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SSB 2015 Community Tier List

THE_MAAFIA

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
831
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Is Falcon really better than Fox? And how is Jigglypuff so high? And if DK has an infinite on the entire cast... how is he so low. People just never use it cuz they'd rather not but im almost positive it's legal, and definately doable at top level of play.
The infinite isn't a true infinite and you can escape it
 

MonkeyArms

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
552
Location
Arkansas
NNID
MrCheeseburger7
Still can't believe luigi gets ranked so low.
I mean, I can see why people would think Mario is better, but how is he on the freaking bottom? He can't be THAT bad.
 

THE_MAAFIA

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
831
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Still can't believe luigi gets ranked so low.
I mean, I can see why people would think Mario is better, but how is he on the freaking bottom? He can't be THAT bad.
It's ok dude :) the list makes it look like he's trash, but it's actually very neck and neck, lots of the bottom are veeeeey close, so don't be disappointed bro :3 luigi isn't bad
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
hmmmmmmmmmm ok

when was the last time we did a full dreamland only MATCHUP table? That's far more telling and useful maybe that should be the next community project? Can't really have that be votes though cause a non-elite player's vote (i consider myself non-elite btw) is pretty meaningless
 

Beesy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
115
Glad to see the community recognizing Samus' ability more.

Good work Pidge and others. Thanks for getting this done.
 

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
hmmmmmmmmmm ok

when was the last time we did a full dreamland only MATCHUP table? That's far more telling and useful maybe that should be the next community project? Can't really have that be votes though cause a non-elite player's vote (i consider myself non-elite btw) is pretty meaningless
I tried starting a project to compile as much objective and subjective data that didn't directly rank the characters but evaluated their skill and then compile it all to build a possible tier list but apparently no one wanted to do that.
 

SpeedWolf

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
2
wow, i didn't know there could be updates to older smash games. good stuff.
 

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
4,781
then is there some other magical reason as to why she's B tier now besides that? cobr and kabal are two NA samuses that spring to mind that make any sort of waves and the latter doesn't even play in local tournaments, just online.
Kabal does play in console tourneys and they both do better than Luigi, Link, and DK mains (nobody is even brave enough to touch those latter 2 losers). And Firo is the only reason they don't have clearly superior tourney results over Ness.
 

LunarWingCloud

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
1,962
Location
Gensokyo
NNID
LunarWingStorm
3DS FC
2449-4791-3879
Oh wow a new list.

Surprised to see Fox down a spot and Jigglypuff up 2, let alone Samus up 4, but not so surprised Luigi is now last.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
looks pretty good :)

I think DK should be a bit lower but can't have everything
 
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firo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
600
Location
Champaign, Illinois
I can understand this list based on the current state of the game but I hope it changes. I've been playing DK and Link a lot and I plan to give them some more exposure (I disagree with their placements). I encourage anyone who disagrees with how a character placed to practice and play that character at their next tournament. Not only is it more fun to explore the combos and tech for these characters, but it makes a difference. I'd bet that if I never decided to play ness that he would have a very good chance of being last on this list.
 

Cedricwa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Olympia, Washington
Honestly I'm just glad jiggly got put above Mario. She's so much better.

Also, for anyone complaining about the placement of any of the bottom five, remember that that is where the most controversy was, and pretty much everyone has their own placement for them.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

"Download Complete."
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
13,396
Location
Down on the corner, out in the street.

Pet

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
2
Location
New Hope, PA
IMO, Samus and DK should be separated. Samus and DK should be C, while Ness, Link, and Luigi should be a seperate D tier.
 

SnorIax

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
6
Pretty sweet tier list, I'm very content with the results :) However there's no need for X>Y, Z>X, It is impossible to make a tier list that every single smash member will agree upon. At the end of the day any character can beat any character, some match up are inherently harder, you just gotta pull out the JC Penney strataloons. That's why I will have to crush you all with my DK next apex :)

JC Penney has great sales
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,677
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Can someone explain to a 64 scrub like me why Samus moved up so much? I was under the impression she was the only one in the cast without any sort of good combos which made her by far the worst.
 

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
Can someone explain to a 64 scrub like me why Samus moved up so much? I was under the impression she was the only one in the cast without any sort of good combos which made her by far the worst.
from fireblaster:
"
Because dreamland is quickly becoming the only stage being played in tournaments, there's a meta evolving around "vortex" gameplay for characters that aren't as efficient in combos. This vortex style comes from other fighting games where you keep someone locked down in a specific location where you are free and safe to continually keep hitting them in a non-combo. For example, on dreamland it's not uncommon for some characters to prefer spiking their opponent onto one of the platforms so that you can land on the platform and do a really easy-to-read/guaranteed tech chase and juggle them up to do another spike again.

Samus is fairly good at this as she has a fairly wide spike that can cover a big range on the platform. It's so big, in fact, that jouske has pretty much perfected doing guaranteed spikes on anyone that is knocked onto a platform, whether they tech or not."

basically not many combos =/= bad punish game.
 

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
Can someone explain to a 64 scrub like me why Samus moved up so much? I was under the impression she was the only one in the cast without any sort of good combos which made her by far the worst.
If I randomly asserted that she had combos would you unquestionably believe me and feel like you now understand the tier list? If anyone asserted anything about any character in this game and they had a high post count and a recognizable name would you take it as truth and believe it as if you understood it?

Samus has combos: http://gfycat.com/TediousMadFishingcat


Lets put these assertations to the test
 

kabal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Las Vegas
Can someone explain to a 64 scrub like me why Samus moved up so much? I was under the impression she was the only one in the cast without any sort of good combos which made her by far the worst.
Besides what Fireblaster said, the biggest reason is that Samus actually has a decent recovery. Ness and Link both have horrible recoveries, and now that the meta is Dreamland only this hurts them severely.

Another factor is that Samus can be more difficult for other characters to combo. She also has some pretty good defensive tools with her up-b, bombs and large hitbox bair/dairs.
 
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M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,677
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
from fireblaster:
"
Because dreamland is quickly becoming the only stage being played in tournaments, there's a meta evolving around "vortex" gameplay for characters that aren't as efficient in combos. This vortex style comes from other fighting games where you keep someone locked down in a specific location where you are free and safe to continually keep hitting them in a non-combo. For example, on dreamland it's not uncommon for some characters to prefer spiking their opponent onto one of the platforms so that you can land on the platform and do a really easy-to-read/guaranteed tech chase and juggle them up to do another spike again.

Samus is fairly good at this as she has a fairly wide spike that can cover a big range on the platform. It's so big, in fact, that jouske has pretty much perfected doing guaranteed spikes on anyone that is knocked onto a platform, whether they tech or not."

basically not many combos =/= bad punish game.
Great answer, that sums up well. That makes a lot of sense too. I know the meta was super reliant on how good your combo game was for a while, because how efficiently you can turn a punish into a stock in 64 is important. The shift in thinking makes a lot of sense.


If I randomly asserted that she had combos would you unquestionably believe me and feel like you now understand the tier list? If anyone asserted anything about any character in this game and they had a high post count and a recognizable name would you take it as truth and believe it as if you understood it?

Samus has combos: http://gfycat.com/TediousMadFishingcat


Lets put these assertations to the test
I pretty much got the same answer that samus was the worst from pretty much anyone I asked (for the same reasons usually too). If they didn't say Samus, it was Link. Also, I was factoring in how important combo games in 64 are for the purpose of converting punishes into stocks.
 
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Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
Link is pure sex. People just place way too much importance on recovery.

Link is like a full package of swag
 
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