Social Spoon Sword Social

[Krysco]

Guess I'll chime into this discussion. All the 64 reps have that issue since they were made on a simple console with simple thoughts in mind and stayed true to that even if they could be more complex. Namely Link and Samus who canonically have far more to their disposal than what Smash has ever given them.

Every Melee clone is in a similar boat but replace simplicity with similarities. Ganon is the obvious go to since he's hardly like his canonical self. And yes, there are videos and such showing that certain parts of Ganon's Brawl moveset onward is loosely based on stuff from the games and yet he still doesn't use his sword (outside of a single custom and taunt) and he still doesn't use magic outside of pretty visual effects trying to disguise his Falcon clone origins. Toon Link who is the new Young Link canonically has access to things no 'normal' Link has ever had like the grappling hook and the Deku Leaf and yet he's still sharing the same specials as Link to portray the 'smaller, faster, weaker Link'.

Go to Brawl and you pretty much have completely or mostly original newcomers entirely. Wolf shares specials with the other two and shares moves with a few other characters but his claw based combat is rather unique for someone who isn't a clawed winged or wingless lizard. Lucas has similar specials to Ness but rather different normals and relies on a tether. MK, D3, Snake, kinda Sonic, Ike, PT, Diddy, Wario, Pit, ZSS, Lucario, Olimar all unique more or less. Melee had its fair share of unique newcomers too like Shielda, Bowser, Peach and Mewtwo but the clones are still there.

Then comes in Sm4sh where every newcomer (barring DP and Lucina) had to 'wow' people in some way with some wacky new toy. Wii Fit was a pure WTF, Villager is pretty tame, Megaman is choked full of projectiles and every move is from his games. Rosa is the first puppet user, Mac is the antithesis of Puff, all ground and no air. Robin has weapon duration and a projectile that does different things based on the level of charge. Greninja is tame. Jr's biggest wow was being each individual Koopaling which was new for Smash. Miis are customizeable. Shulk has Monado Arts. Palutena was the customs show off. PAC-MAN...I can't even find the words. Most of them are relatively minor 'wow's. Then dlc came. 3 vets who missed out on Brawl and/or Sm4sh initial release and then **** hit the fan. Ryu gets more moves than anyone else and extra inputs for specials with better effects. Cloud gets Limit. Corrin gets crazy range, a dual charge projectile, TURNING INTO A DRAGON. And Bayo gets crazy combos and projectiles that aren't actually projectiles attached to nearly every move.

And all of this is to 'not alienate' players who liked a character. Giving Ganon a sword? B-but then the people who like Ganon as he is would be lost! Bayo and Ryu getting crazy extra **** though? Perfectly fine since they're new.

TL;DR the newer a character is, the more **** they get since they aren't held back by simplicity or fear of alienation. Meanwhile, and are quite different from past games and get a hearty 'oh well'.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

I'll probably be going to KTAR, my schedule is open. But, I'll be playing only singles. Mewtwo for as many matchups as I can, and if needed I'll prepare Corrin and G&W.

 

[Metallinatus]

Just a few things I'd like to say:
Ganondorf used a sword in like only two games canonically, one of those being Toon Ganondorf.
I honestly prefer the "simple" classic standard that Smash Bros had instead of something completely different and out of place, although I must say that the only character that reeeeeeeally feels out of place for me in Smash is Ryu....
I also miss the days where half the cast couldn't return to the stage from the freaking blast zone. Recoveries got too damn op Brawl onwards.
I support Sakurai's decision on not changing too much the veteran characters, and I 100% support his not-changing-Ganondorf policy. He may not look too canonical (hey, neither does Falcon, Fox, Falco, DK, etc etc), but he is super badass and extremely satisfying to play with.... when you're not getting stomped to Hell.... (that's why all Ganon needs is a buff). He is the king of disrespect the way he is for a reason.
And lastly, I would like to add that although Samus remains with almost all her 64 moves to this day, they got tweaked so much in 4 that she feels 100% different from the previous games.... and although I love super combo S4mus, I miss so Hell much the Melee Samus.... which also feels a Hell more canonical to play with.
Many Hells were given this day.

 

[/Lucina]

I think a teleport with no free fall like Project M would be pretty fun for mind games and stuff. I think the PM team went a little overboard with Mewtwo at first, but that was a good addition.

Yeah, imagine being able to do a teleport to fair or even a teleport to dair spike. Stuff like that would make for fun 'surprise!' KO's and really hammer home that Mewtwo's weak but receives tricky, swift movement and power in return.

 

[Furret24]

I also miss the days where half the cast couldn't return to the stage from the freaking blast zone. Recoveries got too damn op Brawl onwards.

I hope the next Smash game finds the perfect balance for recoveries. Most 64 and Melee recoveries are laughably terrible while most recoveries in Brawl and Smash 4 are stupidly good.

Also yay. 3000 posts.

 

[Aninymouse]

I'm okay with characters having decent recoveries. The ones who do tend to do some pretty hype stuff off-stage. In a game that has heretofore used two stocks, you can't afford to do anything too flashy off-stage unless you know you can make it back, so...

On the stock issue, I'm glad more people are giving 3-stock Smash 4 a chance. It seems like a healthier meta and players seem to like it better overall.

 

[Krysco]

Well the character that is Ganondorf and not Ganon has been in what? 3 games? OoT, WW and TP? Every other game, it's either Ganon, Demise or someone trying to bring back Ganon. In OoT Ganon had dual swords or whatever blade they were but he was also a giant beast. The Ganondorf fight was a magic one and that's another thing he lacks in Sm4sh. The character that is Ganondorf, cartoony or otherwise has been shown fighting with a sword more often than without and he's also used magic in 2 of those 3 fights. More specifically, TP Ganon uses both magic and swordplay and that's the Ganon we have in Smash.

As for recoveries, I actually enjoyed Brawls recoveries. You had good ones and then all the okay ones and bad ones were beaten by edgehogging which is gone now. I would actually love Sm4sh's ledge trumping if everyone had recoveries like Mac, Cloud and the entire Melee cast where you have to actually space your recovery properly to ledge snap.

I find shields to be in a similar boat. In 64 and Melee, shields are largely a joke where as in Brawl and Sm4sh they're too good. Shields should defend you effectively from attacks but you shouldn't be able to run away for a mere 2 seconds and get your shield back.

 

[Metallinatus]

I hope the next Smash game finds the perfect balance for recoveries. Most 64 and Melee recoveries are laughably terrible while most recoveries in Brawl and Smash 4 are stupidly good.

Also yay. 3000 posts.

I think they were well balanced on Melee already, but really bad in 64....
And congrats on posting 6x more than me with one less week to do it

 

[Furret24]

And congrats on posting 6x more than me with one less week to do it

I didn't actually use this account at all until June 19 last year, so it's more of seven months.

 

[Metallinatus]

Well the character that is Ganondorf and not Ganon has been in what? 3 games? OoT, WW and TP? Every other game, it's either Ganon, Demise or someone trying to bring back Ganon. In OoT Ganon had dual swords or whatever blade they were but he was also a giant beast. The Ganondorf fight was a magic one and that's another thing he lacks in Sm4sh. The character that is Ganondorf, cartoony or otherwise has been shown fighting with a sword more often than without and he's also used magic in 2 of those 3 fights. More specifically, TP Ganon uses both magic and swordplay and that's the Ganon we have in Smash.

As for recoveries, I actually enjoyed Brawls recoveries. You had good ones and then all the okay ones and bad ones were beaten by edgehogging which is gone now. I would actually love Sm4sh's ledge trumping if everyone had recoveries like Mac, Cloud and the entire Melee cast where you have to actually space your recovery properly to ledge snap.

I find shields to be in a similar boat. In 64 and Melee, shields are largely a joke where as in Brawl and Sm4sh they're too good. Shields should defend you effectively from attacks but you shouldn't be able to run away for a mere 2 seconds and get your shield back.

Now that you made me think about it, I think you're right lol I never realized that Ganondorf had appeared in so few titles....
As for shields, honestly, I think Melee shields are OP.... the game got almost no shield stun, no shield damage, I see more shield breaks in Smash in a week than I see in Meele in an whole year....

 

[Krysco]

Now that you made me think about it, I think you're right lol I never realized that Ganondorf had appeared in so few titles....
As for shields, honestly, I think Melee shields are OP.... the game got almost no shield stun, no shield damage, I see more shield breaks in Smash in a week than I see in Meele in an whole year....

I don't pay attention to much Melee so I could easily be wrong about the shields in that game. I know it has light and heavy shielding so maybe that helps make them better. Or maybe I'm too used to seeing the memetastic multishine that eats shields for breakfast.

 

[LRodC]

When people complain about shields, I think they're referring more to the fact that they regenerate so quickly and that things are unsafe on them, not that they're hard to break. I'm almost certain that shields are easier to break in this game than any other, with some characters like Bowser, Ganondorf, Ryu, and Marth/Lucina having dedicated options for shield breaking, as well as customs for some characters like Meta Knight and Zelda.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't see why they couldn't of de-cloned Ganon even more and still maintain his all-power no-speed play style.

For instance, you could replace Warlock Punch with some other stupidly powerful and slow attack, and yet still make it look nothing like Captain Falcon's. And they could make more changes like they did in Brawl with his more unique F-tilt and whatnot.

And his Up Tilt really looks awkward on him. Please change the animation next time, Nintendo.

 

[Metallinatus]

I don't pay attention to much Melee so I could easily be wrong about the shields in that game. I know it has light and heavy shielding so maybe that helps make them better. Or maybe I'm too used to seeing the memetastic multishine that eats shields for breakfast.

Well, yeah, of course, there would be more shield breaks, mostly thanks to stuff like multishine, if players didn't put them down to avoid that, but again, the complete lack of real shield stun helps a lot on doing that while in 4 it is quite easy to put foes trapped in shield stun after that famous patch....
Plus, most of the times the shield gets small in Melee you end up hitting some exposed hurtbox instead of the shield....
And you probably noticed, but when I spoke of "Smash in a week" in the last post, I meant to say "Smash 4"

 

[Krysco]

I could see Ganon getting a revamped moveset in a future game. Yoshi got it in this game and Falco, Marth and Samus have either slightly different moves or different playstyles from previous games.

 

[Metallinatus]

When people complain about shields, I think they're referring more to the fact that they regenerate so quickly and that things are unsafe on them, not that they're hard to break. I'm almost certain that shields are easier to break in this game than any other, with some characters like Bowser, Ganondorf, Ryu, and Marth/Lucina having dedicated options for shield breaking, as well as customs for some characters like Meta Knight and Zelda.

Wait-wait-wait-wait, I agree with being easier than on the other two games, but 64? 64 doesn't even need dedicated options, the thing has shield stun for days, basically if you shield anything in that game you have a 60% chance to get shield broken by a simple inescapable string lol

 

[meleebrawler]

Well the character that is Ganondorf and not Ganon has been in what? 3 games? OoT, WW and TP? Every other game, it's either Ganon, Demise or someone trying to bring back Ganon. In OoT Ganon had dual swords or whatever blade they were but he was also a giant beast. The Ganondorf fight was a magic one and that's another thing he lacks in Sm4sh. The character that is Ganondorf, cartoony or otherwise has been shown fighting with a sword more often than without and he's also used magic in 2 of those 3 fights. More specifically, TP Ganon uses both magic and swordplay and that's the Ganon we have in Smash.

Problem is if they're gonna take a spell from Ganondorf it's probably going to be the Dead Man's Volley magic ball, which as Dedede has proven is SO effective. TP Ganon does use magic... on horseback.

It seems that Demitri Maximoff is basically what some people want Smash Ganondorf to be.

I don't see why they couldn't of de-cloned Ganon even more and still maintain his all-power no-speed play style.

For instance, you could replace Warlock Punch with some other stupidly powerful and slow attack, and yet still make it look nothing like Captain Falcon's. And they could make more changes like they did in Brawl with his more unique F-tilt and whatnot.

And his Up Tilt really looks awkward on him. Please change the animation next time, Nintendo.

Too bad Hyrule Warriors has him using the Warlock Punch (admittedly with an added projectile), so it's probably too ingrained by this point.

As he is Ganondorf pretty much DOES embody the way he fights as a boss: very slow moving (TP Ganondorf pretty much runs as fast as Smash Ganondorf) while hitting like a truck. He just needs a little extra something, like floating or a teleport move.

 

[U-Throw]

Well, I've certainly missed a lot. Anyhow, I don't have much to say in regards to all of the more technical stuff being discussed right now, but I guess I'll chime in on all of Smash 4's gimmicky newcomers. Personally, I don't mind it. Smash 64, Melee, and several of Brawl's newcomers are relatively simple, so we've just started getting into gimmicky characters, and I definitely think that it's a normal, healthy thing. To me, it seems as though most video game series start off with relatively simple games, and, once the series has an established formula, the developers start to shake it up with some kind of gimmick. Smash is no exception, so, now that it's got an established formula, Sakurai is trying to change it up a bit by introducing gimmicky characters. As long as simpler characters maintain their simplicity throughout the series, I have no problem with gimmicky characters. It takes all kinds to make a diverse roster, and, now that most of the "simple" character archetypes have been fulfilled, introducing more complex characters is the most logical recourse. Honestly, part of the reason I've decided to pick up Corrin as my secondary is because she's one of Smash 4's more complex characters, whereas Mewtwo is relatively simple in comparison. I don't know if I'd call Corrin a "gimmick character", but she's certainly very unique and fresh-feeling. After using basically no-one but Mewtwo since April of last year, Corrin is very refreshing to play as every once in awhile.

As for Ganondorf's current moveset, I'm one of those people that thinks Ganondorf should get a more self-accurate moveset, while his current one should be given to Black Shadow. It's the best of both worlds. Plus, in my opinion, it makes much more sense, especially since I have trouble coming up with a completely original moveset for Black Shadow, seeing as he's usually racing in his F-Zero machine and all.

Also, I know that I'm really late to the party, but I think Magiana looks cool. She sorta looks like a robotic version of Diancie, actually. I wonder if there's a connection. Perhaps Team Flare decided to take a page out of Team Rocket's book and create a more powerful duplicate of their region's cutesy Mythical Pokémon? Is Magiana Kalos's answer to Mewtwo? ...Well, that's probably a tad Farfetch'd, but it'd be pretty neat if it were true!

 

[Nobie]

As much as I wanted Ganondorf to have a different moveset for Smash 4, I finally understand why it didn't happen: time.

With a roster as huge as Smash 4's, Sakurai and the Smash team probably had to cut corners wherever they could. The fact that he already put in a few things to somewhat declone Ganondorf in Brawl (completely different stance, different animations on similar attacks) likely meant that Brawl GDorf was considered "different enough." Like someone talked about how Warlock Punch looks too much like Falcon Punch, but the animations now are nothing alike (flourish into backhand vs. rear back into straight).

Personally speaking, I always thought Ganondorf should be a clone of MEWTWO if anything, but given that Ganondorf doesn't have a tail (though some GANONs do!), I know that's not really possible given that their actual 3d models are just too different. But c'mon, dark energy, teleportation, and a reflector to play volleyball with?

I've said it before, but I think if they just gave Ganondorf a teleport it would be enough to make Ganondorf feel properly Dorf-like while also filling in some of the holes in his game plan.

 

[Krysco]

Problem is if they're gonna take a spell from Ganondorf it's probably going to be the Dead Man's Volley magic ball, which as Dedede has proven is SO effective. TP Ganon does use magic... on horseback.

It seems that Demitri Maximoff is basically what some people want Smash Ganondorf to be.



Too bad Hyrule Warriors has him using the Warlock Punch (admittedly with an added projectile), so it's probably too ingrained by this point.

As he is Ganondorf pretty much DOES embody the way he fights as a boss: very slow moving (TP Ganondorf pretty much runs as fast as Smash Ganondorf) while hitting like a truck. He just needs a little extra something, like floating or a teleport move.

No idea who this Demitri individual is but I'm guessing someone with a sword and projectiles. And Gordos or a variantion of them would likely be better for Ganon than Warlock Punch, no matter how much fun it is to land the latter. I feel like Ike and now Robin to a point have taken any unique sword moveset Ganon could've had. Heck, people complained or at least made jokes when Shulk, Robin, Roy and Cloud were all announced because 'too many swordsmen'. Ike's the heavy hitting one while Robin is the spellsword. Ganon's best bet would be a mix of the two but it's not exactly unique. Course his drawback would still be poor frame data and likely a poor recovery.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Too bad Hyrule Warriors has him using the Warlock Punch (admittedly with an added projectile), so it's probably too ingrained by this point.

Well, that's just Hyrule Warriors for you. They'll use anything, even if it's obscure. Link's Power Gloves, for instance, where he swings around a Chain Chomp. Or Linkle using green to show her rapid fire and red for bomb arrows, like in Link's Crossbow Training.

 

[meleebrawler]

No idea who this Demitri individual is but I'm guessing someone with a sword and projectiles. And Gordos or a variantion of them would likely be better for Ganon than Warlock Punch, no matter how much fun it is to land the latter. I feel like Ike and now Robin to a point have taken any unique sword moveset Ganon could've had. Heck, people complained or at least made jokes when Shulk, Robin, Roy and Cloud were all announced because 'too many swordsmen'. Ike's the heavy hitting one while Robin is the spellsword. Ganon's best bet would be a mix of the two but it's not exactly unique. Course his drawback would still be poor frame data and likely a poor recovery.

A vampire and, despite what her myriad crossover appearances would lead you to believe, co-protagonist of the Darkstalkers series alongside Morrigan Aensland.

He doesn't use a sword, but controls fire which he manifest as fire bats.

 

[Aninymouse]

As for Ganondorf's current moveset, I'm one of those people that thinks Ganondorf should get a more self-accurate moveset, while his current one should be given to Black Shadow. It's the best of both worlds. Plus, in my opinion, it makes much more sense, especially since I have trouble coming up with a completely original moveset for Black Shadow, seeing as he's usually racing in his F-Zero machine and all.

You guys might think I'm mean, but unless they make another F-Zero game to reboot the series, I do not want any other F-Zero characters in Smash. I love Captain Falcon. He's practically the Smash Bros. mascot. However, the vast majority of his abilities and personality are completely fabricated. Black Shadow is "literally who" tier.

I think if they kept Smash 4 Ganondorf, they could replace his Cpt. Falcon Fsmash with that magic sword. The elbow looks really out of place.

Giving Ganondorf a magic projectile would be great, but I'm not sure which move I'd replace. Utilt on fat Ganon looks stupid, but everyone loves the style points of Utilt. I dunno. I could see getting rid of Wizard's Foot, I guess, but I'm not sure that'd actually help him so much as please fan's sensibilities.

 

[LRodC]

On one hand, don't want them to get rid of Ganon's up tilt. Yeah, I know, it's mostly useless in 1 vs 1 except for edgeguarding situations and he doesn't really need the move, but damn it's a satisfying move to land. In FFAs, it's really fun to use it and break someone's shield. On the other hand though, I would like an actually useful up tilt, so I'm pretty torn.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Just change U-tilt's animation.
Then you can disrespect people and not look incredibly awkward doing it.

 

[Aninymouse]

So, for something completely different, I'll share a Smash 3DS screenshot gallery that I've been working on for the past year!

http://imgur.com/a/0LMJ4

A good chunk are ones I took, but the vast majority are from random people from all over the world.


If any of you has a cool Smash 3DS screenshot that you'd like to share, please do! I'd love to fill my collection with funny, beautiful, weird, nostalgic, and hype pictures. I have shots of every character, but I have more of some than others. I still have a lot of ideas I haven't done yet, actually.

 

[Krysco]

A vampire and, despite what her myriad crossover appearances would lead you to believe, co-protagonist of the Darkstalkers series alongside Morrigan Aensland.

He doesn't use a sword, but controls fire which he manifest as fire bats.

I have no idea how I forgot who that was. Granted, I've never played Darkstalkers before but I used to watch a lot of matches of the game. Don't entirely recall Demitri's moveset. Recall Felicia and Talbain more.

 

[meleebrawler]

I have no idea how I forgot who that was. Granted, I've never played Darkstalkers before but I used to watch a lot of matches of the game. Don't entirely recall Demitri's moveset. Recall Felicia and Talbain more.

Probably because his only crossover appearances are in rather obscure titles, compared to Morrigan who has been in pretty much any Capcom crossover you can think of (with a toss-up between Felicia and Hsien-Ko).

He is basically the Ryu of his game alongside Morrigan.

Edit: Fun fact, in his games he's voiced by Nobuyuki Hiyama, the voice of adult Link in Ocarina of Time.

 

[420quickscoper]

Mewtwo is placed 18th on Abadango's 1.1.4 tier list. Thoughts?

 

[Smashifer]

Okay guys, I'm not sure if everyone here pays attention to ZeRo's videos on YouTube, but on his recent Marth analysis video, I had made a comment asking for what he thinks about post-patch Mewtwo, since he said that pre-patch was awful, but of course we all know Mewtwo's so, so much better now.
My comment's already gotten about 112 likes! But... it's also gotten an extremely negative amount of comments, being almost at 62 with it just being one big debate on whether Mewtwo has gotten out of low-tier now. It's been namely me and one other defending him, but people just won't listen to what I'm saying and are downright dismissing his strengths simply because of his flaws.
One person even said that
"His whole moveset is just situational at best. His combos are situational, his specials are situational, his kill moves are, well, situational. They all work well, but only under the correct circumstances (which usually aren't met). When summed up, Mewtwo is a glass Canon with good kill potential and proper tools, but the larger half of the roster can usually nullify those tools with their own. He's a gimmicky style character, meant to use unorthodox play styles to score stylish and humiliating kills. But as far as competitive viability goes he is outclassed."
...Which I don't even know how to respond to.


Also, Mewtwo at 18th? I mean... I guess I like it? But then it's still feels like some might very dislike his placing there...

 

[LRodC]

So, for something completely different, I'll share a Smash 3DS screenshot gallery that I've been working on for the past year!

http://imgur.com/a/0LMJ4

A good chunk are ones I took, but the vast majority are from random people from all over the world.


If any of you has a cool Smash 3DS screenshot that you'd like to share, please do! I'd love to fill my collection with funny, beautiful, weird, nostalgic, and hype pictures. I have shots of every character, but I have more of some than others. I still have a lot of ideas I haven't done yet, actually.

Very nice. There's a lot of good pictures there, especially considering that the 3DS version doesn't take as good ones as the Wii U version.

Taking screenshots is actually a really underrated thing. In Smash, there are so many possibilities for good photos. There are 55 different characters plus the Miis that can be pretty much anyone, and there are a ton of stages and assist trophies/Pokemon to take into account as well. I'd actually consider taking some pictures myself for both versions.

 

[420quickscoper]

Okay guys, I'm not sure if everyone here pays attention to ZeRo's videos on YouTube, but on his recent Marth analysis video, I had made a comment asking for what he thinks about post-patch Mewtwo, since he said that pre-patch was awful, but of course we all know Mewtwo's so, so much better now.
My comment's already gotten about 112 likes! But... it's also gotten an extremely negative amount of comments, being almost at 62 with it just being one big debate on whether Mewtwo has gotten out of low-tier now. It's been namely me and one other defending him, but people just won't listen to what I'm saying and are downright dismissing his strengths simply because of his flaws.
One person even said that
"His whole moveset is just situational at best. His combos are situational, his specials are situational, his kill moves are, well, situational. They all work well, but only under the correct circumstances (which usually aren't met). When summed up, Mewtwo is a glass Canon with good kill potential and proper tools, but the larger half of the roster can usually nullify those tools with their own. He's a gimmicky style character, meant to use unorthodox play styles to score stylish and humiliating kills. But as far as competitive viability goes he is outclassed."
...Which I don't even know how to respond to.


Also, Mewtwo at 18th? I mean... I guess I like it? But then it's still feels like some might very dislike his placing there...

Are you that guy named mildewww or something? A name like that? Actually I'm now 100% sure you are.

Anyways...

you could reply back with my message right here, in quotes.

"It's true that Mewtwo is a really light character but in some situations that doesn't matter. Unless your opponent has very easy kill confirms off of grabs, something like DK has, then yes, it's a problem. But it really only matters if you make bad decisions.

I don't think a character that has this whole package is outclassed. Let's see... hm...

1. Great ground game with very useful tilts and fast dashing and walking speed
2. Amazing combo game, having a ton of moves combo into each other; down tilt is even better than a lot of down throws in the game, too.
3. A top 15 or maybe even top 10 aerial set
4. One of the best forward airs in the game, possibly even Top 3
5. Amazing projectile
6. Great evasive ability, with the best air dodge and one of the best air speeds
7. Command grab AND reflector and a use as another recovery
8. Did I mention that his recovery is really good...?
9. Great range

That's the biggest ones I could name, and.. well, having all that? I don't think that's low tier or outclassed.

Let's look at his two biggest flaws in my opinion:

Size and out of shield game.

I've noticed WAY too many people say that his light weight is his biggest flaw. It's not. His size is a bigger matter, though, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

For his out of shield game, I don't know why people don't mention this but M2 has a pretty hard time punishing out of shield. He has terrible traction so it's a lot harder for him to run in and get in a dash attack or something. In addition to that, he lacks a move that comes out on frame 3 or less.

I think frame data is probably his 3rd biggest problem, but it DOES make sense. Remember, the reason Mario and Luigi have such good frame data is that their range is lackluster. Mewtwo, on the other hand, has quite a good amount of range thanks to his stunning tail attacks."

End quote, use that if you want to.

Now, then, here's something that really bothers me.

Ever since he did the video on pre-patch Mewtwo, it kind of feels like that ZeRo absolutely ignored him. Here's my reason.

Mewtwo was probably, by far, the most wanted character for an analysis, because he was pretty much the most buffed character in the patch, and he wasn't very good before at all.

And you know what ZeRo did?

He did an analysis on Dark Pit, Lucas, and Shulk.
"So a lot of people have been wondering..."
The thing is, the character that an actual lot of people have been wondering about is Mewtwo.

He's barely been spoken about within ZeRo. I don't know why he ignores him.

What's more annoying is that he, a lot of the time just talks about top tiers when top tiers aren't the one we're wondering about, are we?

I've heard him say over and over again in his videos "Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina"
seriously, I've heard that way too many times.

 

[Smashifer]

Are you that guy named mildewww or something? A name like that? Actually I'm now 100% sure you are.

Anyways...

you could reply back with my message right here, in quotes.

"It's true that Mewtwo is a really light character but in some situations that doesn't matter. Unless your opponent has very easy kill confirms off of grabs, something like DK has, then yes, it's a problem. But it really only matters if you make bad decisions.

I don't think a character that has this whole package is outclassed. Let's see... hm...

1. Great ground game with very useful tilts and fast dashing and walking speed
2. Amazing combo game, having a ton of moves combo into each other; down tilt is even better than a lot of down throws in the game, too.
3. A top 15 or maybe even top 10 aerial set
4. One of the best forward airs in the game, possibly even Top 3
5. Amazing projectile
6. Great evasive ability, with the best air dodge and one of the best air speeds
7. Command grab AND reflector and a use as another recovery
8. Did I mention that his recovery is really good...?
9. Great range

That's the biggest ones I could name, and.. well, having all that? I don't think that's low tier or outclassed.

Let's look at his two biggest flaws in my opinion:

Size and out of shield game.

I've noticed WAY too many people say that his light weight is his biggest flaw. It's not. His size is a bigger matter, though, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

For his out of shield game, I don't know why people don't mention this but M2 has a pretty hard time punishing out of shield. He has terrible traction so it's a lot harder for him to run in and get in a dash attack or something. In addition to that, he lacks a move that comes out on frame 3 or less.

I think frame data is probably his 3rd biggest problem, but it DOES make sense. Remember, the reason Mario and Luigi have such good frame data is that their range is lackluster. Mewtwo, on the other hand, has quite a good amount of range thanks to his stunning tail attacks."

Yes, I am mildeww. Thanks for all of this, hopefully people will see how well Mewtwo can perform.

 

[420quickscoper]

Yes, I am mildeww. Thanks for all of this, hopefully people will see how well Mewtwo can perform.

uh, kinda off topic, but... if you don't mind... could I play some 3DS dittos with ya? kinda bored right now and you're a pretty interesting guy, I want to see if you're up to it.

Also, you might want to add some stuff about Mewtwo's combo game: "Mewtwo can deal over 30 damage, with something like Jab, down tilt, fair fair or Jab, down tilt, nair, bair/fair. His combo game is really good. Seriously, all you need to do is just use a down tilt that's not spaced on your opponent and most of the time that's 20-30 damage.

If you include short hop neutral air into your low percent combos then Mewtwo deals 40-50 damage. I can't really do all that very well, but when mastered it'll be devastating.

 

[Smashifer]

uh, kinda off topic, but... if you don't mind... could I play some 3DS dittos with ya? kinda bored right now and you're a pretty interesting guy, I want to see if you're up to it.

Also, you might want to add some stuff about Mewtwo's combo game: "Mewtwo can deal over 30 damage, with something like Jab, down tilt, fair fair or Jab, down tilt, nair, bair/fair. His combo game is really good. Seriously, all you need to do is just use a down tilt that's not spaced on your opponent and most of the time that's 20-30 damage.

Ooh, I honestly wish I could, but I'm out of town for my granddad's funeral for a few days. I could try later on today since I'm staying at my uncle's place so once I get settled down and connected I'd love to do some matches with you.

And I've tried all I could do emphasize Mewtwo's combo game but they're not accepting it because they think you can only get one dtilt and that's it after that combo. I've discussed a few more combos like his f-air > grab > fthrow combo that is true and deals 36% at the beginning of the match and one dude says I'm "overhyping" his combos.

Seriously.

 

[420quickscoper]

Ooh, I honestly wish I could, but I'm out of town for my granddad's funeral for a few days. I could try later on today since I'm staying at my uncle's place so once I get settled down and connected I'd love to do some matches with you.

And I've tried all I could do emphasize Mewtwo's combo game but they're not accepting it because they think you can only get one dtilt and that's it after that combo. I've discussed a few more combos like his f-air > grab > fthrow combo that is true and deals 36% at the beginning of the match and one dude says I'm "overhyping" his combos.

Seriously.

Alright, great!


Wow, that's really stupid. I wish some people knew about Mewtwo a little bit more.

When do you think we've got time to play?

 

[Smashifer]

Alright, great!


Wow, that's really stupid. I wish some people knew about Mewtwo a little bit more.

When do you think we've got time to play?

Ehh, I'm not too sure myself... I don't know today's schedule at all, but I'd like to say around 9:00 PM Central?

 

[420quickscoper]

Ehh, I'm not too sure myself... I don't know today's schedule at all, but I'd like to say around 9:00 PM Central?

Ah, I'll see.

 

[Murlough]

Ooh, I honestly wish I could, but I'm out of town for my granddad's funeral for a few days. I could try later on today since I'm staying at my uncle's place so once I get settled down and connected I'd love to do some matches with you.

And I've tried all I could do emphasize Mewtwo's combo game but they're not accepting it because they think you can only get one dtilt and that's it after that combo. I've discussed a few more combos like his f-air > grab > fthrow combo that is true and deals 36% at the beginning of the match and one dude says I'm "overhyping" his combos.

Seriously.

I would ignore anything most youtube commenters say anyway.

Edit: props to you for trying to get ZeRo's attention though.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Two things to catch up on the conversation.
1. Ganondorf is not a problem, as he actually appears in multiple Zelda games as the Gerudo King. On the other hand, Sheik is ONLY in Ocarina of Time and Hyrule Warriors. That's it. Why do we still have Sheik when we can have Impa instead? I'd take a Sheikah with a halberd over the monstrous top tier we have now any day of the week.
2. I can't really advocate for a numerical placement for Mewtwo since I don't believe in numerical placement for this game. I came up with this system instead, for those who are the same way about characters and their tier placements. As Nakat said, "Do we really need a J Tier?"

I put Mewtwo in Upper Viable.