[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Kotor]

To me, this whole SquareEnix trying to promote Dragon Quest in the West reminds me of Vince McMahon's many attempts to get Roman Reigns over with the people. Stubbornly refusing to give up on his guy, and move on to someone else. Erdrick in Smash would be the latest attempt of this crusade.

 

[-Coco-]

Not entirely giving up on Geno, my friend. Just trying to be realistic. DQ is a very viable pick, and I just want to understand why his fans like him so much, like I’m sure they want to know why we like Geno





He’s starting to sound a lot like Robin. Anything to make him substantially stand out? “Unique characters” like Reggie said?

I think multiple weapons would be interesting. Like Firion in FF? But is weapons the heart of DQ? Erdrick is probably gonna represent the entirety of the franchise.

Remember that one feature in VIII? That made you go super saiyan? Was that Temper? Struggle? Tension!!! I’d like to see THAT.

Multiple weapons is definitely a series staple. Also check my level up comment. Also tension is a series staple as well so it's very possible for it to be added.

 

[Deleted member]

Not entirely giving up on Geno, my friend. Just trying to be realistic. DQ is a very viable pick, and I just want to understand why his fans like him so much, like I’m sure they want to know why we like Geno





He’s starting to sound a lot like Robin. Anything to make him substantially stand out? “Unique characters” like Reggie said?

I think multiple weapons would be interesting. Like Firion in FF? But is weapons the heart of DQ? Erdrick is probably gonna represent the entirety of the franchise.

Remember that one feature in VIII? That made you go super saiyan? Was that Temper? Struggle? Tension!!! I’d like to see THAT.

Now that you've put the idea in my head I want Firion lol
but yeah, I do get what you're saying. There's been a few ideas thrown around like the level up mechanic, and in the Erdrick thread someone proposed calling in other party members for attacks.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Multiple weapons is definitely a series staple. Also check my level up comment. Also tension is a series staple as well so it's very possible for it to be added.

Multiple weapons for the protagonist? Or just around the party. I think Tension would be really dope, but now that I think about it, it sounds like Limit Break...

Now that you've put the idea in my head I want Firion lol
but yeah, I do get what you're saying. There's been a few ideas thrown around like the level up mechanic, and in the Erdrick thread someone proposed calling in other party members for attacks.

I think the level up mechanic would be cool. I see he has some kind of legendary armor, maybe him leveling up would get him that armor?

There’s probably too many party members to choose from.

 

[-Coco-]

Multiple weapons for the protagonist? Or just around the party. I think Tension would be really dope, but now that I think about it, it sounds like Limit Break...

Both. Each member can use different weapons but so can the hero. As an example in the latest DQ game there protagonist can use a Great Sword, one handed swords(dual wield) , Sword and Shield and he had his own magic too.

I think the level up mechanic would be cool. I see he has some kind of legendary armor, maybe him leveling up would get him that armor?

There’s probably too many party members to choose from.

Yeah that's what I was thinking with his signature armor.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So quick question and your probably stated this but do you dislike DQ or just the reasons it would be in smash bros I'm just curious since this is a discussion thread and all

Pretty much all of the above. Sugiyama (virtually irredeemable) and Toriyama (gigantic egomaniac) suck in their own right. As noted, the situation makes it a blatant shill pick that most people don't want or don't care about, basically making it Square's fourth attempt in 32 years to get Westerners to care enough about the series to satisfy them. Erdrick literally has no personality or genuinely unique characteristics that aren't already present in Smash and he's probably going to be a composite character to fill the gaping void of, well, everything. There's other things but mostly it's a super anti-hype reveal that maybe Japan and a handful of everyone else will celebrate that we'll all be expected to pay for. If you play competitively, you know "well, just don't buy it" doesn't fly so most people are just going to lump it and, again, a DLC character shouldn't be a reluctant buy and it's kind of shady that this is how they designed it. It honestly should have been base if this winds up being true.

 

[MyDude213]

I think the problem with DQ that people seems to have is that...

Erdrick in. No Geno and Sora.

And as what Tree Gelbman said, it would be mainly corporate and simply feel off because it’s one of their multiple attempts to get DQ popular in the West. At least with Fire Emblem, Marth was added because he was a very popular request from Japanese fans and they were even thinking about keeping Marth japanese exclusive. But I doubt that Erdrick is actually a popular request for Smash overseas, or anyone that isn’t slime for that matter.

I understand that DQ is iconic, Uber in Japan, and has their history and I actually started to like Erdrick a bit. But it ends up coming at the cost of two other characters that actually have popularity (especially Geno) and one character that is actually liked and well known worldwide. And because of that, Erdrick comes off the wrong way as a “shill” character.

And on a seperate note, people haven’t brought up anything in relation to Erdrick’s potential moveset (unless if I look in the Erdrick thread) since that’s also important to Sakurai.

In all honesty, I feel like the Square battle is a never ending cycle and there can’t really be a true winner. If it was up to me, I would’ve tried to get ALL THREE Geno, Erdrick, and Sora since they all have valid points for inclusion.

Ya this is 100% accurate that's really my biggest issue with Erdrick not that I think DQ doesn't deserve Smash Rep it's that I just don't care about the character anywhere near enough to pretend like I'd be excited to see him in. Nothing against the character but DQ was also just never a franchise I really got into as a kid so I have zero attachment. If we were ever gonna get a character in the same aesthetic as Erdrick I would personally want Chrono (Yes I know Chrono isn't a DQ rep but let's be honest Chrono Trigger is pretty much a DQ game, if you've ever even seen anything from both games. It's pretty much a DQ game mixed with some Mother/Earthbound flair.) more at least I know who the **** he is. and he's just arguably more memorable and recognizable than Erdrick ( more than any DQ protag honestly you could replace any character from DQ with any game in the DQ series, and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference let's not kid ourselves here.) to most people at least in the west.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Pretty much all of the above. Sugiyama (virtually irredeemable) and Toriyama (gigantic egomaniac) suck in their own right. As noted, the situation makes it a blatant shill pick that most people don't want or don't care about, basically making it Square's fourth attempt in 32 years to get Westerners to care enough about the series to satisfy them. Erdrick literally has no personality or genuinely unique characteristics that aren't already present in Smash and he's probably going to be a composite character to fill the gaping void of, well, everything. There's other things but mostly it's a super anti-hype reveal that maybe Japan and a handful of everyone else will celebrate that we'll all be expected to pay for. If you play competitively, you know "well, just don't buy it" doesn't fly so most people are just going to lump it and, again, a DLC character shouldn't be a reluctant buy and it's kind of shady that this is how they designed it. It honestly should have been base if this winds up being true.

Well thank for responding in a pleasant manner I mean I see your point about the character if he gets in I'm gonna be happy and I'm sad that there will be people who won't be but that's just how it is thanks for responding

 

[EarlTamm]

Well thank for responding in a pleasant manner I mean I see your point about the character if he gets in I'm gonna be happy and I'm sad that there will be people who won't be but that's just how it is thanks for responding

It is sad. I recognize the importance of the series and it's legacy, as well as what a character from the games could potentially do. But it all just feels so hallow to me. To add a DQ character for the reasons of promotion and desperation for worldwide fame, it just feels wrong, like a perversion of what a DQ rep should really mean for Smash.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It is sad. I recognize the importance of the series and it's legacy, as well as what a character from the games could potentially do. But it all just feels so hallow to me. To add a DQ character for the reasons of promotion and desperation for worldwide fame, it just feels wrong, like a perversion of what a DQ rep should really mean for Smash.

Desperation, that's a good word here. Sales in the West are meh for the main games and "lol who cares" for the spin-offs but it's honestly not that big of a deal. Dragon Quest could be exclusively Japanese and the series would still be profitable. Again, 93% in Japan and it's SE's second biggest money maker. It just sort of reeks of greed and Toriyama having sour grapes because Westerners aren't actively blowing him like they do for Dragon Ball.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

It is sad. I recognize the importance of the series and it's legacy, as well as what as character from the games could potentially do. But it all just feels so hallow to me. To add a DQ character for the reasons of promotion and desperation for worldwide fame, it just feels wrong, like a perversion of what a DQ rep should really mean for Smash.

No all in all if that's how you feel if isn't wrong at all it is legendary if it's a bad choice you can't make everyone happy and in all honesty trying to is a fools game people are gonna b***h about something roll with the punches if this is a business decision by SQ well then we deal with it and move on buy it or don't that's why it was a dumb idea not to just tell us the dlc characters from the start such a dumb practice buy these characters if you have faith that there good lmao it be a waste if you dont like anything they picked and your dumb if you gave them your money even if they did pick joker first I still didn't buy it why would I risk buying Steve

 

[Calane]

I’m not gonna bash Erdrick or anything. DQ has a really cool art style and I guess that would be interesting to see.

DQ fans, what could his move set be? Would it be unique in any way? Or is Sakurai gonna have to make magic? What makes him your number 1 pick?

Erdrick is my number 1 pick because I love Dragon Quest as a series, and he's the best pick to represent it. To be honest, I'd be fine with pretty much any DQ character making it in, but Erdrick is just who I feel best encapsulates the series, so I think he should be the one to do it. He's also DQ's most popular Hero, so that helps as well.

As for moveset ideas, I made a post about that a while ago. I'll try to post a link to it if I can.

It should be on this page here.

There's a lot of directions one could take in making a moveset for Erdrick, so who knows how he'd turn out if he actually made it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I love the whole narrative that some people here are creating that Erdrick would somehow be an advertising pick, instead of a rep for an iconic videogame franchise with tons of history and the ****ing maker of JRPGs as we know ‘em.

Sure, Erdrick is advertising, that’s why when he’s revealed we’re also getting a remake of Dragon Quest III, the only game where he actually makes an appearance.

This is more than a video game right now. If it's a DQ rep; it's my favorite company siding with a nasty, nasty person. That is ****ing devastating on somthing you look up to. I trust Nintendo to be the moral one's in today's gaming climate. If they will pay the composer just for Smash Bucks, then who can I trust anymore?

Sony seems nice, maybe you can trust them.

 

[ZelDan]

Yeesh, I don't care much for Erdrick either and am not a huge DQ fan (I've only played VII and VIII on the 3DS, and I never even beat VIII), but I'm not THAT bothered by his inclusion. It's not the end of the ****ing world lol.

I also question the logic that DQ's inclusion into Smash would be ONLY for promotion. What if Nintendo appreciates DQ for its legacy and wants to acknowledge it? What if Sakurai himself is a DQ fan (someone did post an article of him defending DQ10)? Is there any proof that this crossover would be done solely for $$$ and nothing else?

 

[EarlTamm]

I love the whole narrative that some people here are creating that Erdrick would somehow be an advertising pick, instead of a rep for an iconic videogame franchise with tons of history and the ****ing maker of JRPGs as we know ‘em.

Sure, Erdrick is advertising, that’s why when he’s revealed we’re also getting a remake of Dragon Quest III, the only game where he actually makes an appearance.

You do realize you just said he wasn't an advertising pick and then said he totally was, right?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Because it's pretty obvious that if this is true then it's a Trojan horse tactic. If it was solely for legacy, an argument could easily be made for base. Like I said earlier, it's a super alienating pick outside Japan with a price tag and pretty much every insider is nodding in agreement that it's largely being done to push the upcoming ports and try to garner Western appeal. It's Super Saiyan Shilling but I don't think anyone is actually arguing against this because, if true, it's very upfront and unabashed. Again, better the 2nd reveal than the 4th or 5th. Let 'em get it out of their system and move on.

 

[-Coco-]

You do realize you just said he wasn't an advertising pick and then said he totally was, right?

He's saying Erdrick isn't ONLY an advertising choice. And he's right, Erdrick's game is what set the standard for the JRPG genre for years to come.

 

[EarlTamm]

He's saying Erdrick isn't ONLY an advertising choice. And he's right, Erdrick's game is what set the standard for the JRPG genre for years to come.

And it's a shame that I think the first motivation outweighs the secound one ten times over for Square.

 

[ZelDan]

Because it's pretty obvious that if this is true then it's a Trojan horse tactic. If it was solely for legacy, an argument could easily be made for base. Like I said earlier, it's a super alienating pick outside Japan with a price tag and pretty much every insider is nodding in agreement that it's largely being done to push the upcoming ports and try to garner Western appeal. It's Super Saiyan Shilling but I don't think anyone is actually arguing against this because, if true, it's very upfront and unabashed. Again, better the 2nd reveal than the 4th or 5th. Let 'em get it out of their system and move on.

I'm not denying that advertisement is a significant part of it, I just don't see why DQ couldn't be both about promotion and legacy.

Granted, it seems like I was looking at this from Nintendo's/Sakurai's perspective while you seem to be looking at this from SE's perspective, which I guess is also important to consider, I could see it where Nintendo is moreso in it for the legacy part and SE is more in it for promotion (not that Nintendo wouldn't care about the advertsement or $$$, or not that there aren't parts of SE that don't care about legacy, but priorities between both companies would be different I'd imagine).

 

[GoodGrief741]

You do realize you just said he wasn't an advertising pick and then said he totally was, right?

The latter part was sarcasm. Erdrick would be terrible as an advertising pick. He’s a one off character from a game released on the NES. If they wanted an advertising character, they’d go for the recent Luminary or at least the always present Slime.

If Erdrick is in the game that to me proves that they are not going for advertising at all.

Because it's pretty obvious that if this is true then it's a Trojan horse tactic. If it was solely for legacy, an argument could easily be made for base. Like I said earlier, it's a super alienating pick outside Japan with a price tag and pretty much every insider is nodding in agreement that it's largely being done to push the upcoming ports and try to garner Western appeal. It's Super Saiyan Shilling but I don't think anyone is actually arguing against this because, if true, it's very upfront and unabashed. Again, better the 2nd reveal than the 4th or 5th. Let 'em get it out of their system and move on.

An argument could be made for base except
A. We’re dealing with Square Enix, who clearly want the most cash out of anything (especially if they’re doing it for the history and not for the advertising)
B. We’re dealing with a game with very limited newcomers
C. Who cares if the pick is DLC or base? You can make the argument that it makes sense to include the more fan demanded picks in base so that people buy the game, or that it makes more sense to make them DLC so that people buy the DLC. You can make the same argument for anything.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yeesh, I don't care much for Erdrick either and am not a huge DQ fan (I've only played VII and VIII on the 3DS, and I never even beat VIII), but I'm not THAT bothered by his inclusion. It's not the end of the ****ing world lol.

I also question the logic that DQ's inclusion into Smash would be ONLY for promotion. What if Nintendo appreciates DQ for its legacy and wants to acknowledge it? What if Sakurai himself is a DQ fan (someone did post an article of him defending DQ10)? Is there any proof that this crossover would be done solely for $$$ and nothing else?

But Erdrick is a shill pick and Square Enix is a soulless company holding Geno hostage and paying a literal nazi boatloads of money! If Erdrick gets into Smash the prophecy of end times will be fulfilled and the sun will go supernova and destroy the world!!!1!!

Before anyone gets outraged, this is simply reductio ad absurdum to convey how I perceive the current argument presented against Erdrick and Dragon Quest's inclusion. I understand that people will be disappointed if Erdrick gets in over another Square Enix character like Geno or Sora, but it's hardly as bad as it's being made out to be.

If the rumors are true and a Persona 5 port is coming to the Nintendo Switch, then isn't Joker just as much of a promotional pick as Erdrick? Is that a bad thing? Looking solely at the reasons behind their inclusion you see they'd be incredibly similar. Both are representative of massive JRPG franchises and promote an upcoming title in their series on Nintendo Switch, with both of them likely being chosen for that reason. Both have their fair share of controversies (you literally fight Hitler in one SMT game, and that's just one instance of offensive content in the series—this all has to be approved by multiple people), and both series aren't as popular in the West as they are in the East (Persona 5 only recently managed to break into the Western market two years ago, prior to that it had more of a cult following than widespread popularity; the Shin Megami Tensei series—which Joker also represents—still has yet to truly break into the Western market). Neither were well requested within the core fanbase, having hardly any presence in fan polls and being similarly laughed at or derided in favor of other characters from their companies. Their inclusion within Smash Bros. is inherently promotion for their respective series, but there's more to it than that. Both series have a good relationship with Nintendo as a company, and are iconic and historic enough to justify inclusion within Smash Brothers Ultimate, a game that goes beyond Nintendo and celebrates gaming as a whole. And I'm sure there are merits to both series that I'm forgetting to mention.

The only difference between the two? Square Enix needs the promotion more than Atlus does. That's it.

Dragon Quest doesn't even necessarily need the help, given that Dragon Quest's performance in the West isn't horrible as people make it out to be. At the end of Nintendo's 2010 fiscal year, Dragon Quest IX had sold 1.02 million copies, which deserves credit. In its first month it sold ~132,000 units, and Dragon Quest XI more than doubled that. Dragon Quest XI is still selling, and with a Switch port on the way it'll only sell more. While it may seem to pale in comparison to other series, Dragon Quest still has an impressive enough Western presence to justify the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character.

If Square and Enix were still separate companies and the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character didn't come at the cost of another character such as Geno or Sora, I believe there wouldn't be this much vitriol being thrown at the series. But unfortunately it is, and here we are, and here I am defending a series I don't even really like that much.

If there's one thing to take out of this, it's to keep an open mind. It's okay to be disappointed; I'll be disappointed if Erdrick is revealed because that means that Sora, the character that I want the most, won't be in Smash Bros. But to wish failure on Square Enix because you disagree with them (it's not like they're scamming their consumers like EA with lootcrates in Battlefront 2) and disparaging people because they're leaking information for us simply isn't okay.

 

[-Coco-]

Verg has commented on the Erdrick rumor. Claims Toriyama is too much of a hermit to be the guest.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Verg has commented on the Erdrick rumor. Claims Toriyama is too much of a hermit to be the guest.

As much as two reveals in December would surprise me, having one reveal at an American event (The Game Awards) and another at a Japanese event (Jump Festa 2019) makes an odd amount of sense. Especially since Persona has become more popular in the West and Dragon Quest is more popular in the East.

It would also make sense as to why people have been hearing about it so much recently: because it's going to happen soon. The idea of the Square Enix character being first could have also come from this along with the fact that no one knew about Joker.

An Erdrick reveal at Jump Festa 2019? Maybe it's a bit more likely than you'd think. They even have a livestream for the Dragon Quest event too. Even if nothing comes of it I'll watch it. Why not?

 

[childishgamgeno]

Both. Each member can use different weapons but so can the hero. As an example in the latest DQ game there protagonist can use a Great Sword, one handed swords(dual wield) , Sword and Shield and he had his own magic too.



Yeah that's what I was thinking with his signature armor.

I guess it’s be cool to start him off in that blue get up as he slowly dons the armor. But idk. I guess that’d armor would have to be a huge factor to differentiate from the swords people. I guess we don’t really have any armored centered characters.

It is sad. I recognize the importance of the series and it's legacy, as well as what a character from the games could potentially do. But it all just feels so hallow to me. To add a DQ character for the reasons of promotion and desperation for worldwide fame, it just feels wrong, like a perversion of what a DQ rep should really mean for Smash.

Unfortunately I’m gonna have to agree. Erdrick, still, at the moment, seems to be a very lackluster choice. He has moveset potential, sure, but just being a swordsman who can use magic in and of itself already makes you less unique. Also, outside of being legendary, DQ as a pick does seem to promote Dragon Quest, and outside of promotion....idk. At least with Marth and Roy they were in the base game for promotion. But to make us pay, for a character I’m not even too thrilled about feels pretty disappointing.
I’m thinking Luminary is probably gonna be the rep over Erdrick, mostly because he’d probably be more familiar with newer people to the DQ series, similar to Lloyd being picked as the Mii Costume.

But Erdrick is a shill pick and Square Enix is a soulless company holding Geno hostage and paying a literal nazi boatloads of money! If Erdrick gets into Smash the prophecy of end times will be fulfilled and the sun will go supernova and destroy the world!!!1!!

Before anyone gets outraged, this is simply reductio ad absurdum to convey how I perceive the current argument presented against Erdrick and Dragon Quest's inclusion. I understand that people will be disappointed if Erdrick gets in over another Square Enix character like Geno or Sora, but it's hardly as bad as it's being made out to be.

If the rumors are true and a Persona 5 port is coming to the Nintendo Switch, then isn't Joker just as much of a promotional pick as Erdrick? Is that a bad thing? Looking solely at the reasons behind their inclusion you see they'd be incredibly similar. Both are representative of massive JRPG franchises and promote an upcoming title in their series on Nintendo Switch, with both of them likely being chosen for that reason. Both have their fair share of controversies (you literally fight Hitler in one SMT game, and that's just one instance of offensive content in the series—this all has to be approved by multiple people), and both series aren't as popular in the West as they are in the East (Persona 5 only recently managed to break into the Western market two years ago, prior to that it had more of a cult following than widespread popularity; the Shin Megami Tensei series—which Joker also represents—still has yet to truly break into the Western market). Neither were well requested within the core fanbase, having hardly any presence in fan polls and being similarly laughed at or derided in favor of other characters from their companies. Their inclusion within Smash Bros. is inherently promotion for their respective series, but there's more to it than that. Both series have a good relationship with Nintendo as a company, and are iconic and historic enough to justify inclusion within Smash Brothers Ultimate, a game that goes beyond Nintendo and celebrates gaming as a whole. And I'm sure there are merits to both series that I'm forgetting to mention.

The only difference between the two? Square Enix needs the promotion more than Atlus does. That's it.

Dragon Quest doesn't even necessarily need the help, given that Dragon Quest's performance in the West isn't horrible as people make it out to be. At the end of Nintendo's 2010 fiscal year, Dragon Quest IX had sold 1.02 million copies, which deserves credit. In its first month it sold ~132,000 units, and Dragon Quest XI more than doubled that. While it may seem to pale in comparison to other series, Dragon Quest still has an impressive enough Western presence to justify the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character.

If Square and Enix were still separate companies and the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character didn't come at the cost of another character such as Geno or Sora, I believe there wouldn't be this much vitriol being thrown at the series. But unfortunately it is, and here we are, and here I am defending a series I don't even really like that much.

If there's one thing to take out of this, it's to keep an open mind. It's okay to be disappointed; I'll be disappointed if Erdrick is revealed because that means that Sora, the character that I want the most, won't be in Smash Bros. But to wish failure on Square Enix because you disagree with them (it's not like they're scamming their consumers like EA with lootcrates in Battlefront 2) and disparaging people because they're leaking information for us simply isn't okay.

I disagree with only a few things. The Persona series was wildly popular before P5, P5 just became the MOST popular out of them. But P3 and 4 as well as Arena were all very well received.

I agree that DQ is historical, iconic and blah blah blah but no 3rd party has ever been introduced to help promote a series that wasn’t selling well, in the West. And DQ continues to struggle here. (The last article I read claims SE didn’t release the numbers for XI in the West yet so ) This move however, is beneficial to both Nintendo and Square so I do understand despite my misgivings

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I disagree with only a few things. The Persona series was wildly popular before P5, P5 just became the MOST popular out of them. But P3 and 4 as well as Arena were all very well received.

I agree that DQ is historical, iconic and blah blah blah but no 3rd party has ever been introduced to help promote a series that wasn’t selling well, in the West. And DQ continues to struggle here. (The last article I read claims SE didn’t release the numbers for XI in the West yet so ) This move however, is beneficial to both Nintendo and Square so I do understand despite my misgivings

On the Dragon Quest sales point, here's what I was saying:

• Dragon Quest XI more than doubled Dragon Quest IX's opening month in the West.
• Dragon Quest IX sold 132,000+ units at the end of March, when it released in the West.
• Therefore, Dragon Quest XI sold more than 264,000 units at the end of its first month, which is impressive

I should've made that clearer in the original post, my apologies.

Also, P3, P4, and Arena were well received, similar to how Dragon Quest XI has been widely well received. That doesn't mean that the Persona series was a popular series. At the very least it definitely wasn't "wildly popular" like you claim. However, this largely isn't the case anymore thanks to the strides Persona 5 made for the series. That's why I say Persona 5 is the game that broke the series into the Western market, because it brought it to the "mainstream" alongside 2016 hits such as Breath of the Wild and Horizon: Zero Dawn where it's stayed.

I disagree with your point about no 3rd party being introduced to help promote a series not selling well, because that was kind of the reason that they included Bayonetta if you think about it. Nintendo wanted to see the series that they personally funded become well-known and sell more, so they added Bayonetta into Smash. While Nintendo doesn't fund Dragon Quest games like Bayonetta, they've similarly published many games in the series for Western markets, and I believe that they have enough of a stake in the series to wish for its success.

Thank you though for giving me an amazing transition to bring up this interesting point from Vergeben:

Dragon Quest is an institution in Japanese pop culture. People in Japan also care about Smash more this time than ever for Ultimate cuz the Switch is big there.

The latest Dragon Quest was reported selling over 4 million copies worldwide is nothing to overlook either
https://gematsu.com/2018/11/dragon-...-shipments-and-digital-sales-top-four-million
Close to 1 million of those reported sales last month was from outside of Japan & the game has been put on sale for PS4 & PC recently since those were revealed. That means continued sales happened & there is still the Switch version to release all together. DQXI will do even bigger numbers over time. Do not be so shortsighted with thinking Dragon Quest means nothing in long term. Nintendo publishes the games when released on their platforms too.

The notion of Smash Bros. catering more towards a casual audience due to the success of the Switch is interesting, and while somewhat dissonant with what we currently know from interviews, makes sense given that Nintendo made the choices this time around and they'd want to strike a balance between well-requested and relevant and core and casual, which Dragon Quest falls right in the middle of (It's always relevant, and caters to the casual audience like no other franchise could while also catering towards more core gamers who know what Dragon Quest is) if you ask me.

The idea of Dragon Quest's performance in the long term irregardless of Smash is one I haven't seen discussed either. I find that odd given how people are so quick to discredit Dragon Quest XI when it's still selling relatively well (and before anyone says that they're discounting it because it's failing, Persona 5 has seen similar and more frequent sales) and will sell more on the Nintendo Switch. Dragon Quest XI alongside other titles in the series have performed well enough to check off the "globally recognized" box that so many of you are eager to deny it.

 

[childishgamgeno]

On the Dragon Quest sales point, here's what I was saying:

• Dragon Quest XI more than doubled Dragon Quest IX's opening month in the West.
• Dragon Quest IX sold 132,000+ units at the end of March, when it released in the West.
• Therefore, Dragon Quest XI sold more than 264,000 units at the end of its first month, which is impressive

I should've made that clearer in the original post, my apologies.

Also, P3, P4, and Arena were well received, similar to how Dragon Quest XI has been widely well received. That doesn't mean that the Persona series was a popular series. At the very least it definitely wasn't "wildly popular" like you claim. However, this largely isn't the case anymore thanks to the strides Persona 5 made for the series. That's why I say Persona 5 is the game that broke the series into the Western market, because it brought it to the "mainstream" alongside 2016 hits such as Breath of the Wild and Horizon: Zero Dawn where it's stayed.

I disagree with your point about no 3rd party being introduced to help promote a series not selling well, because that was kind of the reason that they included Bayonetta if you think about it. Nintendo wanted to see the series that they personally funded become well-known and sell more, so they added Bayonetta into Smash. While Nintendo doesn't fund Dragon Quest games like Bayonetta, they've similarly published many games in the series for Western markets, and I believe that they have enough of a stake in the series to wish for its success.

Thank you though for giving me an amazing transition to bring up this interesting point from Vergeben:

The notion of Smash Bros. catering more towards a casual audience due to the success of the Switch is interesting, and while somewhat dissonant with what we currently know from interviews, makes sense given that Nintendo made the choices this time around and they'd want to strike a balance between well-requested and relevant and core and casual, which Dragon Quest falls right in the middle of (It's always relevant, and caters to the casual audience like no other franchise could while also catering towards more core gamers who know what Dragon Quest is) if you ask me.

The idea of Dragon Quest's performance in the long term irregardless of Smash is one I haven't seen discussed either. I find that odd given how people are so quick to discredit Dragon Quest XI when it's still selling relatively well (and before anyone says that they're discounting it because it's failing, Persona 5 has seen similar and more frequent sales) and will sell more on the Nintendo Switch. Dragon Quest XI alongside other titles in the series have performed well enough to check off the "globally recognized" box that so many of you are eager to deny it.

I’ll agree to you that P5 DEFINITELY blew up in the Western market. But there was already a solid fan base for it beforehand. Along with several localized anime and spin off titles. But if we’re comparing P3, and P4/Arena to DQXI, is that really enough to warrant the widespread appeal you mentioned? That would imply it’s certainly not on the level of P5.

And I think Bayonetta got in because of her popularity, not a failing series? Iirc?

And based on Sakurai’s comments about DQ as a whole, yes it would certainly fall in that middle ground of casual gamers, but I also think the core gamers who would be for DQ are as niche as people claim Geno or Crono fans would be tbh. Which is why I think Luminary would be a more suitable pick. No casual gamer would know who Erdrick is. If we’re comparing DQXI to P5 I doubt gamers would know Luminary over Joker. I’m not, however disagreeing with DQ’s long term potential.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayonetta was not a failing series. It was a cult series that made near a million on a flopping system. It has sense corrected that and made more on a successful system.

Get your facts correct.

Dragon Quest in Smash in this manner is nothing but Nintendo doing Square's dirty work and reaping the celebration of what Dragon Quest already achieved at the same time.

It taints what should already be a happy occasion with ****ty business practices and they deserve egg on their faces if this is what they've done.

Dragon Quest should get in because it's a legacy RPG series that wrote a lot of the formula. Not ''AND IT NEEDS HELP IN THE WEST NINTENDO. HELP US."

No, Square, you get off your ass and actually properly promote and not take the easy way out is what you do.

 

[-Coco-]

Bayonetta was not a failing series. It was a cult series that made near a million on a flopping system. It has sense corrected that and made more on a successful system.

Get your facts correct.

Dragon Quest in Smash in this manner is nothing but Nintendo doing Square's dirty work and reaping the celebration of what Dragon Quest already achieved at the same time.

It taints what should already be a happy occasion with ****ty business practices and they deserve egg on their faces if this is what they've done.

Dragon Quest should get in because it's a legacy RPG series that wrote a lot of the formula. Not ''AND IT NEEDS HELP IN THE WEST NINTENDO. HELP US."

No, Square, you get off your *** and actually properly promote and not take the easy way out is what you do.

Square has been. Why do you think we've gotten a huge influx of DQ titles lately and Yuji Horii was at literally every con since 11 was slated for a western release. This idea of Square not pushing DQ 11 is fantasy and nothing more.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Square has been. Why do you think we've gotten a huge influx of DQ titles lately and Yuji Horii was at literally every con since 11 was slated for a western release. This idea of Square not pushing DQ 11 is fantasy and nothing more.

They didn't do too good of a job then still. It made a fizzle compared to other JRPGS.

Square can't set a precedent of third parties getting into Smash for part of the purpose being to push sales. Because then what's to stop the others from doing the same for their underperforming franchises no matter the part of the world where they are under-performing.

 

[-Coco-]

They didn't do too good of a job then still. It made a fizzle compared to other JRPGS.

Square can't set a precedent of third parties getting into Smash for part of the purpose being to push sales. Because then what's to stop the others from doing the same for their underperforming franchises no matter the part of the world where they are under-performing.

Except it did? 11 is the fasting selling DQ game in the franchise's history. They made a gamble and it paid off.

 

[Captain Fun]

The idea that people are getting this upset, crying "shill pick" and despairing over something that isn't even confirmed yet... God damn, you guys take this stuff too seriously.

If Square and Enix were still separate companies and the inclusion of a Dragon Quest character didn't come at the cost of another character such as Geno or Sora, I believe there wouldn't be this much vitriol being thrown at the series. But unfortunately it is, and here we are, and here I am defending a series I don't even really like that much.

This is a good post, but I disagree with the idea that these characters come at the cost of one another. For example, Nintendo approached Square for Cloud because they wanted Cloud, not a Square Enix mascot to fill a quota.

IDK, pitting them against each other is just a waste of energy.

Except it did? 11 is the fasting selling DQ game in the franchise's history. They made a gamble and it paid off.

They also kind of sent it to die in Spider-Man's release window.

 

[-Coco-]

The idea that people are getting this upset, "crying shill pick" and despairing over something that isn't even confirmed yet... God damn, you guys take this stuff too seriously.
This is a good post, but I disagree with the idea that these characters come at the cost of one another. For example, Nintendo approached Square for Cloud because they wanted Cloud, not a Square Enix mascot to fill a quota.

IDK, pitting them against each other is just a waste of energy.
They also kind of sent it to die in Spider-Man's release window.

... but it didn't die though. It sold very well here. I agree the release was poorly timed however.

 

[Captain Fun]

... but it didn't die though. It sold very well here. I agree the release was poorly timed however.

Right, I know. I was just saying that it did decently in spite of its release timing.

By the way, does Xenother have any kind of track record? Just curious.

 

[Deleted member]

Man, it feels like some people are going through the 5 stages of grief in here haha. It’s only a game, why you have to be mad?

 

[Deleted member]

Everything is a shill pick. Companies don't add their characters in this game out of the good in their hearts, it's to get the most effective advertisement there is.
Konami has all this content because they need good PR after their major **** up and Capcom wasn't in the best spot with fans back when Mega Man was added.
Bayonetta was added to advertise Nintendo and SEGA's new baby.
Pac-Man was solely added because Bamco was working in the game.
And so on and on.

We don't even know who asked for Erdrick. For all we know, Nintendo speciffically asked for him and Square just said "okay"

 

[KidCham]

The first 4 AAA companies on board with the Switch were Square Enix, Sega, Ubisoft and Bethesda.
Sega is working on a SMT game for Switch, we got an SMT character (not going through this again, Persona is a spinoff of SMT).
Square Enix is working on a DQ game for Switch, we got a DQ character.
I feel Ubisoft and Bethesda will be getting a character too, this isn't a pattern, I just think Nintendo asked companies to bring games over to the Switch for a character in Smash's DLC. Sonic Forces and DQXI were both announced in 2016, which is when the DLC was likely chosen based on what Sakurai has said.

you forget SNK, a very old japanese company still not represented in Smash, and they put games too
SNK Heroines
next will be king of fighter and samurai showdown
SNK collection

 

[Nekoo]

>Come back after Finals
>All of that development

You know what's time it is?

It's time to U-U-U-U-U-U-UPDAAAATE!

 

[Deleted member]

I just want another Square franchise in Smash.

I am fine with anyone, even Erdrick.

 

[KidCham]

call me crazy but Erdrick supposedly being in, being a swordman using magic with a cape, i can understand why Isaac and Felix weren't playable if Sakurai knew he had to put him in

 

[Super_Queijo]

Why are people suddenly believing leaks again? The Granblue game was already leaked many months before by Hitagi, this guy just copied there and got lucky. Also, the same guy also “leaked” Steve (with Alex alt), Rayman and Heihachi. Totally believable...