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[Sonicninja115]

Specific characters we're good on, if anything I could recommendations for the Weekly Match Up thread. lol

Any of the top/high tiers would do well, because we should all have MU experience at the very least. Fox, Shiek or Mario?

Hey guys, I've fiddled around with M2 a bit and I'm left wondering what he has over heavyweights. I feel like they play a similar style, with similar range and frame data, but have larger reward on hit and live longer. I figured I'd ask this here rather than the Q and A thread as it warrants more of a discussion rather than a one line answer. I figured M2 might have a better disadvantaged state or combo game, but I wanted to get some insight from people who know him better. Thanks in advance.

Mewtwo has a very good combo game, whether it be linking or true combos. I think as a character he is underestimated. He should probably be at bottom of mid tier, and with a few buffs he will probably be at the top of mid tier.

His playstyle is very reminiscent of a heavy, slow and methodical, but in practice he is quite different.

He is big on gimps and killing them before they kill you.

Big on punishes, I once had a punish that led to the end of a stock, even though he started at 50% Once Mewtwo gets the advantage he is almost unstoppable, but he has to get the advantage and keep it.

 

[RayNoire]

He is big on [...] killing them before they kill you.

The unique gameplan of Mewtwo.

 

[Sonicninja115]

The unique gameplan of Mewtwo.

It is just common sense, but it is also annoying if they don't die from a U-throw at 140% because of a lack of rage. Also, if you take the first stock, the second is easier because of rage and the fact that one FC SB, a combo and a fair will put them in kill percents.

 

[meleebrawler]

It doesn't take much to run him down though. Mario does it easily with his middling run speed, and Ganondorf can catch us with the burst movement from DA or Down-B. Shadow Ball helps a lot, but you can't rely on it being charged and it's also reactable (23 frames).

The only heavies I see having a worse disadvantage than us are DK and maybe Ganondorf. Bowser's disadvantage is really bad but he's got a weirdly fast DJ to escape combos and a good fall speed.

Mario is pretty much borderline in terms of difficulty landing. He can keep up with Mewtwo in the air normally, but if he follows closely then Mewtwo is one Teleport away to safety. And he needs to be close if he wants to punish with anything harder than a dash attack or fireball.

Any of the top/high tiers would do well, because we should all have MU experience at the very least. Fox, Shiek or Mario?

Mewtwo has a very good combo game, whether it be linking or true combos. I think as a character he is underestimated. He should probably be at bottom of mid tier, and with a few buffs he will probably be at the top of mid tier.

His playstyle is very reminiscent of a heavy, slow and methodical, but in practice he is quite different.

He is big on gimps and killing them before they kill you.

Big on punishes, I once had a punish that led to the end of a stock, even though he started at 50% Once Mewtwo gets the advantage he is almost unstoppable, but he has to get the advantage and keep it.

Compared to other heavies, Mewtwo is very mobile, easily having the best airspeed while being close to Charizard in running speed. This, coupled with his light weight and the fact that most of his moves don't do that much damage individually means he relies more on evasion and deception to get his hits in instead of patiently blocking his way in while trying to overpower smaller hits that heavies can usually afford to take. His low traction is a hidden blessing here too; most bemoan it for making it more difficult to get immediate punishes on shield, but it also helps him avoid pressure more easily.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Compared to other heavies, Mewtwo is very mobile, easily having the best airspeed while being close to Charizard in running speed. This, coupled with his light weight and the fact that most of his moves don't do that much damage individually means he relies more on evasion and deception to get his hits in instead of patiently blocking his way in while trying to overpower smaller hits that heavies can usually afford to take. His low traction is a hidden blessing here too; most bemoan it for making it more difficult to get immediate punishes on shield, but it also helps him avoid pressure more easily.

Mewtwo relies on hard reads. The post.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo relies on hard reads. The post.

Y'know, for as much as Mewtwo gets out of reads and needs them to get the best results, he sure does a good job of creating situations where the opponent's options are restricted in order to make that task easier. And having a decent spammable projectile goes a long way to increasing flexibility in that regard.

And let's be honest here, there are very few characters in this game who aren't dependent on reads to some extent to get either big damage or a KO.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Y'know, for as much as Mewtwo gets out of reads and needs them to get the best results, he sure does a good job of creating situations where the opponent's options are restricted in order to make that task easier. And having a decent spammable projectile goes a long way to increasing flexibility in that regard.

And let's be honest here, there are very few characters in this game who aren't dependent on reads to some extent to get either big damage or a KO.

Even then, Mewtwo doesn't require hard reads as much as knowing what is punishable by what. If you know that mario's Fsmash can be punished with a shadowball then you have an advantage. If you know the MU then Mewtwo becomes a lot easier.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Even then, Mewtwo doesn't require hard reads as much as knowing what is punishable by what. If you know that mario's Fsmash can be punished with a shadowball then you have an advantage. If you know the MU then Mewtwo becomes a lot easier.

Master the game to master Mewtwo.

Oh yay.

 

[meleebrawler]

Master the game to master Mewtwo.

Oh yay.

Because you totally don't need to do that as Ganondorf. Or Bowser. Or Roy at higher percents.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Because you totally don't need to do that as Ganondorf. Or Bowser. Or Roy at higher percents.

I also don't die in 5 hits when playing the aforementioned 3.

 

[Metallinatus]

I also don't die in 5 hits when playing the aforementioned 3.

You just kill in 5 if you play with Ganon....
(Good luck landing more than 4 moves in a fight, though)

 

[MagiusNecros]

You just kill in 5 if you play with Ganon....
(Good luck landing more than 4 moves in a fight, though)

Very very true.

But it is what Ganon players live for.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Very very true.

But it is what Ganon players live for.

Ganon's flaws are what the mains live for yet Mewtwo's flaws are inexcusable and he's terrible? The ****?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ganon's flaws are what the mains live for yet Mewtwo's flaws are inexcusable and he's terrible? The ****?

I think the main reason Ganon's flaws are overlooked is the power Ganon has. And attacks that match animations.

Mewtwo has problems all over the place.

 

[Igzex]

Almost all custom moves unlocked...I'm really surprised the DLCs don't have custom moves. Was it really that much effort because judging by a few I've tried out they have not been really playtested much at all. Like, that's one big barrier of effort they bypassed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the main reason Ganon's flaws are overlooked is the power Ganon has. And attacks that match animations.

Mewtwo has problems all over the place.

That's an overexaggeration, Mewtwo's good at pressure and benefits greatly from solid reads, Mewtwo has the power to back himself up, hell, I've won 6 player matches with Mewtwo quite often. It reeks of fanboyism when you're only willing to look at the flaws of your main and whine about it

 

[MagiusNecros]

That's an overexaggeration, Mewtwo's good at pressure and benefits greatly from solid reads, Mewtwo has the power to back himself up, hell, I've won 6 player matches with Mewtwo quite often. It reeks of fanboyism when you're only willing to look at the flaws of your main and whine about it

Weaknesses far outweigh the strengths. There are also cases where you hope an attack lands because chasing in the air apparently gives your aerial's bad latency.

But if I ever get tired of playing Mewtwo for the sake of novelty I'll play a character that has hitboxes that actually function properly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Weaknesses far outweigh the strengths. There are also cases where you hope an attack lands because chasing in the air apparently gives your aerial's bad latency.

But if I ever get tired of playing Mewtwo for the sake of novelty I'll play a character that has hitboxes that actually function properly.

This is invalid because you said this

Very very true.

But it is what Ganon players live for.

strong as hell yet his weaknesses outweigh the strengths, Ganondorf only has beefy moves, he's slow, his attacks are slow, piss poor grab range, absolute garbage recovery...How can someone be this biased?

 

[Igzex]

Obviously because Ganondorf's hitboxes matches his animations perfectly!

 

[MagiusNecros]

strong as hell yet his weaknesses outweigh the strengths, Ganondorf only has beefy moves, he's slow, his attacks are slow, piss poor grab range, absolute garbage recovery...How can someone be this biased?

Strong attacks to supplement glaring weaknesses, slow but strong, poor grab mitigated by Flame choke a dashing command grab that functions as a tech chase and a advantageous suicide move, lack luster recovery to supplement yet again his power which through customs is also mitigated with WDK. Oh and all his attacks match his animations and I don't die from stupid **** unless I **** up royally.

If anything you just can't handle any crap thrown at Mewtwo. Any character can be great if you successfully pressure and put fear into your opponent and then read your opponent's inputs and precisely counteract them. If you can't all the good it will do you when you make that one mistake that sends you carting at the edge at 50%.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Strong attacks to supplement glaring weaknesses, slow but strong, poor grab mitigated by Flame choke a dashing command grab that functions as a tech chase and a advantageous suicide move, lack luster recovery to supplement yet again his power which through customs is also mitigated with WDK. Oh and all his attacks match his animations and I don't die from stupid **** unless I **** up royally.

If anything you just can't handle any crap thrown at Mewtwo. Any character can be great if you successfully pressure and put fear into your opponent and then read your opponent's inputs and precisely counteract them. If you can't all the good it will do you when you make that one mistake that sends you carting at the edge at 50%.

Dude, Mewtwo has strong attacks too, saying Ganon's strength justifies his weaknesses when Mewtwo's aren't is hypocritical. 'Any character can be great' Stop. Mewtwo's naturally great at this. You're reminding me of that kid who thought everyone in the game is a good rushdown character

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dude, Mewtwo has strong attacks too, saying Ganon's strength justifies his weaknesses when Mewtwo's aren't is hypocritical. 'Any character can be great' Stop. Mewtwo's naturally great at this. You're reminding me of that kid who thought everyone in the game is a good rushdown character

Well guess what not everyone is great as a rushdown character. Mewtwo for example. Since he requires thoughtful pressure to do well. Since as you said he gets off very well on solid ergo hard reads.

Mewtwo has strong attacks, it's just a matter of landing them.

If you wish to continue this pointless pissing contest you can delegate to PM's. It would help not clutter up the Social board on a debate long retreaded since Mewtwo's release.

 

[Metallinatus]

Almost all custom moves unlocked...I'm really surprised the DLCs don't have custom moves. Was it really that much effort because judging by a few I've tried out they have not been really playtested much at all. Like, that's one big barrier of effort they bypassed.

They were too busy giving Ryu literally 3 times the same amount of moves the other characters have.... because who cares about making the Nintendo characters right when you can give literally more attention to a third party character than the whole rest of the cast?

That's an overexaggeration, Mewtwo's good at pressure and benefits greatly from solid reads, Mewtwo has the power to back himself up, hell, I've won 6 player matches with Mewtwo quite often. It reeks of fanboyism when you're only willing to look at the flaws of your main and whine about it

Speaking of which, did you see how much problem Sheik has killing? How has Sakurai not fixed that yet????

Weaknesses far outweigh the strengths.

I will have to agree with the others that no other character has more weaknesses over strengths than Ganondorf....
He hits harder than everyone, but with his speed.... he would need to hit twice as hard as he does to make it up for his speed.
Melee Ganondorf had a good speed/strength balance, Sm4sh Ganondorf does not.

Oh, and even Melee Ganondorf is mid tier at best....

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

So I just posted my first replay to YouTube directly from the Wii U. Out of 5 matches against my amiibo, I won 3 tonight. I only posted the last one because it was short enough for the time limit to post on YouTube.

Besides being lucky with that first stock, I'm trying to work on not using Smash attacks too much and relying on other attacks more often. Didn't attempt grabs much because Pikabro can predict when I attempt them then punish me...

 

[meleebrawler]

So I just posted my first replay to YouTube directly from the Wii U. Out of 5 matches against my amiibo, I won 3 tonight. I only posted the last one because it was short enough for the time limit to post on YouTube.

Besides being lucky with that first stock, I'm trying to work on not using Smash attacks too much and relying on other attacks more often. Didn't attempt grabs much because Pikabro can predict when I attempt them then punish me...

Also a good idea to not attempt to grab Pikachu much in general, especially after aerials.

And to reiterate myself; despite Mewtwo having some of the trappings of a heavy he really does not play similarly to them at all.
He has mobility and you need to use that advantage to the fullest in order to win.

Think of as Mewtwo deciding to be a mixed sweeper for Smash, maxing out his speed EVs while maintaining a relative balance between both Attack stats (though leaning somewhat towards special).

His low stamina befits the general depiction of Psychic types well: good speed and high attack power but low defences.
And because you can dodge things at will in Smash like you can in the anime, Mewtwo has to learn to do that too.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For the first time, Rosalina is analyzing Mewtwo at her sub-forum. If you have anything to contribute for the Rosalina vs. Mewtwo match-up, please head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/416750/

As for the directory thread itself...

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Browny]

So I just posted my first replay to YouTube directly from the Wii U. Out of 5 matches against my amiibo, I won 3 tonight. I only posted the last one because it was short enough for the time limit to post on YouTube.

Besides being lucky with that first stock, I'm trying to work on not using Smash attacks too much and relying on other attacks more often. Didn't attempt grabs much because Pikabro can predict when I attempt them then punish me...

The fsmash hitting at 12 seconds in makes me think there is actually some mysterious hitbox in that blind spot that would normally miss every time from that range, on a dashing pikachu of all things...

 

[meleebrawler]

The fsmash hitting at 12 seconds in makes me think there is actually some mysterious hitbox in that blind spot that would normally miss every time from that range, on a dashing pikachu of all things...

It looks like it hit Pikachu's tail, actually.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Not wanting to derail the topic of the conversation or anything, but Goku just turned SSG in DBS. Unlike the movie, the transformation sequence was extremely impressive and more fitting of a god.

Also, anyone up for a battle? 3DS version as always
And just a heads up, I play with customs on and don't necessarily adhere to tourney legal stages, if you play with me expect me to occasionally choose places like Reset Bomb Forest, Suzaku Castle, Gerudo Valley, Jungle Japes, Brinstar, etc. since I like variety in my stage selection. Worry not, I'm not gonna pick crazy hazardous stages like Living Room, Flat Zone, Magicant, Balloon Fight, Wily's Castle or Dreamland (GB version).

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not wanting to derail the topic of the conversation or anything, but Goku just turned SSG in DBS. Unlike the movie, the transformation sequence was extremely impressive and more fitting of a god.

Also, anyone up for a battle? 3DS version as always
And just a heads up, I play with customs on and don't necessarily adhere to tourney legal stages, if you play with me expect me to occasionally choose places like Reset Bomb Forest, Suzaku Castle, Gerudo Valley, Jungle Japes, Brinstar, etc. since I like variety in my stage selection. Worry not, I'm not gonna pick crazy hazardous stages like Living Room, Flat Zone, Magicant, Balloon Fight, Wily's Castle or Dreamland (GB version).

You use equipment or just Custom moves?

I'll play you though. Add me.

2062 9916 2270

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

You use equipment or just Custom moves?

I'll play you though. Add me.

2062 9916 2270

No equipment, just customs.

Very well, I'll make a room.

 

[MagiusNecros]

That delayed Bomb death.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well, it happens

 

[MagiusNecros]

It's been a while since I played online with my 3DS so sorry for the poor play.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's ok, it should be expected with this delay and the distance

 

[MagiusNecros]

I dunno what it is but maybe with my router it wants to blip once or twice everyday. Can be annoying.

 

[meleebrawler]

So... where's @U-Throw?

 

[Igzex]

They were too busy giving Ryu literally 3 times the same amount of moves the other characters have.... because who cares about making the Nintendo characters right when you can give literally more attention to a third party character than the whole rest of the cast?

Street Fighter has 3 different strengths of his attacks in street fighter and Sora LTD. wanted to emulate that. Stop being a cynical silly goose

 

[MagiusNecros]

Street Fighter has 3 different strengths of his attacks in street fighter and Sora LTD. wanted to emulate that. Stop being a cynical silly goose

He also has 2 different rolls. Long and short.

They went all out with Ryu meanwhile the rest of the roster...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He also has 2 different rolls. Long and short.

They went all out with Ryu meanwhile the rest of the roster...

Ryu's supposed to play like he does in Street Fighter, otherwise he woud have been the same as the rest of the cast. Also, 2 rolls? First time I hear of that