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[Deleted member]

Abandongo has already proven that he's viable at high level play. If tournament results aren't good enough for you, then there's no point in trying to change your opinion, I suppose.

I know better than to put too much effort into trying to argue with you.

High Tier and Top Tier are different

This just tells me that you're a whiner. Mewtwo is a fantasic character now.

They changed meta knight's ladder combo, bayonetta's o-deaths, and even a similar infinite peach had. Why should mewtwo keep his? He doesnt need it.

Maybe YOU need it, though. :/

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Ghidorah14]

High Tier and Top Tier are different

ZeRo lost to a palutena.

**** your tier lists.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Did you seriously just pull a "1v1 me bro?"

 

[ZephyrZ]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Remember back when this thread turned hostile and everyone left? Let's please not have a repeat of that. Even if we don't like each other, let's mature be mature and at least pretend to get along.

High Tier and Top Tier are different

Fair enough.

But you admit he's high tier then? When you called him uselessly fragile, I figured you were still convinced he was worthless in this game.

ZeRo lost to a palutena.

**** your tier lists.

Let's not disregard tiers entirely.
Pretty much every character has their strengths, but tier list are about consistency and match ups. Palutena isn't "bad", but she isn't ideal for tournaments either.

But that's a whole different discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Edited*

Mewtwo is viable, just not enough to consistently face off against the titans of Smash. Me calling him uselessly fragile wasn't designed to be an act of trolling, but rather, referring to how he gets killed easier than he kills.

Did you seriously just pull a "1v1 me bro?"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The problem is that he's too big, and, in addition to that, he's also floaty. That means that a weight value of 74 is actually a value of about 65 when hit with vertical attacks, this, compounded with Mewtwo's large hurtboxes, is what makes Mewtwo die earlier than Jigglypuff off the top of the stage. That is exactly why Mewtwo needs a weight buff; his current weight is inaccurate to how light he really is, by increasing his weight value, it would allow him to be floaty without being uselessly frail.

----------------------


Oh yeah I remember you, you're that troll that I ignored.

Mewtwo isn't top tier in Smash 4
and
Project M isn't a real game, last time I recalled.

welp, back to ignore for you

Great footsies
Good combos
Stupidly strong moves
Fast


Name any time I trolled, link it. I'll gladly admit I'm a 'troll' if you have any proof
Actually, I think I remember you too. Weren't you the kid who whined about Ganondorf being OP and whined Mewtwo wasn't absolutely OP?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Pay him no mind, this is the same guy who thinks Ganon is OP, tried patent a Mewtwo "tech" and has showcased his inability to adapt and learn in the neutral. Any meta related discussion coming from him should be disregarded due to his lack of coherence and maturity on the subject.

 

[Deleted member]

Pay him no mind, this is the same guy who thinks Ganon is OP, tried patent a Mewtwo "tech" and has showcased his inability to adapt and learn in the neutral. Any meta related discussion coming from him should be disregarded due to his lack of coherence and maturity on the subject.

Bro, nobody's talking to you, know your place.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Mewtwo is all about adapting. He's versatile and good at so many things, but it takes a lot of skill and knowledge to use that to it's fullest. His versatility is his greatest strength, and if you can't capitalize on that, you aren't going to be able to cover up his weakness. Of course he looks bad to players who aren't willing to learn to use him - it takes a great deal of skill to learn to play around his flaws. But it's completely doable. He's not like Little Mac, who's forced to cope with his weaknesses no matter the skill of the player. Mewtwo has a number of tools that can make him harder to hit - and harder to kill - as long as he can keep his opponent on their toes. Mewtwo has a non-linear, complicated playstyle, and if you can't play him by that, you aren't going to do the character justice.

Bro, nobody's talking to you, know your place.

I wasn't aware this discussion was invite only, or that you had the authority to make it so.
Even if it was though, I'm sure everyone here aside from you could definitely agree that Ryu has earned his place here.

 

[---]

If we're pulling rank as an argument now, I guess that's where I come in. And I for one welcome all the people over the age of 12 who have agreed to SWF's Terms/Rules & the OP Rules to post here.

We've all been through this before, so please stay respectful of each other as thread bans do exist.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What I did do for Mewtwo is raise its weight to 85 (its Melee value), and increase its falling speed to 1.68. While it does get KO'd later than before, the increased falling speed would basically make Mewtwo more vulnerable to combo attacks. Of course, its gravity would remain untouched, so it's less vulnerable to vertical KOs than fighters like Palutena, Greninja, and Luigi, who are all heavier in weight.

I never understood why Mewtwo weighs less than Pikachu, Kirby, and Mr. Game & Watch.

It should also be noted that being heavier doesn't necessarily mean that you'll live longer. Bowser may be the heaviest fighter, but he can get KO'd sooner than Donkey Kong, due to being a slower faller, and having higher gravity.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm curious. How do you guys enjoy playing Mewtwo? I love using him as Frank Castle, AKA the Punisher. Someone tries to dash attack? Punish with Fthrow to rack damage. Someone misreads or charges an attack? Shadow Ball, etc

 

[ZephyrZ]

I never understood why Mewtwo weighs less than Pikachu, Kirby, and Mr. Game & Watch.

Backwards cartoon logic. Since he's low gravity and uses his psychic powers to bounce and float around, it becomes easier to knock him around as well.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Backwards cartoon logic. Since he's low gravity and uses his psychic powers to bounce and float around, it becomes easier to knock him around as well.

The funny thing is, increasing Mewtwo's gravity would make it even "more" vulnerable to getting Star KO'd early. The fast fallers with low gravity (such as Little Mac) are more likely to survive vertical KOs longer than the fast fallers with high gravity (such as Greninja).

 

[Deleted member]

What I did do for Mewtwo is raise its weight to 85 (its Melee value), and increase its falling speed to 1.68. While it does get KO'd later than before, the increased falling speed would basically make Mewtwo more vulnerable to combo attacks. Of course, its gravity would remain untouched, so it's less vulnerable to vertical KOs than fighters like Palutena, Greninja, and Luigi, who are all heavier in weight.

I never understood why Mewtwo weighs less than Pikachu, Kirby, and Mr. Game & Watch.

It should also be noted that being heavier doesn't necessarily mean that you'll live longer. Bowser may be the heaviest fighter, but he can get KO'd sooner than Donkey Kong, due to being a slower faller, and having higher gravity.

When you say Falling Speed are you referring to Initial Gravity or Terminal Gravity?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

When you say Falling Speed are you referring to Initial Gravity or Terminal Gravity?

Falling Speed and Gravity are two different things.

Falling Speed is basically how fast the fighter will fall downward.

Gravity affects how quickly the fighter can reach his or her maximum Falling Speed value. However, Gravity also serves another purpose in that it affects how high the fighter can jump, along with affecting the fighter's vertical knockback resistance.

When you compare Little Mac to Greninja, while Greninja is heavier and falls faster than Little Mac, it's more vulnerable to vertical knockback than Little Mac, because its gravity is much higher (Greninja's 0.18 vs. Little Mac's 0.08).

 

[Deleted member]

Falling Speed and Gravity are two different things.

Falling Speed is basically how fast the fighter will fall downward.

Gravity affects how quickly the fighter can reach his or her maximum Falling Speed value. However, Gravity also serves another purpose in that it affects how high the fighter can jump, along with affecting the fighter's vertical knockback resistance.

When you compare Little Mac to Greninja, while Greninja is heavier and falls faster than Little Mac, it's more vulnerable to vertical knockback than Little Mac, because its gravity is much higher (Greninja's 0.18 vs. Little Mac's 0.08).

I understand this, However, "Falling Speed"'s technical name is Terminal Gravity (hence Terminal), which was what I was wondering about. From my time hacking Brawl, Initial Gravity does indeed alter jump height and affect how fast they reach their falling speed, however, the game reads it [Falling Speed] as "Terminal Velocity". "Falling Speed" was pretty vague and I couldn't understand what you changed, which is why I asked. I haven't used Sm4shCommand yet, so they could've changed the name, but I'm not sure.

Speaking of which, are you a Brawl/Sm4sh modder? You seem to have a good understand of the game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Speaking of which, are you a Brawl/Sm4sh modder? You seem to have a good understand of the game.

I have done hacks for Brawl and Smash Wii U. You can probably check out GAMEBANANA for my Smash Wii U hacks.

 

[Deleted member]

I have done hacks for Brawl and Smash Wii U. You can probably check out GAMEBANANA for my Smash Wii U hacks.

What hacks do you prefer to work on? (Stages, Characters, Textures, etc)

For me, personally, I enjoy Moveset and Animation hacking. However I might start to look into Cloning (Brawl).

Edit: By the way, can someone send me a gif of Mewtwo's Idle animation? ("Wait 1" only)
Frame Data, and KB/Damage values would also be helpful.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What hacks do you prefer to work on? (Stages, Characters, Textures, etc)

For me, personally, I enjoy Moveset and Animation hacking. However I might start to look into Cloning (Brawl).

I'm more into texture hacking, but I have done some material editing and game file editing as well. As for moveset edits, I did modify some of Palutena's attacks so that they're more effective to use.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm more into texture hacking, but I have done some material editing and game file editing as well. As for moveset edits, I did modify some of Palutena's attacks so that they're more effective to use.

How did you change her moves? Trajectory buffs? KB? Frame Speed Multipliers? Palutena's pretty solid as-is, though I'd reduce Autoreticle's startup lag, cut the endlag to Down-Throw and maybe remove the windboxes on her Smashes.

 

[Krysco]

Hmm, I've never seen anyone mention how they hack Sm4sh. I won't bother to ask how since I never dabbled in it myself and have no intentions to but if it's anything like it was for Brawl then my cousin may have interest in doing it. He made minor texture hacks for characters and stages back in Brawl, mostly uploaded music I believe though. If anyone is interested, I believe his username was 44silverfire and he uploaded all of his stuff to Brawlvault. Mind you, that was all back when Brawl was still relevant and he was a kid.

Can't see him wanting to do it anytime soon though since his own Wii U is currently broken (or rather, the gamepad that came with it is)

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, I've never seen anyone mention how they hack Sm4sh. I won't bother to ask how since I never dabbled in it myself and have no intentions to but if it's anything like it was for Brawl then my cousin may have interest in doing it. He made minor texture hacks for characters and stages back in Brawl, mostly uploaded music I believe though. If anyone is interested, I believe his username was 44silverfire and he uploaded all of his stuff to Brawlvault. Mind you, that was all back when Brawl was still relevant and he was a kid.

Can't see him wanting to do it anytime soon though since his own Wii U is currently broken (or rather, the gamepad that came with it is)

As a hacker, I think Sm4sh hacking has a lot of potential. Just imagine being able to create custom mods in HD, along with the new physics that Sm4sh brought in. We could make our own balance patches, or even make entirely new mods (like B-, PM, SR, etc.) The only real problem currently is that we can't hack the animations, which in turn, affects our ability to make moveset hacks.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How did you change her moves? Trajectory buffs? KB? Frame Speed Multipliers? Palutena's pretty solid as-is, though I'd reduce Autoreticle's startup lag, cut the endlag to Down-Throw and maybe remove the windboxes on her Smashes.

The biggest buffs that I gave to Palutena are to her f-tilt and Counter. F-tilt's knockback receives a strong increase to compensate for its long start-up lag; it delivers better knockback than d-tilt, but still deals up to 6% damage for the two hitboxes. As for Counter, its knockback has also been buffed drastically so that it rivals even the strength of Ike's Counter.

 

[Deleted member]

The biggest buffs that I gave to Palutena are to her f-tilt and Counter. F-tilt's knockback receives a strong increase to compensate for its long start-up lag; it delivers better knockback than d-tilt, but still deals up to 6% damage for the two hitboxes. As for Counter, its knockback has also been buffed drastically so that it rivals even the strength of Ike's Counter.

How strong was her counter before? I think Marth should be the standard for Counters, similar to how Mario's weight was the standard in Melee.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How strong was her counter before? I think Marth should be the standard for Counters, similar to how Mario's weight was the standard in Melee.

Palutena's Counter is quite pitiful, as it has a hard time securing KOs, even when it blocks heavy-hitting attacks. Most other Counters can KO more reliably.

Of course, Greninja's Substitute is far worse, since the counterattack can be blocked or interrupted.

 

[Deleted member]

Palutena's Counter is quite pitiful, as it has a hard time securing KOs, even when it blocks heavy-hitting attacks. Most other Counters can KO more reliably.

Of course, Greninja's Substitute is far worse, since the counterattack can be blocked or interrupted.

That kinda reminds me of Lucario's Down-B in Brawl. If you hit it with the lingering hitbox of one of your attacks (for example, sourspot of Mario's nair) you could shield or dodge before he could slide over there to hit you. I think that said counters should temporarily freeze time (like Shulk's) to accommodate for their gimmicky behavior.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Rich Brown and Abadango are both in top 24 at SSC. Sadly, they are both in losers.

 

[Deleted member]

Rich Brown

Please, Please, Please ♪ (please don't lose)
Please, Please (Please don't lose)

Godfather of Smash
Smash Brother No.1
Mr. Smash Smash Smash

 

[LordShade67]

I'm curious. How do you guys enjoy playing Mewtwo? I love using him as Frank Castle, AKA the Punisher. Someone tries to dash attack? Punish with Fthrow to rack damage. Someone misreads or charges an attack? Shadow Ball, etc

Primarily Footsies here. DTilt and Fair being the givens with walking, using mini Shadow Balls as a poke(like Chun-Li in Street Fighter) with the others mainly for movement, etc.But if I get openings for grabs and stuff, I'll take it, lol.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I've been working on trying to recreate Smash 4 Mewtwo's animations for Smash Reborn. This was the result

Spoiler

Just make sure you get them tech rolls right. Pure poetry, those are.

 

[Deleted member]

Just make sure you get them tech rolls right. Pure poetry, those are.

It would help me out if I had a gif of them. Do you have one?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

It would help me out if I had a gif of them. Do you have one?

Sadly, no. I've been looking too.
Off topic:

I.

HATE.

BAYONETTA.

I hate her stupid guns, I hate her cowardly playstyle, I hate her kill throw, and I hate her FREAKING STUPID TIME-SLOWING GUARANTEED TWO-FRAME COUNTER. I... I...


I need a hug...

 

[ZephyrZ]

I feel Mewtwo does fairly well against Bayonetta, thankfully. We have the proper tools we need to play patiently against her and punish when we get the opening. Mewtwo is also good enough at mind games to deal with her counter better than a lot of other characters.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

My problem is that I hate the character and her inclusion in Smash so much that I'm immediately tilted when my opponent picks her. I'd like to get more details on the MU.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

My problem is that I hate the character and her inclusion in Smash so much that I'm immediately tilted when my opponent picks her. I'd like to get more details on the MU.

Much like you, I don't like Bayonetta very much. I never even bothered purchasing her, even though I did nerf her weight. In fact, even if she maintained her pre-1.1.6 power, a weight value as low as 78 would make Bayonetta's combo game more risky to use, as she'd be more vulnerable to getting KO'd early, especially if her combos whiff.

 

[Ghidorah14]

​

I.

HATE.

BAYONETTA.

I hate her stupid guns,

BANG-BANG! DOWN-DOWN!

Do you mean her neutralB? Or bullet arts (where you hold the attack button)?

I hate her cowardly playstyle,

???

What about it is "cowardly?"

I hate her kill throw,

That is, if you want to call a move that cant kill greninja off the side @140+ percent with rage a "kill throw."

and I hate her FREAKING STUPID TIME-SLOWING GUARANTEED TWO-FRAME COUNTER.

Most of the time people get caught by this, it's because they got read or were too obvious with their attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

​

BANG-BANG! DOWN-DOWN!

Do you mean her neutralB? Or bullet arts (where you hold the attack button)?



???

What about it is "cowardly?"



That is, if you want to call a move that cant kill greninja off the side @140+ percent with rage a "kill throw."



Most of the time people get caught by this, it's because they got read or were too obvious with their attacks.

Don't try to justify this. Accept the imbalance.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Don't try to justify this. Accept the imbalance.

What imbalance? Do you seriously still think bayo is OP?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What imbalance? Do you seriously still think bayo is OP?

Honestly, don't bother with this person. I know I'm likely getting a flaming infraction, but even if you have all the proof in the world Bayo isn't OP or is at least lower tier than Mewtwo, this kid won't believe it. He legitimately called Ganondorf fast and thinks Mewtwo STILL isn't a good character. I understand the Bayonetta hate getting to you, as people were literally just refusing to adapt, but don't bother with this guy. His idea of balance is making Mewtwo the best character in the game and nerfing Ganondorf

 

[Ghidorah14]

Well, Bayo is something of a "scrub killer" type of character, so I guess I can see what his problem is.