Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Burnsy]

SS is shellshift. Shell stall is too uncommon and niche to really need its own abbreviation, SS is far more ubiquitous.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Burnsy is right, shell shift. I thought that SS was a common abbreviation for shell shift. I'm not sure where I got that notion from... It was a bit unclear, and I'm sorry about that. I'm still a little new to this. I was trying to use lingo I haven't quite mastered, haha. I'll make a video as well as a how to and post it here. I'll try to have it done by Monday. I'll also include some side-by-sides of fast characters running and compare it to Squirtle's speed while he's doing this trick. Just a warning, this is either going to be really cool or be a huge let down, so don't let me get your hopes too high.

 

[Burnsy]

I tried it myself not long after you posted and wasn't sure if I was doing it wrong, because to me it just seems like an alternate way of doing a shell sling (cstick flick instead of control stick).

My issues could be related to the fact that my shell stall seems to last the same amount of time regardless of how I preform it.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Shell Sling! That sounds a lot better than Reverse SS Jump Cancel! I knew there was a name I was forgetting. Goodness, my ignorance is showing. Basically yes, it's exactly the same except with the C-stick flick instead of control stick. The difference is that Squirtle can go into the Shell Shift animation sooner if you use the C-stick instead of the control stick (at least, it feels like he can) and it's much easier to get the maximum distance of a Shell Sling when using the C-stick. So it may be just an alternate way to do one of Squirtle's simplest tricks, but I think it's much easier and more effective way to string a bunch of Shell Slings together.

You have to jump out of the Shell Stall almost immediately. To the point where you can't even tell it was a Shell Stall, but it looks like a normal Shell Shift. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Burnsy]

Yea I'm testing it now and I'm pretty sure it isn't different, technically. The only possible difference is that I believe c-stick can be used to buffer motions ( possibly pivots???) while in shellshift.

I'm guessing this is how tricks like "hydroplane dsmash" and "hydrotilts" work the way they do. You're either buffering the pivot or the attack (not sure, maybe someone smart will tell us) when you use the cstick.

 

[SSB_Hello]

It's a neat trick. I think I might be doing it wrong/ or I can't tell. If/when you upload the video, I'll know for sure. If I am doing it right? Looks neat. Could be useful in a situation or two.

 

[Sir Skaro]

 

[Bones0]

How is it any different from simply inputting a turnaround and jumping before your momentum changes?

 

[Sir Skaro]

It's a lot easier to get the maximum distance and speed of repeated Shell Slings more consistently and more quickly(?). Other than that, it's not different at all. I think... A better man than me could tell you for sure.

 

[SpiderMad]

Is it me or is Squirtle larger in this version

 

[SSB_Hello]

Is it me or is Squirtle larger in this version

no i've had friends tell me he seems smaller lol. all an illusion of the mind.

 

[SpiderMad]

Is his shell shift animation different? or doesn't go into the ground as much or something?

 

[Burnsy]

I felt the same way when I first booted up 3.0. Its either he's slightly bigger, or his changes to compensate for SCD bug fixes make him feel larger. I'm sure something like that would not be omitted from the patch notes.

DemonHunter, I liked how your video demonstrated the mobility SS grants squirtle with your comparison, that was some good editing. I'm still not sure if I'm going to be changing up to use this shellsling method over performing it manually. I've tested on the training stage and its not very difficult for me to get within half a tile of the "rapid" method , plus it has the added benefit of giving you more control over your distance as the manual input becomes more second nature. Still, this should be helpful for some people who want an alternate method, and your video does a good job of explaining how to execute this. Who knows, maybe we'll have more need for more perfect shellslings later in Squirts metagame.

 

[Bones0]

Maybe they messed with the camera and that's why he seems bigger.

 

[SSB_Hello]

I felt the same way when I first booted up 3.0. Its either he's slightly bigger, or his changes to compensate for SCD bug fixes make him feel larger. I'm sure something like that would not be omitted from the patch notes.

DemonHunter, I liked how your video demonstrated the mobility SS grants squirtle with your comparison, that was some good editing. I'm still not sure if I'm going to be changing up to use this shellsling method over performing it manually. I've tested on the training stage and its not very difficult for me to get within half a tile of the "rapid" method , plus it has the added benefit of giving you more control over your distance as the manual input becomes more second nature. Still, this should be helpful for some people who want an alternate method, and your video does a good job of explaining how to execute this. Who knows, maybe we'll have more need for more perfect shellslings later in Squirts metagame.

lol that wasn't my video but I agree with you.

anyways guys, PM tournament saturday for me. will be a stream but dont think it'll be on the stream. I placed 7th in the last i went to so hopefully it's higher this time.

this time i won't lose to bowsers that I can't grab because of a pitiful grab range.

squirtle power. \o/

 

[Burnsy]

U got this! Turn the slipperiness up to max!

 

[SSB_Hello]

always do.

i like the change that your red dino now has a santa hat.

unfortuantely, I'm not changing my flower hat

oh gonna try and record some matches tmmrw and put them on here when I do friendlies at a friend's place.

 

[SpiderMad]

lol I thought it was some dinosaur too when I first saw it but it's Lucas' Snake

 

[Sir Skaro]

DemonHunter, I liked how your video demonstrated the mobility SS grants squirtle with your comparison, that was some good editing. I'm still not sure if I'm going to be changing up to use this shellsling method over performing it manually. I've tested on the training stage and its not very difficult for me to get within half a tile of the "rapid" method , plus it has the added benefit of giving you more control over your distance as the manual input becomes more second nature. Still, this should be helpful for some people who want an alternate method, and your video does a good job of explaining how to execute this. Who knows, maybe we'll have more need for more perfect shellslings later in Squirts metagame.

I made the video... But thank you! I completely agree with you though. I just thought it was something worth sharing. Plus I love to make videos. Also, nice hat on your snake.

And DemonHunter, best of luck to you! Remember, once you equip your shades the MU instantly becomes 10-0 for Squirtle. Just "don't get hit."

 

[SSB_Hello]

luck is for losers.

i've got #swag

No but thanks.

 

[Burnsy]

I made the video... But thank you! I completely agree with you though. I just thought it was something worth sharing. Plus I love to make videos. Also, nice hat on your snake.

Sorry , meant to say your name but I had most recently looked at his name after watching the vid. My brain got confused lol.

Also, thanks. It fits Rope Snake nicely.

 

[SSB_Hello]

Good news and bad news.

Bad news is I didn't make top three at the monthly tournament here in Toronto.

Good news is, I got fifth in a -really- neatly stacked PM bracket. Even more news is that when the videos are ripped, I'll put the videos in the thread. I even commentated on the top four!

I'll put the twitch VOD in the video thread for now though.

 

[SpiderMad]

Instead of just letting go of the ledge and doing a side-b, you also got the directional mix-up of ending up perfectly with the ground by using a WJ. Unlike Diddy though, it's more dangerous as if you do it too early you'll bounce off the wall with side-b and die: though you might be able to save yourself with a quick C-stick to Aquajet in the opposite direction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKpAOVbPODI

 

[Bones0]

Now I want to edgeguard someone by banking a withdraw off the wall... >.>

 

[Sir Skaro]

Instead of just letting go of the ledge and doing a side-b, you also got the directional mix-up of ending up perfectly with the ground by using a WJ. Unlike Diddy though, it's more dangerous as if you do it too early you'll bounce off the wall with side-b and die: though you might be able to save yourself with a quick C-stick to Aquajet in the opposite direction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKpAOVbPODI

That's super cool, I never even considered doing that. I feel like Squirtle has a lot of options from the ledge in addition to many option of grabbing the ledge from stage. One of the simplest options on the ledge and one of the best ways to kill momentum is just dropping down and clinging on the wall. It's not completely safe, but if you have 150% and <1 stocks you don't have much to lose at that point. Not only is Waterfall a huge pain in the rear to edge guard, but now I know to use a quick, high priority kill move go get back onto the stage. And with Shell Sling you can grab the ledge from half way across the stage, or even do a True Hydroplane to grab the ledge from clear across the stage. I find few things more satisfying than nabbing the ledge with a wavedash or a True Hydroplane from a Fox Illusion of a Phantom Falco. Ah...

Speaking of a True Hydroplane (when Squirtle comes out of a Shell Shift and slides across the stage standing - facing the opposite direction he is sliding), what is everyone's thoughts on integrating that into the neutral game? I heavily use the hydroplane d-smash as an approach, which usually conditions my opponent to shield and then grab. Trying to adapt to this, I've found that doing a True Hydroplane right through their shield and grabbing them on the flip side is a good counter to their shielding and often leads to a free back-throw off the stage, since the opponent slides with Squirtle. I think it's a super neat trick and a crowd pleaser, but I don't think I've ever seen it done competitively outside of myself (best Winner's Finals of my life). It's also really good for grabbing the ledge, as I mentioned earlier. Thoughts?

 

[Jawsome]

So how many Squirtle's are gonna be at Apex?!?!?! I seen Cmart and Bwett's name and I would love to do some Squirtle dittos and learn some things.

Also my favorite ledgegrab is dash into pivot grab and sliding off the edge, it's cool because he stalls for a second and just falls onto it surprising people.

Also also does anyone have tips against fighting Captain Falcon, Ike, or Charizard? Falcon dair and knee wreck my day and Ike/Charizard just always seems to outrange me.

 

[Bones0]

I may take some time to play P:M if I'm in the mood. I still haven't played 3.0 Squirtle yet.

 

[Zwarm]

I won't be able to make Apex this year

I wanted to meet more Squirtles!

 

[SSB_Hello]

squirtle dittos are dumb.

proof : me vs vivik at toronto monthly.

 

[cmart]

I kinda like Squirtle dittos - it's fun comparing the differences in styles so closely - and Squirtle has a LOT of room to be creative so you're sure to learn something.

 

[SSB_Hello]

I guess. It feels really awkward at times too.

 

[Ariyo]

So I'm pretty new to squirtle. What's a slingshot?

Edit: Should've just read the comments above

 

[Sir Skaro]

Does anyone have any advice on Squirtle's gimp game? I know bubble is one of his best options, and possibly footstooling, but what are some other good options? I need to be more aggressive off stage I feel at all of my opponents' percents.

 

[SSB_Hello]

neutral air.

uses and abuses our lovely super armor ( which is pretty great tbh and near broken at some points ) and any sort of fair if you can safetly do it. Nair is a better option.

 

[Zwarm]

Grab edge -> bair is also really good. Even if your ledge invincibility wears off, Squirtle still has an invincible tail that can beat out recoveries

 

[Sir Skaro]

I often use the grab edge -> bair, but I've never used it to attempt gimps. And I'll try out the nairs and fairs. I just met some pretty smart smashers in my town, and they analyzed me for a good 3-4 hours. They said I need to be more aggressive and in my opponent's face on and off stage and initiate more opportunities for myself. I have a very odd play style with Squirtle: I abuse his ability to hydroplane and kind of give and take center stage and kind of be a vulture, waiting for a mistake or opportunity. I know it's probably a really bad habit, but down smash helps make up for many of my bad habits. And when I'm up I often just tech/slip/zip around the stage to frustrate my opponent when I'm up and there's some distance between us. I'm going to try to merge more aggressiveness into all parts of my game. Thanks for the advice! Any more is welcome, and criticism please. I won't get salty, be brutal.

 

[SSB_Hello]

i've said it before. - nair off stage. super armor + a weird hit box. It's a good 'aggressive off the stage'. You can use it off the ledge too I know I might sound cocky when I say this but I play against high level people and nair off stage ****s with them. It's a reliable one.

It could also be that you just need more confidence entirely. I'd have to watch recent games of yours to analyze you.

 

[Bones0]

Why can't I dashdance in 3.0?

 

[Zwarm]

Shorter dash to make shellshift easier/less of a commitment. I'm finding myself not liking it either. I'm not on the ground much, but I would like to actually have a more grounded Squirtle, and this is getting in my way.

3.0 Squirtle makes me sad now. I thought I liked his changes, but I'm still getting tech chased to hell and back, it's still hard to deal with swords, and I can't even CG with f-throw anymore. It was so nice to catch someone off guard with a quick f-throw -> regrab -> up throw.

Aka I'm finding myself playing Squirtle less, and I don't like it.

 

[Bones0]

I didn't just dislike it. It made it impossible to even play... The shell shift attack never should have been designed for use in the neutral game outside of the occasional hard read on dash aways (which doesn't need a short dash animation anyway). It had a niche as a tool for tech chasing and some quirky movement, but now DDing is virtually nonexistant, and the worst part is shell shift is still an awful go-to option out of neutral. I didn't see any opportunities where I was thinking, "oh, I'm glad I was able to get into my run so fast so I could shell shift them." If they are that close, there's a million other options that are way better and safer. It's so frustrating so see such a pointless change to a character that was perfectly fine the way he was...