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[LRodC]

That's MewSquared . I believe he got 3 at Shockwave 63 Y Yonder .

He always places pretty high and is PR'ed. I think his main problem is the Shiek and ZSS that are usually in top 8.

Oh yeah, I know MewSquared is great, I'm not trying to put him down at all or his opponents. He's an excellent player for sure. But ZeRo is the most popular player so people will talk about the Jonny Westside Samus thing more no matter what. We know of MewSquared, but the mainstream competitive Smash population is heavily aware of ZeRo so that will get more press no matter how impressive the win. ESAM, Larry, Dabuz, Nairo are all in that group as well. I think when Mewtwo takes a game off of these guys, that's when he'll gain the respect he deserves from the general population.

So, here's what I think of Mewtwo's matchup chart.
http://smashcompendium.com/matchup-chart/qbxktrswgvejniah/
I'm sure you'll see some weird opinions, but it's just me. I'm not too good with matchups.

Just curious, why do you think we beat Kirby so hard? Not disagreeing or anything, I'd just like to know the reasoning.

 

[Krysco]

In regards to the Pokemon talk, I've dabbled in competitive play. I really enjoy watching matches and my favourite format is doubles with all 6 Pokemon available (XD got me to love it so much). My cousin prefers triples. I don't have the mentality to actually get into competitive Pokemon though and plus I can't stand gen VI.

On a more Smash related note, I finally got to try SLHG with my cousin though I'm not too big a fan of Mewtwo in that mode. Falco is glorious though, reminds me a bit of Wolf.

 

[420quickscoper]

Oh yeah, I know MewSquared is great, I'm not trying to put him down at all or his opponents. He's an excellent player for sure. But ZeRo is the most popular player so people will talk about the Jonny Westside Samus thing more no matter what. We know of MewSquared, but the mainstream competitive Smash population is heavily aware of ZeRo so that will get more press no matter how impressive the win. ESAM, Larry, Dabuz, Nairo are all in that group as well. I think when Mewtwo takes a game off of these guys, that's when he'll gain the respect he deserves from the general population.



Just curious, why do you think we beat Kirby so hard? Not disagreeing or anything, I'd just like to know the reasoning.

Reasons:

Kirby is easy to kill and Mewtwo is a great killer.
Some of our combos still work on Kirby.
Mewtwo outclasses him in speed outside of frame data.
Mewtwo can outspace Kirby since he has a lot more range.

Also, Kirby using Shadow Ball isn't too much of a threat when we have Confusion and he has no way to reflect it back.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Reasons:

Kirby is easy to kill and Mewtwo is a great killer.
Some of our combos still work on Kirby.
Mewtwo outclasses him in speed outside of frame data.
Mewtwo can outspace Kirby since he has a lot more range.

Also, Kirby using Shadow Ball isn't too much of a threat when we have Confusion and he has no way to reflect it back.

That is actually a very good analysis...

 

[420quickscoper]

That is actually a very good analysis...

Eh, it's mediocre.

 

[Furret24]

Eh, it's mediocre.

Your reasoning is still pretty solid though.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Eh, it's mediocre.

Compared to most analysis I have seen it is very grounded in fact and unbiased.

 

[420quickscoper]

You're reasoning is still pretty solid though.

I am the reasoning.

Anyways, thank you.

I could provide some decent information on the Ryu matchup too.

 

[Furret24]

Is that a typo?

yes

 

[Yonder]

Only pain of M2 vs Kirby is really that he is a pain to grab due to his short stature.

 

[LRodC]

So, here's what I think of Mewtwo's matchup chart.
http://smashcompendium.com/matchup-chart/qbxktrswgvejniah/
I'm sure you'll see some weird opinions, but it's just me. I'm not too good with matchups.

Reasons:

Kirby is easy to kill and Mewtwo is a great killer.
Some of our combos still work on Kirby.
Mewtwo outclasses him in speed outside of frame data.
Mewtwo can outspace Kirby since he has a lot more range.

Also, Kirby using Shadow Ball isn't too much of a threat when we have Confusion and he has no way to reflect it back.

There is one factor that you're forgetting that makes the match up harder, and that's his crouch. His crouch can dodge almost anything we throw out on the ground except for down smash, down tilt, and low angled side tilt (possibly side smash as well but not sure). His up throw is also a deadly new tool that he has that Mewtwo has to really watch out for. I'd say it's possibly 60:40 instead or perhaps 55:45 in Mewtwo's favor if you're pessimistic. The rest of your points you make are true though.

Speaking of down smash, I love this move. There's not a ton of risk of throwing it out, and it's surprisingly powerful too for catching opponents at bad times. I think it's better than side smash, although that also has its uses for pivots and hitting opponents at a further distance. It's become my most used smash and I've been more careful about throwing out stray up smashes.

 

[420quickscoper]

Only pain of M2 vs Kirby is really that he is a pain to grab due to his short stature.

We don't really need grab so much, Kirby can't do much about our spacing.

There is one factor that you're forgetting that makes the match up harder, and that's his crouch. His crouch can dodge almost anything we throw out on the ground except for down smash, down tilt, and low angled side tilt (possibly side smash as well but not sure). His up throw is also a deadly new tool that he has that Mewtwo has to really watch out for. I'd say it's possibly 60:40 instead or perhaps 55:45 in Mewtwo's favor if you're pessimistic. The rest of your points you make are true though.

Speaking of down smash, I love this move. There's not a ton of risk of throwing it out, and it's surprisingly powerful too for catching opponents at bad times. I think it's better than side smash, although that also has its uses for pivots and hitting opponents at a further distance. It's become my most used smash and I've been more careful about throwing out stray up smashes.

Side smash is pretty bad, in my opinion. It's overall my least favorite move and it's pretty low tier.

Speaking of moveset tier, how would you make his moveset into a tier list, lightning?

 

[MewSquared]

Oh yeah, I know MewSquared is great, I'm not trying to put him down at all or his opponents. He's an excellent player for sure. But ZeRo is the most popular player so people will talk about the Jonny Westside Samus thing more no matter what. We know of MewSquared, but the mainstream competitive Smash population is heavily aware of ZeRo so that will get more press no matter how impressive the win. ESAM, Larry, Dabuz, Nairo are all in that group as well. I think when Mewtwo takes a game off of these guys, that's when he'll gain the respect he deserves from the general population.



Just curious, why do you think we beat Kirby so hard? Not disagreeing or anything, I'd just like to know the reasoning.

So your saying all I need to do is take out a world ranking player in bracket huh? Been planning that from the start.

 

[420quickscoper]

So your saying all I need to do is take out a world ranking player in bracket huh? Been planning that from the start.

Hey, MewSquared!
Since you're here, I've got a question to ask you:
Where do you think Mewtwo is after the buffs.

 

[LRodC]

We don't really need grab so much, Kirby can't do much about our spacing.

Side smash is pretty bad, in my opinion. It's overall my least favorite move and it's pretty low tier.

Speaking of moveset tier, how would you make his moveset into a tier list, lightning?

I don't think side smash is a poor move, it's just kind of there in the middle. I'd say it's about mid tier. Useful on occasion but not great.

If I had to rank moves (not ordered within tiers):

Excellent Tier: These moves are fundamental to Mewtwo's game plan and are at the top of their class.

Down Tilt
Forward Air
Shadow Ball

Great moves overall Tier: These moves are great moves that good players will use to their advantage often. Not as game defining as the excellent tier, but good Mewtwo players will incorporate these into their game plan often.

Jab 1
Up throw
Up Air
Neutral Air
Down Smash
Up Smash
Confusion

Situational but still useful Tier: These moves aren't bad, but they're not great or anything. They come in handy from time to time when you need them, but don't expect these to be metagame defining.

Side Smash
Dash attack
Back throw
Forward throw
Back Air (not sure about this)
Down Air (only because of its only real use being off stage and outclassed by other options on it. It's an excellent spike)
Teleport (mostly for teleport cancelling, otherwise it would be in the RU tier)
Up Tilt
Disable

Rarely useful tier: These moves are usually outclassed by a better option. While not entirely poor, you're probably better off using something else instead.

Side tilt
Down throw
Jab 2

This was actually kind of tough since I like to use all of Mewtwo's moves. If you need clarification on why I listed things where they were or want to debate on a placement, feel free to chime in.

So your saying all I need to do is take out a world ranking player in bracket huh? Been planning that from the start.

Hey MewSquared, excellent job on the placing and I admire your dedication to the character even pre-patch when everyone gave up on Mewtwo. I always watch your matches to improve my game. If you put the work in, beating a player like that could be an attainable goal down the line. Let's see what happens.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I don't think side smash is a poor move, it's just kind of there in the middle. I'd say it's about mid tier. Useful on occasion but not great.

If I had to rank moves (not ordered within tiers):

Excellent Tier: These moves are fundamental to Mewtwo's game plan and are at the top of their class.

Down Tilt
Forward Air
Shadow Ball

Great moves overall Tier: These moves are great moves that good players will use to their advantage often. Not as game defining as the excellent tier, but good Mewtwo players will incorporate these into their game plan often.

Jab 1
Up Air
Neutral Air
Down Smash
Up Smash
Confusion

Situational but still useful Tier: These moves aren't bad, but they're not great or anything. They come in handy from time to time when you need them, but don't expect these to be metagame defining.

Side Smash
Dash attack
Back Air (not sure about this)
Down Air (only because of its only real use being off stage and outclassed by other options on it. It's an excellent spike)
Teleport (mostly for teleport cancelling, otherwise it would be in the RU tier)
Up Tilt
Disable

Rarely useful tier: These moves are usually outclassed by a better option. While not entirely poor, you're probably better off using something else instead.

Side tilt
Jab 2

This was actually kind of tough since I like to use all of Mewtwo's moves. If you need clarification on why I listed things where they were or want to debate on a placement, feel free to chime in.



Hey MewSquared, excellent job on the placing and I admire your dedication to the character even pre-patch when everyone gave up on Mewtwo. I always watch your matches to improve my game. If you put the work in, beating a player like that could be an attainable goal down the line. Let's see what happens.

Utilt is an amazing anti-air, and Bair is great for ledge-guarding and gimping. That's all the input I have on that though.

Great job Mew^2!

 

[MewSquared]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the support and gratitude.

Hey, MewSquared!
Since you're here, I've got a question to ask you:
Where do you think Mewtwo is after the buffs.

As to how Mewtwo stands... I don't personal think Mewtwo's buffs were "needed" in any way. Since his release I thought Mewtwo is a very solid character who can be played at the top competitive level. I think he is top of mid tier with tools to fight the top tiers. The buffs maybe made him touch the bottom of high tier, however they were super pleasant. They made some of his strengths stronger and added more offense to his already powerful air game. Plus the movement speed buffs were just an extra cool little touch that is nice to have. The biggest concern however was the changes to the tail hitboxes. The jab utilt up smash kill confirm is now a little harder to hit so that's kinda lame. Overall nothing major has changed after the buffs, I don't believe it made him any more viable than he already was, but they were pretty powerful buffs for Mewtwo's more than capable strong points. Very unexpected, but hey I will gladly work those buffs if Sakurai was nice enough to give them to me.

 

[LRodC]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the support and gratitude.

As to how Mewtwo stands... I don't personal think Mewtwo's buffs were "needed" in any way. Since his release I thought Mewtwo is a very solid character who can be played at the top competitive level. I think he is top of mid tier with tools to fight the top tiers. The buffs maybe made him touch the bottom of high tier, however they were super pleasant. They made some of his strengths stronger and added more offense to his already powerful air game. Plus the movement speed buffs were just an extra cool little buff that is nice to have. The biggest concern however was the changes to the tail hitboxes. The jab utilt up smash kill confirm is now a little harder to hit so that's kinda lame. Overall nothing major has changed after the buffs, I don't believe it made him any more viable than he already was, but they were pretty powerful buffs for Mewtwo's more than capable strong points. Very unexpected, but hey I will gladly work those buffs if Sakurai was nice enough to give them to me.

Wait, I don't understand why that would change. Jab, up tilt, and up smash were all unchanged completely from the last patch. How would it be different now?

 

[MewSquared]

Wait, I don't understand why that would change. Jab, up tilt, and up smash were all unchanged completely from the last patch. How would it be different now?

I actually should've worded it better, my bad on that. So this is actually unconfirmed, I need to do some testing, but I remember learning that Mewtwo's hitboxes on his tail was adjusted, which I believe they extended the hitbox on the base of the tail i.e. the strongest part so that it kills more reliably. Because of that the up tilt has been connecting with the base of the tail, which has a different knock back than the middle. Although it varies by character which part you have to hit, it has been very inconsistent for me recently and even when it connects it still feels a bit different. But I plan to confirm this soon I'll get back to you with my results.

 

[Yonder]

I don't think side smash is a poor move, it's just kind of there in the middle. I'd say it's about mid tier. Useful on occasion but not great.

If I had to rank moves (not ordered within tiers):

Excellent Tier: These moves are fundamental to Mewtwo's game plan and are at the top of their class.

Down Tilt
Forward Air
Shadow Ball

Great moves overall Tier: These moves are great moves that good players will use to their advantage often. Not as game defining as the excellent tier, but good Mewtwo players will incorporate these into their game plan often.

Jab 1
Up Air
Neutral Air
Down Smash
Up Smash
Confusion

Situational but still useful Tier: These moves aren't bad, but they're not great or anything. They come in handy from time to time when you need them, but don't expect these to be metagame defining.

Side Smash
Dash attack
Back Air (not sure about this)
Down Air (only because of its only real use being off stage and outclassed by other options on it. It's an excellent spike)
Teleport (mostly for teleport cancelling, otherwise it would be in the RU tier)
Up Tilt
Disable

Rarely useful tier: These moves are usually outclassed by a better option. While not entirely poor, you're probably better off using something else instead.

Side tilt
Jab 2

This was actually kind of tough since I like to use all of Mewtwo's moves. If you need clarification on why I listed things where they were or want to debate on a placement, feel free to chime in.



Hey MewSquared, excellent job on the placing and I admire your dedication to the character even pre-patch when everyone gave up on Mewtwo. I always watch your matches to improve my game. If you put the work in, beating a player like that could be an attainable goal down the line. Let's see what happens.

I personally think dash attack is quite a good move, following up on shields after a shadow ball since people tend to drop it after blocking for fear of it breaking. I use dash attack quite a bit, very handy.

Also down air is very good too, it comes out fast enough to be used on stage from a short hop, and the spike hitbox stays out for a long time.

U tilt is nice for getting jab-utilt-usmash, not much else...better than disable I think though.

Jab 2 is also kinda situational but if your opponent misses the tech after confusion, it sets up for the whole jab, I think it's cool.

Imo all of M2s moves are good except side tilt and maybe teleport due to the stupid glitch. But even that can be used on stage for the occasional juke and cancel on the ledge. So really just side tilt sucks.

And D throw.


My list:

Great:

D tilt
Shadow ball
Forward air
U throw
Jab 1
Confusion

Good:
F throw
B throw
Nair
U smash
Dash attack
D smash
Bair
Dair

Eh:
Uair (I feel like opponents air dodge this one too easily...I'm probably doing it wrong. Tips?
Jab 2
Disable
Teleport
Side tilt
D throw

 

[TailLover]

no no no here is the true tier list of moves

THE BEST MOVES:
uair
bair
dtilt
ftilt
utilt
dthrow

WHY BOTHER MOVES:
all others

okay yeah this is just a joke, but I can't really give the best input into this as I'm still new to Mewtwo and don't use him much (only because I hate using him online and I don't play offline much sadly)

Fair and dtilt are the only moves I know to be godlike though.

 

[U-Throw]

Great:

U throw

 

[Sonicninja115]

What happened to this thread?

Uthrow
Dtilt
SB
Utilt
Fair
Nair

I consider these to be god-like status. I would even Fair to be better then Shieks. (I know, sacrilege)

 

[Furret24]

What happened to this thread?

Uthrow
Dtilt
SB
Utilt
Fair
Nair

I consider these to be god-like status. I would even Fair to be better then Shieks. (I know, sacrilege)

Mewtwo's fair OP plz nerf.

 

[Aninymouse]

Surprised on the lack of discussion on Mewtwo getting 4th solo at Shockwave 62, which had 100+ entrants. That's pretty stellar...

Trust me, I noticed. Mew² was playing excellently! Also, Gibus got 1st with a combination of Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja.

It was insanely hype.

LoF|Blue also has been getting 1st and 2nd at his local tournament, losing to Keitaro in grands.

Mewtwo is making waves.

Edit: sorry, screwed up my quote.

 

[Furret24]

Trust me, I noticed. Gibus got 1st with a combination of Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja.

It was insanely hype.

LoF|Blue also has been getting 1st and 2nd at his local tournament, losing to Keitaro in grands.

Mewtwo is making waves.

Which is great to see.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Still hype for ABA at Genesis.

 

[LRodC]

Ah, forgot the throws. I'd say Up throw for "great", back and forward throw for "good", and down throw for "eh".

Also, I have to work with up tilt more as a combo tool. I usually avoid it due to the strange hitbox. And dash attack is pretty good as well. I usually use it as a quick punish, but most of the time it's not as rewarding as it could be. It's usually to tack on extra damage. But that's usually what dash attacks do anyway except for a select few like Meta Knight's.

 

[BlazGreen]

Are Mew², Gibus or Blue going to Genesis? It would be nice not to completely rely on Abadango just in case he decides to switch off of his Mewtwo at any point.

 

[Sonicninja115]

MewSquared @!Blue! Are either of you going to G3?

 

[420quickscoper]

Hey, guys, did you know that Mewtwo looks at you right after executing a down tilt or dropping shield for a extremely short split second?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

XD got me to love it so much.

the reason I use Shadow Mewtwo skin, and probably the same reason for half the people who use it.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Gonna introduce myself.

I'm Technology: Ranked player from MI. Pretty much a solo main. Was pretty hyped for when he came out but was turned away by his myriad of flaws. However, I recently saw RayNoire go toe to toe with one of our top players here at Dismantle 2 (Ksev ). He lost but this intrigued me.

I then saw another top player from my region use in bracket at another recent tournament; performing where his main was falling short.

Now my interests have been piqued. Starting using him against my training partners and my defensive and patient playstyle translate well into this character. And I love how deep he can go and how he can quickly switch between defensive and offensive styles. The genuine appreciation for the character is there as Gen1 Pokemon came out when I was like 10. Huge Pokemon fan (old school) so it would be fitting if my 2nd was a Pokemon. Going to be researching and perhaps uploading videos.

I'm a high level player so I'm sure I could play this character and perhaps add to his meta game if I enjoy him enough. Hoping to close out this chapter of finding a 2nd I really enjoy. Let's see where this goes.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Gonna introduce myself.

I'm Technology: Ranked player from MI. Pretty much a solo main. Was pretty hyped for when he came out but was turned away by his myriad of flaws. However, I recently saw RayNoire go toe to toe with one of our top players here at Dismantle 2 (Ksev ). He lost but this intrigued me.

I then saw another top player from my region use in bracket at another recent tournament; performing where his main was falling short.

Now my interests have been piqued. Starting using him against my training partners and my defensive and patient playstyle translate well into this character. And I love how deep he can go and how he can quickly switch between defensive and offensive styles. The genuine appreciation for the character is there as Gen1 Pokemon came out when I was like 10. Huge Pokemon fan (old school) so it would be fitting if my 2nd was a Pokemon. Going to be researching and perhaps uploading videos.

I'm a high level player so I'm sure I could play this character and perhaps add to his meta game if I enjoy him enough. Hoping to close out this chapter of finding a 2nd I really enjoy. Let's see where this goes.

Best of luck!

 

[Deleted member]

I just wanna say killing somebody off the top with Mewtwo's up air is so satisfying, Thank you, Daddy Sakurai <3

 

[Aninymouse]

the reason I use Shadow Mewtwo skin, and probably the same reason for half the people who use it.

XD:Gale of Darkness was a pretty fun game. Way less monotonous than Colosseum...

Gonna introduce myself.

I'm Technology: Ranked player from MI. Pretty much a solo main. Was pretty hyped for when he came out but was turned away by his myriad of flaws. However, I recently saw RayNoire go toe to toe with one of our top players here at Dismantle 2 (Ksev ). He lost but this intrigued me.

I then saw another top player from my region use in bracket at another recent tournament; performing where his main was falling short.

Now my interests have been piqued. Starting using him against my training partners and my defensive and patient playstyle translate well into this character. And I love how deep he can go and how he can quickly switch between defensive and offensive styles. The genuine appreciation for the character is there as Gen1 Pokemon came out when I was like 10. Huge Pokemon fan (old school) so it would be fitting if my 2nd was a Pokemon. Going to be researching and perhaps uploading videos.

I'm a high level player so I'm sure I could play this character and perhaps add to his meta game if I enjoy him enough. Hoping to close out this chapter of finding a 2nd I really enjoy. Let's see where this goes.

Welcome, brother! Meta Knight's pretty cool in my book, so the more, the merrier!

Our forum's fairly active recently, so feel free to have a look around and learn all you can! Personally, I find Sonicninja115 's YouTube channel to be a great visual resource for how to construct various combos and ideas together. I'll edit in the link in a second. Edit: http://youtube.com/channel/UCXoY5d08dVI7DXFrFWeOZ3g

I know basically nothing about MI's Smash 4 scene, other than it is underrated. Who streams your tournaments? Anyone? Is there a YouTube channel I could check out to keep up with you guys? I'm already subscribed to a bunch of local scenes.

 

[Deleted member]

Brown Mewtwo is actually my favorite Mewtwo alt. Probably an unpopular opinion, it just looks nice on him.

Also this head icon is hilarious to me and I don't know why.

 

[Sonicninja115]

XD:Gale of Darkness was a pretty fun game. Way less monotonous than Colosseum...


Welcome, brother! Meta Knight's pretty cool in my book, so the more, the merrier!

Our forum's fairly active recently, so feel free to have a look around and learn all you can! Personally, I find Sonicninja115 's YouTube channel to be a great visual resource for how to construct various combos and ideas together. I'll edit in the link in a second. Edit: http://youtube.com/channel/UCXoY5d08dVI7DXFrFWeOZ3g

I know basically nothing about MI's Smash 4 scene, other than it is underrated. Who streams your tournaments? Anyone? Is there a YouTube channel I could check out to keep up with you guys? I'm already subscribed to a bunch of local scenes.

He played at Dismantle 2, and sadly fought MVD I believe. E2c has it on it's youtube.

I am 80% sure Gooshigaming is MI.

 

[Aninymouse]

Brown Mewtwo is actually my favorite Mewtwo alt. Probably an unpopular opinion, it just looks nice on him.

Also this head icon is hilarious to me and I don't know why.

There aren't any Mewtwo colors I dislike. I'd say you're right about it being rare that Brown is someone's top pick, though.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

I kind of want to use the green skin to go with all of my other choices...
The reason I user Shadow Mewtwo is XD, and also he's easier to keep track of on screen