[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[TheCJBrine]

I still find it funny and hypocritical that some people on here downplay and bash Dragon Quest, the grandfather of JRPGs, by calling it niche, but at the same time want Geno even though he is one of the most niche and obscure characters in history to ever exist, with no real legacy of his own. I feel like there's some disconnection, here.

Geno at least seems to have resonated with a lot of people, becoming popular and having a sort-of legacy with his fans, leading to his inclusion in Smash at least in some form, and Sakurai seems to like him as well.

He's also a Mario character.

Now, DQ certainly isn't niche, but it seems to be in the West...? Idk, I don't think it matters though, because it's popular anyway, especially in Japan.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Mario game and obscure are kind of contradictory...

Look. If you guys want to still keep believing Geno has a chance for Ultimate, then go ahead. I won't stop you. At this point though, I think the only way he'll ever be playable is if Nintendo buys him from Square Enix.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I still find it funny and hypocritical that some people on here downplay and bash Dragon Quest, the grandfather of JRPGs, by calling it niche, but at the same time want Geno even though he is one of the most niche and obscure characters in history to ever exist, with no real legacy of his own. I feel like there's some disconnection, here.

Super Mario RPG received positive reviews and appeared on reader-selected "best game of all time" lists, such as 26th on GameFAQs[26] and 30th at IGN.[27] Japanese audiences received Super Mario RPG well with 1.47 million copies sold, making it the third highest-selling game in Japan in 1996.[28] Its sales in the United States surpassed Nintendo's expectations. For the game's release in the middle of May 1996, the company shipped 300,000 units to retailers; Nintendo estimated sell-through of more than 200,000 units within one month on shelves. A company representative said that "the title is on track to easily exceed our 500,000 target, and it may easily become a one million seller by the end of this calendar year".[29] By August 24, it had been the United States' most-rented game for 14 weeks straight.[30]

The SNES Mini sold 368,913 copies within its first four days on sale in Japan.[32] By the end of October 2017, it had sold more than 2 million units worldwide.[33] By its fiscal year 2017 report, ending March 31, 2018, the SNES Classic had sold more than 5 million units.[34] Combined sales of the NES and SNES Classic editions by September 30, 2018 exceeded 10 million units.[35]

This doesn't even qualify virtual console sales. This character has seen a lot of play time now through all these venues. For such a small game with apparently no legacy that is so niche that no one would ever take it seriously as this community tends to do with Super Mario RPG/Geno.

This game/character has seen a lot of sales and action over it's 22 year history. Not to mention that it's literally the predecessor to BOTH of Nintendo's current mainline Mario RPGS.

It's not niche and it does have a legacy.

 

[Luigi The President]

Look. If you guys want to still keep believing Geno has a chance for Ultimate, then go ahead. I won't stop you. At this point though, I think the only way he'll ever be playable is if Nintendo buys him from Square Enix.

Sure believe what you want but can you stop putting him down as Obscure And Niche, literally exaggerating and saying he's one of the most obscure and niche in history with no legacy when that's outright false?

You're moving the goalposts, stop it.

 

[Deleted member]

Look. If you guys want to still keep believing Geno has a chance for Ultimate, then go ahead. I won't stop you. At this point though, I think the only way he'll ever be playable is if Nintendo buys him from Square Enix.

Yeah I can't say I'm a believer lol, mainly due to SE. But I'm just bringing that up.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

He's also a Mario character.

Now, DQ certainly isn't niche, but it seems to be in the West...? Idk, I don't think it matters though, because it's popular anyway, especially in Japan.

Yes. He's a Mario character... that has no presence in the series anymore. And so what if Dragon is niche outside of Japan? Who said that every character pick needs to pander to the West? Once again, I don't believe Erdrick is guaranteed, but I'm just preparing for the possibility.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Funnily enough, Nintendo's "Team Mallow or Team Geno" tweet earlier this year and the Nintendo-sposored HQ question/survey thing featuring a question where the correct answer is SMRPG (giving you Geno's name after selecting the answer) seems to at least make SMRPG and the characters themselves some niche/obscure stuffs they don't care about.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yes. He's a Mario character... that has no presence in the series anymore. And so what if Dragon is niche outside of Japan? Who said that every character pick should pander to the West? Once again, I don't believe Erdrick is guaranteed, but I'm just preparing for the possibility.

He's a Mario character who has a legacy and a history that lasts even today.
Didn't know it was about not having a "series presence".

 

[StormC]

SMRPG as a game is not niche, no. But Geno is pretty low on the pantheon. He's about on the same level as characters like... oh, I dunno, Lucca from Chrono Trigger. His legacy is mostly off the back of his diehard fans.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yes. He's a Mario character... that has no presence in the series anymore. And so what if Dragon is niche outside of Japan? Who said that every character pick should pander to the West? Once again, I don't believe Erdrick is guaranteed, but I'm just preparing for the possibility.

So if there was a large fanbase for other Mario RPG characters, asking for them in Smash, would you put them down?

Like Vivian, Goombario, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

SMRPG as a game is not niche, no. But Geno is pretty low on the pantheon. He's about on the same level as characters like... oh, I dunno, Lucca from Chrono Trigger. His legacy is mostly off the back of his diehard fans.

I agree, He has his presence for sure even outside of the Smash community, but it's not exactly large.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Funnily enough, Nintendo's "Team Mallow or Team Geno" tweet earlier this year and the Nintendo-sposored HQ question/survey thing featuring a question where the correct answer is SMRPG (giving you Geno's name after selecting the answer) seems to at least make SMRPG and the characters themselves some niche/obscure stuffs they don't care about.

That tweet was made by Nintendo of America which is only one regional branch of the company and not the main one. Now, if Nintendo of Japan made that tweet, then it would certainly be more significant. And I don't know why people keep acting like Geno himself represents the entirety of SMRPG. He wasn't even the main character.

So if there was a large fanbase for other Mario RPG characters, asking for them in Smash, would you put them down?

Like Vivian, Goombario, etc.

Of course not. The difference is, those characters are owned by Nintendo. And I'm not trying to put other characters like Geno down. I'm just being realistic, here. People really overestimate his chances way too much. I simply don't see Square Enix playing ball and putting him in over their other characters.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Please delete this post.

 

[Luigi The President]

Of course not. And I'm not trying to put other characters like Geno down. I'm just being realistic, here. People really overestimate his chances way too much.

Geno even though he is one of the most niche and obscure characters in history to ever exist, with no real legacy of his own.

Oh but you aren't putting him down huh?
Can ya just not excuse this next time

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So obscure and niche he got a Mii costume and a namedrop multiple times due to how fan requested he is and he also stars in one of the SNES' best selling games which is still listed as a classic today and seen in high regard similar to Chrono Trigger and recently got a re-release on the SNES classic and his legacy has lasted over 20 years which is why we still talk about him every day and Squenix himself knows of his fan requests which is why he's on any kind of leak list in the first place

But he's so ****ing niche and obscure right

Enough of this. Enough.

Slay him, sis.

 

[Luigi The President]

Slay him, sis.

Thanks Strife :"]

To clarify; I'm not advocating for disrespect here, but when someone calls a character I love obscure and with no history or legacy hopefully you guys can get why I'm upset.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

When I say niche and obscure, I'm referring to the general gaming audience, the people who play games like Minecraft and Fortnite. Most of them don't know who Geno is. And with Nintendo choosing Joker as their first paid DLC character, I think they're trying to reach a different audience outside of the hardcore Smash community. Most of us are already planning on buying the Fighter Pass anyways.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That tweet was made by Nintendo of America which is only one regional branch of the company and not the main one. Now, if Nintendo of Japan made that tweet, then it would certainly be more significant. And I don't know why people keep acting like Geno himself represents the entirety of SMRPG. He wasn't even the main character.

He's at least one of the main characters, with him especially associated with the story (well, I haven't played it yet, but it seems he's the one who knows what they're all supposed to do, and has a mission).

Of course not. And I'm not trying to put other characters like Geno down. I'm just being realistic, here. People really overestimate his chances way too much.

And I'm sorry, it just seems like you generalize the Geno fanbase based on a minority, as I remember some posts where you seemed to view him on a similar level as your views on Incineroar...

I mean, I don't care if you dislike the character, you just seemed to drag the fans into it by calling 'em out...

 

[SuperSceptile15]

He's at least one of the main characters, with him especially associated with the story (well, I haven't played it yet, but it seems he's the one who knows what they're all supposed to do, and has a mission).



And I'm sorry, it just seems like you generalize the Geno fanbase based on a minority, as I remember some posts where you seemed to view him on a similar level as your views on Incineroar...

I mean, I don't care if you dislike the character, you just seemed to drag the fans into it by calling 'em out...

Alright. I'm sorry. I'll stop. I was just trying to be more realistic about which kinds of characters would be chosen. I honestly don't know what to expect anymore. If Geno does somehow get in, great! I wouldn't be disappointed about his potential inclusion at all.

 

[SSGuy]

So if there was a large fanbase for other Mario RPG characters, asking for them in Smash, would you put them down?

Like Vivian, Goombario, etc.

I was going to add in the fact that for a one off character, he sure has a lot of fans and who pour a ton of energy into fan art, mods and what not. You can't really say that for characters like Mouser or Tatanga.

 

[Luigi The President]

Alright. I'm sorry. I'll stop. I was just trying to be more realistic about which kinds of characters would be chosen. I honestly don't know what to expect anymore. If Geno does somehow get in, great! I wouldn't be disappointed about his potential inclusion at all.

Sorry for snapping at you dude. I hope you can get why; it seemed you were really disrespecting a favorite of mine.
I get keeping your expectations low just consider this next time.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright. I'm sorry. I'll stop. I was just trying to be more realistic about which kinds of characters would be chosen. I honestly don't know what to predict anymore.

I do agree with your point to some extent, but I feel you're also downplaying the popularity of SMRPG.

 

[StormC]

He's at least one of the main characters, with him especially associated with the story (well, I haven't played it yet, but it seems he's the one who knows what they're all supposed to do, and has a mission).

Geno is kind of an exposition fairy. He appears about a third of the way into the game and is crucial to the plot, while spending several cutscenes informing Mario and the player about the context of the story... but as a character doesn't have much to engage with, narrative-wise. Mallow, Peach, and Bowser all have more personal storylines while Geno has by far the least dialogue of any of the party members (well... except Mario). He's not unimportant to the story or game by any means, but I definitely would say he is the least notable of the five party members when you look at it as a whole.

That said, he does leave an impression with fans for quite a few reasons, probably one of which being the ending, which focuses largely on his farewell.

I love SMRPG more than 90% of video games I've ever played. I've been both Mallow and Geno for Halloween as a kid. But I think when one actually plays the game, Geno would not be seen as central to it as some fans would like to think (not necessarily anybody in this thread).

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I do agree with your point to some extent, but I feel you're also downplaying the popularity of SMRPG.

I wasn't downplaying SMRPG's popularity. I was just saying that one character doesn't represent an entire game. I'll stop now.

 

[Tetrin]

When I say niche and obscure, I'm referring to the general gaming audience, the people who play games like Minecraft and Fortnite. Most of them don't know who Geno is. And with Nintendo choosing Joker as their first paid DLC character, I think they're trying to reach a different audience outside of the hardcore Smash community. Most of us are already planning on buying the Fighter Pass anyways.

I think niche and obscure wouldn't really apply to those people, but rather, casual gamers who just know a little bit about mostly mainstream things.

And in defense of Geno, he doesn't exactly have to be the main character. Piranha Plant has never once been the main character of any game, and he's been included. While you could argue that Piranha Plant is less arcane, fanservice should also be taken into account. Before his inclusion, he was almost never considered. In another light, Ridley would likely remain a boss today if so many people hadn't advocated for him being playable, and Dixie or Funky would've probably gotten in over King K. Rool if it wasn't for his massive fanbase. Geno represents one of 5 main characters in the game, and his personality just happened to resonate with a large audience. It may be a game somewhat lost in time, no less a character lost in time, but this mysterious figure has been shoved down even casuals' throats, and so I feel he has a fighting chance and definitely deserves to be in the game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Geno is kind of an exposition fairy. He appears about a third of the way into the game and is crucial to the plot, while spending several cutscenes informing Mario and the player about the context of the story... but as a character doesn't have much to engage with, narrative-wise. Mallow, Peach, and Bowser all have more personal storylines while Geno has by far the least dialogue of any of the party members (well... except Mario). He's not unimportant to the story or game by any means, but I definitely would say he is the least notable of the five party members when you look at it as a whole.

That said, he does leave an impression with fans for quite a few reasons, probably one of which being the ending, which focuses largely on his farewell.

I love SMRPG more than 90% of video games I've ever played. I've been both Mallow and Geno for Halloween as a kid. But I think when one actually plays the game, Geno would not be seen as central to it as some fans would like to think (not necessarily anybody in this thread).

I can see Geno may not be very central to the plot despite his importance with what's going on as a whole; I guess, in my opinion, he's cool because of his design, what he does say, his cool gear/weapons, and he's basically the Mario Universe's version of an angel (at least that's how I see it).

I don't even know all his lines (I'm trying to not spoil the whole game for me, parts of it already are spoiled including Smithy's fight ), but he sounds cool and funny; "YO SMITHY."

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I wasn't downplaying SMRPG's popularity. I was just saying that one character doesn't represent an entire game. I'll stop now.

You can argue that when it comes to the individual games in a franchise as wide and varied as mario, one identifies games based on what sets them apart. For mario galaxy we think of rosalina and the comet observatory, for paper mario we think of goombario and the cavalcade of side characters, same with SMRPG. for mario odyssey it's cappy and the broodals. I'll agree that no one character represents a game as a whole, but it seems foolish to downplay their importance nonetheless.

"YO SMITHY."

Spoiler

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Geno is to Super Mario RPG what Lucina is to Fire Emblem: Awakening imo.

 

[owjies]

When I say niche and obscure, I'm referring to the general gaming audience, the people who play games like Minecraft and Fortnite. Most of them don't know who Geno is. And with Nintendo choosing Joker as their first paid DLC character, I think they're trying to reach a different audience outside of the hardcore Smash community. Most of us are already planning on buying the Fighter Pass anyways.

When considering Mario RPG and Geno's appeal, I think the disconnect is more from a generational perspective rather than Smash / non-Smash or hardcore / casual. Within the general audience of gamers 25 and older, I'd bet you would find a decent amount of people that recognize Mario RPG or its unique characters. I'm not saying that they're actively supporting Geno for Smash, but I take Sakurai at his word when he says, "When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests." That basically tells me that if you group older video game characters together Geno is quite popular.

I don't necessarily disagree with Geno being a niche character, but I don't think that equates to "No legacy." He clearly has enough legacy to have been considered as a playable fighter in Brawl and, as has been mentioned, generate re-releases, costumes, cameos, spirits, etc.

 

[Nekoo]

Geno is to Super Mario RPG what Lucina is to Fire Emblem: Awakening imo.

The shoehorned Characters in the series and it's downfall?

 

[MajoraMan28]

I'm not 100% on Erdrick myself, but yes. While it's true there are less people openly saying Erdrick than there were openly saying anti-Grinch, it's still not a good comparison. Primarily because known leakers were the ones saying not to trust Grinch in the first place. That was what I was trying to get at... Not that it confirms Erdrick in itself or anything, I was trying to say if we're playing the 'trust no-one' game by using the Grinch leak, it's probably not the best argument. There are better ways.

May I ask why you're not 100% on Erdrick?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Geez you guys jumped on SuperSceptile15 like vultures. This is a General Square Enix thread, not the Geno thread. If people want to voice their negative opinions about Geno, they have that right.

Need I remind you that most of you spent the last TWO DAYS bashing on Erdrick and Dragon Quest as a whole? And Fatmanonice , representative of the Geno fanbase, DEFENDED THIS by saying that you can bash on a character while respecting their fanbase:

No, I'm joking, but my point is that you can outright slam characters and not think bad of the people supporting them. This is a general thread which is why I've said what I've said here. I'm blunt, but I understand etiquette. It's not like I'm kicking the door open of the Erdrick support thread and being like "whaddup ****ers? Who's ready for Uncle Fatman's hot, fresh, and just for you® opinions?" or like personally attacking people. Because this is a reoccurring theme, mods can jump in if they think I'm out of line and need to STFU for the safety and well-being of the Smash/Dragon Quest communities.

I don't see where SuperSceptile personally insulted Geno's fanbase. You could maybe read into that? But that surely wasn't his intention. It's a blatant double standard. I get that most of you guys like Geno, but people should be allowed to disagree.

And before you say "but tehponycorn, he was bashing on Geno and his argument was stupid!" if his argument was stupid, just don't respond to it. Or ask him to provide evidence, or provide evidence of your own against his point like Tree Gelbman did and leave it at that. There's no need to borderline brigade the dude and force him to back off. That's how discussion is stifled, and that's the last thing that should be occurring on this thread.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The shoehorned Characters in the series and it's downfall?

Shush. You talk smack about my homegirl I'll cut you...

On top of your head. I'll give you a bad haircut, before they perceive this as a serious threat and warn me for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Geez you guys jumped on SuperSceptile15 like vultures. This is a General Square Enix thread, not the Geno thread. If people want to voice their negative opinions about Geno, they have that right.

Need I remind you that most of you spent the last TWO DAYS bashing on Erdrick and Dragon Quest as a whole? And Fatmanonice , representative of the Geno fanbase, DEFENDED THIS by saying that you can bash on a character while respecting their fanbase:

He got a good amount of likes for this post. I don't see where SuperSceptile personally insulted Geno's fanbase. You could maybe read into that? But that surely wasn't his intention.

It's a blatant double standard. I get that most of you guys like Geno, but people should be allowed to disagree.

And before you say "but tehponycorn, he was bashing on Geno and his argument was stupid!" if his argument was stupid, just don't respond to it. Or ask him to provide evidence, or provide evidence of your own against his point like Tree Gelbman did and leave it at that. There's no need to borderline brigade the dude and force him to back off. That's how discussion is stifled, and that's the last thing that should be occurring on this thread.

I feel kinda bad now... I was trying to be chill about it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just would give advice to everyone here. If you're dissatisfied with something or have strong feelings about something always try to remember use evidence, not feelings and in the case of me with Dragon Quest. I've just been trying to remember to keep the mentality that it does deserve to be in Smash Bros despite my issues with it and what it may or may not bring to Smash Bros.

 

[Nekoo]

I just would give advice to everyone here. If you're dissatisfied with something or have strong feelings about something always try to remember use evidence, not feelings and in the case of me with Dragon Quest. I've just been trying to remember to keep the mentality that it does deserve to be in Smash Bros despite my issues with it and what it may or may not bring to Smash Bros.

That's why you and Fatmanonice are people I greatly Respect.
Most of yours argument are nice and actually can be valids because it's more licencing stuff and other technicalities than stoping at the Composer and discarding everything else.

Or just stoping at "America not know = bad"

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Geez you guys jumped on SuperSceptile15 like vultures. This is a General Square Enix thread, not the Geno thread. If people want to voice their negative opinions about Geno, they have that right.

Need I remind you that most of you spent the last TWO DAYS bashing on Erdrick and Dragon Quest as a whole? And Fatmanonice , representative of the Geno fanbase, DEFENDED THIS by saying that you can bash on a character while respecting their fanbase:


I don't see where SuperSceptile personally insulted Geno's fanbase. You could maybe read into that? But that surely wasn't his intention. It's a blatant double standard. I get that most of you guys like Geno, but people should be allowed to disagree.

And before you say "but tehponycorn, he was bashing on Geno and his argument was stupid!" if his argument was stupid, just don't respond to it. Or ask him to provide evidence, or provide evidence of your own against his point like Tree Gelbman did and leave it at that. There's no need to borderline brigade the dude and force him to back off. That's how discussion is stifled, and that's the last thing that should be occurring on this thread.

pretty sure it was just Luigi The President who was doing that. I'm not gonna tell someone they can't have their opinion even if they downright hate geno, and aren't shy about stating it. But people are gonna give their opinion right back.
Weaponized opinions.

 

[cmbsfm]

Honestly alot of this blind faith in Erdrick reads just like that blind faith.

It's based around ''OH WOW THIS LEAK GOT SOMETHING RIGHT THAT WAS TOTALLLY KNOWN BECAUSE HITAGI HAD A BIG MOUTH AND TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR MONTHS."

And totally ignores how the same leak went in to detail about OTHER dlc characters as well.

I swear it's just like people are so set on getting the Square thing over with they throw themselves at whatever seems likely or realistic to them.

I thought the Edrick leak only talked about Joker and Erdrick? The stuff about Heihachi and Rayman was from a piggybacker.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I thought the Edrick leak only talked about Joker and Erdrick? The stuff about Heihachi and Rayman was from a piggybacker.

Is that true? My first hearing about it.

Still the fact it called the Granblue Fighting Game isn't even that much of a shocking thing considering it was the worst kept secret in the world.

 

[REZERO]

This thread is pretty lax luckily, people are just getting riled up over characters. There were a few times where people were throwing logical fallacies, especially false dichotomy.