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[Igzex]

The loss of wavedashing and double jump canceling also harms Mewtwo, as those aided its combo game and approach ability in Melee.

...This isn't Melee. This game is not using Melee's Physics so of course nobody could wave dash or DJC including Mewtwo. Why is the writer complaining about this. Does he think Mewtwo should exclusively have the ability to wavedash and DJC in this game in a future patch? Oh he must considering how many times the nerf and buff list lists the fact he can't use melee physics.

Its grab and throw game has been significantly toned down from one of the best to one the worst in the game

What?! Has this guy ever like, seen Pac-Man or Samus?

More specifically, two specials that were previously viewed as useless, Confusion and Disable, were buffed in speed, usage, and the capability to chain into combos. Confusion in particular is now able to transfer projectiles to Mewtwo's ownership, improving his offense, defensive play against projectiles, and assisting in mindgames. However, they are situational and require Mewtwo to successfully read the opponent.

Oh no I have to actually throw these moves out when I'm confident they will hit like an honest fighting game attack. Why couldn't they be more like Brawl Meta Knight's tornado.

On top of Mewtwo's high-risk, low-reward nature, Mewtwo has no customs, like the other DLC fighters. However, they do not have as much of an issue with this as Mewtwo does: Lucas and Roy have powerful specials which have more utility, speed, reach, power, or comboing ability than Mewtwo's, while Ryu has input commands which boost the utility of his. Meanwhile, Mewtwo has some of the worst specials in all of Smash 4 with no alternatives or ways to improve them whatsoever, leaving much to be desired.

Worst special moves in the game?! What?! The writer is really hard pressed to be as pessimistic as possible isn't he? Like, Really?! Man Mewtwo's really strong kill projectile, fastest teleport and overall best teleport in the game hampered only by the physics of the game itself, and the special moves you even said got buffed are so much worse than Sing, Dins Fire, Homing Missiles, PK Flash, Phantom Slash, and Straight Lunge.

As a result of its significant flaws from Melee being worsened, Mewtwo has a weak tournament presence (such as being completely absent from EVO 2015), with little to no dedicated mains, most of which play him as a secondary or counterpick, despite the large amount of hype and popularity surrounding the character's return.

It's like people simply wanted to play as Mewtwo for fun because they like the character or something I dunno.

Aren't we fortunate that the guy who wrote this completely subjective and constructive mewtwo article for us appears to be not as good at super smash bros as he'd be pleased to believe and also even more cynical than the vocal minority of melee fans that a vocal minority of casual players complain about?

 

[Browny]

I edited that page a bunch, took out all the blatantly false info.

Lets see if the admins there keep it or revert back to that horrid excuse of an article because they died to roys fsmash at low %.

The part about his specials was so bad, I had to remove it all. there was no saving it. The previous author must have a developmental disorder.

 

[Igzex]

Also I'm under the opinion that Mewtwo isn't really nerfed from Melee as much as she's just as under-performing as she was in Melee for a mix of some old reasons and some new reasons.

 

[meleebrawler]

I edited that page a bunch, took out all the blatantly false info.

Lets see if the admins there keep it or revert back to that horrid excuse of an article because they died to roys fsmash at low %.

The part about his specials was so bad, I had to remove it all. there was no saving it. The previous author must have a developmental disorder.

And yet you kept the part about Charizard's uthrow killing sooner despite you vehemently protesting that it doesn't?

While i do think that Mewtwo needs both fixes & buffs and also agree that he is a high-risk low-reward charatcer, this guy is really way too negative. XD

Yeah, "Nerfed from Melee to Smash 4" is absolutely wrong. I think Mewtwo is much better here than he was in melee.

...still hoping for some major buffs on september 30th.

I don't really agree that Mewtwo is a risk player (unless you think simply selecting him is a risk). While he does have some tricky-to land powerful moves, he can often get away with taking little risks and sticking to short simple combos to safely rack up damage, then using a throw or charged shadow ball for the kill when the time comes. Having good mobility coupled with a good projectile has a habit of giving the luxury of versatility.

 

[C3CC]

I edited that page a bunch, took out all the blatantly false info.

Lets see if the admins there keep it or revert back to that horrid excuse of an article because they died to roys fsmash at low %.

The part about his specials was so bad, I had to remove it all. there was no saving it. The previous author must have a developmental disorder.

Thank you so much for editing it! I still think we could change some more things and make it more positive. Why don't we write it all together? I couldn't go through registering and editing it because I'm too lazy, haha. I do think that we should join the article's Discussion, however, to protect it from being so horribly written again.

"Some of the worst throws in the game"... Is this guy even for real? Mewtwo has one of the most (if not THE most) damage-inducing throw in the game in his Forward Throw, and while his Up Throw isn't that powerful anymore, it does give him a pretty good killing tool. All in all, the article is biased and I would like to yell at the writer the following words...

Spoiler

THIS IS NOT F*CKING MELEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Igzex]

We don't need it to be more positive we need it to be more objective.

 

[---]

Yes to both of your questions: it was at the start of the Counter and it was a dash grab.

Am I the only one who gets absolutely enraged when they read Mewtwo's fighter article in Smash 4 in SmashWiki? It's so negative and biased. They make it sound like Mewtwo sucks and is some sort of waste, or if he was the worst character in the game.

Here's the link to the article: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

"Nerfed from his transition from Melee to Smash 4"? WTF do they mean? That is obviously not the case.

Seems only the summary was changed. Last time I read it it said Mewtwo was buffed overall but is still held back by crippling flaws.

You can probably go through the history and change it back, or just edit it yourself.

 

[meleebrawler]

Seems only the summary was changed. Last time I read it it said Mewtwo was buffed overall but is still held back by crippling flaws.

You can probably go through the history and change it back, or just edit it yourself.

It was interesting to learn that many Japanese players pack him as a secondary. Just goes to show that even if Mewtwo isn't great he can still do things well.

So, anyone wonder why the Japanese think he makes a good secondary? Is it because he performs better once the opponent is downloaded? Ability to turn things around without the major hangups such characters tend to have? Covering bad matchups against lower tiers?

 

[PhantomShab]

Yes to both of your questions: it was at the start of the Counter and it was a dash grab.

Am I the only one who gets absolutely enraged when they read Mewtwo's fighter article in Smash 4 in SmashWiki? It's so negative and biased. They make it sound like Mewtwo sucks and is some sort of waste, or if he was the worst character in the game.

Here's the link to the article: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

"Nerfed from his transition from Melee to Smash 4"? WTF do they mean? That is obviously not the case.

That article is trash and whoever wrote it is either biased or heavily misinformed.

 

[meleebrawler]

That article is trash and whoever wrote it is either biased or heavily misinformed.

Or someone from Reddit.

 

[Browny]

And yet you kept the part about Charizard's uthrow killing sooner despite you vehemently protesting that it doesn't?

You do know that at the top of the page you can see who changed what. Someone else added that part in after my edit, but I put it back in with that gfy proof this time.

I wanna change it more but my mission was to remove all the false information. The rest is subjective.

 

[meleebrawler]

So there's only one more week for the ballot to go. Anyone have any gut feelings?

 

[Sonicninja115]

So there's only one more week for the ballot to go. Anyone have any gut feelings?

Shovel Knight. If he was popular enough to get an amiibo then I am positive he is in the game.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I want to punch whoever wrote that. A wiki article is supposed to be objectively informative, not a dumpster for your hate ****ery.

 

[Browny]

People should feel free to edit it, I took out A LOT of bad info and they actually kept my part about the upthrow (although good luck to them changing it, as if I wont get a new IP and change it every time they make it say charizards uthrow is stronger).

Dont change too much at once though otherwise it can lead to conflicting info sometimes.

 

[pikazz]

just want to point out to misunderstood peeps:

Strongest =/= Kill Earlier. strongest is the launch power and how far the opponent will go undepended on the DI and angle. Kill Early is whats counting with everything, including DI and Angle.

Charizards Upthrow has the rawest UpThrow Power and Mewtwo Second by the facts.
(a huge) BUT is that it does not Equal "Kill Earlier". Mewtwo has that luxury of having a total 90 degrees upward throw and those moves are really hard to DI off.
why Charizard kills later is on the angle, he is has 70-80 degrees upward, meaning it send the opponent slightly angled upward! with that angle you can easy find the perfect DI spot and survive much earlier! also, the destance between his throw and Death Bound is even longer compared to Mewtwos, if charizard need to kill earlier, he need either a better angle or even more power

a small grapf showing what I am explainging. Charizard need more power to reach the deathbound in that angle. but if we put both angles to 90 degrees we can see that charizard do indeed throw harder with the same power without angle.

basically, it would be lying if we saying Charizards UpThrow ISNT the strongest. but we can say that Mewtwos Kill Earlier

td:tr version, Charizard has more power, but his angle ****s him up at killing, making Mewtwo kill faster

 

[Browny]

I am well aware of how that all works, but let me put this to you;

Ganondorf is the strongest character in smash 4 and Sheik is the weakest. This is a fact.

But does it mean literally anything in practice? Do we define 'strongest' as the most competitively viable or by what strongest actually means, which is who deals the most damage/highest knockback?

If you wont go and edit sheiks wiki page right now and put that she is the weakest character in the game, then you don't stick by your stance of being 'technically' correct.

 

[pikazz]

thats completely diffirent cause I was talking about the strengths, weaknesses and when they kill of one move thats executed exactly the same way and not 2 diffirent whole characters.
if you get to my level, please use either Falcon Punch/Warlock punch and Mario's/Luigi's Fireballs, heck even Team Fortress 2 Weapons "Rocket Launcher"/"Direct Launcher" works

no, the strenghts not into competive and meta cause the meta right now is everything about speed/IASAS/Setup and pretty much everything that involves chipping damage asap without getting hit and kill fast.

and no, the wiki are not going after the competive scene or anything. on the mewtwo page they list all his facts, his history, his diffirents between melee and smash4 and trivia. Yes, its a fact that Mewtwo had the strongest Upthrow until Charizard Upthrow got his huge Knockback growth and yes, we can all say that its a fact that mewtwos UpThrow kills more reliable due its angle.
the fine line between facts and lines arent the thin as you claim it to be

and no, I am not claiming thats facts are the only solid cause its out in the practice we can really see how good and viable they are. what I am claiming is still that saying something against the facts that has source is pretty much lying and stupid.
something I want to do with the Wiki is to add "Charizards UpThrow Is indeed stronger, but due its angle Mewtwos UpThrow still kills earlier"



but enough of this talk, I have said enough of mine and already gotten to my point twice.

since the update is tomorrow, what can we expect from smash? any buff and nerfs we want to see and what we can expect to see? any new stages expect for SMM stage? any Mii Costumes?

 

[meleebrawler]

Goddammit

"While Mewtwo has many moves that can KO, they are generally unreliable. All of its smash attacks have very little range and notable start up." -From the wiki again

Because frame 5 startup on usmash is slow apparently. And very little range?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Goddammit

"While Mewtwo has many moves that can KO, they are generally unreliable. All of its smash attacks have very little range and notable start up." -From the wiki again

Because frame 5 startup on usmash is slow apparently. And very little range?

nitpicking, but isn't it frame 9? and how many other characters have that much kill power with that low startup?

 

[meleebrawler]

nitpicking, but isn't it frame 9? and how many other characters have that much kill power with that low startup?

OK I'm not big on exact frame numbers but surely anyone can see that his usmash is clearly very fast on startup?

 

[Sonicninja115]

OK I'm not big on exact frame numbers but surely anyone can see that his usmash is clearly very fast on startup?

I think it might even be as fast as pikachus...

 

[Kabutops]

Hey all you fly Mewtwo mains, I'm getting this game soon and I haven't played it yet but I want to main Mewtwo. Is he as cool as the kids on the street say he is?

He's definitely cool, but I think he's very hard to use at a beginner's level. Mewtwo's large, light as a feather, and has not-so-good frame data. That combined with his awkwardness (much of which can be attributed to the inability to cancel out of his double jump with A-attacks) will drive many beginner players away. But as his unique style warms up to you, the awkwardness sort of disappears and you'll find he has some really nice things going for him. His impressive mobility makes him good at following up attacks, gives him solid punish options and, in combination with his Teleport, gives him good evasiveness. His huge attack range is very beneficial to him as it creates sort of a safety bubble around him (Mewtwo favors having space between himself & the opponent). He can zone with Shadow Ball. He has Confusion as a counter to projectile spammers and it is also very useful for mixing up his areal movements, creating confusion. His nair is godsend in terms of how effective it is at trapping opponents. D-tilt into fairs are his bread & butter (u-tilts into nairs are also good.). The removal of his double-jump cancel (you can still cancel with specials though) actually aids him with his recovery (which, imo, is among the best recoveries in the game) as well as other things. He also has some of the most powerful moves in the game. But I think what I like most of all about him is the overall flow of his style - everything is smooth and nicely paced, using Mewtwo is almost like listening to music for me. All in all, for me, Mewtwo has slowly become the most satisfying character to use. But his style must appeal to you before you can see why I & others here find him so worthwhile to master. I recommend using him sporadically at first, since it may be frustrating to try to master him right off the bat. That, to me, is also the best method for discovering which characters you like the most.

Sorry for the long reply.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

There is toad costume for the mii brawler lol. INB4 people getting offended by this.

The update just rolled up. We also got the Wii U's Duck Hunt stage for the 3DS as well for free. Finally!

YES!!! YES!!

THE PIRATE SHIP STAGE IS BACK, BABY!!

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

The real question is, did Mewtwo get any changes?

 

[MewtwoX825]

No DLC character, no changes to Mewtwo. Well I'm officially done with this ****. I'll be dusting off my Wii U when Pokken comes out...

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

no changes to Mewtwo.

But the patch hasn't been out for more than a day yet.

 

[Sonicninja115]

There is toad costume for the mii brawler lol. INB4 people getting offended by this.

The update just rolled up. We also got the Wii U's Duck Hunt stage for the 3DS as well for free. Finally!

YES!!! YES!!

THE PIRATE SHIP STAGE IS BACK, BABY!!

Why did you get a warning for that?

I guess people got offended...

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

No DLC character, no changes to Mewtwo. Well I'm officially done with this ****. I'll be dusting off my Wii U when Pokken comes out...

You do realize that they never said that they would be releasing a fighter but a stage, do you? What's with the overreaction?

Why did you get a warning for that?

I guess people got offended...

Because of double post.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well if Mewtwo got no changes we can still work for our wins.

 

[pikazz]

Mewtwo did recieve really small buff nerfs but sadly its only the global buff/nerf stuff.

those are:
Roll Back: IASA Frame Decrease from 15 -> 14
Air Dodge: IASA Frame Decrease 15 -> 14
Get up attack (lying on his back): Shield damage from Decrease 10 to 8, yet something is increased
Get up attack (lying on his belly): Shield damage from Decrease 10 to 8, yet something is increased
Slip Attack (banana peel trip): Shield damage from Decrease 10 to 8

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/144-to-160/mewtwo

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well, there is always next time.

I'm also convinced that there is always going to be a mourning period following an update. People see that their mains didn't get buffs or that the top ones didn't get nerfs. They then declare that they'll drop the game only to be back later and the world goes on as if nothing ever happened.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well, there is always next time.

I'm also convinced that there is always going to be a mourning period following an update. People see that their mains didn't get buffs or that the top ones didn't get nerfs. They then declare that they'll drop the game only to be back later and the world goes on as if nothing ever happened.

Eh I feel Mewtwo deserved some but eh. Fire Shot buff for Bowser so I can't complain.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I also wanted something for Mewtwo but some of this overreaction topics I've stumbled around are making me sick. I gain nothing by getting butt mad over this when Smash is supposed to be my escape from the harsh, stressful reality.

 

[Igzex]

Don't worry voice recasting is harder than you'd think and can take more time. We'll get that Miriam Pultro voice buff someday!

 

[ZombieVito]

No buffs at all in the new update.

The dream is dead.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

It's been awhile since I've been on SB but the latest patch is pretty cool.

New shield stun! I can spam nair more now~

 

[Superior Spider-Mew]

The only way to express this patch in a single word: ......****
That is all

 

[meleebrawler]

The only way to express this patch in a single word: ......****
That is all

Not really. Could either mean you hate the new shieldstun or the fact that Mewtwo got no real buffs.
Thing is no one was really touched besides Luigi('s dthrow) because they probably want to see how this patch will work out before making any more significant changes.

Something tells me that Mewtwo's low traction is going to be somewhat more of a blessing in disguise than before...

 

[Superior Spider-Mew]

Not really. Could either mean you hate the new shieldstun or the fact that Mewtwo got no real buffs.
Thing is no one was really touched besides Luigi('s dthrow) because they probably want to see how this patch will work out before making any more significant changes.

Something tells me that Mewtwo's low traction is going to be somewhat more of a blessing in disguise than before...

The stages and Mii outfits are cool and all but don't affect the game in the slightest. I'm saying"****" because Mewtwo has gotten no buffs after like, what? Two patches? Three patches? (I forget). Something just tells me even in the next patch, he's not going to get a buff. I would love to be wrong though.