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Spirited Away - Game Thread - Game Over!

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Zoroarkrules571
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Roles were assigned randomly. They are all NAI. Also, my understanding is that Fate can prove his role right now if he wants to.

Swiss claimed he could reset the votals, but only early in the day.
That’s a bit of a convenient power. As early day one there isn’t going be many early votes in a shorter setup.

Granted like Fate, if these claims are true both could have been proven but have not. If Swiss wanted a town clear I don’t see why they wouldn’t just reset the first vote and prove themselves.
I’ll prove ability tomorrow if you want sure.

Z25. You don’t have to scumread someone to vote them. Look at my last reads list before the Bessie vote.

Yes I can say I’m slippery and mercurials I do it every game

Me at bottom of reads list in red I do every game

Look. Youre town, I appreciate the paranoia - stop with these silly shenanigans. Go and read newbied3 or the other recent games here
True you don’t have to scum read someone, but there should be a train of thought that is followed with each vote. I haven’t gotten that with your last few votes. It was switching, without their being any buildup to force that switch naturally.

Also if you can reset your votes and wanted to prove your role, why not just do it at the start?
 

Z25

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Oh wow I'm actually close to being yeeted D1. Where's Gorf when you need him.
This post will be my last real activity pre deadline will try to make it a good'un. I will make sure I log in at some point for a hammer but wont be in depth.

Happy with a Fate yeet, voting Somi to avoid quick hammers but I'll swap when/if needed.

FF we're having a stern conversation tomorrow.

##unvote
##Somitomi
I’ll

##unvote

So there is no hammer out of nowhere and because I would like your answer to my last question.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
sorry if i dont have townreads on people i never played it
i dont get why this is so hard to understand not voting for = people i dont find sus not that i feel they are town
opinons change over time and right now i dont feel like the people like dark, laser and z25 are where im going to vote
I don't think you need to know people to read them either way, so it's still valid to ask if you have townreads.
And I actually don't really get why you insist on this distinction between people who aren't suspicious (to the point that you're unwilling to vote for them) and townreads. What is a townread then, especially on D1? I also get that reads and opinions change, but normally there would be some kind of correlation between the early list and the extended widescreen version (posted less than a day after) and I don't see that here. To me, your summary of Sabrar and LaserGuy seem similar (in terms of positive and negative points) and yet LaserGuy is on the not-vote list and Sabrar isn't.
Out of curiosity, what makes you consider yourself "low hanging fruit"?

PS: I am midly concerned by how readily LaserGuy jumped on this wagon based on what he embellishingly called "my case".
 

Xivii

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Vote Count [B1-7]

FateShirou | 3/5 | LaserGuy, somitomi, Sabrar
Swiss | 2/5 | FrozenFlame, FateShirou
somitomi | 2/5 | Swiss, bessie

Not Voting: Z25, Darkpit


sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi
---------------1
som, unv
fro, swi
---------------2
swi, las - already voting
shi, swi
---------------3
las, bes
swi, bes
---------------4
las, shi
---------------5
bes, somi
las, bes
---------------6
sab, unv
sab, shi
somi, shi
z25, swi
las, shi
swi, somi
z25, unv
---------------7

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Friday, the 21st at 11:59 pm MT.
 

Sabrar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
931
Unless it's both of them with LaserGuy as the third. Then the whole thing is just scum-theater.
 

Swiss

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Oct 27, 2008
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Don't get mad - get Swiss
Yeah but someone like Somi won’t do that.

I did consider how scum would interact and sure it’ll be a bit different - but people don’t change and I keep forgetting this game has different mechanics so I’m sure other people do.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
Out of curiosity, what makes you consider yourself "low hanging fruit"?
because im new here? having a hard time getting reads, messed up a few pages ago when i swapped people around LOL
sabrar/lasguy is weird, i dont want to get pocked and town read them both, but they have been active and pushing i just feel the whole situation with bessie to be strange, add that i have a hard time telling them apart
they both do seem to like voting for them and then unvoting
nice of laserguy to vote for me once as a gut read and then again because they like ur takedown of me

Sorry, that should be FateShirou FateShirou apparently.
Gave a cookie to somitomi

Okie dokie. Pouring myself a nice stiff drink.

Someone vote count on the fly for me?
 

Z25

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Because it's NOT a town-clear. Roles are random and independent of alignment. Please stop focusing on abilities, it's not productive.
This is true, however, was it no established that Swiss had not read or understood the rules when they said we should mass claim super early?

If true, that means they were not under the impression that the abilities meant nothing. Instead my original point would stand. They would think their claim and ability would be a clear for them. So why not do it?
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
You could just say you're suspicious of me in thread though, so this basically achieved nothing. And if you're sanctioned, your power is useless this way, mafia will just not accept the cookie if it means suspicion. I think Darkpit already explained this, so why are you stubbornly going with it, especially in a situation where it's actually not necessary?
Remove my not scum together comment
Damn, if Fate flips demon and I go down because of it, I will scream so loud...
 

FateShirou

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May 15, 2021
Messages
128
You could just say you're suspicious of me in thread though, so this basically achieved nothing. And if you're sanctioned, your power is useless this way, mafia will just not accept the cookie if it means suspicion. I think Darkpit already explained this, so why are you stubbornly going with it, especially in a situation where it's actually not necessary?
i think you are a bit too worried about a cookie LOL
my power is useless, i consider myself a vanilla town

how many of your posts are you going to dedicate to specing about me som
 

Darkpit54

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Z, roles were assigned separate from alignment, and proving that your claim is legit doesn't really do much for proving alignment.

Probably won't be back before eod, sorry I couldn't contribute more today. I'll be placing my vote on Fate, as that's the current wagon I'd be most comfortable with. Hopefully I'll be able to be back an hour or two before deadline, but I can't promise. If not, I'll at least try to reread before tomorrow. Really sorry bros. Hopefully this'll at least give us more to go off even if we're wrong

##FateShirou
 

Sabrar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
931
##Unvote

Just to prevent accidental hammer, consider me on the wagon.
 

Xivii

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Vote Count [B1-8]

FateShirou | 2/5 | Darkpit, somitomi*
Swiss | 2/5 | FrozenFlame, FateShirou
somitomi* | 2/5 | Swiss, bessie

Not Voting: Z25, LaserGuy, Sabrar


sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi
---------------1
som, unv
fro, swi
---------------2
swi, las - already voting
shi, swi
---------------3
las, bes
swi, bes
---------------4
las, shi
---------------5
bes, somi
las, bes
---------------6
sab, unv
sab, shi
somi, shi
z25, swi
las, shi
swi, somi
z25, unv
---------------7
pit, shi
sab, unv
las, unvo
---------------8

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Friday, the 21st at 11:59 pm MT.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
you guys are such teases if ya wanna vote for me go ahead
just stop with this vote for FS, and then unvote, then vote and then unvote....zzzzz

##somitomi

kinda weird how there isnt a resistance to my wagon, people been voting on and off me for a day now?

##Unvote

Just to prevent accidental hammer, consider me on the wagon.
##Unvote

Not interested in seeing a hammer vote right now.
are you just going to sit around for EOD before hamming me now or what?


I want you guys to remember this
when i flip town, that dosnt clear somitomi, they could still be scum
what have they done besides go after me during this phrase
 

LaserGuy

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you guys are such teases if ya wanna vote for me go ahead
just stop with this vote for FS, and then unvote, then vote and then unvote....zzzzz
Welcome to the wonderful world of EoD yeet scrambles. That said, Fate's tone is not reading as scum to me.

##bessie
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
Do you think somi is scum? Do you think Swiss is? I am still trying to make any sense at all out of your positions on people.
you have to look at it towards a mindset of someone who isnt familar with this forum and having a hard time adapting
tools that i took from granted just arnt here, its awful trying to do an ISO, my browser lags so much when i try to scroll through pages and having to manual count votes suck LOL, yea i know im just ******** :(

do i think somi is scum?
yes they could be scum
are they scumhunting? are they pressuring other players? those are questions you can ask yourself, are they contributing original ideas?
to me, they havnt, they seem to latch onto me and are determined to get me voted out, im at a lost at what their next plan would be

Do you think swiss is solving? I had my vote on swiss for a long time, now they are starting to feel the pressure, i would like to hear what they say to my questions to them about what occurs when i flip town and what heppans if they decide to flip somi
 

Xivii

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Vote Count [B1-9]

somitomi* | 3/5 | FateShirou, Swiss, bessie
FateShirou | 2/5 | Darkpit, somitomi*
Swiss | 1/5 | FrozenFlame
bessie | 1/5 | LaserGuy

Not Voting: Z25, Sabrar


sab, sab
las, sab
sab, unv
sab, las
mav, las - invalid
swiss, las
som, shi
---------------1
som, unv
fro, swi
---------------2
swi, las - already voting
shi, swi
---------------3
las, bes
swi, bes
---------------4
las, shi
---------------5
bes, som
las, bes
---------------6
sab, unv
sab, shi
somi, shi
z25, swi
las, shi
swi, som
z25, unv
---------------7
pit, shi
sab, unv
las, unvo
---------------8
shi, som
las, bes
---------------9

With 9 players in Limbo, it takes 5 to banish.
The deadline for Banish 1 is Friday, the 21st at 11:59 pm MT.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
I'm not determined to get you voted out, I was trying to understand where the apparent inconsistency in your reads came from.
##Unvote
mainly because I share your concern over the little resistance to this wagon.
See this bottom bit is exactly - almost verbatim - what Id do if my buddy was on my case
Ok, but would you (as scum) select a buddy as the one person you're gonna tunnel that day?
are you just going to sit around for EOD before hamming me now or what?
That's generally the way it's done around here, yes.
 

LaserGuy

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Messages
633
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In Quarantine
do i think somi is scum?
yes they could be scum
are they scumhunting? are they pressuring other players? those are questions you can ask yourself, are they contributing original ideas?
to me, they havnt, they seem to latch onto me and are determined to get me voted out, im at a lost at what their next plan would be
Do you think swiss is solving? I had my vote on swiss for a long time, now they are starting to feel the pressure, i would like to hear what they say to my questions to them about what occurs when i flip town and what heppans if they decide to flip somi
[/QUOTE]

I'm reasonably convinced both Swiss and somi are Town. Are they solving? I mean, honestly, somi's push on you is one of the stronger pushes I've seen him make this early in the game in a long time. He's not a particularly aggressive player in general. I don't feel like this D1 is particularly outside Swiss' normal range. He usually gets better as the game goes on. He's more likely scum than somi is, I suppose, but I honestly don't care much for either wagon, hence my returning to bessie.
 

Z25

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Z25 Z25 why did I think my claim was a clear? You thought I thought I could town clear d1 and didn’t?

@fs nai subject to reread overnight
When you say I do you mean you or do you mean me?

Anyway:
Z, roles were assigned separate from alignment, and proving that your claim is legit doesn't really do much for proving alignment.

Probably won't be back before eod, sorry I couldn't contribute more today. I'll be placing my vote on Fate, as that's the current wagon I'd be most comfortable with. Hopefully I'll be able to be back an hour or two before deadline, but I can't promise. If not, I'll at least try to reread before tomorrow. Really sorry bros. Hopefully this'll at least give us more to go off even if we're wrong

##FateShirou
My point was that Swiss, when they asked for a mass claim they didn’t know the fact of the setup being random to my understanding. That means that they asked for a mass claim out of nowhere day one thinking it was a normal game, refused to try and prove themselves if they were town. As they should think of claiming in this scenario Since it makes sense to help their story. Which is why random roles or not I don’t get their reasoning here. My other problem is still in the random voting and switching when they had the votee push back and their wasn’t much of a natural progression with these votes. Which I find more problematic than anything else.

Ive just been stating my thoughts and perspective. I could definitely be over thinking it but my thoughts on thepower roles are way less of the treason I suspect Swiss of being scum.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
Oh, crums.

##Swiss
This time I'm sheeping someone else's case, but while rereading I was also pinged by him randomly testing the water with random wagon suggestions (me, FateShirou). It's a weak read, but I feel particularly lost. In all likelihood, I won't be back before deadline, so good luck everyone.
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
Daily catch up.

My ability also only targets a specific alignment, fwiw.
Ok, interesting.


It came across as very natural. I don't really have an interest in attempting to verify that he has notes; that isn't really important to my assessment. I just don't feel this is the type of thing someone would bother including in their read unless they were actually doing it.
You’re missing my point, which is that you’re giving town points to someone for a remark that is very easy to fake because it can’t be verified. Your reason feels forced to me.


I can think of one or two examples from xkcd off the top of my head (Xivii, Stellaris, Town, for example; I feel like there was at least one Peaceful Whale game, possibly X-Men, Town, and maybe Crossover, Town as well). My memory is otherwise not as encyclopedic about those sort of details as I would like but I'm sure I could dredge up some more examples if my point isn't clear enough. I do not recall any instance in any game I have ever played of scum spontaneously claiming early in the game unless it was to save themselves from being yeeted. So... yes, I think Darkpit is likely Town due to his position in the claim order alone, and I believe that people farther down the claim order have a higher probability of being mafia.
I want to say Peaceful Whale claimed as town in Crossover and as mafia in another game I can’t remember but I think it was Refrigerator mafia, which is a game I haven’t started working on yet. My encyclopedic mafia memory is faltering after a year and a half (I have discussed this somewhere on this site recently) but I will think about it, I just don’t want to use the hours before deadline searching old games. So for right now I will concede that you currently have more supporting data than I do.


You could just look at my answer to Sabrar then.
I did that’s why I noted that Sabrar asked the same question.


I do feel that I am able to identify content that is fluff, yes. I know what scum hunting looks like.
And that you are being subjectively selective in your groupings.


I would rather just have you producing good content so I can evaluate you properly. There is no benefit to being cagey in a setup like this and every benefit in being as obvTown as possible, and I would expect that both you and Sabrar would have come to that realization on your own. You are misevaluating things that are transparently townie, likely because your point of view is not that of Town.
I’ve presented my analysis, and a summary of my analysis because you didn’t comprehend the original, and like I pointed out before, I feel you are downplaying my content because you don’t like where my analysis is leading me.


I am noting this for now and may go through it in detail later.
Interesting you scum read me for content that you don’t want to take the time to read carefully.


It's not specifically that she is not stating her reads. It's that she is not doing things to actively develop them. Her play is passive, uninspired. She isn't digging into people.
This from the person that had blocked my attempts to question somitomi. You mean I’m digging into people you don’t want me looking at.


Yeah, the role PM says "player of opposing alignment" but in paraphrasing the role I used the appropriate alignment instead, sue me. I also didn't mention that if I remove a spirit, they can't vote in Judgement Day, because it's irrelevant. I knew full well that roles are not tied to alignment [#23], so coming up with a "townie power" makes little sense here. And at the risk of opening a bottle of wine, do I strike you as the scum player who proactively claims a made-up power before there's even consensus about a mass claim?
So, you are confirming I am correct in that you were not completely accurate in your role claim? I need to think about your revised claim.
Your question refers to what I have been pondering. I tried to question you on this earlier, when LaserGuy answered my question to you and attempted to justify why it wasn’t necessary for you to answer my question yourself.


yes, thank you very much for telling us a dog picture was fluff
Hey, not every dog picture is fluff! Fluffy maybe, but not necessarily fluff. I sometimes like to use the dog pics to denote agreement or skepticism and I thought it was obvious when I did this but maybe not.


and something about a taxi driver dosnt sit right with me which i already commented on
You keep bringing up that you are suspicious of FrozenFlame because of his role, and it has been pointed out many times that roles are NAI. I have already said that I am suspicious of you for this reason.


Also since I forgot to yesterday, I’m able to see who used an action on another player. Which has me curious as to how this works in a game with no night kill.
Interesting your perspective on this. There are other targeted actions in this game that aren't kills. I’ve already used one.


Can you honestly tell me you believe that this case comes from Town!bessie?
Can you honestly tell me that you think nitpicky focus is out of the range of someone that has been known to tunnel people based on their confirmation posts??


This is why I say we wait to vote fate. If they prove their role and their target has that Asterik we know they aren’t lying about their cookie role.

That doesn’t mean they can’t be scum, but I see no point in scum having this as a role. It be disrupting the balance if scum got a role that in most games would auto confirm them as town and get no questions asked.
Roles are NAI. Roles were determined, then alignments were randomly assigned to roles, like I keep reminding FateShirou. It’s in the OP and has been much discussed in thread.


That’s a bit of a convenient power. As early day one there isn’t going be many early votes in a shorter setup.

Granted like Fate, if these claims are true both could have been proven but have not. If Swiss wanted a town clear I don’t see why they wouldn’t just reset the first vote and prove themselves.
How would Swiss using his power clear him as town? He can reset the vote in the first half of the day it’s a power that does nothing substantial because we have two and a half days to revote.

I believe the intent of most (if not all) of the powers is that they don’t have a lot of effect on the game like FateShirou’s, putting an asterisk next to somitomi’s name doesn’t affect his vote in any way. And the powers that do something like the bus driver just swap vanillaish powers to other players. All powers are NAI.


This is true, however, was it no established that Swiss had not read or understood the rules when they said we should mass claim super early?

If true, that means they were not under the impression that the abilities meant nothing. Instead my original point would stand. They would think their claim and ability would be a clear for them. So why not do it?
Ok but powers are NAI so I still don’t see what you think using a power would clear.


Back in a bit.
 

Z25

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been out the past few hours, but I’m back now.

Daily catch up.

Ok, interesting.


You’re missing my point, which is that you’re giving town points to someone for a remark that is very easy to fake because it can’t be verified. Your reason feels forced to me.


I want to say Peaceful Whale claimed as town in Crossover and as mafia in another game I can’t remember but I think it was Refrigerator mafia, which is a game I haven’t started working on yet. My encyclopedic mafia memory is faltering after a year and a half (I have discussed this somewhere on this site recently) but I will think about it, I just don’t want to use the hours before deadline searching old games. So for right now I will concede that you currently have more supporting data than I do.


I did that’s why I noted that Sabrar asked the same question.


And that you are being subjectively selective in your groupings.


I’ve presented my analysis, and a summary of my analysis because you didn’t comprehend the original, and like I pointed out before, I feel you are downplaying my content because you don’t like where my analysis is leading me.


Interesting you scum read me for content that you don’t want to take the time to read carefully.


This from the person that had blocked my attempts to question somitomi. You mean I’m digging into people you don’t want me looking at.


So, you are confirming I am correct in that you were not completely accurate in your role claim? I need to think about your revised claim.
Your question refers to what I have been pondering. I tried to question you on this earlier, when LaserGuy answered my question to you and attempted to justify why it wasn’t necessary for you to answer my question yourself.


Hey, not every dog picture is fluff! Fluffy maybe, but not necessarily fluff. I sometimes like to use the dog pics to denote agreement or skepticism and I thought it was obvious when I did this but maybe not.


You keep bringing up that you are suspicious of FrozenFlame because of his role, and it has been pointed out many times that roles are NAI. I have already said that I am suspicious of you for this reason.


Interesting your perspective on this. There are other targeted actions in this game that aren't kills. I’ve already used one.


Can you honestly tell me that you think nitpicky focus is out of the range of someone that has been known to tunnel people based on their confirmation posts??


Roles are NAI. Roles were determined, then alignments were randomly assigned to roles, like I keep reminding FateShirou. It’s in the OP and has been much discussed in thread.


How would Swiss using his power clear him as town? He can reset the vote in the first half of the day it’s a power that does nothing substantial because we have two and a half days to revote.

I believe the intent of most (if not all) of the powers is that they don’t have a lot of effect on the game like FateShirou’s, putting an asterisk next to somitomi’s name doesn’t affect his vote in any way. And the powers that do something like the bus driver just swap vanillaish powers to other players. All powers are NAI.


Ok but powers are NAI so I still don’t see what you think using a power would clear.


Back in a bit.
In terms of me talking my ability, I meant it more as I don’t see too much use for it in a kill without night kill, because anyone could in theory have an action that affects another player. And with no night kill, I couldn’t use my ability to really prove scum one way or another like a normal game. Seeing that people have an action is ultimately pointless imo because the action a person has could be anything, which in turn would not prove or disprove something one way or another.

My point about the powers isn’t that I would clear anyone for just having or even using a power, but that Swiss originally was under the impression powers did not work like this it seems. Which means their way of thinking should have been that by demonstrating their ability if they had it, they could look better.

Given the whole discussion about the confusion over rules they were in, it’s possible imo a teamate cleared that situation up behind the scenes.

That’s mostly speculation. Like I said earlier, their vote usage does t add up imo.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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You may be right with your soul-read but I think you are grossly misrepresenting bessie's content either because you're tunneling or deliberately.
this post of sab chainsawing bessie and going hard at laser confirms sab and laser aren't mates, can't see this as theatre, it feels personal-ish


honestly we are too lex right now and its because scum isnt on the cutting board
at the time of this post wasnt swiss the leading wagon and you were voting him with me? what are you saying here then? very confused

100% gut read.

##Fate
weird for you to vote like this and then

I actually really like somi's case on him as well. I'll bite.

##Fate
this doesnt feel like a genuine town reaction to having his alleged "gut read" validated at all

FF we're having a stern conversation tomorrow.
the **** does this mean? about what? how you're trying to gas me up and it's not paying dividends for you? see below

FrozenFlame
Town 'Leader' at least in his eyes. Like the mayor of the village. Town
hate you and laser so hard townreading me I feel like Im in a ****ing blizzard


Sabrar Sabrar whats your take on swiss/laser mates?

I feel like both of them are like trying to avoid antagonizing me because they know they cant NK me if I get thorny, and I'm trusting your read of laser over mine. dude's tone is so insanely consistent so I can only ready him based on his moves and I do not like his moves this game

##Laserguy
 
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