your health is definitely more important. Sucks that you caught the flu. Hopefully you get better soon man. This board aint the same without ya.

The secret to making the threads are basically copying and pasting the formats.

Data is more of referencing and I have data on 2 of the 3 already and one of them is already posted.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I'd just like to suggest that we discuss either Rosalina or Yoshi soon, I've been playing against them and I'm having a bit of a struggle with Yoshi especially. Regarding Rosa, it would simply be nice to have a thread compiling ways to deal with her and that pesky Luma.

Edit: Thanks for noticing me Ffamran-senpai.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I second both of these as well.
Rosy is a powerhouse on the ground, and Yoshi is just plain annoying.

 

[Ayeyomidget]

I feel Falco has a huge advantage over Little Mac. I faced countless Little Mac's in For Glory, some extremely terrible, some very very good. All Falco needs to do is Down Throw and punish literally anything Little mac does in the air.

By the time he lands, grab invicibility is over so we have a chain grab involving reads here. Throw him off stage, shoot a laser(very effective) and edgeguard. Falco's down B is almost always a guaranteed gimp if you hit him off stage.

at low percent (around30) try doing forward/down throw short hop side. works every time this will spike on done correctly and of the side

 

[Legato]

Rosalina is a terrible match-up, but I have had some reasonable success against a few descent ones I played online. The main thing with rosalina is that you pretty much can't approach her. It just doesn't work 9/10. If she tries to launch luma ever in an attempt to camp you just use lasers and it interrupts the charge (reflector works too, but requires stricter timing).

Patience is key; our matches almost timed out every time. Also, if you short hop laser you can hit rosalina and put pressure on her. It requires very precise timing, but once you get it down some rosalumas will sh nair and try to approach which creates many opportunities for you (fair, nair, bair). Combos are near impossible, and grabbing is not a safe option in this match-up at all. At most I managed a roll-cancel grab twice which you can profit off of quite well, but it just wasn't worth it and often cost me the match if I focused on it. Reflector is about the best option as you can out-space her with it and cause a trip (just don't overuse it or else you will be hurt).

The main thing is to show the rosaluma that you can hit her with lasers if you jump and time it well consistently (you have to hit her head). If she decides to launch luma after one of the aerial lasers, just fire the laser again and it interrupts the charge. This is a very risky fight that requires extreme precision. Vary lasers, reflector, fair, and bair as much as you can as these are pretty much the options you have available in most situations (uair can be used situationally). I found nair to be utterly useless (got maybe 1 or 2 by jumping out of shield, but she spaced poorly on both occasions). I usually just use a secondary anymore if fighting her as this match-up feels like it's 30/70 in her favor.

I'm intrigued by this match-up now though, so I might go searching to fight a few more with falco to gather more data.

 

[Beach]

I honestly can't fight Yoshi's at all, I can't seem to punish much at all and I can't gimp with fair because of double jump armor, if there is moral voting I vote for a Yoshi MU thread.

 

[Ffamran]

I honestly can't fight Yoshi's at all, I can't seem to punish much at all and I can't gimp with fair because of double jump armor, if there is moral voting I vote for a Yoshi MU thread.

We already have one: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-09-yoshi-falling-with-style.391290/.

 

[Beach]

We already have one: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-09-yoshi-falling-with-style.391290/.

Oh stupid me, thanks for the heads up though!

 

[Zionaze]

so what is falcos hardest MU?

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Rosalina, no doubt about it.
When grabbing is considered unsafe, something that Falco NEEDS to do to rack up damage, we have an issue.

All we can do is make good reads and try to chip her to that kill percent. Hopefully we can hard read a fsmash or trick the Rosy into running into a bair.