SOVA, ITS 2010! Step ya Melee game up baby! <3

[Wretched]

I never looked at your avatar closely before
OH GOD I HAVE ACP ON MY HARDDRIVE NOW

 

[Pitzer]

Thats why people Drill shine Sheik.

 

[Linkownz]

Wretched, waveshining is hardly useful lol.
but yes it is possible by running after your wavedash.

But yeah spacies have a slight adv. in that matchup (SLIGHT)
and amsah proves me further to deny that fox is such a big deal vs sheik. sufficient knowledge is all you need. no advanced techs.... no difficult tech chasing... no difficult edgeguarding (75% of options are covered with one move).
All you need with sheik is knowledge. Cause everything else, sheik does for you. Easyyyyy shiiit.
Though sheik usually isn't safe in most situations.... but fox isn't exactly safe either -.-

 

[rhan]

How can you say that when waveshine -> upsmash has a high chance of connecting every single time? How is that not useful?

 

[Wretched]

Well, on some characters you can waveshine them to the edge and easily get a shinespike if you time it well enough. That's why I was questioning whether you can framelock Sheik with successive waveshines
Drill->Shine->WD->Shine->WD->Shine-> shinespike works every time if you do it right. Try it on Link, DK, Ganon, etc. It's very effective.

 

[rhan]

They all get waveshined to death because of their weight. Sheik isn't heavy so she can't be killed in such a way. But that's why shine -> wavedash -> up smash works better then actually waveshining her. Plus that leads into better KO potential since she is a light character.

 

[Wretched]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I was just wondering if she could be waveshined successively. But I guess that means my question is answered.

 

[Ether]

Screw that, Wretched's right. You can waveshine Sheik across FD into dsmash at edge into edgeguard. If Sheik DI's away, she might escape.

 

[rhan]

Could have sworn that Sheik only gets waveshined if they CC or if their DI is terrible. And also that the weight also mattered in that aspect.

 

[Ether]

Drillshine is guaranteed at least. And so is waveshine with no DI.

 

[rhan]

Drillshine is guaranteed on anyone.

Also I just assumed that we were talking on a higher end level... So.. wouldn't that include the aspect of DI?

 

[Ether]

This can only be settled one way.

Shine->WD->run->repeat should work.

 

[Wretched]

With a nearly frame perfect wavedash, it seems legitimate.
I mean, Luigi, with perfect DI, the character with the most traction, can be shined 2-3 times in a row with a perfectly timed shine wavedash. It was on perfect control, and SDM DI'd with Weegee, I believe.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Wretched, waveshining is hardly useful lol.
but yes it is possible by running after your wavedash.

waveshining is great for positioning. u can turn a shine from the middle of the stage into an edgeguard opportunity by waveshining to the edge, and fox's edgegaurding is arguably the best in the game vs sheik. it utterly destroys her. apart from that, waveshining is great for sealing the deal when she is at kill percent. not that great for tacking on damage given that up smash and grab lead into more meaty damage dealing combos

But yeah spacies have a slight adv. in that matchup (SLIGHT)
and amsah proves me further to deny that fox is such a big deal vs sheik.

yeah i kinda have to agree here. though ive always advocated that falco beats sheik solidly, since pound 4 ive considered it a closer matchup and since ive talked to pp about it and listened to his opinions on it (as well as watched countless videos of amsah and m2k), i think its pretty even. however, i will say that i dont see how amsah's performance alone proves that the mu is even. the only noteable falco that he beats frequently is remen, and didnt u take a match off of him? *shrugs* He got pretty destroyed at p5 iirc

sufficient knowledge is all you need. no advanced techs.... no difficult tech chasing... no difficult edgeguarding (75% of options are covered with one move).
All you need with sheik is knowledge. Cause everything else, sheik does for you.

LOL i hear u. though i do consider this the logic of a spacie main, u have a point in that its more of a knowledge based mu than anything else, compared to, say, fox dittoes or falcon dittos where most of the mu relies on solid execution and efficient kills. however, most MUs in this game are knowledge based. i personally believe pp is the best because he combined the technical demand of falco and his knowledge/research based approach to the game into one really effective play style. IMO, his effectiveness is not solely dependent on the "difficulty" of his approach to the game, but the knowledge that it took for him to improve and create that approach to the game. that can be manifested in any character. the technical ability will follow

Easyyyyy shiiit.

its funny that the ONLY people who say stuff like this are the people who lose to sheik. sheik mains dont say this because they understand that she is not an easy character; either they have gone through the work of mastering her or they lose frequently and work hard at improving their game. Other character mains who know the sheik matchup well dont say this because they have taken the time to learn her as a character -> strengths/weaknesses/the mindset it takes to play her and take advantage of those things in order to beat her. IMO, the reason people say she is easy is because its the only explanation they can come up with for why they lose. "If she werent so easy, i would beat sheik main X because I am better than X. But given that she is easy, I have to become much better than X to compensate for her ease of use."

Ironically, what it takes in order to beat the knowledge-based character sheik is another adequate set of knowledge (i.e. T.T moar nuub u gotta learn the matchup, tough )

Though sheik usually isn't safe in most situations.... but fox isn't exactly safe either -.-

fox players just expect to be safe lol. "im nairing so im completely safe" is usually the case except for when "oh noez he somehow got lucky that i missed and now im getting topechased!!!" foxs sheer priority when approaching teaches fox mains at lower levels that stuff is safe as long as he is rushing down the opponent with super-priority moves, which u and i both know is not the case. but then when they learn that all of a sudden they cant just run in and hit someones shield safely, they think their tech skill needs to improve by leaps and bounds or that they should camp more lazers....do u see the problem with boh of these conclusions?
They both keep fox in an "A or B; black and white; right or wrong" mindset. To them, matchup knowledge tends to include more "watchout for dsmash; dont get CCed; lazer until she approaches" and less "put her into a situation where she has 1 of these specific 2 options; put her in this frame trap and note how she tends to react to this particular sitation; learn what she thinks her options are after this particular throw and take advantage of her lack of knowledge on a particular DI"
Note how in the first example, in order to achieve result Y, the player would do X, while in the second example in order to achieve result Y, the player did A, looked for D,E, or F and proceeded to punish with Q, R, or S, or even mixed it up between Q and R bcuz for whatever reason Q and R both worked in that situation

i could go on and on about my approach to smash, which people tend to like to hear, so if anyone wants to just chill and talk about smash/improvement/stuff sometime give me a shout. im not that great, but im pretty sure my insight for improvement is valuable (not something im assuming, something ive been told)

They all get waveshined to death because of their weight. Sheik isn't heavy so she can't be killed in such a way. But that's why shine -> wavedash -> up smash works better then actually waveshining her. Plus that leads into better KO potential since she is a light character.

do u mean she cant be shinespiked from a wavedash? idk, im sure she can be shined off the stage (and duh she can be shinespiked lol) but u bring up a good point

Screw that, Wretched's right. You can waveshine Sheik across FD into dsmash at edge into edgeguard. If Sheik DI's away, she might escape.

this; dsmash is really good, especially against falcon. also, emphasis on the MIGHT; like i said, fox edgeguard on sheik is godlike

Could have sworn that Sheik only gets waveshined if they CC or if their DI is terrible. And also that the weight also mattered in that aspect.

its dependent on the fox screwing up; she can certainly be waveshined perfectly with good DI. granted, the shine must have started while sheik is grounded; she cant have been off the ground at all

Drillshine is guaranteed at least. And so is waveshine with no DI.

see above; im pretty sure what i said is right, though kirbykaze may pop in and prove me wrong (!)

This can only be settled one way.

Shine->WD->run->repeat should work.

yup

 

[GHNeko]

maaan why do i post hours late in this thread

you guys need to post more so this thing stays at the top of my user cp

 

[Malco!!!]

Falco is da best no matter what!?!?111

 

[rhan]

Falco's sooooo..... fun.



Anyway.



Malco you goin to Wretchedddd's?? I got the stick if you go and we'll be able to playyy!

 

[Wretched]

Plus cupcakes

 

[Malco!!!]

I see the place.
But I don't see the time or date?

 

[rhan]

See about hosting again next Friday/Saturday Wretch. <3

 

[GHNeko]

yes please. i look forward to it. i'm glad i could come.

 

[Wretched]

Will do.
I'm only doing 2 setups unless more people come.

 

[GHNeko]

More people should come then.

 

[Two-Ell]

Apologies, ignore this

 

[GHNeko]

what are you doing in this thread 2link

 

[Two-Ell]

I wanted to ask something, but I found a better thread to do it in. Ignore that post lol.

 

[Wretched]

What question could you possibly ask that we would in any way be suited to ask more than any other group of people on these boards?

 

[Two-Ell]

I wanted to look for potential interest in a large event we had in Orlando. I got a bit confused looking through this region's boards for state Melee scene threads. I was trying to look for one for MD/VA, but I couldn't one in the atl north's social board. I settled for asking each state individually.

I saw an MD/VA Melee PR thread though so I cleared my post since I didn't want to be annoying and look like I was spamming the thread(plus I thought you guys would see it in there).

Again, apologies

I'll put the question here for you:

MD/VA Melee, how interested would you guys be in coming to CEO(http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296882) in mid June? Hbox will be hosting. It's happening in Orlando. It's also a massive event for other fighters if you're interested in others(800 in attendance for them total. It's an EVO Seeding event). 18,000 sqft venue~

We'd love to have you guys if you can make it. There's a discount at the hotel running to the end of May.

If you guys do happen to be interested please feel free to post any questions in there.

 

[GHNeko]

I would of been interested if it wasnt for Genesis 2.

 

[Wretched]

Oh, want.
Neko, how are you getting there?

 

[Two-Ell]

Yeah I'm aware of that, understandable. I was hoping them being spaced a month apart would help. Thanks for answering though.

I wanted to go to Genesis myself since a lot of FL is going, but no job right now T.T

 

[GHNeko]

Oh, want.
Neko, how are you getting there?

Flying. :3c

 

[rhan]

omg that tourney would be like the perfect last hurrah before I go to basic!

3 days before I ship.

Too bad I'm broke as helllll. lmaooo but I'll be in FL soon enough to play with all you guys.

 

[Two-Ell]

It's cool dude, I'm happy you were interested at least x3

Which part of FL are you going to?

 

[rhan]

Upper west FL. Pensacola. I'll be there for about 3 months. I'll be able to take a bus or taxi down to central FL when a tourney happens as long as I get some notice. lol

 

[Isatis]

hi guys

I'm gonna be coming down tomorrow, and gonna be swinging by Neko's to do a final project of mine for my film class (and might need volunteers if anyone wants to :x )

I heard there was a smashfest btw, could I possibly come?

 

[rhan]

I don't want to speak for Wretched. But he has had random strangers (aka smashers in the region he hasn't met before) in his house.



AKA Neko.

 

[Linkownz]

He just spoke for wretched regardless.
Anyway wretch, my chances of showing have just diminished due to my parents about to find out my physics grade tomorrow... hmm... shieeet.

 

[GHNeko]

I don't want to speak for Wretched. But he has had random strangers (aka smashers in the region he hasn't met before) in his house.



AKA Neko.

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Wretched]

Shadden
You will prioritize this fest.
Also, anyone is welcome, Bionic.