[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[shocktarts17]

Really? Because I think the struggle has always been us DQ fans trying to convince non-DQ fans that the Hero protagonists wouldn't play like Marth.
And I'm sure every moveset Made by a DQ fan won't be sword+shield centric.

Sword and "I Guess shield" abilities is what people new to Erdrick's concept art say about his moveset potential.

And now the struggle is trying to convince people how he wouldn't play anything like Robin.

Besides, Brave playing zoner style is pure assumption. And we also wouldn't know how Erdrick's Magic would act on screen so we can't Say if he'd be a zoner type. (But chances are, yeah, he'd be a zoner due to how the Magic of DQ universe travels like).
-

It isn't about it being sword and shield centric, its about him having a sword and shield in his hands. That is the most iconic look for him as best I can tell since every picture I've seen showing them its what they're holding. If they have it in their hands its not like they aren't ever going to use it so even if they use magic they will still be swinging a sword around which is where Fatmanonice is saying it just doesn't seem to fit with other people holding swords.

EDIT:
I'll add that I don't use any of this to say it 100% can't be Erdrick, just to introduce a healthy dose of skepticism to the constant belief in leakers and acting like it makes them a sure thing.

 

[shinhed-echi]

It isn't about it being sword and shield centric, its about him having a sword and shield in his hands. That is the most iconic look for him as best I can tell since every picture I've seen showing them its what they're holding. If they have it in their hands its not like they aren't ever going to use it so even if they use magic they will still be swinging a sword around which is where Fatmanonice is saying it just doesn't seem to fit with other people holding swords.

EDIT:
I'll add that I don't use any of this to say it 100% can't be Erdrick, just to introduce a healthy dose of skepticism to the constant belief in leakers and acting like it makes them a sure thing.

Erdrick wouldn't be "other people".
Not sure if people want him to be different ir not.

This is how it would sort of look if he were casting a spell.

they put their weapons away before casting spells, if only briefly.

Do you see Cloud's 2nd taunt here?

That's the animation used in FFVII of him casting magic.
No reason why Erdrick couldn't do the same.

... "Doesn't fit"... Seriously of all the fan rules...

 

[Deleted member]

But why would Erdrick not have a sword in Smash? He's almost always depicted with one. Link is super versatile too in his games but it would be extremely weird for him not to have a sword. Same premise. It's also notable that adult Erdrick always has a sword about the same size as the Master Sword, heavily conflicting with my stat analysis. Long sword users are usually fast and light or slow and more on the heavy side, with these traits being more pronounced the better ranged options they have. Brave's stats are not like Marth or Link or Metaknight or Shulk. He's very well rounded which swordsmen typically aren't. As said before, the sword fighter they are the similar to is Mii Sword Fighter, who has poor range but multiple mid range projectiles and poor ground speed but multiple quick movement options on top of decent aerial movement.

I answered this in a previous reply

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

But why would Erdrick not have a sword in Smash?

So maybe he still has his sword but has more to use than just said sword. What's the big deal?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Another thing that gets is that when you look at Joker's frame data, you can practically visualize how he'll play. It fits a character like Joker perfectly. His data is very similar to Marth, Sheik, and Greninja. He even has a wall jump. Aside from the uncharacteristic jump height (about the same as Samus), Pirhana Plant's stats make sense too. Run speed like Mario, fall speed like K. Rool and Snake, air speed like DK, and bad aerial lag like a lot of heavies with good reaching and hard hitting aerials. He's also a super heavyweight at 112 to match with these stats. Brave is a lot more ambiguous in comparison. Joker's stats match a rushdown character. Pirhana Plant matchs a long reaching heavyweight. Brave doesn't really match a swordsman with the sword outlier, Mii Swordsman, being the most similar.

 

[Ovaltine]

Hooo boy, things got a bit heated in here.

As a Geno fan, I will say that I'm extremely sure this character is Erdrick. I do believe insiders may have been mislead in terms of it being adult Erdrick, but for kid Erdrick, it's pretty undeniable to me that these stats could fit. I'm keeping my expectations tempered, and everyone else should, too.

That being said, let people speculate. As long as it's done with a massive grain of salt, I don't see the problem. I do believe some people are being more hopeful of it not being Erdrick than they should be, but all things considered, the possibility that Erdrick is a red herring is still there. It's a very small possibility in my eyes, but it's still there. Considering all angles is important to keeping yourself lodged in reality, as long as you prevent yourself from falling into fantastical hopes and treating them like they're fact. Investigate, speculate, but don't bring your hopes too high, lest they end up dropped and shattered like fine china.

Along with that, if people are skeptical, this is fine. As long as hopes are kept in check, fine. If some people are hoping too much for a better outcome, I warn you to please be careful with your hopes. That being said, don't insult people or throw around ad hominem for speculating. I understand trying to protect people from crushing disappointment, but there's a way to go about it. That isn't. If anything, it lends less credence to your argument and just makes you look, rather bluntly, immature as hell. If your argument isn't presented in an adult manner (remember, bluntness =/= tactlessness and vice versa), I personally wouldn't give you the time of day, even if your points may otherwise be considered by an objective standpoint. Think before you speak.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Brave doesn't really match a swordsman with the sword outlier,

That would make sense if Sword fighters weren't characterized in some dictated manner. Come on now. Give 'em more credit than that.

Cloud's a sword fighter with multiple different means of pursuing enemies. He and Corrin both have projectiles of sorts. Hell, some characterslike Ganondorf actually use swords now despite previously not, so this whole"what fits a swordsman" angle, doesn't really work if we're judging based off of what we've got. And that's not even mentioning how Erdrick could easily only really his sword for specific moves and/or scenarios, compared to all his other moves to boot.

 

[MajoraMan28]

You can speculate all you want, but doing it on the basis of data that is subject to change isn't productive, imho.

 

[PsySmasher]

Hooo boy, things got a bit heated in here.

As a Geno fan, I will say that I'm extremely sure this character is Erdrick. I do believe insiders may have been mislead in terms of it being adult Erdrick, but for kid Erdrick, it's pretty undeniable to me that these stats could fit. I'm keeping my expectations tempered, and everyone else should, too.

That being said, let people speculate. As long as it's done with a massive grain of salt, I don't see the problem. I do believe some people are being more hopeful of it not being Erdrick than they should be, but all things considered, the possibility that Erdrick is a red herring is still there. It's a very small possibility in my eyes, but it's still there. Considering all angles is important to keeping yourself lodged in reality, as long as you prevent yourself from falling into fantastical hopes and treating them like they're fact. Investigate, speculate, but don't bring your hopes too high, lest they end up dropped and shattered like fine china.

Along with that, if people are skeptical, this is fine. As long as hopes are kept in check, fine. If some people are hoping too much for a better outcome, I warn you to please be careful with your hopes. That being said, don't insult people or throw around ad hominem for speculating. I understand trying to protect people from crushing disappointment, but there's a way to go about it. That isn't. If anything, it lends less credence to your argument and just makes you look, rather bluntly, immature as hell. If your argument isn't presented in an adult manner (remember, bluntness =/= tactlessness and vice versa), I personally wouldn't give you the time of day, even if your points may otherwise be considered by an objective standpoint. Think before you speak.

Honestly, when is it NOT heated in this thread?

But yeah. Completely agree w/ this statement.

It's fine whether you believe Erdrick is in/not in. But as long as you don't insult people or get your hopes up too high, you should be fine.

The datamined data is all up for debate too. It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

 

[shocktarts17]

Erdrick wouldn't be "other people".
Not sure if people want him to be different ir not.

This is how it would sort of look if he were casting a spell.

they put their weapons away before casting spells, if only briefly.

Do you see Cloud's 2nd taunt here?

That's the animation used in FFVII of him casting magic.
No reason why Erdrick couldn't do the same.

... "Doesn't fit"... Seriously of all the fan rules...

Look I'm not trying to say that a sword guy who uses magic is impossible since we clearly have Robin already, I'm saying that if the stats suggest the character isn't using a sword then that sure doesn't seem like it would point to Erdirck who would probably have a sword and shield even if they were planning to make him a magic user otherwise he wouldn't really seem like Erdrick since all promotional artwork shows him holding a sword and shield.

Yes it could still be Erdrick, yes he could be a super unique sword user, yes he could do a ton of magic and be a zoner, yes its probably still more likely than anything else. But its sure different than what most people were expecting from Erdrick so I just think it should push a little doubt into the possibility of it being Erdirck and anyone ignoring that or suggesting that Erdrick is 100% are putting way too much faith in the leakers.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

What even is this arbitrary stigma against sword fighter I've seen within the Smash community anyway? lol

 

[shinhed-echi]

Look I'm not trying to say that a sword guy who uses magic is impossible since we clearly have Robin already, I'm saying that if the stats suggest the character isn't using a sword then that sure doesn't seem like it would point to Erdirck who would probably have a sword and shield even if they were planning to make him a magic user otherwise he wouldn't really seem like Erdrick since all promotional artwork shows him holding a sword and shield.

Yes it could still be Erdrick, yes he could be a super unique sword user, yes he could do a ton of magic and be a zoner, yes its probably still more likely than anything else. But its sure different than what most people were expecting from Erdrick so I just think it should push a little doubt into the possibility of it being Erdirck and anyone ignoring that or suggesting that Erdrick is 100% are putting way too much faith in the leakers.

I'm ok with having a few doubts myself.

And sorry for the ignorance, but can someone please tell me, how do the parameters point at Brave not using a sword?

Cause if it's just knowledge by patterns shown in Smash so far, I'm going to just ignore it.

(Example: "How would Little Mac fight by just punching? No character has fought without using his legs!"
~Back in SSB3DS/WiiU speculation days)

 

[Fatmanonice]

So maybe he still has his sword but has more to use than just said sword. What's the big deal?

Because swordsmen primarily fight with their swords. Their jab, dash attack, tilts, Smash attacks, and aerials use a sword a vast majority of the time. They usually have at least one special that involves their sword too. It's a defining characteristic of them. Robin uses magic for his specials and jab but the rest is his Trusty Levin Sword ™. The Links' gear is reserved for their specials and grabs for the prepubescent Links. If a character is always holding a weapon, they're going to be using it for a good chunk of their attacks. Dedede has his hammer, Belmonts have the Vampire Killer, etc. So far there's no sword character like Villager that pulls out different gear for standard attacks. Even if characters do pull out weapons for standard attacks, it's consistent. Greninja creates water kunai and Ganondorf pulls out the Orphan Maker © for Smash attacks.That said, if it's adult Erdrick, he's super likely to be using a long sword for most of his attacks with other things being specials.

 

[Deleted member]

What even if this arbitrary stigma against sword fighter I've seen within the Smash community anyway? lol

Beats me. I think its just the amount of characters that are based on Marth and Link, or characters seen as unwanted like Corrin. Although it could easily be that its just that not many fan favorites here are sword users, Its dumb to be honest.

 

[PsySmasher]

What even if this arbitrary stigma against sword fighter I've seen within the Smash community anyway? lol

Basically it's the stigma that "if a character uses a sword, that means they're exactly the same as all the other sword users".
(Which is really ****ing stupid).

Especially since we only got ONE sword newcomer in Ultimate:
And he was an ECHO.

 

[xenother]

?

I believe even SpawnWave was told by his sources there'd be Metroid. And IIRC PolarPanda heard the same.
I mean, maybe you're right, but I definitely recall some big names stating they were deceived.

Check this out.

I can't really speak for SpawnWave since I've never spoken to him and don't keep up at all with what he says.

As for Polar, what his source heard about Metroid was super vague and didn't mention anything about TGA's.

 

[osby]

Basically it's the stigma that "if a character uses a sword, that means they're exactly the same as all the other sword users".
(Which is really ****ing stupid).

Especially since we only got ONE sword newcomer in Ultimate:
And he was an ECHO.

Not to mention Chrom is plays different from Roy. Unlike , none of them using swords.

 

[PsySmasher]

Not to mention Chrom is plays different from Roy. Unlike , none of them using swords.

has some very minor gameplay differences from if I recall correctly.
and are just carbon copies of and w/ different animations.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Beats me. I think its just the amount of characters that are based on Marth and Link, or characters seen as unwanted like Corrin. Although it could easily be that its just that not many fan favorites here are sword users, Its dumb to be honest.

Ironically, it only feels like yesterday that people WANTED Ganondorf to actually use his sword in gameplay.

Also, whileI get the Marth side (and even that's a stretch), sword fighters outside the FE circle have been varied enough honestly.

Because swordsmen primarily fight with their swords. Their jab, dash attack, tilts, Smash attacks, and aerials use a sword a vast majority of the time. They usually have at least one special that involves their sword too. It's a defining characteristic of them. Robin uses magic for his specials and jab but the rest is his Trusty Levin Sword ™. The Links' gear is reserved for their specials and grabs for the prepubescent Links. If a character is always holding a weapon, they're going to be using it for a good chunk of their attacks. Dedede has his hammer, Belmonts have the Vampire Killer, etc. So far there's no sword character like Villager that pulls out different gear for standard attacks. Even if characters do pull out weapons for standard attacks, it's consistent. Greninja creates water kunai and Ganondorf pulls out the Orphan Maker © for Smash attacks.That said, if it's adult Erdrick, he's super likely to be using a long sword for most of his attacks with other things being specials.

That's nice. But it doesn't answer my point though. I'm not saying that Erdrick would never use his sword, but just because it's what he's seen with often, doesn't necessitate that the sword is what characterizes him. His home gameplay revolves around versatility, and like you've argued yourself, Sakurai likes to stay faithful. Who's to say he won't pull a Ganondorf of sorts and doesn't use his sword as majorly as you might expect based off the stats.

Yet another example of why the stats aren't really definitive of anything.

 

[FLGibsonIII]

The resistance to sword users is weird since we have had a grand total of one sword-using newcomer in this game... and he was an Echo Fighter.

And no, Joker is not a swordsman either.

Yeah, but there are already many sworfighters in the cast regardless of newcomers. I think the real reason people get upset is that sword fighters have large disjointed hitboxes that create bad matchups for many characters. I dont necessarily agree with the sentiment being a sword main myself, but as someone who plays ice climbers a lot I certainly understand it.

 

[shocktarts17]

I'm ok with having a few doubts myself.

And sorry for the ignorance, but can someone please tell me, how do the parameters point at Brave not using a sword?

Cause if it's just knowledge by patterns shown in Smash so far, I'm going to just ignore it.

(Example: "How would Little Mac fight by just punching? No character has fought without using his legs!"
~Back in SSB3DS/WiiU speculation days)

Yes it's based on patterns and that's the whole point, yes there can be cases where a pattern is broken but when 99% of the cases they follow the pattern to say that this will 100% be that instance where the pattern is broken without evidence just doesn't make much sense. It's great to hope for a pattern break to assume it's for sure happening is just setting yourself up for trouble.

What even is this arbitrary stigma against sword fighter I've seen within the Smash community anyway? lol

Honestly I think its both partially a tie into Fire Emblem fatigue and a simple matter of percentages. If a much larger percentage of the cast uses swords compared to guns/axes/spears/hammers/etc. then when another sword gets added it feels like its making the balance even worse. Doesn't make it right but I think its a common thought.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That would make sense if Sword fighters weren't characterized in some dictated manner. Come on now. Give 'em more credit than that.

Cloud's a sword fighter with multiple different means of pursuing enemies. He and Corrin both have projectiles of sorts. Hell, some characterslike Ganondorf actually use swords now despite previously not, so this whole"what fits a swordsman" angle, doesn't really work if we're judging based off of what we've got. And that's not even mentioning how Erdrick could easily only really his sword for specific moves and/or scenarios, compared to all his other moves to boot.

Except I've gone over the archetypes several times now. Cloud's projectile is not essential to his playstyle and he plays a lot like Marth and Lucina. He's fast with great spacing aerials, great range, and a lot of reliable kill options. He even lacks grab follow ups, true kill throws, and has a poor recovery without limit. Hell, Limit temporarily gave Cloud stats similar to Ultimate Roy in Smash 4. Corrin doesn't play terribly different from Shulk and Ike when it comes to reach, kill power, and general standard mobility. Once again, they even have below average jumps and recoveries (minus Monado) and there's even a one unit weight difference between Corrin and Shulk. Only big difference is that Corrin has a projectile that's most effective almost point blank because of the stun factor and Corrin's long reach.

Most swordsmen are fast and light or slow and heavy. Most have poor jumps and bad recoveries. Light swordsmen with less range are compensated with multiple projectiles and/or above average recovery options. There's a balancing concept at work here. As Mizumi's video showed, Ike with Brave's stats is pretty busted unless it turns out that Brave's Aerials have a decent amount of lag but, that's the thing, that's not characteristic of sword fighters. Even slow sword fighters have good aerials.

https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ead-training-mode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/

Go through all the sword fighters. The aerial data is very consistent. Every single sword user in the game except Robin (which all are 11 besides Dair so still above average) has at least two aerials that have single digit landing lag. That ties into my talks so far about the swordfighter archetype and how they are designed witj certain principles in mind.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Cloud's projectile is not essential to his playstyle and he plays a lot like Marth and Lucina.

Yeaaaah. No. Their Side-Bs are similar and that's really it. Cloud doesn't have a counter, his buster sword range alone calls for a playstyle different enough from Marth. Not to mention, his sword strikes aren't nearly as fast as Marth's to boot.

He's fast with great spacing aerials, great range, and a lot of reliable kill options.

There are numerous fighters, including non-sword fighters who fit that description. Please tell me you aren't fundamentally serious here.

He even lacks grab follow ups, true kill throws, and has a poor recovery without limit.

And yet, he gains with limit, something the other sword fighters don't do. You're trying to claim they're identical in playstyle, but you've always got these differences that culminate into something notably different between them.

Most swordsmen are fast and light or slow and heavy.

Cloud Strife is fast and has relatively medium-to-heavy weight. I think we aught to read between the lines here.

Ike with Brave's stats is pretty busted unless it turns out that Brave's Aerials have a decent amount of lag but, that's the thing,

Hmmm, a character with stats different than what was intended for them and their particular moveset turns out "busted". Who'd have imagined? Could be a faster swordman or one who operates different from whatever your pre-conceived notion of sword fighters is. I mean, does applying the stats even change Ike's height or size?

 

[GeorgeMV]

Hey guys i been reading a lot lately in this thread, and I know maybe the next character its Erdrick but I really like to think that its Crono because the character fits pretty well in the game especially in the music department (I would love to hear remixes from the game which I consider one of my favourite soundtracks).
I dont know if you have seen this but check this video, after seen it I did get my hopes up for Crono in Smash.

 

[Sigran101]

Another thing that gets is that when you look at Joker's frame data, you can practically visualize how he'll play. It fits a character like Joker perfectly. His data is very similar to Marth, Sheik, and Greninja. He even has a wall jump. Aside from the uncharacteristic jump height (about the same as Samus), Pirhana Plant's stats make sense too. Run speed like Mario, fall speed like K. Rool and Snake, air speed like DK, and bad aerial lag like a lot of heavies with good reaching and hard hitting aerials. He's also a super heavyweight at 112 to match with these stats. Brave is a lot more ambiguous in comparison. Joker's stats match a rushdown character. Pirhana Plant matchs a long reaching heavyweight. Brave doesn't really match a swordsman with the sword outlier, Mii Swordsman, being the most similar.

As someone who is sceptical of Erdrick, I don't see the merit in this argument. I would expect Erdrick to be different from other swordsman. Based on what I've played of the dragon quest games I'd expect him to use a variety of weapons, including but not limited to the sword and shield. Maybe I'm completely missing your point but that's just my two cents.

BTW I've totally warmed up to Erdrick. The idea of a weapons master character sounds incredibly cool and unique. And if we do get a tales of rep then we'd have Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Tales of all in one game, which would be monumental. I still prefer Geno and Sephiroth but at this point I am totally down for Erdrick. Still sceptical though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon What's the point of being super condescending to every thing I say? I've mentioned parameters. "Most." "Similar." "Like." I never said Marth and Cloud are identical. I said they play similarly and have similar concepts in their playstyle that match the overall basic concepts of sword users.

On this note, why is everyone super defensive all of a sudden? Is this really that personal to people because apparently I'm genuinely offending people by expressing doubts and explaining them. Yeah, I hope they'll just confirm whoever Brave is soon so we can move on to talking about Ryu or Steve for 5 months.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey guys i been reading a lot lately in this thread, and I know maybe the next character its Erdrick but I really like to think that its Crono because the character fits pretty well in the game especially in the music department (I would love to hear remixes from the game which I consider one of my favourite soundtracks).
I dont know if you have seen this but check this video, after seen it I did get my hopes up for Crono in Smash.

Oh this is awesome, thanks for sharing!

 

[Sigran101]

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon What's the point of being super condescending to every thing I say? I've mentioned parameters. "Most." "Similar." "Like." I never said Marth and Cloud are identical. I said they play similarly and have similar concepts in their playstyle that match the overall basic concepts of sword users.

On this note, why is everyone super defensive all of a sudden? Is this really that personal to people because apparently I'm genuinely offending people by expressing doubts and explaining them. Yeah, I hope they'll just confirm whoever Brave is soon so we can move on to talking about Ryu or Steve for 5 months.

People who think they are right tend to get offended when someone disagrees. Especially when they are the majority. It's really annoying but that's just how it is. Not naming names.

Edit: I hope you didn't take my post as defensive. I was just trying to understand.

 

[Xigger]

Lots of discussion on Erdrick and playstyle. The thing is, you're both right, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon & Fatmanonice , but you're both talking about different things.

There are character-specific playstyles, and there are archetype-specific playstyles. For example, Cloud is unique as a character for his Limit break, but as a heavyweight swordsmen his general approach strategy is still very similar to other heavyweights. Character-specifics are their specific moves and gimmicks, Archetype-specifics are their movement and strategies.

There's no need to try to come to a consensus, you're both right. It would be better to talk about the same concept first.

 

[shocktarts17]

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon What's the point of being super condescending to every thing I say? I've mentioned parameters. "Most." "Similar." "Like." I never said Marth and Cloud are identical. I said they play similarly and have similar concepts in their playstyle that match the overall basic concepts of sword users.

On this note, why is everyone super defensive all of a sudden? Is this really that personal to people because apparently I'm genuinely offending people by expressing doubts and explaining them. Yeah, I hope they'll just confirm whoever Brave is soon so we can move on to talking about Ryu or Steve for 5 months.

Honestly I think the Erdrick thing has been around so long it's become comfortable, people are used to the idea of Erdrick and (baring his fans which I'm sure are stoked) he's about the least offensive DLC we've had "leaked" in a while so people want to latch onto him over more controversial picks like Steve, Geno, or Sora who all elicit fairly strong feelings one way or another.

 

[GeorgeMV]

Oh this is awesome, thanks for sharing!

Glad to share!!
Seeing the fanart (which clearly its a reference to the original box art) makes me think that Crono could be a medium size character just like his chibi arts form toriyama i could fit pretty good and imagine it being like Zelda´s height.

 

[Fatmanonice]

People who think they are right tend to get offended when someone disagrees. Especially when they are the majority. It's really annoying but that's just how it is. Not naming names.

Edit: I hope you didn't take my post as defensive. I was just trying to understand.

Yeah, the tone I've been getting is much less "I disagree" and more "go **** yourself." Simply put, you're not allowed to have doubt, even if you explain yourself. I came back to this thread because it seemed that it was okay to argue Erdrick and his depiction in Smash again but I apparently need to **** off again so, exit, stage left...

 

[PsySmasher]

Guys, this arguing over stats is really pointless.

If the codenames were missing and the characters weren't announced, you would have no idea what characters these stats relate to.

If "Packu" and "Jack" didn't indicate the characters, you would have no idea that the stats were for Piranha Plant and Joker.

We're literally trying to argue that it is/isn't Erdrick based on stats.

And without that codename "Brave", we wouldn't have any reason to believe these stats are for Erdrick.

So honestly, "Brave" is the main piece of evidence we have.

Because stats aren't enough to draw conclusions on a character, especially since those stats can change.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Ganondorf of sorts and doesn't use his sword as majorly as you might expect based off the stats.

To be fair, if it's OOT ganondorf, you wouldn't expect him to use his sword at all.

 

[Xigger]

Because stats aren't enough to draw conclusions on a character, especially since those stats can change.

Do they change though? I've heard otherwise from the people reading through the stats, and I'm much more inclined to believe people writing paragraphs of research and facts.

 

[PsySmasher]

Do they change though? I've heard otherwise from the people reading through the stats, and I'm much more inclined to believe people writing paragraphs of research and facts.

Based on what we've seen for Piranha Plant, yes it looks like stats can change.

originally had stats of 94 weight & 1.12 run speed.
Now it has stats of 112 weight & 1.72 run speed.

And the reason why I'm saying those stats we're tied to is b/c those we're the only stats that weren't related to a character when the data was found pre-Ultimate's release. And Plant was the only DLC character known at the time.

I also made threads about the run/air speeds and weights of all characters prior to Ultimate's release, so I have gone through this info before.

 

[shocktarts17]

If "Packu" and "Jack" didn't indicate the characters, you would have no idea that the stats were for Piranha Plant and Joker.

But we would know how they would play, PP's stats are a heavyweight with weird reach and Joker's are an agile rusher. So then you hear who goes to the stats and it makes sense. So when you look at Brave's stats and see a floaty zoner who's short and slippery and then someone says that's Erdrick that's where the disconnect comes in.

Do they change though? I've heard otherwise from the people reading through the stats, and I'm much more inclined to believe people writing paragraphs of research and facts.

Yeah not as much as people are suggesting. A couple of PP's stats were adjusted, probably due to balance issues, but most of the stats weren't touched and the whole idea of the character remained intact. Some people are talking like every number could all change at once which makes you wonder why they would even bother putting the stats in at all if they were that subject to change.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, this arguing over stats is really pointless.

If the codenames were missing and the characters weren't announced, you would have no idea what characters these stats relate to.

If "Packu" and "Jack" didn't indicate the characters, you would have no idea that the stats were for Piranha Plant and Joker.

We're literally trying to argue that it is/isn't Erdrick based on stats.

And without that codename "Brave", we wouldn't have any reason to believe these stats are for Erdrick.

So honestly, "Brave" is the main piece of evidence we have.

Because stats aren't enough to draw conclusions on a character, especially since those stats can change.

Do they change though? I've heard otherwise from the people reading through the stats, and I'm much more inclined to believe people writing paragraphs of research and facts.

If we're talking about this smash cycle, only comparison we have currently is PP so unless we have a few more reveals and see how the stats change in the future it can make jumping into conclusions a bit hasty. The current stats may be a placeholder that every character starts with when they start development.

 

[shocktarts17]

If we're talking about this smash cycle, only comparison we have currently is PP so unless we have a few more reveals and see how the stats change in the future it can make jumping into conclusions a bit hasty. The current stats may be a placeholder that every character starts with when they start development.

I mean that's kind of a weird assumption considering Brave has that weird slipping thing that almost no character has, unless Luigi is for some reason the base for all their characters I guess. Calling these placeholder just doesn't make sense, they don't have placeholder stats for the other 3 DLC fighters so it's not like they HAVE to have something there. If they really have nothing and all the numbers are placeholders then why add them at all?

 

[PsySmasher]

But we would know how they would play, PP's stats are a heavyweight with weird reach and Joker's are an agile rusher. So then you hear who goes to the stats and it makes sense. So when you look at Brave's stats and see a floaty zoner who's short and slippery and then someone says that's Erdrick that's where the disconnect comes in.

My point was if Piranha Plant and Joker were NOT announced, meaning we don't know they're coming to the game, and the codenames were NOT indicative of the character (meaning no "Packu" or "Jack") would you be able to tell me for a fact that those stats relate to PP and Joker?

We're in a similar situation with Erdrick. If you look at just the stats, would you be able to tell me for a fact whether or not it is Erdrick, a character who's only considered because of the codename and info from leakers ,which may or may not be true?