Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Shintarru]

Excuse my ignorance but why does everyone think squirtle is contender for worst character? Just started playing this game and im having a blast with the character. His upsmash is really powerful, his movement is kind of tricky but its really good and he is great at gimping. I could see him having trouble with sword characters and characters with high priority air moves. Again I am new to the game and haven't played melee competitively in years so I feel like I am missing something.

 

[Zwarm]

He's not the worst character in the game, he just has a handful of tough matchups that keeps him from being a higher tier character.

He has a lot going for him too. He has a lot of tools to deal with most of his problems, he can move around the stage quickly. Just tough MUs like Marth, Metaknight, swords in general, etc. are a major uphill battle for him, and he has to work a lot harder for the stocks he takes.

 

[GenericName]

Anyone having trouble with swords (I.e those Lords) isn't using dsmash enough. It combos into itself for all of them. And MK can't handle people blowing bubbles in his face.

 

[Jawsome]

Anyone having trouble with swords (I.e those Lords) isn't using dsmash enough. It combos into itself for all of them. And MK can't handle people blowing bubbles in his face.

I agree with this about MK, I don't think it's that bad of a matchup. bubble and watergun to keep him away until you're ready to go in and combo.
I didn't know dsmash combo works on Fire Emblem characters, I'll have to try that one out. But I think the hardest part about those matchups is getting in to do that. They're range beats alot of Squirtle's approaches and you have to make those hard reads. I'm not to experienced in the Marth or Roy matchup, but Ike is such a pain, because his range has power and kills Squirtle early

 

[Zwarm]

Anyone having trouble with swords (I.e those Lords) isn't using dsmash enough. It combos into itself for all of them. And MK can't handle people blowing bubbles in his face.

Swords can hit you from above, I don't see how dsmash would ever work against a good sword player

 

[GenericName]

DTilt -> Dsmash works. They're usually too heavy for the hits to pop them up too high. And once they're hit it's pretty hard for them to get out without being hit with at least 2 dsmashes.

Or if you're feeling fly, you could hydroplane dsmash them.

 

[Zwarm]

I don't know about you, but when I play against sword characters, they make sure I'm never close enough to dtilt or dsmash them.

It's a good idea and all, but a good sword player will never let you in range of them to hit them with anything besides maybe Bubble. All it takes is one slip up, and you get grabbed and tech chased for a whole stock.

 

[GenericName]

If you're in range for a bubble, you can get a dsmash in there

 

[Zwarm]

Bubble has more range than dsmash, and is a lot safer of a move.

 

[Shintarru]

Is his armor viable approaching sword characters?

 

[Bones0]

I would never rely on armor for approaching aside from withdrawing through projectiles.

 

[GenericName]

WD actually "clanks" Ike's ftilt...But both still take damage.

People should go try Air Bubble ->Dtilt -> Dsmash on the lords. It's amazing.

 

[Bones0]

Ike's ftilt is not a projectile...

 

[GenericName]

You can clank any grounded attack. It's just a priority clash.

Just doesn't make sense that both took damage, instead of cancelling or one out prioritizing the other.

 

[Kally Wally]

I've had that happen plenty of times. The clash noise happens, and both characters trade blows.

 

[GunBlaze]

You can clank any grounded attack. It's just a priority clash.

 

[GenericName]

Too bad MK cant handle bubbles, so doesn't matter if he's transendant or not.

 

[Zwarm]

Metaknight doesn't care about anything Squirtle can do to him. All he needs is one grab and that's the stock. His tech chase game is beyond incredible

 

[GenericName]

You must give up too soon then.

 

[Zwarm]

Me believing in myself doesn't magically make the combo stop...

 

[SSB_Hello]

annoying that you think that squirtle has nothing to get out of tech chases.

don't tech and roll to the side, you'll roll further if mk is chasing you that far then the guy is jesus reincarnated.

squirtle is a very good char. he has flaws but he's far from losing just because of a few things. most of it is gameplay/experience.

 

[Zwarm]

Don't get me wrong, I love Squirtle. The character has some major flaws though. It's really not hard for MK to tech chase an entire stock from Squirtle, or at least get him offstage in a terrible position. Squirtle is not a bad character, he just loses to characters with long ranged disjoints that make it hard for him to get in.

I've been a top 3 Squirtle for almost 6 months now, I've played a lot of highly skilled players, I know the character. He's very susceptible to any and all grabs. Most characters can chaingrab him out of it, and if not that, then tech chase him with his telegraphed tech roll.

 

[Bones0]

Man, who cares about getting tech chased when you can't even DD... (still SO salty about this...)

 

[GenericName]

Maybe instead of teching you should just roll. Squirtle's roll sends him flying across or even off the stage half the time because of how much momentum he keeps. Or use nair or fair or WD.
And to be fair, copius amounts of CGs should only happen on FD since there's no platforms that Squirtle can bounce from. One of his greatest abilities is that he can pretty much change his momentum into any direction you want to go in.
Zamus is the only one with disjoints I can think of that will constantly bother Squirtle. Tink can be this if the opponent starts trying to wall with bomb+boomerang

 

[MrHazuki]

I wrote about 6 months ago that I won a tournament using Withdraw only, and a few of you said it was a fluke or something. It happened again. I beat all the best players in Denmark. That move is broken as ****. You guys need to Withdraw more.

 

[Hobobloke]

The opponent can react and pivot grab you out of it.

If you're beating people using only Withdraw it doesn't necessarily mean it's broken, more likely the people you are playing against aren't very good.

 

[SpiderMad]

I agree with both of you, there's a lot to using Withdraw especially with no fear to abuse their inability to deal with it. People who either know (learned, or otherwise intelligent from the get go to dealing with bs moves) how to deal with it, or just in the sense to pick a CP Character/Stage to deal with it: probably make Squirtle suck.

Spoiler

http://rottingcat.tumblr.com/tagged/compilation 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7JsFY-5kow&list=PLovBMkMLex7wTISMgGxSMBt7vcLpeX4Gs

 

[MrHazuki]

They are good players, no doubt.
You can use it in so many ways. Pivot grab only counters the most obvious straightforward approach with Withdraw.

 

[SpiderMad]

Like always, videos would be nice

 

[GenericName]

That video was boss

 

[SSB_Hello]

I wrote about 6 months ago that I won a tournament using Withdraw only, and a few of you said it was a fluke or something. It happened again. I beat all the best players in Denmark. That move is broken as ****. You guys need to Withdraw more.

this is wrong skilled players will react to your withdraw spam. that said

I agree with both of you, there's a lot to using Withdraw especially with no fear to abuse their inability to deal with it. People who either know (learned, or otherwise intelligent from the get go to dealing with bs moves) how to deal with it, or just in the sense to pick a CP Character/Stage to deal with it: probably make Squirtle suck.

I agree with what spider said. you can use it if they arent adapting but if they figure it out stop. you'll get punished. mix ups are key in melee

 

[SSB_Hello]

also don't get grabbed and you solve a lot of these alleged problems.

 

[GenericName]

Skilled players cant react to that constand wd in their face when it doesn't allow them to move.

And wd tech chases is just so easy.

 

[MaxThunder]

ok so if two squirtles are spamming bubbles on a third person between them that is now called a bubble bath... just throwing that out there...

 

[GenericName]

That actually sounds really difficult to pull off and keep the 3rd person between the two of you.

 

[MaxThunder]

dun care... it's called bubble bath...

 

[Zwarm]

also don't get grabbed and you solve a lot of these alleged problems.

That's like saying "don't get grabbed" to beat Ice Climbers in Brawl, and yet they're still one of the best characters in the game.

Fact of the matter is, you are going to get grabbed.

 

[GenericName]

Yet you act like squirtle loses all his options once he's grabbed. You can nair out of them, or wd away

 

[Zwarm]

...you can nair out of someone grabbing you, throwing you, and landing on the ground? Please, teach me how to do that. And no, you can't wd right after teching, there's still lag on the tech when they're able to regrab you, that's why it's called a tech chase.

Tech chasing =/= chain grabs. Not many characters can actually chain grab Squirtle, but a lot of them can throw him on the ground. MK down throw, Marth fthrow/dthrow, DDD dthrow, etc.

I'm really not trying to be a **** about this, but you literally make no sense with your responses.

 

[GenericName]

Consider the fact I never said to tech.

And since your problem only comes from teching with squirtle, just stop teching then. Dont just say squirtle has no options because you wont do anything but tech. You can get away without it. :/