[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[DaybreakHorizon]

Because Nintendo has clearly managed to spread a ton of misinformation back during pre-release, no? And what misinformation are you even talking about? We only ever believed Metroid would be shown because of a online store listing which was speculative in the first place.

Right now I'm working on a large speculation post about the SE Rep (will likely be posted in another day or so), but after that I'm going to look at The Game Awards as a Case Study for Doubt.

Look forward to that.

 

[Deleted member]

Right now I'm working on a large speculation post about the SE Rep (will likely be posted in another day or so), but after that I'm going to look at The Game Awards as a Case Study for Doubt.

Look forward to that.

Just at least explain exactly what was even intentional misinformation coming from Nintendo if you're gonna avoid my points conpletely.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

View attachment 182292
Just at least explain exactly what was even intentional misinformation coming from Nintendo if you're gonna avoid my points conpletely.View attachment 182292

Basically, every insider thought we weren't getting Smash Bros. Spawn Wave, a known, credible insider with a streak of correct claims, was banking on Metroid Prime Trilogy and Metroid Prime 4.

And then we got Smash Bros.

The info about Metroid and no Smash Bros. didn't come from nowhere. it came from Nintendo.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Trusting almost any of the leakers at this point is baseless.
I'm not sure the list of 7 characters is even a thing to be true. Maybe this was all a decoy to put another major character in, like Randi from Secret of Mana or Tifa.
The Joker announcement rocked the world with the unpredicatibility of DLC and how they will approach it. There's a new Reggie interview that went out today talking about DLC. They will be looking for icons and relevant figures in the world of gaming, even he/she/it isn't usually associated with Nintendo.
Btw, his response for Persona 5 on Switch was pure PR. We know we'll be getting it. So yeah, if you see a third party character in Smash, you'll always get that character's game afterwards in some form.
For now, all we can do is sit down and wait for future Nintendo Directs.

 

[Luigi The President]

I've said it once and I'll say it as many times as I need to, but I don't believe anything that Fatmanonice and other insiders say. Nintendo have proven themselves capable of spreading misinformation with The Game Awards, and we have no reason to trust what they say based off of that.

TPC I must ask, what /are/ your current beliefs right now? Regarding TGA and Squenix rep?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

TPC I must ask, what /are/ your current beliefs right now? Regarding TGA and Squenix rep?

I can't say much since I've got two large analysis posts on these exact topics.

• The Game Awards: Nintendo jebaited insiders. This has wider implications.
• Square Enix Rep: It's still happening; too many people have heard about it for it not to happen.

I'm currently around 30-40% complete with the Square Enix post (It's VERY large) and The Game Awards post will be much shorter. The Square Enix post will drop in another day or two depending on how far I get tonight, and The Game Awards post will drop either the same day or the day after that.

 

[Starblax]

I'm really starting to wonder if Sora is coming.

After I somehow managed to call Joker (try and take my word for that lol), I'm really starting to feel Sora. DQ's gonna have problems with its composer presumably, and it's not popular in the West and even the creator knows that. Geno's a tad screwed because even if they aren't deconfirmations, spirits don't exactly help a character.

I can't see it being anyone else at this point and that's really strange. Maybe it could be Neku who knows.

 

[SSGuy]

The one reason that I can't help but still believe Geno is going to be our guy (aside from personal bias) is the literal **** storm that Sakurai had to go through with just getting Cloud back into the game. It just seems like just getting him back alone was a real hassle to the point where they probably did not spend as much time with really negotiating for an entirely new character/franchise to have the rights for.

I could be wrong but would Nintendo/Sakurai really consider going through the trouble to get in Dragon Quest approved by all parties if it was enough of a hassle to get Cloud back into the roster? It just makes it seem as if Geno or Crono are the most likely with that alone.

Music Menu theory could also play in Geno's favor if we are indeed getting a Microsoft and Namco character (allegedly) Ending up with three characters from a new series to Smash along with two from a current franchise is a possible outcome. I don't think Geno can be written off until the day someone comes out and says it is absolutely not him as they have with Sora.

 

[A.G.L.]

The one reason that I can't help but still believe Geno is going to be our guy (aside from personal bias) is the literal **** storm that Sakurai had to go through with just getting Cloud back into the game. It just seems like just getting him back alone was a real hassle to the point where they probably did not spend as much time with really negotiating for an entirely new character/franchise to have the rights for.

I could be wrong but would Nintendo/Sakurai really consider going through the trouble to get in Dragon Quest approved by all parties if it was enough of a hassle to get Cloud back into the roster? It just makes it seem as if Geno or Crono are the most likely with that alone.

Music Menu theory could also play in Geno's favor if we are indeed getting a Microsoft and Namco character (allegedly) Ending up with three characters from a new series to Smash along with two from a current franchise is a possible outcome. I don't think Geno can be written off until the day someone comes out and says it is absolutely not him as they have with Sora.

Keep in mind the same leakers and insiders who said no to Sora were wrong about the Square Rep being the first DLC, he is very much still in the running for the 2nd Square Rep.

Also the last time people tried using music theory to predict the base roster it proved false, so it’s possible music theory could be debunked again in the DLC.

 

[xenother]

Another thing people I would like to add about Verge, his information changes most likely all the time. Since his dms got leaked, he doesn’t share his information anymore, hitagi hasn’t talked to verge since the November direct. That’s why he hasn’t publicly said anything about Square, I guarantee you things have changed. I’m also pretty damn sure xenother is just piggybacking off of verge, just look at his god damn gamefaqs account, it’s like a month old. So, what I’m trying to say is stop taking the claims about the list as fact, seriously. Things change.

I'll you right now that your claim about Hitagi isn't true.

And your logic that I'm piggybacking off Vergeben is questionable. I've made claims that Verge hasn't and vice versa.

 

[Ezclapper]

I'll you right now that your claim about Hitagi isn't true.

And your logic that I'm piggybacking off Vergeben is questionable. I've made claims that Verge hasn't and vice versa.

I mean, how is my claims about your credibility questionable in any way? Do you have any type of track record? You literally made a huge statement on gamefaqs about what we are getting for DLC, it literally just looks like your average 4chan post. With Hitagi, they legit said on reddit they haven’t talked to verge in a while, so I don’t know how I’m wrong about that lol.

 

[Nekoo]

I'll you right now that your claim about Hitagi isn't true.

And your logic that I'm piggybacking off Vergeben is questionable. I've made claims that Verge hasn't and vice versa.

Well, I hope you wouldn't mind, but, would it be possible for you to summarise what do you exactly claim about the SE rep and what Vergeben/Hitagi claim? It could be a nice way to make everyone on the same page, and I'll add the difference on the main post.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean, how is my claims about your credibility questionable in any way? Do you have any type of track record? You literally made a huge statement on gamefaqs about what we are getting for DLC, it literally just looks like your average 4chan post. With Hitagi, they legit said on reddit they haven’t talked to verge in a while, so I don’t know how I’m wrong about that lol.

Hitagi is also not very credible. They've gone back and forth about Katalina a lot.

 

[KidCham]

I think 2B is a dead cause. I appreciate that ole homegirl is beloved, but I doubt they'd have put her in Soul Calibur if she was also showing up in Smash.

This is why I'm also doubtful of Rayman. Him even more so. At least 2B isn't ''settling". Rayman is just straight up settling in the ****fest he's in.

i feel it's even more likely because she is in soul calibur that she can be in smash

for first for both games Namco is at work, for second it grants even more visibility to the character
Soul Calibur and Smash aren't even on the same public, and moreso it could just give people who have 2B on soul calibur to buy her on smash because they liked her and vice versa
Since for both it's namco bandai, and it's more sellspoint for 2B to be in two games at once

 

[xenother]

Well, I hope you wouldn't mind, but, would it be possible for you to summarise what do you exactly claim about the SE rep and what Vergeben/Hitagi claim? It could be a nice way to make everyone on the same page, and I'll add the difference on the main post.

My claim about the Square rep is that it's not Geno or Sora. I think that's all I've really said at this point.

I'm not certain about what exactly the others have said, and I don't want to get anything twisted, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[MajoraMan28]

My claim about the Square rep is that it's not Geno or Sora. I think that's all I've really said at this point.

I'm not certain about what exactly the others have said, and I don't want to get anything twisted, so I'll leave it at that.

And you still honestly believe it would be one of the 5 remaining characters of that DM?

 

[A.G.L.]

In my personal opinion, the easiest way to predict what Square will choose is to look at their past business decisions. Because we know they are very strict about letting leaks get out, combine that with Nintendo themselves spreading false information among insiders and Square spreading false leaks. The whole leak and insider department is a mine field.

So in my opinion the best way to predict Square’s movements is by their past business decisions. In some ways Square can be predictable because they always choose cross promoted characters that are globally popular.

So let’s look at their recent cross promotions and see if we notice the pattern.

Cloud in Smash Wii U (Cross promotion of FF franchise and FF14)

Ardyn & Bahamut Assasins Creed Origins (Cross promotion of FF15)

Noctis Tekken 7 (Cross promotion of FF15)

Behemoth Monster Hunter World (Cross Promotion of FF14 Heavensward)

2B Soul Calibur 6 (Cross promotion of Nier Automota)

First let’s look what these have in common, no leaker as far I’m aware of sucessfully leaked that any of these were coming, they were all surprises. In the case with Cloud he was predicted by someone, not leaked. So this proves despite crossing over with different companies, Square is still very strict about leaks not getting out.

Next point the majority of these cross promotions are globally popular characters, and they are able to cross promote. They are also safe characters in that Square is not choosing characters that are not relevant. Also these characters are helping Square make the most income from cross promotion both long term and short term. It should be noted the reason the majority are FF picks is because FF is Square’s biggest and most profitable franchise. It makes sense they want to push for this as people from other games may be drawn to the FF franchise. Also if you notice once again all FF picks are globally popular and are safe picks in that they are still relevant.

Let’s look at 2B, she is owned by Platinum games and published by Square. This means in Soul Calibur 6, three companies shared profits Bandai Namco, Platinum Games & Square Enix. This means Square is willing to share profits with another company if that means they have a higher chance of cross promotion and income.

Finally all these characters come with a maximum of two-three pieces of music. Or in the case of Ardyn & Bahamut zero pieces of music.


In my opinion the real contenders for the Square pick are Geno & Sora.

Sora because he would make all three companies the most amount of income. His game would already be out when the DLC is released. Keep in mind the whole he’s not on the Nintendo Switch argument has been thrown out the window with the announcement of Joker. There are rumors Persona 5 is coming to the Nintendo Switch. They could do the same thing with Sora and announce a KH bundle coming to the Nintendo Switch, or sell them separately. Also Yoko Shimomura the KH composer is already on board in Smash as she remade Vega’s theme.

Geno, is not out of the running in my opinion. It should be noted that in leaks both of these characters were targeted. Which seems suspicious, given their high popularity. Geno brings a unknown/ wild card factor in this. He is the character that is unpredictable as he could make it in on nostalgia. He would be going against all Square business decision patterns, but they could choose him as a sign of good faith towards fans, Disney has proven many times that nostalgia sells, and if he has a secret remake of SMRPG in development it would really lean in his favor. Yoko Shimomura is also the SMRPG composer, so she could also be used here.


I could potentially see Neku or Erdrick. These seem less likely though. Neku whike globally popular and easy to get due to no other party. Might be too safe of a pick, and may not help them receive as much income as they could have with a more daring pick.

Erdrick has the whole DQ mess going on. To start DQ is not as popular in the West with 75% of DQ11 sales being made in the East. Then you Sugiyama and the whole mess that surrounds DQ music as he owns the music. Finally you don’t have three companies to deal with, but four in this case(including Nintendo) plus you have Sugiyama. That’s a lot of people to deal with. It’s possible both Nintendo & Square will choose them though. As despite a gamble, it could make DQ popular in the West, like how Smash helped Fire Emblem.

 

[timbo8]

Like I said before if sora or Geno you should be fine with music

 

[Nekoo]

First let’s look what these have in common, no leaker as far I’m aware of sucessfully leaked that any of these were coming, they were all surprises. In the case with Cloud he was predicted by someone, not leaked. So this proves despite crossing over with different companies, Square is still very strict about leaks not getting out.

You're right into everything, except this. Tansut is legit. He's been verified later on ResetEra, he do have a connection to Square-Enix.

 

[xenother]

And you still honestly believe it would be one of the 5 remaining characters of that DM?

While I've heard other names that were not on the leaked list, I am confident that it is someone off of the list, yeah

 

[A.G.L.]

You're right into everything, except this. Tansut is legit. He's been verified later on ResetEra, he do have a connection to Square-Enix.

If it’s the same leak beans showed me he predicted Cloud not leaked him. He said and I quote “Since this thread is going insanely fast, I might as well make a fun prediction.

To coincide with the December launch of Episode VII, the beloved blonde protagonist Luke Skywalker will be revealed, along with a Bespin stage.

Or something along those lines.”

It should be noted he said “ I might as well make a fun prediction”.

Due to the very vagueness of what he is saying, it seems more like a prediction than a leak. I’m not saying he does not have Square sources, I’m just saying he more predicted Cloud than leaked him. And his prediction could have been on an estimated guess, kind of like what iv been doing by looking at the business patterns.

 

[Nekoo]

While I've heard other names that were not on the leaked list, I am confident that it is someone off of the list, yeah

>There's more names

T H E W I L D R I D E N E V E R S T O P

 

[xenother]

>There's more names

T H E W I L D R I D E N E V E R S T O P

lmfao. These are names I heard a whiiile ago and afaik they're not happening.

 

[Nekoo]

lmfao. These are names I heard a whiiile ago and afaik they're not happening.

Oh- Good pfeeew, I was scared we would get just every Square protag + Geno on that list lmao.

Well, guess we will just have to wait and see-

 

[MajoraMan28]

lmfao. These are names I heard a whiiile ago and afaik they're not happening.

I'm not questioning your legitimacy, but how are you sure other names are not going to be the chosen one?

 

[xenother]

I'm not questioning your legitimacy, but how are you sure other names are not going to be the chosen one?

Well I suppose I'm not 100% sure, but there are things pointing to other characters that are on the list. So rather than them being deconfirmed, they're just unlikely.

 

[Deleted member]

If it's not Geno nor Sora, then it's DQ.
But if all the insiders are somehow wrong about this, then it's definitely Sora imo

xenother
Can you explain exactly why Sora is so agreed to not be in?

 

[xenother]

If it's not Geno nor Sora, then it's DQ.
But if all the insiders are somehow wrong about this, then it's definitely Sora imo

xenother
Can you explain exactly why Sora is so agreed to not be in?

Unfortunately I have to give you the canned response that I've been giving everyone. There are circumstances (that I was explicitly told not to share) that prevent Sora from being seriously considered.

 

[Nekoo]

Unfortunately I have to give you the canned response that I've been giving everyone. There are circumstances (that I was explicitly told not to share) that prevent Sora from being seriously considered.

Lemme guess. It's Disney?

 

[Icewolff92]

I say Sephiroth because he is one of the most well known Square characters that is arguably the easiest one outside of Geno, who unfortunately is a spirit( sorry, but my gut feeling is telling me that spirits do deconfirm even though I hope I'm wrong) Yes, Disney of Japan has said that they are okay with him getting in... but that doesn't mean Disney of America is.

The wild card, I would argue is someone like 2B. Yes I know that she is not on the list, but that doesn't mean she couldn't be in

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I think the whole narrative of "Square shut down a character and their creator got surprised" is true and totally about Sora. It makes sense that Square wouldn't want to deal with Disney at all because, even if they agreed to it, the profits on their part wouldn't be big enough to justify him.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I really don't think Slime will be the one.
I'm feeling very confident it's one of three characters: Erdrick, Sephiroth, Crono.
Crono would be the way out there character, imo. So, he may be the character in the end. XD

Well I suppose I'm not 100% sure, but there are things pointing to other characters that are on the list. So rather than them being deconfirmed, they're just unlikely.

So the only deconfirms are Geno and Sora from your end? Or are they simply in the unlikely category?
Given that other characters are unlikely and such, I'm just wondering how we can believe that characters that are heard more are more likely given how it seems Nintendo has played leakers with the Joker reveal
One more thing. You said Geno was on the same level as Sora. What gives this info other than people who seem to be just other leakers saying "don't take it seriously"?

 

[A.G.L.]

Yeah, I think the whole narrative of "Square shut down a character and their creator got surprised" is true and totally about Sora. It makes sense that Square wouldn't want to deal with Disney at all because, even if they agreed to it, the profits on their part wouldn't be big enough to justify him.

Except Square already did a three way partnership with 2B, and had to split profits with Bandai Namco & Platinum Games.

Also there is no guarantee Disney would not share profits with Square on Amiibo sales. Square Enix online store sells KH merchandise. So its likely Square does make some profit from KH merchandise. Especially since Disney dissolved Disney Interactive Studios in 2016 that was in charge of KH1 & KH2 alongside Square Enix. After this Disney decided to not do 1st party games and focus on strengthening all 3rd party games and studios. This included Square, so even more reason that Square is likely receiving profit from KH merchandise. As Disney right now has no interest in their own game studio, they are really relying on 3rd party studios. And they want to keep those Game companies who are making games for them happy. Which would be likely they will let said Game studios make profit from merchandise sold, even if its not as much as Disney would make.

I say Sephiroth because he is one of the most well known Square characters that is arguably the easiest one outside of Geno, who unfortunately is a spirit( sorry, but my gut feeling is telling me that spirits do deconfirm even though I hope I'm wrong) Yes, Disney of Japan has said that they are okay with him getting in... but that doesn't mean Disney of America is.


Its unlikely the Vice president of Disney Japan would make that big of a statement, unless he knew all of Disney would be ok with it. Keep in mind he is not a lower position employee, he is in charge of helping run all of Disney Japan and frequently deals with the rest of Disney and Bob Iger (CEO). So he more than anyone would know if Disney could or could not.


And

Keep in mind Disney is not as hard to negotiate with as everyone makes it sound.

Let’s look at their past

Disney allowed Ralph who is a bigger name to
Disney than Sora, in Sonic & All Stars racing.

Disney allowed Thanos to be in Fortnite

Disney has allowed Ralph to have small cameos in Fortnite, and there’s rumors he might be playable.

Disney allowed Armor King in Tekken 7 to have a Black Panther costume.

Disney allowed Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 to be a Nintendo Switch exclusive.

So dealing with Disney is not as hard as everyone makes it seem, they can be generous in their deals as well. In fact I would say Disney is nowhere as stingy in their deals as Square is. Now if we have Bob Iger(Disney CEO) coming to the table with Shuntaro Furukawa (Nintendo CEO) and Yosuke Matsuda (Square Enix CEO). Alongside Sakurai and Nomura, I’m sure they could work out a deal. Bob Iger has proven many times he can close deals. He was in charge of the following acquisitions Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Fox. He was also in charge of securing partnerships with Sony alongside Kevin Feige to get Spiderman in the MCU. So I would not underestimate Disney when it comes to negotiating, they have proven to be persuasive. And they have also proven they can be reasonable and be willing to cooperate.

Edit: Also consider how many gaming companies Disney had to make deals with in Wreck it Ralph1.

The list is the following:

Activision Blizzard
Atari
Bandai Namco
Capcom
Gottlieb
Konami
Netherealm
Nintendo
Sega
Square Enix

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Except Square already did a three way partnership with 2B, and had to split profits with Bandai Namco & Platinum Games.

Also there is no guarantee Disney would not share profits with Square on Amiibo sales. Square Enix online store sells KH merchandise. So its likely Square does make some profit from KH merchandise. Especially since Disney dissolved Disney Interactive Studios in 2016 that was in charge of KH1 & KH2 alongside Square Enix. After this Disney decided to not do 1st party games and focus on strengthening all 3rd party games and studios. This included Square, so even more reason that Square is likely receiving profit from KH merchandise. As Disney right now has no interest in their own game studio, they are really relying on 3rd party studios. And they want to keep those Game companies who are making games for them happy. Which would be likely they will let said Game studios make profit from merchandise sold, even if its not as much as Disney would make.

Just a note, but the Tekken 7 Black Panther skin for Armor King is not an official promotion. It's more a nod or homage to the character.

 

[A.G.L.]

Just a note, but the Tekken 7 Black Panther skin for Armor King is not an official promotion. It's more a nod or homage to the character.

I agree, but its likely Bandai Namco still had to get permission from Disney to use Black Panther's likeness as a costume. And it would make sense Disney would give them something small, since Bandai Namco characters were in Ralph Breaks the Internet.

 

[timbo8]

so what on now A.G.L

 

[A.G.L.]

so what on now A.G.L

Not sure I understood your question my friend, can you explain to me what you are asking?

 

[timbo8]

Not sure I understood your question my friend, can you explain to me what you are asking?

sorry i mean what are you guys talking about now?

 

[Icewolff92]

Except Square already did a three way partnership with 2B, and had to split profits with Bandai Namco & Platinum Games.

Also there is no guarantee Disney would not share profits with Square on Amiibo sales. Square Enix online store sells KH merchandise. So its likely Square does make some profit from KH merchandise. Especially since Disney dissolved Disney Interactive Studios in 2016 that was in charge of KH1 & KH2 alongside Square Enix. After this Disney decided to not do 1st party games and focus on strengthening all 3rd party games and studios. This included Square, so even more reason that Square is likely receiving profit from KH merchandise. As Disney right now has no interest in their own game studio, they are really relying on 3rd party studios. And they want to keep those Game companies who are making games for them happy. Which would be likely they will let said Game studios make profit from merchandise sold, even if its not as much as Disney would make.

While I get what you mean, we don't know the full scenario of it. And considering that Disney is said to be hard to work with, I'm still skeptical. If Universal wasn't working with Nintendo right now, then maybe I could see something along the lines of "if we get rights to make Super Mario movies, you get access to Sora (sort of like how Sega got Wreck-It Ralph for Sega All Star racing and Disney got access to Sonic and Eggman for the movie.

 

[A.G.L.]

sorry i mean what are you guys talking about now?

Ah the same we have been talking about for awhile now. Which is

Who would the 2nd Square Enix character

Are leakers and Insiders wrong about Square characters, or are they correct

DQ vs Geno vs Sephiroth vs Sora, as those are most names being spoken of at the moment.

Thats basically the the rundown of what has been discussed.